open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked [Proposal] The Drake - a second look at awesome
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.10.15 18:27:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Evelgrivion on 15/10/2010 19:47:33
Eve Online is a cocktail of various ships, piloting specializations, and choices. Bonuses, optimizations, bonuses, and synergy of modules allow ships to perform specific roles to varying degrees of success. Do you fit for serious repair ability, a large buffer, or speed? Damage output or defense? Good tracking or high alpha? Compared to other vessels, the Drake is a ship of many merits which paint it as one exceptional to others. Lets think about the Drake's various advantages for a few moments.
  • The drake is inexpensive and has relatively low skill requirements
  • The Drake uses missiles, which gives it some guaranteed level of DPS against any target in range. Heavy Missile Drakes can hit any target within lock range, while HAM drakes can strike out to maximum warp disruptor point range.
  • If the target is in range, the missile will always hit unless the missile is outrun. Very few ships are capable of outrunning missiles today.
  • Passive shield tanks and Missiles give the Drake near-immunity to capacitor warfare
  • The Drake slaughters speed ships
  • The drake does not have to compromise between tank and DPS

The Drake's assets are the embodiment of risk aversion. It does not compromise and it does not suffer weakness. The massive hitpoint buffer and modest DPS lowers the Drake's battlefield target priority substantially, and all the while, the ship can comfortably do what it does best; hit hard, and soak up damage like a sponge. The Drake's only time of weakness is when the numbers reach the critical mass to prioritize alpha strike - presuming there isn't a higher priority target on the field. Worse still, the Drake is a ship that almost anyone can fly very quickly. I can think of no vessel that embodies what's wrong with eve more than this one.

So how do we fix the drake? The answer lies not in hurting the drake's ability to put out raw damage, but in breaking the drake's ability to equip a capacitor warfare resistant tank without compromising on damage output.

I propose reducing the Drake's CPU output by 25 points, and the grid by 75 points. This will bring the Drake in line with the rest of the ships in this game by forcing pilots to make a choice: do you want to optimize for DPS, or do you want to optimize for defense? You should not have the CPU and or grid to do both without compromise.

Avan Sercedos
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.10.15 18:34:00 - [2]
 

show me on the killboard where the mean drake touched you

Uriel Winston
Posted - 2010.10.15 19:41:00 - [3]
 

so now drake pilots will have to buy the 1% pg/cpu implant?

yeah that will ballance it..LaughingLaughingLaughing

drakes arent that great and you'll hit for crap damage a mwd vaga

"hint: speed affects missile damage"

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.10.15 19:47:00 - [4]
 

The drake is fine.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2010.10.15 20:20:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
do you want to optimize for DPS, or do you want to optimize for defense? You should not have the CPU and or grid to do both without compromise.
What, you want to them to be more like Gallente and less like Minmatar ships?

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.10.15 22:07:00 - [6]
 

Not supported for all the reasons mentioned in the original thread

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2010.10.15 22:46:00 - [7]
 

Now I've seen it all.

Everyone else complains and gripes about the drake for its insanely infamous EHP on shield tanks and yet here you are trying to buff it.

Either your totally out of your mind or your just that bad of a noob.

Not supporting.

PS: yeah... your obviously a noob.

Vanderie
Amarr
Gunpoint Diplomacy

Posted - 2010.10.16 19:20:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Vanderie on 16/10/2010 19:22:14
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Now I've seen it all.

Everyone else complains and gripes about the drake for its insanely infamous EHP on shield tanks and yet here you are trying to buff it.

Either your totally out of your mind or your just that bad of a noob.

Not supporting.

PS: yeah... your obviously a noob.


Did you not read what Evelgrivion said or did you just drink a gallon of bleach and figure it would be a good time to post something? Go back and read his post, and you'd see he's calling for a nerf, not a buff, of the Drake.

Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.10.16 19:33:00 - [9]
 

A T2 drake can just about hold its own against a T1 Meta 4 Hurricane. Hurricane has less tank more gank, Drake has more tank less gank.

I think it could use a little buff in damage tbh. But, I'm willing to accept my low dps for my turtletank.


Not supported. Unless you give us damage buffs.

