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Jag Kara
Gh0st Hunters
Sspectre
Posted - 2010.10.22 00:11:00 - [151]
 

Edited by: Jag Kara on 22/10/2010 00:13:09
Originally by: Hasnpbeard
I never actually tried it, but in EFT my common passive Tempest fit with all modules running is going from 1m17s to 1m14s (yes that's 3 seconds) if i change ammo from Faction to Hail.

So whats correct ?


My numbers are correct. Perhaps it wasn't clear how I presented the ammo percents. That 90% was the extreme case of 8 small arties packing quake s in them. 6 large autos packing hail l in them only has a reduction of 26.5% (still basically cancels a cap recharger) and assuming that passive build you have is running any shield power relays, your cap regen is already going to be pitiful as it is.

Astald Ohtar
AtlantiA French Corp
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2010.10.22 00:50:00 - [152]
 

try to fly a sansha ship and use gleam on it ! -10%shield i almost lost my phantasm once cause if it :|] , luckily the ship had only 3 turrets , and tbh all that those silly stats on t2 ammo doesn't make them competitive with faction ammo , slightly more dmg and 2-3penalities? even normal ammo would be better

Floydd Heywood
Posted - 2010.10.22 13:37:00 - [153]
 

I have a question about the upcoming Remap-for-Plex feature: What will happen to the regular, free remapping we receive once a year? I see three possible scenarios:

1. There will be no free remappings anymore, every remapping requires a PLEX.

2. Regular remappings are independent of purchased extra-remaps, so if my next regular remap is due in December and I buy a remap in November and use it, I will still have the free remap added in December.

3. Any remap resets the 'natural' counter to 12 months, so if I have a regular remap coming in December and buy and use a remap in November I would receive the next free remap not in December 2010 but in November 2011.

Which one is it?

Cheekybiatch
Posted - 2010.10.22 13:50:00 - [154]
 

So no love to Blasters or Null. Sad

Would love some attention to them if possible before the new expansion.

Hentes Zsemle
Posted - 2010.10.23 16:24:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Cheekybiatch
So no love to Blasters or Null. Sad

Would love some attention to them if possible before the new expansion.


I trained up minmatar ships and weapons, ready to start cruiser V, med projectile V as soon as the expension hits and it turns out that hybrids are not fixed or even worse than before.
I can only advise to do the same...

Mike deVoid
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2010.10.24 15:44:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Floydd Heywood
I have a question about the upcoming Remap-for-Plex feature: What will happen to the regular, free remapping we receive once a year? I see three possible scenarios:

1. There will be no free remappings anymore, every remapping requires a PLEX.

2. Regular remappings are independent of purchased extra-remaps, so if my next regular remap is due in December and I buy a remap in November and use it, I will still have the free remap added in December.

3. Any remap resets the 'natural' counter to 12 months, so if I have a regular remap coming in December and buy and use a remap in November I would receive the next free remap not in December 2010 but in November 2011.

Which one is it?


AFAIK, it's number 2.

Leelo dallasmultipas
Posted - 2010.10.25 03:53:00 - [157]
 

I would be interested in seeing a small change sometime soon, or a reason why it cannot. That is that Shield extenders do not seem to take effect when in space and the ship has been boarded from a Ship Maint Array. This is frustrating as on-the-go pvp shield buffer ships are useless when stored in there, since they will have only the base shield left. This doesn't seem to make sense since the array has a fitting service, so all mods should take effect immediately.

Janatheth
Posted - 2010.10.25 14:31:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 21/10/2010 21:55:49

...With lazors its kinda different - scorch is always superior till you swap to Xray ranges (i think... forgot which close range ammo has similiar damage to scorch).


This is somewhat misleading since Scorch does have two drawbacks -- tracking penalty and higher cap use. Theoretically, normal ammo could be better under certain conditions.

