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blankseplocked When will CCP get serious about macro ratters?
 
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Minmatar Citizen9999
Posted - 2010.10.12 13:06:00 - [1]
 

Dotlan Stats

In case you had any doubts about the extent of macro ratters in 0.0, click that link, go down to "Most active systems (0.0)" NPC kills... The numbers there are startling.

(last 3h) NPC Kills System
1. Map F-HQWV (Perrigen Falls) 7148
2. Map Y-770C (Oasa) 5536
3. Map BNX-AS (Etherium Reach) 3507
4. Map H-MHWF (Oasa) 3380
5. Map NSI-MW (Malpais) 3085
6. Map H-EBQG (Malpais) 3076
7. Map TAL1-3 (Perrigen Falls) 2543
8. Map 1M7-RK (Cobalt Edge) 2280
9. Map QHJR-E (Etherium Reach) 2090
10. Map 04EI-U (Cache) 1973

Now, tell me how you get over 7,000 NPC kills in a drone system in 3 hours, a rate of 2,300 an hour without using macros? That is an average of 38 kills a MINUTE. That is a rate of better than a rat killed every 30 seconds.

The activity in that one system (F-HQWV)is so off the scale that it sort of dwarfs the egregious macroing in the other systems below it.

CCP, for the good of the game you have GOT to start taking macro ratting/mining/ISK farming that is rampant amongst certain entities (no need to name names, the numbers speak for themselves). Macroing at those insane levels HAS to leave regular patterns in the logs that show activity that is far too mechanical to be real players behind the keyboard.

This needs to be taken seriously and is just as big of a threat to this game as lag and other issues. The level of macroing that is going on in the drone regions is to such an extreme level that it threatens to devalue and distort the in game economy.

Not to mention the fact that there is no doubt a lot of this ISK ends up in the hands of sellers and scammers.

baltec1
Posted - 2010.10.12 13:07:00 - [2]
 

Mission systems?

Brian Ballsack
Posted - 2010.10.12 13:08:00 - [3]
 

so have you got any real proof ?

Minmatar Citizen9999
Posted - 2010.10.12 13:16:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Minmatar Citizen9999 on 12/10/2010 13:19:35
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
so have you got any real proof ?


To answer both questions raised:

1. There are no missions anywhere in the drone regions. In fact, all anoms and plexes are drone rats (no bounties).

2. The number itself is proof. Note the lack of systems in other 0.0 regions showing up on the list. It gets even more obvious if you look at the list of activity over 24 hours:

(From Dotlan)


1. Map F-HQWV (Perrigen Falls) 46052 (A rate of 31.9 NPC kills A MINUTE! over 24 hours)

2. Map H-MHWF (Oasa) 19690
3. Map Y-770C (Oasa) 13462
4. Map QHJR-E (Etherium Reach) 12229
5. Map B-II34 (Insmother) 11852
6. Map RJBC-I (Oasa) 11714
7. Map 1A8-6G (Perrigen Falls) 11332
8. Map RD-FWY (Insmother) 10976
9. Map TAL1-3 (Perrigen Falls) 10643
10. Map G-UTHL (Fountain) 9358

Note that only 3 non drone systems are on that list. Only one system (G-UTHL) is located outside the sphere of influence of the "certain coalition" (Fountain). Insmother is controlled by the same entities. That said, however, I guarantee that every one of those systems is being macro'ed.


Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2010.10.12 13:17:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Skippermonkey on 12/10/2010 13:23:39
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
so have you got any real proof ?


Not 'proof', but it IS funny that alot of them seem to be Russian corps at the top of the NPC killed lists

Intersting stats, make of them what you will
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/RD-FWY/stats
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/B-II34/stats

baltec1
Posted - 2010.10.12 13:18:00 - [6]
 

Why don't you go into one of these systems and AFK cloak in it for 24 hours and see whan impact you have?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.10.12 13:19:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Mission systems?


Yeah, those Rogue Drone agents are awesome Rolling Eyes

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.10.12 13:21:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Brian Ballsack
so have you got any real proof ?


What proof would you accept? There comes a point where Occam's Razor kicks in, you know.

Minmatar Citizen9999
Posted - 2010.10.12 13:21:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Skippermonkey
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
so have you got any real proof ?


Not 'proof', but it IS funny that alot of them seem to be Russian corps at the top of the NPC killed lists


There is clearly enough smoke here to warrant a thorough investigation by CCP GM's. As for 100% proof they are using macro programs we can't provide that. It's CCP's job to enforce the EULA, not ours. That CCP isn't investigating and taking action on stuff like this is negligence on their part. I suspect their solution to the problem will be to remove that statistic from the API so Dotlan can't show just how badly they aren't enforcing the no macro policy.

Minmatar Citizen9999
Posted - 2010.10.12 13:25:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Why don't you go into one of these systems and AFK cloak in it for 24 hours and see whan impact you have?


That would be an interesting experiment.

AFK cloak camp each system on the top 10 list and see what happens. My bet is that the activity will move to an adjacent system in each case.

Starchain
Posted - 2010.10.12 13:40:00 - [11]
 

We are blessed by hammer and sickle! Visit drone regione and we will give you a free ticket to clone facility.

Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2010.10.12 13:50:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Minmatar Citizen9999
Originally by: Skippermonkey
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
so have you got any real proof ?


Not 'proof', but it IS funny that alot of them seem to be Russian corps at the top of the NPC killed lists


There is clearly enough smoke here to warrant a thorough investigation by CCP GM's. As for 100% proof they are using macro programs we can't provide that. It's CCP's job to enforce the EULA, not ours. That CCP isn't investigating and taking action on stuff like this is negligence on their part. I suspect their solution to the problem will be to remove that statistic from the API so Dotlan can't show just how badly they aren't enforcing the no macro policy.