Cousin Tom
Posted - 2010.10.16 19:53:00 - [10]
 

1. The drake is within a few mil of any t2 bc in terms of hull and full fit cost with insurance.
2. Missiles are OP now? Get the **** out.
3. See above.
4. Passive shield tanks (ie. resist amps and 2-3 LSE) on drakes = no tackle/no prop mod. If you think that still leaves them dangerous, urbad.
5. The drake slaughters speed ships that don't know how to degress and/or pick appropriate targets.
6. The drake does have to compromise between tank and tackle, which matters outside of a giant blob. But you're right, no other ship in the game is dangerous in large numbers. Rolling Eyes

In conclusion: htfu.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.10.17 02:01:00 - [11]
 

Drake is fine. It's solid in PVE and PVP, not overpowered though, it has it's weaknesses.

count sporkula
Posted - 2010.10.17 02:31:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: count sporkula on 17/10/2010 02:35:15
Edited by: count sporkula on 17/10/2010 02:34:52

edited for mistakes

he is right, between tank and dps.... but as a solo person

dps + tank with no gank = bad
tank + gank with no dps = bad
dps + gank with no tank = maybe, but still not good


so guess what..... you are gonna be in fleet or you will sack something.

in other words... its fine.

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.10.17 13:43:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Aiwha
A T2 drake


wat Neutral

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2010.10.17 16:34:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 17/10/2010 16:36:08
Eve Online is a cocktail of various ships, piloting specializations, and choices. Bonuses, optimizations, bonuses, and synergy of modules allow ships to perform specific roles to varying degrees of success. Do you fit for serious repair ability, a large buffer, or speed? Damage output or defense? Good tracking or high alpha? Compared to other vessels, the Hurricane is a ship of many merits which paint it as one exceptional to others. Lets think about the Hurricane's various advantages for a few moments.

* The Hurricane is inexpensive and has relatively low skill requirements
* The Hurricane uses autocannons, which gives it enormous flexibility in engagement range, good tracking and damage type selection as well as being able to comfortably fit the highest caliber guns
* If the target has low transversal, the autocannons will always hit for respectable dps
* The ability to match the mobility of a cruiser gives it the ability to disengage from a fight easily
* The Hurricane slaughters all sorts
* The Hurricane does not have to compromise between utility and dps


The Hurricane's assets are the embodiment of risk aversion. It does not compromise and it does not suffer weakness. The reasonable hitpoint buffer and excellent mobility, firepower and neuts allow it to disengage at will. The Hurricane's only time of weakness is when the numbers reach the critical mass to prioritize alpha strike or when powerful neuting is brought to bear - presuming a Curse or battleship is available. Worse still, the Hurricane is a ship that almost anyone can fly very quickly. I can think of no vessel that embodies what's wrong with eve more than this one.

So how do we fix the Hurricane? The answer lies not in hurting the Hurricane's ability to put out raw damage, but in breaking the Hurricane's ability to equip every mod it needs without compromising on firepower or mobility.

I propose reducing the Hurricane's CPU output by 50 points, and the grid by 150 points. This will bring the Hurricane in line with the rest of the ships in this game by forcing pilots to make a choice: do you want to optimize for utility, or do you want to optimize for DPS? You should not have the CPU and or grid to fit a full rack of 425mm autocannons with a large shield buffer and 2x medium neuts or medium neut and warfare link.

See what I did there?

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.10.17 16:41:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 17/10/2010 16:36:08
Eve Online is a cocktail of various ships, piloting specializations, and choices. Bonuses, optimizations, bonuses, and synergy of modules allow ships to perform specific roles to varying degrees of success. Do you fit for serious repair ability, a large buffer, or speed? Damage output or defense? Good tracking or high alpha? Compared to other vessels, the Hurricane is a ship of many merits which paint it as one exceptional to others. Lets think about the Hurricane's various advantages for a few moments.

* The Hurricane is inexpensive and has relatively low skill requirements
* The Hurricane uses autocannons, which gives it enormous flexibility in engagement range, good tracking and damage type selection as well as being able to comfortably fit the highest caliber guns
* If the target has low transversal, the autocannons will always hit for respectable dps
* The ability to match the mobility of a cruiser gives it the ability to disengage from a fight easily
* The Hurricane slaughters all sorts
* The Hurricane does not have to compromise between utility and dps


The Hurricane's assets are the embodiment of risk aversion. It does not compromise and it does not suffer weakness. The reasonable hitpoint buffer and excellent mobility, firepower and neuts allow it to disengage at will. The Hurricane's only time of weakness is when the numbers reach the critical mass to prioritize alpha strike or when powerful neuting is brought to bear - presuming a Curse or battleship is available. Worse still, the Hurricane is a ship that almost anyone can fly very quickly. I can think of no vessel that embodies what's wrong with eve more than this one.

So how do we fix the Hurricane? The answer lies not in hurting the Hurricane's ability to put out raw damage, but in breaking the Hurricane's ability to equip every mod it needs without compromising on firepower or mobility.

