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Nina Treml
Posted - 2010.10.11 18:17:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Nina Treml on 11/10/2010 18:20:39
Hello Market warriors!

Today i've experienced something strange (to me at least, but i'm sure it will be stupid to you).
I came back from work and i had a look at evemon: i noticed that my wallet was 300 Millions bigger.
"Wow" i thought, but.. "how can that be possible??"

I didn't put anything that expensive on the market, so i thought it was a mistake.
I logged in and i found that it was real.
Checking the transactions i discovered that i sold a 100MN Microwarpdrive for 300 MILLIONS!

Now: i never putted on the market something like that for that crazy price (i never putted anything worth that much on the market).
So my guess are mainly 2:

1) i made a mistake and putted 300 millions instead of 300 thousands; BUT: there are a lot of more sell orders, so, who in the world want to buy something like that for that crazy price??

2) the buyer made a buy order and HE made a mistake putting 300 millions instead of 300 thousands, so he bought the first sell order for the asked price; BUT: can that be possible? I thought the market always sell you the lowest price, regardless of what order you choose by right clicking it and then clicking on BUY.

Thank you for any clarification you will give me on how this thing works.

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2010.10.11 18:20:00 - [2]
 

1. People do that, its called market scamming. A few people is proficient in that sort of thing, think of it as purchasing a lesson in reading.

2. People do that, its called inability to read.

Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
Posted - 2010.10.11 18:21:00 - [3]
 

It's actually very simple :)


The market works like this. Regardless of which sell order someone buys something from, the cheapest sell order will be used. However, it will use the price the buyer wanted to buy for.

As happened in your case, you had the cheapest 100MN Microwarpdrive on the market, and there was a sell order for 100MN Microwarpdrive at 300million as well. The buyer bought from the 300m sell order, but it used your sell order as that one was cheapest.

(I have a feeling someone will explain this a lot better then me..

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.10.11 18:25:00 - [4]
 

I once made 916 mil from a Y-T8 just like this. I was happy.

Nina Treml
Posted - 2010.10.11 18:31:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Nina Treml on 11/10/2010 18:32:30
Originally by: Riley Moore
It's actually very simple :)


The market works like this. Regardless of which sell order someone buys something from, the cheapest sell order will be used. However, it will use the price the buyer wanted to buy for.

As happened in your case, you had the cheapest 100MN Microwarpdrive on the market, and there was a sell order for 100MN Microwarpdrive at 300million as well. The buyer bought from the 300m sell order, but it used your sell order as that one was cheapest.

(I have a feeling someone will explain this a lot better then me..


WOW Shocked

Your explanation is good, i get it now Smile
Thank you Wink
I feel a bit sorry for the buyer, i never scammed anyone, but it was his fault after all, right? ugh

Shaedyn
Posted - 2010.10.11 19:06:00 - [6]
 

of course it`s their fault. They didn`t notice the glaring, red, warning saying ``purchase this at 3000% of market value!` That is their fault. If your really feeling bad, give back half and be like `This was a 150 million ISK lesson``

MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror
Posted - 2010.10.11 19:22:00 - [7]
 

Riley's explanation is adequate. Sometimes it is helpful to imagine that the sell orders, buy orders, and purchases are these statements:

sell order : Seller is saying "I am willing to sell (n) widgets at a per unit price of nnn.nn ISK each."

buy order : buyer is saying "I am willing to buy (n) widgets at a per unit price of nnn.nn ISK each."

purchase (a/k/a "immediate buy") : purchaser is saying "I am willing to pay nnn.nn ISK for (n) widgets."

sell (a/k/a "immediate sell" or "sell to market") : sell is saying "I am willing to sell (n) widgets at whatever the best market price exists right now."

Obviously the immediate buy and immediate sell are really special cases of the buy and sell orders, but some people understand it better if you treat it specially as I did above.

The Eve marketplace is a broker system. It matches buy orders (and purchases) to sell orders. The match method is: the lowest priced sell order that exists at the buyer's requested station (with the requested minimum quantity). The broker repeatedly consumes sell orders until either the buyer's quantity has been purchased, or until the seller's price exceeds the buyer's bid.

Clicking on an order in the marketplace and selecting "Buy This" *DOES NOT* select that order. It merely defines the item to purchase, the purchase price, and delivery station. The marketplace broker selects the (cheapest) sell orders based on the buyer's bid price, location, and minimum quantity, AND NOTHING MORE. When the broker finds a match, it removes the buyer's bid ISK from the buyer's purchase order (or wallet), transfers that ISK to the wallet of the owner of the selected sell order (less fees), reduces the seller's widget quantity, and delivers the item(s) to the buyer's hangar (or delivery window for corporate orders).