CCP might investigate, but afaik there isnt anything on the market that can help ccp say that this one is a macroer and this one isnt. And as such it makes it difficult for CCP to ban them. Because CCP needs reasonable proof before banning someone. And it is not proof that someone is mining 23 hours a day. It is not proof that they dont answer hails either. I have at 2-3 occasions in my time in eve been mining for 17-18 hours! And I dont always answers hail, either because I dont care to or I am busy reading or chatting with someone else in differenc channel. So yes, its difficult to tell.

Still, CCP do the job. Unholy rage is still a good example on that.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2010.10.12 13:54:00 - [13]
 

It would be a bit stupid to macro in the drone regions where you don't get any bounty and need to loot your stuff. Doesn't make that much sense.

So you think there are many kills? Yeah, for one person it is a lot. Not for an alliance with several thousand members. Put for example 20 of them in the system (which is easily done) and you have that many kills, it just need a little organisation, that is all.

And looking at the kill distribution over time it clearly showns NOT an 23/7 activity but some 10-hour activity. If you would bot, you most probably would let the bot run 23 hours for maximum profit.

Everyone always underestimates the effects when people work together on a large scale and organize themselves. 40k kills? No big problem, just run a couple of teams the high end anomalies. Especially after Solar Fleet lost a couple of their supercaps it would make sense that they need to rat a bit more to build some new supercaps.

Sure it could be macros. But the presented date do not support that. Only the GM's could tell, at best.

Starchain
Posted - 2010.10.12 14:02:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Starchain on 12/10/2010 14:04:13
I am living in drone regione and I can tell for sure, it's not a macros. It's a corporation loot ops.

Muul Udonii
Minmatar
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.10.12 14:02:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
Only the GM's could tell, at best.


And that's who you should take your concerns to. i.e. Petition it.

Jane Griffin
Posted - 2010.10.12 14:09:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Jane Griffin on 12/10/2010 14:14:45
meh, in a month and a half i only saw one possible macro ratter in null sec. During which time on days where i was only doing sanctums i could nearly get those number ratting by myself.

Although looking at some of the other data, its odd that three ships jump into system then there is constant npc kills for like 12 hours lol

baltec1
Posted - 2010.10.12 14:14:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: baltec1
Mission systems?


Yeah, those Rogue Drone agents are awesome Rolling Eyes


I didnt lookNeutral

At any rate I now belive the OP is 100% right as every time I go hunting up there I run into nothing but russian marco golems and CNRs.

The badgers however are not AFK and drop onto gates all the timeTwisted Evil

Ejit
Amarr
STD contractors
Posted - 2010.10.12 14:24:00 - [18]
 

Another fine example as to why Russians\Eastern Europeans should be given their own server. Or thrown in with the Chinese.

Jennifer Starling
Amarr
Posted - 2010.10.12 14:27:00 - [19]
 

Macro ratters? You're talking about paying customers!?!

Richard Christy
Posted - 2010.10.12 14:37:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Macro ratters? You're talking about paying customers!?!


End of thread.

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2010.10.12 14:46:00 - [21]
 

It's actually even more impressive kill ratio if you take into account downtime Razz

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2010.10.12 14:58:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Ejit
Another fine example as to why Russians\Eastern Europeans should be given their own server. Or thrown in with the Chinese.


Or Americans like yourself who generalize that all Eastern Europeans are cheaters can either HTFU and STFU or quit eve. (after giving me your stuff)

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.10.12 15:09:00 - [23]
 

Good list. I know what I'm doing tonight.

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.10.12 15:12:00 - [24]
 

Uh, these are all in 0.0. If you think they're using macros go ahead and try to kill them instead of running to teacher.

Jodi Goulsti
No Salvation
War.Pigs.
Posted - 2010.10.12 15:16:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Roosterton
Originally by: Ejit
Another fine example as to why Russians\Eastern Europeans should be given their own server. Or thrown in with the Chinese.


Or Americans like yourself who generalize that all Eastern Europeans are cheaters can either HTFU and STFU or quit eve. (after giving me your stuff)

I like how you bash someone for making generalizations while somehow deducing from the post that it came from an American.

baltec1
Posted - 2010.10.12 15:17:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Uh, these are all in 0.0. If you think they're using macros go ahead and try to kill them instead of running to teacher.


I take it you have never tried to kill these people before.

If they are not running macros that warp them off the second you enter local then you get 3 motherships dumped on you. The second event is rare however as most of the time nobody is there to report you, just the AFK raven.

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.10.12 15:25:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Uh, these are all in 0.0. If you think they're using macros go ahead and try to kill them instead of running to teacher.


I take it you have never tried to kill these people before.

If they are not running macros that warp them off the second you enter local then you get 3 motherships dumped on you. The second event is rare however as most of the time nobody is there to report you, just the AFK raven.


Pretty sure you can't make a macro that warps out when certain people come into local. Something like that would lead me to believe they're real people.

baltec1
Posted - 2010.10.12 15:27:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula


Pretty sure you can't make a macro that warps out when certain people come into local. Something like that would lead me to believe they're real people.


No it is very doable. All you need is the insta-intel tool that is local chat.

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.10.12 15:29:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Professor Tarantula


Pretty sure you can't make a macro that warps out when certain people come into local. Something like that would lead me to believe they're real people.


No it is very doable. All you need is the insta-intel tool that is local chat.


Do you even know what a Macro is?

Paknac Queltel
Baden's Army
Posted - 2010.10.12 15:32:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Pretty sure you can't make a macro that warps out when certain people come into local. Something like that would lead me to believe they're real people.
I dunno, it's pretty easy to scan for a blue box in a preconfigured part of the screen the moment the local list changes.


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