I propose reducing the Hurricane's CPU output by 50 points, and the grid by 150 points. This will bring the Hurricane in line with the rest of the ships in this game by forcing pilots to make a choice: do you want to optimize for utility, or do you want to optimize for DPS? You should not have the CPU and or grid to fit a full rack of 425mm autocannons with a large shield buffer and 2x medium neuts or medium neut and warfare link.

See what I did there?


You're right. Nerf the Drake, buff the Hurricane.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2010.10.17 16:46:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Drake Draconis on 17/10/2010 16:48:40
Originally by: Vanderie
Edited by: Vanderie on 16/10/2010 19:22:14
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Now I've seen it all.

Everyone else complains and gripes about the drake for its insanely infamous EHP on shield tanks and yet here you are trying to buff it.

Either your totally out of your mind or your just that bad of a noob.

Not supporting.

PS: yeah... your obviously a noob.


Did you not read what Evelgrivion said or did you just drink a gallon of bleach and figure it would be a good time to post something? Go back and read his post, and you'd see he's calling for a nerf, not a buff, of the Drake.


Fine... then its a nerf.
How about less bull#### and more direct?

Eitehr way... the drakes fine. (just look at what everyone else is saying about it)

You also should keep in mind the cladari don't really have much to say when it comes to PVP ships as it is.

I'm content to let them have their drakes. : O P

The OP is still a noob IMHO for even bothering to ask for a nerf/buff or whatever the hell hes asking for.

Dav Varan
Posted - 2010.10.19 20:03:00 - [17]
 

"The massive hitpoint buffer and modest DPS lowers the Drake's battlefield target priority substantially, and all the while, the ship can comfortably do what it does best; hit hard, and soak up damage like a sponge."

You are contradicting yourself in the same paragraph.

Modest DPS and Hit hard ?

I think your initial assesment is true.

Drakes are popular because they are a low priority target having modest dps and big tank.
Who want to be in the harby/cane in a gang full of drakes ??

Of course the bcu versus pdu/dcu slot choice is where the drake has its firepower v defence choice to be made.

I dont understand why you think it is possible to fit max attack and max defence at the same time ?
You make your choices when fitting a drake like anyother ship

And its most def not possible to fit make dps/tank with a mwd and medium neut + tackle these are all choices.

The cpu/grid of the drake is fine it prevent max t2 fits allready.

JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
Posted - 2010.10.20 16:21:00 - [18]
 

Hm...WTF? yes, drake need a boost, +1 laucner slot, as on his hull.Very Happy

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2010.10.20 16:34:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Gypsio III on 20/10/2010 16:35:24
Originally by: Evelgrivion
The massive hitpoint buffer and modest DPS lowers the Drake's battlefield target priority substantially, and all the while, the ship can comfortably do what it does best; hit hard, and soak up damage like a sponge.


Laughing

So it "hits hard" with its "modest DPS"? And it "soaks up damage like a sponge" whilst not actually being shot at because of its low "battlefield target priority"?

This must be some kind of crazy Schrodinger's Drake, a superposition of all possible states. What a load of blather. Laughing

fogbird
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.25 09:45:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Edited by: Gypsio III on 20/10/2010 16:35:24
Originally by: Evelgrivion
The massive hitpoint buffer and modest DPS lowers the Drake's battlefield target priority substantially, and all the while, the ship can comfortably do what it does best; hit hard, and soak up damage like a sponge.


Laughing

So it "hits hard" with its "modest DPS"? And it "soaks up damage like a sponge" whilst not actually being shot at because of its low "battlefield target priority"?

This must be some kind of crazy Schrodinger's Drake, a superposition of all possible states. What a load of blather. Laughing


a fine THIS. to that!

i fly gallente and even i don't see why the drake should be nerved. but buffing blasters a bit... well now were talking.

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2010.10.25 17:38:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Drake Draconis
Angry noob rant


Dude, chill, eat more fiber.

As to the OP. Drake is fine leave it alone.

next.

Kaurapa
Posted - 2010.10.25 20:01:00 - [22]
 

This thread deserves a more serious response:

The changes CCP made to the game mechanics in Dominion have resulted in a trend toward smaller sig ships in 0.0 fleet combat.
This leaves alliances with choices on what BC/C fleets to fly. The most common fleets can either be summed up as:

1. Drake Fleet with Vulture/Tengu Bonuses and Scimitar Logistics
2. After burning Armor Hac Fleet with Damnation/Loki Bonuses and Guardian Logistics.