Patripassion
Posted - 2010.10.27 06:46:00 - [159]
 

Blasters on battleships are for fighting on station undocks, and they excel more than any other weapon in that situation. Gnash your teeth all you want.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2010.10.28 16:14:00 - [160]
 

I've not yet read the whole thread, but let me say

FRACKING AWESOME!!

Thanks CCP, I for one, feel heard .. er read.

best,
Apollo

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2010.10.30 10:15:00 - [161]
 

Can I suggest you really try to do something different with Void this time around, as Faction AM and Void cannot co-exist when they are both doing the same thing - "MOAR D4M4GE!!!11111"

Ideally this should be part of a review of the role you see for blasters because it is a mess at the moment: Serpentis - 'old skool' solo work at 10x the price, everything else 'Meh - I'll leave it docked'.
But I'm guessing that won't happen...

Oh but they're apparently "great for station games!" lol - ugh... ugh

stu007
Posted - 2010.11.01 18:27:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Patri Andari
Edited by: Patri Andari on 20/10/2010 01:30:30
I must admit i have not been on sisi to check this out but i have a questions:

All short range missiles (rockets, hams and torps) have a penalty to either ship speed (javlin) or ship signature radius (terror & rage) yet non of them were mentioned in the blog.

Will these be considered in the up coming T2 ammo boost or only turret ammo?

If not why?



I'd also like to know this. Are the changes only to T2 turret ammo, or are the ship penalties being removed for T2 close range missiles? Because the huge bloom in sig radius is fairly annoying. Not that many people will start using T2 unguided missiles (HAMs, Torps, Rockets) due to other drawbacks they have, but the T2 guided missiles do get used quite frequently at the moment

CCP Chronotis

Posted - 2010.11.07 12:59:00 - [163]
 

An update:

Singularity will not be available for testing of these changes again till later this week as we are currently utilising the server for testing of some patches to our recent inventory 64 upgrade.

In the meantime, here is a list of a few changes since this blog was penned:

Fighter Bombers

Fighter bombers will return to doing missile damage and not turret damage as previously mentioned so the damage against capital ships will be unchanged from what it is today on Tranquillity. However, sub-capital class ships will only receive a fraction of the damage they currently receive today as mentioned originally in the blog. In addition the graphical effect has had another iteration and looks much nicer so all in all, it is a tidy package of far less load on the server and therefore in your fleet fights as well as an adjustment of the effectiveness of fighter bombers against sub-capital class ships and much better looking effects.

Tech 2 ammo

The changes here in addition to already mentioned in the blog is that the short range tech 2 ammo like void, hail and conflagration will receive a 10% damage boost whilst maintaining the tracking speed modifier (albeit at a lower penalty) so will do more damage than the equivalent faction ammo but still be penalised in tracking terms so more awesome if you have a pinned or slow moving large ship but against targets where you need higher tracking speeds then you will need to switch between ammo until you can web/warp scramble them. This will give it a good few scenarios where this ammo is a good choice over the faction variants.


Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.11.07 14:47:00 - [164]
 

Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 07/11/2010 14:51:12
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
An update:
Tech 2 ammo

The changes here in addition to already mentioned in the blog is that the short range tech 2 ammo like void, hail and conflagration will receive a 10% damage boost whilst maintaining the tracking speed modifier (albeit at a lower penalty) so will do more damage than the equivalent faction ammo but still be penalised in tracking terms so more awesome if you have a pinned or slow moving large ship but against targets where you need higher tracking speeds then you will need to switch between ammo until you can web/warp scramble them. This will give it a good few scenarios where this ammo is a good choice over the faction variants.




Which still makes it worthless. Have you ever been in a PVP fight? There is no TIME to take 10 seconds to change ammo. Fights often last LESS than 10 seconds in toto... So instead of taking T2 short range ammo you will continue to use faction.

Could we please get someone who actually PVPs with their ships (instead of shooting rats only) put in charge of stuff like this? My point is one an actually pvp player would have brought up within 5 seconds of your proposed solution.

This also does nothing at all to help the fact that blasters are absolutely useless as well.

