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CCP Zrakor

Posted - 2005.01.04 18:02:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Zrakor on 17/01/2005 13:40:03
Edited by: Zrakor on 04/01/2005 18:04:58
There are currently a few expensive offers out on Tranquility that require an item which is unattainable. Due to additional delays on the next Tranquility patch which will make them attainable, we decided to temporarily allow players to claim these tags through petitioning a GM if the player has an offer requesting them. After the next patch you will no longer be able to do this, and will have to acquire the item the hard way. We apologize for the inconvenience.

The items in question are listed below:

Uleen Bloodsworn's Tag
Zelfarios Kashnostramus's Tag
Shimon Jaen's Insignia
Ixon Kruz's Insignia
Jenmei's Tag
Imai Kenon's Tag
Taisu Wardrake's Insignia
Faramon's Tag
Jarkon Puman's Tag
Dakin Gara's Insignia
Genom Tara's Insignia
Karmone Tizmer's Insignia
Raelek's Tag

Sorja
11th Division
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2005.01.04 18:59:00 - [2]
 

What about you remove those 'collateral requirements' all together ?
When someone has gone through hundreds of missions to gather his LPs, it's a real pain to see we can't accept the offer because we don't have such and such item, and don't know how to get them, or can't afford them because they are more expensive than the reward.

While we are at it, I think the requirements to get only a faction frigate are insane. I've done so many missions I'm completely burn out, and got 30.000 LPs with my highest agent (all agents used to finally be able to talk to a good agent are forever lost LPs and efforts), which is level III.
I heard it is not even enough to get a... frigate ?
That can't be serious, is it ?
It takes me the same efforts to complete level III missions than for BS players to complete lvl IV, but while they can get frigates 5 times sooner, they probably don't care at all and will... just sell them !


The difficulty re-balancing of the fight missions was fine.
Thank you, but the rewards system, IMHO, is just frustrating.

JP Beauregard
Gallente
Pilkington Communications
Posted - 2005.01.04 21:12:00 - [3]
 

Maybe the rewards are frustrating because they are the only reason you're playing?

And please don't go around blaming people with more experience and skill for being able to obtain more desirable rewards. It's a rather silly proposition.

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2005.01.04 22:21:00 - [4]
 

Agreed. After whoring agents for however many weeks or months it takes to get a faction battleship, the last thing I wanna be looking forward to is embarking on some idiot scavenger hunt throughout the galaxy, trying to pry away shiny things from item-hoarding nitwits who will each likely ask me for 20-50 million per tag, even though the offer demands fifty different officer tags on top of the usual billion loyalty points, five Raven battleships, NBA season passes, a backrub, and 1,000 units of Underage Robot Exotic Dancer Slaves, a commodity so illegal that if Concord Customs catches you with them, they cancel your Eve account.

Gierling
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2005.01.04 22:37:00 - [5]
 

I'd personally like to see the collatoral changed.

So that its only Loyalty points that will give you items, but that items could be redeemed for more LP.

So a faction frigate might take 90k loyalty points, but say Kruuls DNA would get you 2000 lp if traded in, an opposing navy midshipmens tag would be worth 250 lp, and an uber rare named commander tag would be like 30k lp.

Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2005.01.05 00:06:00 - [6]
 

I'm all for the tags in LP offers. They drop plenty and I've over 400 sitting in my hangar doing nothing.

I was about to accept an offer today, until I realized there's NO WAY I can acquire 'Metal Scraps' since they're not even on the market and people are charging 50K for Ukomi Super Conductors, which I need 200 of.

Please please please get rid of the pointless collateral item part and ask for LP's and tags.

Elixier
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.01.05 02:01:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Gierling
I'd personally like to see the collatoral changed.

So that its only Loyalty points that will give you items, but that items could be redeemed for more LP.

So a faction frigate might take 90k loyalty points, but say Kruuls DNA would get you 2000 lp if traded in, an opposing navy midshipmens tag would be worth 250 lp, and an uber rare named commander tag would be like 30k lp.


I think this would be a much better system than the current one on TQ.

I havn't had any offers that are really worth it so far, but if i decided i wanted to accept an offer, i can't because they want unbeleivable amounts of illegal items that i can't get to the agents station. The LP should be enough, first we have to work ourselves bored sick of repetative missions, but than after that we must somehow gaver immposible to get items? Whoever thought of this system has an half-assed mined for sure.