Only one of the ships that fits either of these setups is avaliable to low sp pilots. Hence the Drake has become the king of the 0.0 fleet fight.

If CCP mess with the Drake they are messing with a symptom not the cause.
Other options include: Nerf Logistics, Nerf Sig Raduis bonuses, Buff damage of large turrets against smaller targets... ...all of those options would involve a level of committment and foresight that CCP have shown time and time again they lack.

Human Dust
Posted - 2010.10.26 08:56:00 - [23]
 

This reply is brought to you by a relatively bad pilot.

I am an amarr toon cross trained in caldari. I have a decent distribution in skills, totaling a fair amount of sp. I recently fit out a drake to much satisfaction. Yes, the solid tank and the solid dps is nice. But it does still use missiles, so when it gets right down to it a different bc would be a better choice (imo) in a fleet than a drake, yet it still has its use and could still serve as a benefit. The drake is such a popular ship for this reason. It is easily in reach for newer pilots, and can be put to use in many different situations in eve. Does this make it op? Maybe. It could be that a jack of all trades of this type was not intended. I for one do not believe this. And after taking the ferox for a spin, I think CCP felt bad for caldari. Thats just my two cents, and I will not be supporting this support or the similar one just below it. The drake is fine the way it is, takes a lot of skill to completely max out (as it should), but also can be fit decently at a lower sp.


In short, leave my drake alone, or make the ferox less of a failboat.

Aerilis
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate

Posted - 2010.10.26 09:48:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Aerilis on 26/10/2010 09:49:42
Choose between tank and utility?

The Drake can fit a LSE and 2x Invuln, and STILL fit a Disruptor and Web.
What other ship can fit a point, web, 3x damage mods, and still have more than 80k EHP?

Rickhart
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.26 14:00:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Rickhart on 26/10/2010 14:09:04
Originally by: Aerilis
Edited by: Aerilis on 26/10/2010 09:49:42
Choose between tank and utility?

The Drake can fit a LSE and 2x Invuln, and STILL fit a Disruptor and Web.
What other ship can fit a point, web, 3x damage mods, and still have more than 80k EHP?
you do realize that a cane can fit 2 damage mods tackle dual nuet tank and cap booster or dual web and still not have a pg implant right?

EDIT: and have really good dps and also the drake is one of only good pvp caldari ships.

Rickhart
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.26 14:13:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Drake Draconis
Now I've seen it all.

.
have you ever see a man eat his own head?

Spugg Galdon
Posted - 2010.10.26 17:02:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Spugg Galdon on 26/10/2010 17:12:45
Originally by: Dav Varan

And its most def not possible to fit make dps/tank with a mwd and medium neut + tackle these are all choices



Ehem....

[Drake, Drake: H-M-L + M-Neut]
Power Diagnostic System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5


517 DPS (Kinetic)
75k EHP 85k with overload
6 minutes 40 seconds of cap with neut (MWD off)
Requires a +3% CPU imp


Rate it at battle clinic.... http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/46081-Drake-517-DPS-75k-EHP-MNeut-MWD-Tackle-Have-it-all.html

Rickhart
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.26 18:10:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Rickhart on 27/10/2010 13:48:20
Originally by: Spugg Galdon
Edited by: Spugg Galdon on 26/10/2010 17:12:45
Originally by: Dav Varan

And its most def not possible to fit make dps/tank with a mwd and medium neut + tackle these are all choices



Ehem....

[Drake, Drake: H-M-L + M-Neut]
Power Diagnostic System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5


517 DPS (Kinetic)
75k EHP 85k with overload
6 minutes 40 seconds of cap with neut (MWD off)
Requires a +3% CPU imp


Rate it at battle clinic.... http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/46081-Drake-517-DPS-75k-EHP-MNeut-MWD-Tackle-Have-it-all.html
this sucks balls needs dcu hams take the msa and put in a web so take the pdu OFF you will need a pg implant though and i dont think you will be able to fit the medium nuet

Spugg Galdon
Posted - 2010.10.26 22:31:00 - [29]
 

Well done Rick. You stay on that unilateral way of thinking. You are so awesome. I was just showing that the Drake can do what someone asked and the fit doesn't suck balls. The stats are comparable and whats with this fixation of fitting a DCU? Real men fit 3 damage mods you big girl.

Sphit Ker
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.10.26 23:00:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
Drake is fine. It's solid in PVE and PVP, not overpowered though, it has it's weaknesses.


Pray tell, where are those weaknesses I can exploit?



Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only