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Nuadi
Posted - 2010.10.13 14:23:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Another benefits with the new ECUs is that they don't have a fixed cutoff date, you can actually submit a new "program" before the one that is installed runs it's course. so you don't have to kick it at 03.47 on a sunday night.


Thank you. That feature will virtually eliminate down time in a network. Love it!

Neo Horten
Amarr
Posted - 2010.10.13 14:24:00 - [32]
 

Upgradable Command Centers is a VERY welcome addition.

Thank you!

Bluefix
Gnu Terror Corps
Posted - 2010.10.13 15:14:00 - [33]
 

Sounds really good although it's still far away from anything I will find fun.

Also "Surveying has been radically revamped and will allow players to create extraction programs that span anything from an hour to 14 days!" in any form, is still a feature that encourages macros or boredom. Personally I think they should just work nonstop and then effectiveness should be affected by something more interesting than your ability to endure the boredom of resetting as often as possible Confused

Scoto Timta
EveMerc's
Posted - 2010.10.13 16:04:00 - [34]
 

Allow us to choose an extraction rate that uses up our CPU rather than a fixed value for each extractor. So running an extractor at 100% capacity will use the full 200/800, but running it at 75% capacity only uses 150/600. Then let the extractors run non-stop (as long as storage is available). We have to balance the extraction rates versus depletion of the resource for best efficiency. No more click-fest to restart extractors. And if something unexpected comes up to prevent me from playing at my usual time, my PI keeps going until my storage is full.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.10.13 16:10:00 - [35]
 

How much more cumbersome the everyday extractors setup will become with this change?
Did you resolved the issue with processors locking goods out of processing?

CCP Tuxford

Posted - 2010.10.13 16:22:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Scoto Timta
Allow us to choose an extraction rate that uses up our CPU rather than a fixed value for each extractor. So running an extractor at 100% capacity will use the full 200/800, but running it at 75% capacity only uses 150/600. Then let the extractors run non-stop (as long as storage is available). We have to balance the extraction rates versus depletion of the resource for best efficiency. No more click-fest to restart extractors. And if something unexpected comes up to prevent me from playing at my usual time, my PI keeps going until my storage is full.

Well more extractor heads = more yield = more pg and cpu so that is essentially what will happen. You can scale back the production of the ecu by reducing the amount of heads.

CCP Tuxford

Posted - 2010.10.13 16:30:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
How much more cumbersome the everyday extractors setup will become with this change?
Did you resolved the issue with processors locking goods out of processing?

If you want to make changes to your program or the distribution has changed by some significant amount you may want to move the add/remove heads or move them around as well as mess with the radius which may take some time depending on how anal you're being about getting the "perfect" program. But you'll have less ECUs compared to current style extractors. We fiddled around with the routing so it attempts to automatically route products even though it isn't getting the same amount from newly installed program.

I'm not familiar with the issue you're describing unless it's the issue where processors weren't being started when stuff was moved to a spaceport/command center. That has been fixed and deployed to TQ shortly after Tyrannis 1.1.

Mike deVoid
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2010.10.13 16:47:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Mike deVoid on 13/10/2010 16:54:10
1. Any changes to Import/Export taxes? These are monstrously large for the P4 materials. Per unit it accounts for between 25-50% of the net profit available. This compares to an average of only 8% and 2% for the P3 and P2 materials, respectively.

2. Will there be any new PI reactants and products?

3. Any changes to the inputs/outputs for any of the schematics?

4. Will you allow routing between storage facilities?

5. I have produced a spreadsheet to show net profit available on production-only planets (they vastly outstrip what is made by mining-only planets or combinations due to the constant running of the facilities). Are these the sort of levels of profits you were thinking about?
Uber-spreadsheet

6. Will the arbitrary limit of number of planets we can colonise be increased?


Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.10.13 16:51:00 - [39]
 

Hmmm. Congrats Marcus (CCP Omen) on your new position! Also, congrats CCP on snagging Marcus. :)

This seems pretty nice, but I won't really be able to comment on it heavily as PI is a subject I've intensely avoided. I believe the concept behind it has so much potential, so I encourage you guys to ignore the naysayers that complain about PVP and get this interface polished, slick, and painless. Once you've done that, then focus on making the PVP and 'bringing the pain'.

I am happy to hear that the root cause of the click fest is going away, and I hope that the "programs" accomplish the goal that you want. I'm not quite sold on the up to 14 day thing and the steep drop off in production, but I can at least see arguments for it. Anyway - congrats to everyone and thanks for the blog and further comments in the forum post. May I suggest putting some details from Tuxford's comments in the actual blog?

-Liang


kassie kelmar
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.13 16:54:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: kassie kelmar on 13/10/2010 17:00:02
Has anyone actually been able to test this on Sisi? Last time i tried i couldn't actually submit anything on the PI side, but just playing with the setups it looked "messy" and like it would need a calculator to work out if you were going to get 3000 mats for your processor in the timeframe.
Edit: Was actually expecting a blog saying come test this on sisi and give us your opinions, we've finally got it working where we like it but value users opinions.