MDD

Biruni Khan
Posted - 2010.10.11 22:14:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Shaedyn
of course it`s their fault. They didn`t notice the glaring, red, warning saying ``purchase this at 3000% of market value!` That is their fault. If your really feeling bad, give back half and be like `This was a 150 million ISK lesson``

It depends on the item and the market, honestly. If there isn't a huge volume traded you'll frequently get crazy numbers like:

Quote:
Warning The price you have chosen is 18793.62% above regional average. Are you sure you want to enter this order?


Despite the glaring red warning, I know I am not bidding nearly 200x the average selling price. I wish there were an option to disable that message. Not only would it save me clicks, it would save the servers from having to make those calculations, too.

Mara Tessidar
Posted - 2010.10.11 23:44:00 - [9]
 

Someone entered a market order for 60,000.01 ISK on an item that I was selling (slightly above market price) for ~6,000 isk. I made 200M yesterday simply because someone couldn't read.

Pytria Le'Danness
Posted - 2010.10.12 09:42:00 - [10]
 

Just do a quick check on the "happy" customer. I've had this happen to me long ago with a 2 day old starter corp member. While a n00b might actually make that mistake more easily than a vet, said n00b would rarely have the millions unless he gained them by less than legitimate needs.

Petitioned it as "suspicious ISK transfer" and shortly after the ISK was gone. But better be poor than be accused of ISK laundering and banned.

Bath Sheeba
Gallente
Another Success Story
Posted - 2010.10.12 16:44:00 - [11]
 

Of course a toon born yesterday does not infer an account born yesterday.


I have several toons that are much younger than my account would indicate and they got lotsa isk from me. Does that make them suspicious? No.

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2010.10.12 16:47:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Nina Treml
i never scammed anyone, but it was his fault after all, right? ugh


Well, I wouldn't call it his fault. He might have really liked that product, as he bought it for that price.

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.10.15 06:10:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Lederstrumpf
Originally by: Nina Treml
i never scammed anyone, but it was his fault after all, right? ugh


Well, I wouldn't call it his fault. He might have really liked that product, as he bought it for that price.


Not usually for that kind of price difference. I had a Russian player once convo me in broken English, trying to take back a buy order he put in for about 500% of the actual item amount.

I told him I didn't ask pirates in low sec to give me my ship back if I was stupid enough to go traipsing through their territory without warp stabs. I think he got the point. Cool

Captain Maggie
Posted - 2010.10.15 06:36:00 - [14]
 

i wonder if there is a way to make moneys on this...

say you see an item that sells for 2000 isk, and there is an odd buy order for 200 million isk. set up an order for 200 million and .01 isk, and also sell one of the item at the cheapest price available. a lot of reasons why it may not work... but once in a while you would hit gold off of people.

i submitted a bug report about it for much the same reason as the op, i got way to much money for something i was selling. the ccp guy said it was probably someone who didn't know the system either clicking on the wrong buy order or trying to transfer money to an alt.

Oni Triad
Posted - 2010.10.15 06:47:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Captain Maggie
say you see an item that sells for 2000 isk, and there is an odd buy order for 200 million isk. set up an order for 200 million and .01 isk, and also sell one of the item at the cheapest price available. a lot of reasons why it may not work... but once in a while you would hit gold off of people.

Lolwut?

Why not [buy item at 2000 > sell item for 200 mil]. Why would you even put another buy order at 200mil and 01 isk? You want to lose 200 mil and 01 isk? I don't get it o_O

Captain Maggie
Posted - 2010.10.15 07:02:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Oni Triad
Originally by: Captain Maggie
say you see an item that sells for 2000 isk, and there is an odd buy order for 200 million isk. set up an order for 200 million and .01 isk, and also sell one of the item at the cheapest price available. a lot of reasons why it may not work... but once in a while you would hit gold off of people.

Lolwut?

Why not [buy item at 2000 > sell item for 200 mil]. Why would you even put another buy order at 200mil and 01 isk? You want to lose 200 mil and 01 isk? I don't get it o_O



i think i'm using the terms wrong... and yeah a duplicate sell order for the same amount would not do anything. my mistake... that's what i get for not proofreading things i say.Shocked

like i say though, its like winning the lottery, happening to have the lowest buy order for an item when someone happens to be trying to buy the highest item. you could make a lot of money, but you would most often lose potential money while people buy off your low orders.

still, i wonder how many market traders received huge amounts of isk this way?

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.10.15 08:04:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Captain Maggie
i wonder if there is a way to make moneys on this...

say you see an item that sells for 2000 isk, and there is an odd buy order for 200 million isk. set up an order for 200 million and .01 isk, and also sell one of the item at the cheapest price available. a lot of reasons why it may not work... but once in a while you would hit gold off of people.

i submitted a bug report about it for much the same reason as the op, i got way to much money for something i was selling. the ccp guy said it was probably someone who didn't know the system either clicking on the wrong buy order or trying to transfer money to an alt.