Bernard Normal
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2005.01.05 02:58:00 - [8]
 

Perhaps it would be nice to thank the nice Dev team/GMs for making the impossible possible before the next tranquility patch. There are better threads for pointing out the imbalances in the system that I'm sure they're aware of anyway.

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.01.05 07:25:00 - [9]
 

Nice that the tags are obtainable this way now.

I kinda like having to go on a scavenger hunt after getting my billion or whatever loyalty points.

Don't want the ships to be too common after all. Smile

Haratu
Shinie Stuff Salvagers
Posted - 2005.01.05 10:15:00 - [10]
 

lp offers are good as they are... if you got battleships with only a 1000 lp then there would be no point to it.

Thomas Covenant
Posted - 2005.01.05 11:04:00 - [11]
 

Seems to me that with every new content release so far, CCP has increased the level of druggery in the game, i.e pointless and not fun make-work. This to me seems to be a blatant attempt to force the customer base to have a reason to play even if they are not having fun, trading mainly on the fact that they are already heavily vested in and would not give up the game so fast.
But did you noticed how long it has been since we seen a record player broken? Did you notice the number of people that seems on the verge of giving up on the game?

Druggery is not a replacement for creative content. take notice.

Discorporation
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.01.05 11:52:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Nice that the tags are obtainable this way now.

I kinda like having to go on a scavenger hunt after getting my billion or whatever loyalty points.

Don't want the ships to be too common after all. Smile


Tyrrax in a Bhaalgorn.

\o/

capt
Posted - 2005.01.05 12:00:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: capt on 05/01/2005 14:24:09
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
I kinda like having to go on a scavenger hunt after getting my billion or whatever loyalty points.
Don't want the ships to be too common after all. Smile


It is a good thing that the faction ships wouldn't be all that common, but the rarety of certain items that are needed is a bit insane.

Fictional conversation based on current situation:

Tyrrax Thorrk: Hi does anyone have x items of smurgelblasterII?
1 of the 5 persons of the entire EVE community hoarding the item:Sure what is it for?
Tyrrax Thorrk:Great, I got this really cool offer from my agent for a 5 run Navy Raven bpo. Where do we meet to arrange the sale of the smurgles?
1 of the 5 persons of entire EVE community hoarding the item: Whoa, not so fast. I got several people interested in my smurgles, but for you I guess I can make a special price of 150mill a piece. how many did you need?
Tyrrax Thorrk: arghhh gahk, *searching for words, trying to give all those hours, running missions to get this offer,a meaning.....*

Sorja
11th Division
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2005.01.05 13:57:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Haratu
lp offers are good as they are... if you got battleships with only a 1000 lp then there would be no point to it.
For many players, bigger is not better. I fly BS in 0.0 for cash, but what I like to fly on is frigates. I do missions for faction frigates. And as it stands now, the guys who do level IV missions (and level III in battleships Rolling Eyes) will get the frigs and sell them. Yes, sell them.
What about those who do level II in frigates ? or level III in cruiser ? they got the shaft, while they show more skill than many.

Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2005.01.05 14:46:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 05/01/2005 15:49:40
hmmm

Sergeant Spot
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
Posted - 2005.01.05 19:04:00 - [16]
 

Suggestion on Loyalty Point offers:

Currently the offers seem to all be a 'reward item' in exchange for a number of LPs + an assortment of items.

Suggested change: Make it possible to acquire the reward items for straight LPs at an increased amount, or for LPs + stuff at the standard amount.

GoGo Yubari
Veto.
Posted - 2005.01.05 21:06:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
1,000 units of Underage Robot Exotic Dancer Slaves, a commodity so illegal that if Concord Customs catches you with them, they cancel your Eve account.


... must ... stop ... laughing ...

Razz

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.01.05 21:11:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: capt

It is a good thing that the faction ships wouldn't be all that common, but the rarety of certain items that are needed is a bit insane.