Lirinas
Posted - 2010.10.13 17:05:00 - [41]
 

The little bit I've seen of the new Extractors\\ECU's is promising. Anything that cuts down on the clickiness.

However, there' still a few things that need to be addressed to really make PI more usable (and tolerable. I really want to see the ability for players to link their networks together, or at the very least allow for corporate members to manage each others colonies. I also want to see improved options for either planetside storage or orbital storage. As it stands, I have to remain in close proximity to my planets, emptying spaceports and shuffling things around. One of my old setups I had to micromanage everything on a daily basis just to keep things from filling-up too fast.

Somebody earlier mentioned auto-routing materials from one planet to another. That gave me an idea I'll have to post in the Ideas forum, if it's not been posted already.

All of the above, would help make PI more tolerable, but it's still a far cry from what we were originally expecting.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.10.13 17:12:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Tonto Auri on 13/10/2010 17:13:22
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
We fiddled around with the routing so it attempts to automatically route products even though it isn't getting the same amount from newly installed program.

Want an advice? Get rid of the routing amount in route definition, it's senseless.

Quote:
I'm not familiar with the issue you're describing unless it's the issue where processors weren't being started when stuff was moved to a spaceport/command center. That has been fixed and deployed to TQ shortly after Tyrannis 1.1.


Issue is simple:
Let's say, I have two processors making Mechanical Parts (Precious+Reactive) and Enriched Uranium (Toxic+Precious) respectively.
The current logic is: Receive a batch of goods, empty storage, start production, deliver the result.
Seems good et all, until you hit the situation, where last batch of Precious metals gets routed to Mechanical Parts, and last batch of Toxic Metals gets routed to Enriched Uranium. And both processors sitting idle staring at eachother, neither have anything to do from now on.
The neighbouring issue is when you want to roll up your network, you need to wait up to two hours before you can actually cease all operations.

But with a small change in chain, it would radically reduce the hassle.
Just make it "Get materials - start processing - empty storage - deliver the results". Or, "* - deliver the results - empty storage", if you want even more fool-proof with protection from cut supply lines. If result can't be delivered (no route to host, ahha), the processor will skip to the next cycle without emptying it's storage.
Will also solve the rollup issue - you'll only need to wait for all current cycles to end - less than an hour in either case.

Camios
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.10.13 17:13:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Camios on 13/10/2010 17:28:22
I see that there is a maximum distance of the extraction head from its ECU, this compensates for the fact that links between extraction heads and ECU don't cost CPU or PG.

Is that distance fixed or it depends on something like planet diameter? Or skill?

kassie kelmar
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.13 17:19:00 - [44]
 

@Camois

Would be on there now playing with it, but my connection fails during bulk data gathering and i get dumped back to the login screen.

CCP Tuxford

Posted - 2010.10.13 17:22:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Camios
Edited by: Camios on 13/10/2010 17:15:39
I am playing with PI on singularity now.

There is one thing that (in my opinion) is horribly wrong: There is no CPU/PG cost for placing an extraction head far away form en ECU.
This allow everybody to put all their pins (ECUs, production, Launchpads) in a single spot, and move the extraction heads all around the planet where they want.

Are you going to correct this? One of the best thing about PI ahs been routing, the whole mechanic was very interesting, and without any correction routing will become particularly uninteresting.

You mean there is no distance check on the ecu heads? That's weird, it showed up on our demo this morning and it did snap to the max distance.

Camios
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.10.13 17:29:00 - [46]
 

ok, sorry, I checked and the maximum range was a bit large on my little lava planet.

(Sorry, I ninjaedited my post above! will never do it again!)

Camios
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.10.13 17:35:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Camios on 13/10/2010 17:39:09
The maximum range is about 650km on a planet with a 14000 km long equator... does the maximum range depends on planet dimensions (I can't check because I have only one planet and there are no command centers on )? I find 650km a bit big for that planet.

Another question: right now, what's the point in moving extraction heads once I found a good spot instead of setting all up and let it go? Of course you want to change the position of extractor heads when you skill up, but this is not a "routine" event. Are the resource maps moving a bit over time now?



Jaqel Broadside
Posted - 2010.10.13 18:02:00 - [48]
 

I used PI for about 3 months but have stopped and doubt ny changes you make will bring me back.

The worst problem is the VAST difference between HighSec and NullSec extraction rates AND the fact that you cannot land a command centre on Sovereign territory.

I think you missed a very good chance to get people into NullSec and to give something people could compete on.

The whole way PI has been designed smacks of automation by macros within alliances for the win.

Without human interaction actually creates a gain and the lack of human interaction a loss then PI will never be anything other than a task. Tasks are boring and ultimately with little point, something that should be done when you absolutely have to and avoid at all other times.

