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blankseplocked Question to FCs about leading a fleet and attention span.
 
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Sjugar
Posted - 2010.10.13 06:22:00 - [1]
 

I've lead my own small roams and been part of a lot of fleet.

One of the returning things is fleet discipline. We often have accidents where people jump through a gate when the order was warp and hold. Or warp to the wrong gate.
And some times it just all goes right. And everyone is right on the ball.
I think this has to do with attention span and that you can't expect everyone to have full attention all the time. How do FCs have their members be there at the right times?

Jamradar
Minmatar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2010.10.13 06:37:00 - [2]
 

Be a very very strict FC and give out spankings when people goof off.

Sometimes it's not because they're not paying attention but of genuine mistakes, they could've heard wrong, confused, too afraid to ask for FC to repeat procedure, stress getting to them, the weed was too strong, etc etc.

Christina Bamar
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.10.13 07:41:00 - [3]
 

Fly with people who fly like you.

If you like to be organized and effective then play with people that can pay attention in a fleet. If you don't care then stop worrying about it and just have fun.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.10.13 07:55:00 - [4]
 

People sometimes disobey orders in fleet because:

1. They didn't hear or misunderstood the order
2. They don't agree with the order and think they know better
3. They want to get in on a killmail and think obeying reduced their chances to do so
4. They don't want to lose their ship and think obeying increases their chances to do so
5. They like to cause confusion and mischief
6. They understood the order but goofed up on execution
7. Authority issues

I'm mostly guilty of 2 myself.

If you know your pilots and consider all these points and juggle them, you'll get your members on the right spot at the right time most of the time.

Liberty2k
Posted - 2010.10.13 10:58:00 - [5]
 

Make passive-aggressive remarks, that's what I do.

Eran Mintor
Minmatar
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2010.10.13 11:04:00 - [6]
 

Keep people moving, keep the targets coming (and if there are no targets, be humorous/entertaining in some other way), and know who you can trust to do a certain job (bait, tackle, scout, etc.).

If you do this, you will have less problems with people's attention span's drifting.

And if someone isn't doing what they should be doing, call them out. If the continue to disobey orders, remove them from fleet.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2010.10.13 11:45:00 - [7]
 

It's all about standards, if your recruiting standards are zero or low, you get exactly what you asked for. So if you're capable of not accepting idiots/non-effort people then you have a good basis. Then it comes to training, strategy and all that. Soldiers become soldiers because of training, repetition, more training and more repetition. So, talk about stuff, think things over and make sure everyone understands what they should be doing. Which brings you back to standards.

So it's actually about leadership standards; recruitment, training, interaction, starting a dialogue. Crap leadership gets crap members resulting in crap fleets.


Sle zuze
Posted - 2010.10.13 11:59:00 - [8]
 

Join a serious Corporation. No one complains or disobey the FC (until op is finish)

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2010.10.13 12:12:00 - [9]
 

Just shoot them if they do not listen. Rest will listen.

Ynot Eyob
Minmatar
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front
Posted - 2010.10.13 12:49:00 - [10]
 

One thing i often see happening in larger fleet are members suppose to hold a gate all of a surden jump.

The word jump has become banned in my fleets, it can only be used by the FC.

Scout reporting: Hurricane jumpped trough gate.. Doh 1-2 members jump trough gate now..
Scout could have reported Hurricane going trough gate.

I belive iv seen this happening in most larger fleets iv eighter FCed or been a part of.

Not paying proper attension .. mabe

Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.10.13 13:20:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen on 13/10/2010 13:22:07
Originally by: Ynot Eyob
One thing i often see happening in larger fleet are members suppose to hold a gate all of a surden jump.

The word jump has become banned in my fleets, it can only be used by the FC.

Scout reporting: Hurricane jumpped trough gate.. Doh 1-2 members jump trough gate now..
Scout could have reported Hurricane going trough gate.

I belive iv seen this happening in most larger fleets iv eighter FCed or been a part of.

Not paying proper attension .. mabe


I suspect this is a lag-related problem (not in "caused by lag", but as in "players trying to compensate for laggy situations").

When your running in a 60+ fleet, theres nothing more frustrating than being slow to jump and getting caught by the traffic control; which at best means your hitting the traffic control at every jump (as your at the back of the group), at worse it means you have to relog, making you minutes behind the first combatants in getting into the fight (and in the case of an ambush, missing the fight completely). Therefore, in an attempt to get through before the server starts bottlenecking the jumpers, many people are clicking to jump the second they think they hear a jump order. And as you say, if somone says anything including the word jump, bang, their gone. And of course, once one jumps, others will jump, thinking they missed the order.

Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
Posted - 2010.10.13 14:16:00 - [12]
 

BANANA!!

We used to, especially in big or drunk fleets, replace key words with other rediculous words, 'banana' was a great substitute for 'jump'. That way the FC can easily talk about jumping, warping, engaging etc without people actually doing it. This does require a little retraining of your fleet members, but a fine (enforced if needed by exclusion form fleets and/or friendly destruction if need be).

It's pretty simple and effective, one you've learned only jumping when you hear banana, you can have a pretty short attention span since that word will really stick out on voice.

Other than that it's just training. FCs themselves sometimes thumble/mummble/frell up too, it's not just us cannon fodder guys and gals that mess up. Training suicide fleets helps at times!

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2010.10.13 14:47:00 - [13]
 

The term "herding cats" comes to mind. Laughing

If you want to FC you have to understand who you are leading.