Remove the tracking penalties entirely. Short range=high speed= NEED for tracking. Get rid of damage bonuses if you have to but INCREASE tracking!

Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.11.07 15:01:00 - [165]
 

I agree that the reload time is way too long.

2.5 seconds for frigate weapons, 5 seconds for cruiser weapons and 10 seconds (current) for battleship weapons would open up a lot of new tactics and make it viable to switch ammo type during a fight.

Rivqua
Caldari
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2010.11.07 15:31:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 07/11/2010 14:51:12
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
An update:
Tech 2 ammo

The changes here in addition to already mentioned in the blog is that the short range tech 2 ammo like void, hail and conflagration will receive a 10% damage boost whilst maintaining the tracking speed modifier (albeit at a lower penalty) so will do more damage than the equivalent faction ammo but still be penalised in tracking terms so more awesome if you have a pinned or slow moving large ship but against targets where you need higher tracking speeds then you will need to switch between ammo until you can web/warp scramble them. This will give it a good few scenarios where this ammo is a good choice over the faction variants.




Which still makes it worthless. Have you ever been in a PVP fight? There is no TIME to take 10 seconds to change ammo. Fights often last LESS than 10 seconds in toto... So instead of taking T2 short range ammo you will continue to use faction.

Could we please get someone who actually PVPs with their ships (instead of shooting rats only) put in charge of stuff like this? My point is one an actually pvp player would have brought up within 5 seconds of your proposed solution.

This also does nothing at all to help the fact that blasters are absolutely useless as well.

Remove the tracking penalties entirely. Short range=high speed= NEED for tracking. Get rid of damage bonuses if you have to but INCREASE tracking!



You mean ganks don't last more then 10s. Because I PVP quite a lot,and I usually swap ammo during fights (and the tengu eats missiles so fast, it reloads 4-5 times during a fight anyway). So stopping a launcher at 1 missile left, and swapping dmg type is perfectly viable.

And blasters already track madly well, if anything, it pronounces the advantage of blasters over for example lasers, that have atrocious tracking.

Hasnpbeard
Posted - 2010.11.07 16:15:00 - [167]
 

At least now it can be - technically - useful, thanks. Will see how works out in practice.

I assume small changes like these are put forward from the personal agendas of a CCP dev who is looking for things to improve beyond the scheduled work? Cheers for that.

What i find irritating that this thread left me with the impression the change had no routine quality/dev process follow up at all ? It's like you had an idea, talked to some colleagues about it over lunch-break who said "yeah cool, whatever". So only when the subscribers complained "what is this ****" you actually realized it was half-baked at best, then tweaked with this or that to come up with a compromise that doesn't look completely stupid. And that compromise is MOAR DAMAGE. Sigh.

Alghara
Posted - 2010.11.08 10:47:00 - [168]
 

CCP have make a new invention with this modification.

The Machariel doomdays.

You need to make hudge modification in your weapon and range.

The railgun don't have enough dps, the blaster don't have enough range or the ship a too slow.

Now the hybrid are not good and the artillery have to much advantage. You need to re-balance that.

Bobbeh
Minmatar
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.11.09 07:58:00 - [169]
 

These aren't the artillery your looking for?

Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Posted - 2010.11.09 16:43:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 07/11/2010 14:51:12
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
An update:
Tech 2 ammo

The changes here in addition to already mentioned in the blog is that the short range tech 2 ammo like void, hail and conflagration will receive a 10% damage boost whilst maintaining the tracking speed modifier (albeit at a lower penalty) so will do more damage than the equivalent faction ammo but still be penalised in tracking terms so more awesome if you have a pinned or slow moving large ship but against targets where you need higher tracking speeds then you will need to switch between ammo until you can web/warp scramble them. This will give it a good few scenarios where this ammo is a good choice over the faction variants.




Which still makes it worthless. Have you ever been in a PVP fight? There is no TIME to take 10 seconds to change ammo. Fights often last LESS than 10 seconds in toto... So instead of taking T2 short range ammo you will continue to use faction.