For a "game" people are supposed to pay for, the creation of a task by a game developer is not forgiveable.

Please create a GAME.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.10.13 18:14:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Cailais on 13/10/2010 18:15:24
Originally by: Yldrad
Originally by: Raid'En
not enough informations on this blog :P
This.

Btw, where are districts, population management, player interaction and other stuff CCP sold us during FanFest 2009?
Starting at 1:00:46.


We got sold a pile of marketing hype. Or, to put it another way - lied too.

C.

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.10.13 18:16:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Jaqel Broadside
I used PI for about 3 months but have stopped and doubt ny changes you make will bring me back.

The worst problem is the VAST difference between HighSec and NullSec extraction rates AND the fact that you cannot land a command centre on Sovereign territory.

I think you missed a very good chance to get people into NullSec and to give something people could compete on.

The whole way PI has been designed smacks of automation by macros within alliances for the win.

Without human interaction actually creates a gain and the lack of human interaction a loss then PI will never be anything other than a task. Tasks are boring and ultimately with little point, something that should be done when you absolutely have to and avoid at all other times.

For a "game" people are supposed to pay for, the creation of a task by a game developer is not forgiveable.

Please create a GAME.
Join an alliance that holds space in 0.0.

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2010.10.13 19:57:00 - [51]
 

Cheap effective way to incorporate corp interaction on PI, give the customs office a corp tab.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.13 20:06:00 - [52]
 

could u help me trying to login to the main game today cant seem to get in like half the player base lets get our priorities right ta

Archestratidas
Posted - 2010.10.13 20:10:00 - [53]
 

>>Planetary Interaction is good, but it isn't excellent.

I stopped reading here.

Gaia Ma'chello
Posted - 2010.10.13 21:09:00 - [54]
 

Reading the CSM suggestions, and the above posts, I noticed "add routing between storage units". I think this was not allowed because it would permit you to route stuff in a circle, thus driving the server hamsters crazy. Instead:

The reason people want to route between storage units is the storage units are too small. So how about allowing storage unit upgrades? For the cost of a 5000 cu m storage unit I can add an additional 5000 cu m to an existing storage unit, launch pad or command center.

Co-operative play: Allow me to set my colony access to "personal", "corporate" or "alliance", allowing others to access it. Also allow roads to be built between colonies, so expedited transfers can be used to trade between players. Like trading in a station, both members of the trade need to accept for it to happen.

T'san Manaan
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.13 21:11:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Yldrad
Originally by: Raid'En
not enough informations on this blog :P
This.

Btw, where are districts, population management, player interaction and other stuff CCP sold us during FanFest 2009?
Starting at 1:00:46.


Please make PI what was promised in this vid :)

Pure Tabasco
Posted - 2010.10.13 22:05:00 - [56]
 

Haha, the first figure remainds me so much D&D and other RPG table games....
nice to see that you make somethings at hand to manipulate before making some hours of code to show it in game (second figure)

Sciencegeek deathdealer
Posted - 2010.10.13 22:50:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Camios
Edited by: Camios on 13/10/2010 17:28:22
I see that there is a maximum distance of the extraction head from its ECU, this compensates for the fact that links between extraction heads and ECU don't cost CPU or PG.

Is that distance fixed or it depends on something like planet diameter? Or skill?


How are you playing with PI? there are no command centers on market currently.... :(

Chiralos
Merchant Princes
Posted - 2010.10.14 01:45:00 - [58]
 

Looking forward to these improvements in Incursion. Making extraction less clicky; possibly more interesting with the moving extractor head placement; more flexible timing; and upgrading hits the largest complaints with the current system quite well.

BUT please please please don't stop there. For PI to be a really good part of EVE we need to see the new stuff that has been talked about: planetary strategic PvP (which doesn't _depend_ on Dust), planetary co-operation, and population management.


kassie kelmar
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.14 02:02:00 - [59]
 

How are you playing with PI? there are no command centers on market currently.... :(


Have a bunch of Basic Command centres in your hangars prior to the mirror.
My initial quick examination of PI

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1399297

Shantheor
Posted - 2010.10.14 03:05:00 - [60]
 

I have 2 characters that do PI in a WH. 1 character is a permanent WH resident and the other is in and out as needed.

It would be very nice if it were possible to launch items remotely and be able to trade/contract items is the customs office to other pilots for hauling. This would simplify the collection of P1 items for manufacturing higher level items in a collaborative fashion.

Automation of transfers would be a nice addition. The "intermodal" skill would suggest that you could transfer PI goods between planets. This would greatly simplify the process of producing higher level PI materials. The skill could be set to allow transfer of a certain range - 1 planet range, 3 planet range, 6, 9, etc. per skill level in addition to the total number planets you can work.

Just my 2 isk.

Shantheor


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