If you are leading nubs you have to take into account that they may not be familiar with many game mechanics and/or may not understand the importance of certain tactics and commands.
Play slow and safe to get them comfortable with the idea that they are in a hostile area. You also have to be strict and give sweet and simple reasons for why they should/should not do certain things. If one decides to be a maverick, leave him out to dry (or pop him... that usually scares the rest of the herd Twisted Evil ).

If you are leading bitter old vets then you have to take into account that they might want to do things slightly differently from what you are doing/planning.
My advice for this? Let them do it... within reason. If they don't like the idea of getting into a brawling DPS ship then ask what else they can assist with for the situation(s) you have in mind. If what they bring and do on field helps the rest of the fleet, kudos to them and take their tactics/abilities into account for next time.
If they die performing their "pro" tactics and the fleet cannot assist him in a reasonable fashion, rub it in their face and let them know that their demise would not have happened had they stuck with the fleet or "plan."

I personally have been on the receiving end of both scenarios and I must say, both were effective.

Aphex's Twin
Posted - 2010.10.13 15:15:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Jamradar
the weed was too strong, etc etc.


This.

Fennisair
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2010.10.14 21:56:00 - [15]
 

Though I've only had a small amount of fleet experience (mostly in FW), I've gotta say that the FC's that have given me the most confidence are the ones that are clear and precise (read: professional sounding), in their instructions.

Even the repetition of commands like "warp to gate and hold" "hold on gate" for every warp don't really get annoying because you know they are doing it for good reasons.

Those that triple-call one-word commands definitely stand out in my mind because it really makes sure that people don't miss the command or mix it up with normal/tactical chatter. For example: saying "Jump, jump, jump" for going through a gate (or calling "check check check" to cut in with important info). Little things like advising they're doing a fleet-warp (even if you're all expecting it and aligned etc), all give me much more confidence and trust in an FC.

local 81
Posted - 2010.10.15 03:18:00 - [16]
 

Sometimes people make mistakes. Sometimes people do these things on purpose.

I can only speak for myself,

If the FC has an attitude, treats the seasoned players to all the glory, treats the newbs like noobs, makes rude snarky snappy comments, is disrespectful, or full of ego, you bet your ass I will dis obey his orders. and Im not the only one.

If he treats me like a human being in the game to have fun like himself, Then ****, you got yourself one dedicated and motivated player/fleet member.

The FC is the leader, and he needs to know how to manage people. I feel most of the FC's Ive flown with may be great at pvp and getting kills, not all but most. but really suck at moral within the corp and fleet and fail imho at keeping a brotherhood pack within the fleet structure.

If you have fleet members trying, honestly trying to make a change and a difference in their performance, work with them. never give up on them. But if you have kids jerking around, not paying attention, then dont fly with them again and make note of their behaviors.



tagen young
Caldari
The Night Witch
Posted - 2010.10.15 15:48:00 - [17]
 



Where possible keeping fleets out for a reasonable time frame will tend to reduce errors. If you have people in space for five hours you cannot expect them to be as sharp as a two hour roam.

If you fly with inexperienced pilots expect them to get lost, jump in error, forget to align etc sometimes. That happens with veterans too but not so frequently. Razz




Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
Posted - 2010.10.15 16:49:00 - [18]
 

Very good point about the length of roams above. Try to keep them reasonable, or better yet give people a rough idea of how long the roam is likely to be beforehand.

Another thing is training. Our corp operates a "training" roam policy with every new member regardless of age and experience. Our FC's and more experienced pilots will take new guys out on a roam on a 1 to 1 basis just so they can get a feel for how we do things. Usually starting in high sec just to get a hang of basic travel, and progressing on into low- null once they settle in.
This seems to work well for us, even the training roams tend to come out ahead in K:D ratio.

Obviously this is only really feasible in a corp/ alliance setting. But it's well worth the time imho. Same song sheet and all thatWink

Dr Nefarius
Posted - 2010.10.15 19:06:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Fennisair
Though I've only had a small amount of fleet experience (mostly in FW), I've gotta say that the FC's that have given me the most confidence are the ones that are clear and precise (read: professional sounding), in their instructions.

Even the repetition of commands like "warp to gate and hold" "hold on gate" for every warp don't really get annoying because you know they are doing it for good reasons.

Those that triple-call one-word commands definitely stand out in my mind because it really makes sure that people don't miss the command or mix it up with normal/tactical chatter. For example: saying "Jump, jump, jump" for going through a gate (or calling "check check check" to cut in with important info). Little things like advising they're doing a fleet-warp (even if you're all expecting it and aligned etc), all give me much more confidence and trust in an FC.


This

Zacktar
Gallente
Angellic Industries
Posted - 2010.10.16 01:33:00 - [20]
 

We have always gone with jump jump. Saying it twice so there is no mistake. If there is no order to jump the gate when landing it's hold on gate by default. It's all in the discipline. Any serious pvp'ers and fc should drill their comms "lingo" so it's automatic. If you have peeps that just don't get it boot their ass.

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2010.10.16 01:44:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 16/10/2010 01:45:32
Say everything 3 times at least.

After awhile jumping back and forth chasing a fight that isn't going to happen people are more interested in browsing the web and watching TV.

People are only listening for keywords, **** in some fleets half the people don't even speak english.
If your fleet only says keywords once then they'll just jump soon as they hear "jump".

edit: yeah "jump" is "jump jump" at least.


 

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