Could we please get someone who actually PVPs with their ships (instead of shooting rats only) put in charge of stuff like this? My point is one an actually pvp player would have brought up within 5 seconds of your proposed solution.

This also does nothing at all to help the fact that blasters are absolutely useless as well.

Remove the tracking penalties entirely. Short range=high speed= NEED for tracking. Get rid of damage bonuses if you have to but INCREASE tracking!



Don't be silly. It doesn't make it useless, it makes it situational.
If you have a web on your ship then chances are you are going to use T2.
If you (or your gangmates) do not then you don't.

If you are tackling a larger, slower ship you use the T2.
If you are tackiling a ship that will try to orbit you, you use faction.

Far from useless.

Vidar Kentoran
Minmatar
Eighty Joule Brewery
Posted - 2010.11.09 19:16:00 - [171]
 

Edited by: Vidar Kentoran on 09/11/2010 20:54:26
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
An update:
Fighter Bombers

Fighter bombers will return to doing missile damage and not turret damage as previously mentioned so the damage against capital ships will be unchanged from what it is today on Tranquillity. However, sub-capital class ships will only receive a fraction of the damage they currently receive today as mentioned originally in the blog. In addition the graphical effect has had another iteration and looks much nicer so all in all, it is a tidy package of far less load on the server and therefore in your fleet fights as well as an adjustment of the effectiveness of fighter bombers against sub-capital class ships and much better looking effects.



I'm confused, does this mean you aren't improving the lag? Also, are you merely increasing the explosion radius of fighter bombers' torps then to make them even less effective against subcaps?

Quote:
The changes here in addition to already mentioned in the blog is that the short range tech 2 ammo like void, hail and conflagration will receive a 10% damage boost whilst maintaining the tracking speed modifier (albeit at a lower penalty) so will do more damage than the equivalent faction ammo but still be penalised in tracking terms so more awesome if you have a pinned or slow moving large ship but against targets where you need higher tracking speeds then you will need to switch between ammo until you can web/warp scramble them. This will give it a good few scenarios where this ammo is a good choice over the faction variants.


This is a significant boost to HACs that are already far more powerful than battleship-class ships, you realize?

To elaborate here, this is fine for small and medium-sized ammos, as they have plenty of larger targets to shoot at. However, Large ammo that is specialized for shooting even larger and slower targets doesn't really seem that sensible. Why not make the Large specialized short-range ammo have a tracking bonus with its range penalties and not increase its damage. That would give bs-sized ships some way to track cruiser-sized ones.

I realize this goes against all sizes having uniform bonuses, but I really don't see what use tracking-penalized close range ammo is supposed to have for battleships, and they do need some help in trying to hit smaller targets in the current meta.

Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.11.09 19:17:00 - [172]
 

Edited by: Crias Taylor on 09/11/2010 19:21:35
Ok, taking a note here. Tech 2 ammo (even more so for hybrids) still useless.

Thanks. Glad we got that cleared up.

At least ganking hulks will be cheaper.

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2010.11.18 20:33:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Can I suggest you really try to do something different with Void this time around, as Faction AM and Void cannot co-exist when they are both doing the same thing - "MOAR D4M4GE!!!11111"

Ideally this should be part of a review of the role you see for blasters because it is a mess at the moment: Serpentis - 'old skool' solo work at 10x the price, everything else 'Meh - I'll leave it docked'.
But I'm guessing that won't happen...

Oh but they're apparently "great for station games!" lol - ugh... ugh


Originally by: CCP Chronotis
An update:

Singularity will not be available for testing of these changes again till later this week as we are currently utilising the server for testing of some patches to our recent inventory 64 upgrade.