Fictional conversation based on current situation:

Tyrrax Thorrk: Hi does anyone have x items of smurgelblasterII?
1 of the 5 persons of the entire EVE community hoarding the item:Sure what is it for?
Tyrrax Thorrk:Great, I got this really cool offer from my agent for a 5 run Navy Raven bpo. Where do we meet to arrange the sale of the smurgles?
1 of the 5 persons of entire EVE community hoarding the item: Whoa, not so fast. I got several people interested in my smurgles, but for you I guess I can make a special price of 150mill a piece. how many did you need?
Tyrrax Thorrk: arghhh gahk, *searching for words, trying to give all those hours, running missions to get this offer,a meaning.....*



Thing is I can just declare war on him and try to bully him into giving it to me. Or hire the Guiding hand to do so, or go find my own item... It's not so simple as just having to pay whatever someone asks for it. Where would the fun in that be ? Very Happy

Kalfu
Posted - 2005.01.05 22:01:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Zrakor
Due to additional delays on the next Tranquility patch which will make them attainable, we decided to temporarily allow players to claim these tags through petitioning a GM if the player has an offer requesting them.


When we petitioin and the GMs don't respond before the offer expires, do we petition that also? If so, do we make a sepearate petition or update the original?

Or are we once again getting screwed over because no-one bothered to think things though before rolling out changes on TQ.





Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.01.06 02:09:00 - [20]
 

Kalfu; I believe you'd petition this as "agent mission can't complete" or something section, GMs respond to those petitions very quickly.

Meridius
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.01.06 06:12:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Thing is I can just declare war on him and try to bully him into giving it to me. Or hire the Guiding hand to do so, or go find my own item... It's not so simple as just having to pay whatever someone asks for it. Where would the fun in that be ? Very Happy


Thats a huge time sink, and as we all know, time is moneyRazz

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.01.06 08:27:00 - [22]
 

Well it's not a time sink if the people who have it cave to the bullying .. Very Happy

Anyways, finding it would be entertaining, I don't mind wasting time and money on something I enjoy doing.

Meridius
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.01.06 09:54:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Well it's not a time sink if the people who have it cave to the bullying .. Very Happy

Anyways, finding it would be entertaining, I don't mind wasting time and money on something I enjoy doing.


I know you doRazz

You have to think about the guys doing agent missions in 0.0 as well though. Doing the missions, getting all that damn lp. I don't think they are going to like having to go to empire just to bully someone into giving im a tag. It's not like that is 100% effective anyway, they can just log on as a diff character ect ect...

I don't mind getting tags, i just want bm's to where i can find them, the spawns can be super hard i don't care. I just don't want some pimple faced collector *** hording them for all for 200mil a piece. **** that ****.

DrPhil
Posted - 2005.01.06 10:52:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Gierling
I'd personally like to see the collatoral changed.

So that its only Loyalty points that will give you items, but that items could be redeemed for more LP.

So a faction frigate might take 90k loyalty points, but say Kruuls DNA would get you 2000 lp if traded in, an opposing navy midshipmens tag would be worth 250 lp, and an uber rare named commander tag would be like 30k lp.


At first glance I thought what a great idea but after thinking abuot it I have reservations. It would be possible then for people to just buy a reward by supplying loads of items to trade in and not do any agent missions. An alternative that I was thinking about was to have 2 requirements. The LP requirement (as it is now) and then each offer could contain a certain number of bribery points (BPs) or something instead of asking for specific things. Each tag, named trade good etc can be traded in to a particular agent for a set number of BP's. The availability of these hard to obtain items may increase over time and therefore the current problems may become less of an issue.

Drofier Ilmatti
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2005.01.06 20:39:00 - [25]
 

Thinking about the system intuitively, it makes a little more sense. Loyalty points are supposed to represent how much your agent feels you are dedicated to him, or his corporation. Might also have to do with how much they like you. Sometimes they decide to offer you something out of the kindness of their heart, and just give it to you (these are offers with no required items, just lp's). The LP loss is indicating they feel they've rewarded you for x amount of dedication. Other offers they will say they have something, but they want something for it. This is a very common practice in most places (including real life); trade. Again, the LP loss is indicating they've fulfilled their feeling of obligation to reward you.

I think it makes a lot of sense wanting something in trade in offers. However, I don't know how much sense it makes asking for some obscure tag from some pirate you've never heard of. First off, why do they care? Second off, if they have a legitimate reason to care they should have some remote idea of where this tag would be.

More general items make much more sense. They want these for a real reason, and these are often less of a hassle to locate aswell.

I definitely think the whole things a little chaotic right now, but I imagine it will get alot better as time progresses. Tags will be more common as they become less new, and perhaps they'll even start appearing on escrow or the market ([argh]especially once more people get their market skills.....like **ME** [/argh]).

Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2005.01.07 01:03:00 - [26]
 

I wish the Lazarus tag was on thet list...It would make my life so much easier Sad

Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2005.01.07 02:02:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 07/01/2005 02:07:27
Originally by: Sorja
What about you remove those 'collateral requirements' all together ?
When someone has gone through hundreds of missions to gather his LPs, it's a real pain to see we can't accept the offer because we don't have such and such item, and don't know how to get them, or can't afford them because they are more expensive than the reward.

While we are at it, I think the requirements to get only a faction frigate are insane. I've done so many missions I'm completely burn out, and got 30.000 LPs with my highest agent (all agents used to finally be able to talk to a good agent are forever lost LPs and efforts), which is level III.
I heard it is not even enough to get a... frigate ?
That can't be serious, is it ?
It takes me the same efforts to complete level III missions than for BS players to complete lvl IV, but while they can get frigates 5 times sooner, they probably don't care at all and will... just sell them !

think getting the LPs is hard? Try the Tags.
You need several of rarest tags, very few around and a good number of people looking for em.
The ones that do have them dont want to sell unless you pay 100mil isk per tag Mad

Shadar Ishaan
Caldari
The Silent Death Corporation
Posted - 2005.01.07 13:57:00 - [28]
 

Can we either reduce the amount of required items to a realistic level or just get rid of them all together?

After doing god knows how many lvl 3 missions (and finally just going to lvl 4 because I couldn't stand getting 171 +/- lp per mission) it's incredibly irritating to get an offer you can't fulfill because the requirements are insane (thousands of drugs you'll never be able to get to the station), because the requirements cost more than the item is worth or because the item requires other agent offer items that results in price gouging.

Neutral

Amaron Ghant
Caldari
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2005.01.08 11:26:00 - [29]
 

I'm still trying to get my head round this whole agent+missions=loyalty points=rewards thing.

You work your backside off for your agent doing an average of 400 missions for 100,000 lp (at level 3 missions)

How does your agent thank you? by offering you the chance to spend up to 10 times the value of the item he will offer you for your loyalty.

Now some of the rewards are quite good. A corpmate got Large laser speciality skill for a really low amount of lp. Pretty good. A lot of the "rewards" however are simply insane.

The whole idea of LP is to reward us for our loyalty to a particular agent. Most of the time I just get to feel exploited.

I'm not going to jump up and down and shout "Devs sort it out" because frankly what's the point? They don't tend to listen that well, and on the off chance that they do listen, they don't often action. Corporation tax anyone? :)

Unfortunately, the last time I struck out for 0.0 to make my fortune I had quite a pleasant pod ride home, so it looks like i'm stuck with agenting for a while yet.

Ahhhh well. At least it beats mining these days.




capt
Posted - 2005.01.08 14:16:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: capt on 08/01/2005 14:17:09
Originally by: Shadar Ishaan
Can we either reduce the amount of required items to a realistic level or just get rid of them all together?

After doing god knows how many lvl 3 missions (and finally just going to lvl 4 because I couldn't stand getting 171 +/- lp per mission) it's incredibly irritating to get an offer you can't fulfill because the requirements are insane (thousands of drugs you'll never be able to get to the station), because the requirements cost more than the item is worth or because the item requires other agent offer items that results in price gouging.
Neutral


Ah there your wrong.

The geniuses at CCP are waaaaaaay ahead of you. There is way to get those tons of illegal goods to the system/station/agent you want. Or at least there will be.....

Originally by: Oveur

Smuggler
- Reasoning: Cause the chicks dig smugglers, especially if they have a ship to show with hidden compartments.
- Special ability: Resistance to customs scanning
- Skills: Smuggling, Indy 5 and Signature Analysis 5 prereq
- Cargo: Much less than an standard indy
- Speed: Faster than an indy
- Slots: Similar to current indies of its race.


link of entire post : click

The only thing that really bugs me is......... It is only an idea, they aren't even working on it yet. They are just brainstorming.
While the **** thing should allready be in the game.

I really can't see the logic in introducing customs who act very severe if I may say so and in introducing tons of iilegal goods. Then you introduce agent offers requiring tons of illegal goods.
Only one important thing they forgot. A way to smuggle those tons of goods in an efficient way. Sure there is the trick with the covert ops frig. But you can't really call that profitable, theres not much you can put in those frig cargo bays is there?
And last time I checked there weren't any smuggling skills or anything available.....

Conclusion: Good idea, but very bad follow up.....




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