In the meantime, here is a list of a few changes since this blog was penned:

Fighter Bombers

Fighter bombers will return to doing missile damage and not turret damage as previously mentioned so the damage against capital ships will be unchanged from what it is today on Tranquillity. However, sub-capital class ships will only receive a fraction of the damage they currently receive today as mentioned originally in the blog. In addition the graphical effect has had another iteration and looks much nicer so all in all, it is a tidy package of far less load on the server and therefore in your fleet fights as well as an adjustment of the effectiveness of fighter bombers against sub-capital class ships and much better looking effects.

Tech 2 ammo

The changes here in addition to already mentioned in the blog is that the short range tech 2 ammo like void, hail and conflagration will receive a 10% damage boost whilst maintaining the tracking speed modifier (albeit at a lower penalty) so will do more damage than the equivalent faction ammo but still be penalised in tracking terms so more awesome if you have a pinned or slow moving large ship but against targets where you need higher tracking speeds then you will need to switch between ammo until you can web/warp scramble them. This will give it a good few scenarios where this ammo is a good choice over the faction variants.


ugh

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.11.20 21:26:00 - [174]
 

So is the current graphic/mechanic of fighter bombers on SISI the most recent iteration you spoke of on this page or is there a better graphic than these four bars of white light that look incredibly dull after about 2 minutes?

DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2010.11.22 11:22:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
An update:

Singularity will not be available for testing of these changes again till later this week as we are currently utilising the server for testing of some patches to our recent inventory 64 upgrade.

In the meantime, here is a list of a few changes since this blog was penned:

Fighter Bombers

Fighter bombers will return to doing missile damage and not turret damage as previously mentioned so the damage against capital ships will be unchanged from what it is today on Tranquillity. However, sub-capital class ships will only receive a fraction of the damage they currently receive today as mentioned originally in the blog. In addition the graphical effect has had another iteration and looks much nicer so all in all, it is a tidy package of far less load on the server and therefore in your fleet fights as well as an adjustment of the effectiveness of fighter bombers against sub-capital class ships and much better looking effects.


I guess anything that helps reduce lag must be a good thing.

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Tech 2 ammo

The changes here in addition to already mentioned in the blog is that the short range tech 2 ammo like void, hail and conflagration will receive a 10% damage boost whilst maintaining the tracking speed modifier (albeit at a lower penalty) so will do more damage than the equivalent faction ammo but still be penalised in tracking terms so more awesome if you have a pinned or slow moving large ship but against targets where you need higher tracking speeds then you will need to switch between ammo until you can web/warp scramble them. This will give it a good few scenarios where this ammo is a good choice over the faction variants.


More Damage and less tracking? For short range high speed ammo?

Well, I hope the extensive cap drain while using that ammo is removed since we'll have to fit up Tracking Computers now just to make the ammo usable.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2010.11.24 12:37:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Remove the tracking penalties entirely. Short range=high speed= NEED for tracking. Get rid of damage bonuses if you have to but INCREASE tracking!

Are you advocating that they apply logic when designing the tools we use to slap each other with? Why I never!

Would be by far the best solution as it essentially gives us two distinct options in brawls; Tracking (T2) or Damage (Faction), but alas it is not to be.

Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
Posted - 2010.11.24 15:35:00 - [177]
 

Edited by: Patri Andari on 24/11/2010 15:44:25
Just went on test server for a looksie and I have a few questions:

Why are T2 Missiles not included in this T2 ammo buff?

Why do Javelin Hams & Precision Heavies still slow my ship down?

Why do Rage Hams & Rage Heavies still bloom my signature?

Why would you only remove negative ship effects from short ranged turret T2 ammo and not missiles?

How is this balanced?


I am hoping I missed something and perhaps your changes were just rolled back today. If not, this is a blatant slap to Caldari and Khanid boats. Evil or Very Mad





StrikeForcer
Posted - 2010.12.04 21:04:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: John Zorg
Nice Blog post!

Will we be seeing the completion of the fix to the bonus of the Hel this expansion? It was promised with the last expansion and we were told it is under review? Still nothing said about it...




Could we please get an answer on this?

Thanks


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