I think you need to calculate the broker costs for a 200 mil order and then rethink your strategy. ugh

Pytria Le'Danness
Posted - 2010.10.15 09:16:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Bath Sheeba
Of course a toon born yesterday does not infer an account born yesterday.

I have several toons that are much younger than my account would indicate and they got lotsa isk from me. Does that make them suspicious? No.


I disagree. If a day-old toon were to send me huge amounts of money I'd grow suspicious and report it to a GM since I cannot check for account info and where the ISK comes from while a GM can. If everything is fine, great. But it wouldn't be the first time that someone mentioned illegally buying ISK to transfer it to a enemy as an attempt to get him banned.

Christo Fallon
Posted - 2010.10.15 11:52:00 - [19]
 

DUDE!! I had a similar thing happen to me yesterday TWICE!

I was selling a ship for like 710k and someone bought it for 680M completely different numbers so I have a hard time thinking they just missed some zero's.

Then later that day I had had another ship sell and it was like 200k and someone paid 124m for it.

Two different people and prices didnt match up. Strange, there are a bunch of orders for the same items at the station also so I wasnt trying to scam anyone out of their money, but if they were stupid enough or generous enough to give me that much I'll take it.
Needless to say I was expecting like 300m in my wallet but ended up with over 1b for that day. Very Happy

Oni Triad
Posted - 2010.10.15 13:33:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Captain Maggie
like i say though, its like winning the lottery, happening to have the lowest buy order for an item when someone happens to be trying to buy the highest item. you could make a lot of money, but you would most often lose potential money while people buy off your low orders.

You are wrong again, have no idea what you are smoking :). You only need to have lowest sell order, no buy order whatsoever.

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.10.15 15:52:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Oni Triad
Originally by: Captain Maggie
like i say though, its like winning the lottery, happening to have the lowest buy order for an item when someone happens to be trying to buy the highest item. you could make a lot of money, but you would most often lose potential money while people buy off your low orders.

You are wrong again, have no idea what you are smoking :). You only need to have lowest sell order, no buy order whatsoever.


And there's usually someone with an insanely-high sell order already set up. Which means all we get from this thread is to keep .01 isking. Neutral

Benco97
Gallente
Terraprobe Dynamics
Posted - 2010.10.18 11:45:00 - [22]
 

Out of interest, why does the system work like this?
Why can't I specifically choose who to buy from and THEY get my money and THEIR items sell, why is it using this crazy .01 lowest price system?

If I walk into town and buy a loaf of bread from the corner shop, my money goes to the corner shop, not Tesco.

If i'm being incredibly ******ed and this system is a good then then please point it out to me and I will happily admit that I am wrong but right now it seems stupid.

Bernard Schuyler
Posted - 2010.10.18 13:26:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Benco97
Out of interest, why does the system work like this?
Why can't I specifically choose who to buy from and THEY get my money and THEIR items sell, why is it using this crazy .01 lowest price system?

If I walk into town and buy a loaf of bread from the corner shop, my money goes to the corner shop, not Tesco.

If i'm being incredibly ******ed and this system is a good then then please point it out to me and I will happily admit that I am wrong but right now it seems stupid.


Because the corner shop is NOT a broker.

The "Market" in Eve is more like the Stock Exchange. If you want to buy 100 shares of Exxon, you get 100 shares. You don't get them from Tom, ****, or Harry. You get them wherever the brokers acquires them.

The individual traders do not have stalls with goods, you deal with a middleman (the NPC Market). This is why there are Broker Fees... you are paying the NPC middleman for his services matching buyers and sellers.

Benco97
Gallente
Terraprobe Dynamics
Posted - 2010.10.18 13:54:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Bernard Schuyler

Because the corner shop is NOT a broker.

The "Market" in Eve is more like the Stock Exchange. If you want to buy 100 shares of Exxon, you get 100 shares. You don't get them from Tom, ****, or Harry. You get them wherever the brokers acquires them.

The individual traders do not have stalls with goods, you deal with a middleman (the NPC Market). This is why there are Broker Fees... you are paying the NPC middleman for his services matching buyers and sellers.


Ahh, I see!
That was very helpful and informative, thank you very much for explaining that to me.

Grog Barrel
Posted - 2010.10.18 19:26:00 - [25]
 

i got almost the same amount for like 10 t2 torpedos (as i was experimenting some with the market few months ago). I kinda feelt dirty though, as i never intended to scam, which is the reason contacted the buyer and gave him the money back.

I think this should be fixed by CCP. This is, for me, more of an unintended bug (which often provoke profits on random market sellers and not on the one asking for the overwhelming prices) instead of a feature.

Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Posted - 2010.10.18 20:19:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts on 18/10/2010 20:23:02
Originally by: Grog Barrel
I think this should be fixed by CCP. This is, for me, more of an unintended bug (which often provoke profits on random market sellers and not on the one asking for the overwhelming prices) instead of a feature.


This is working completely as intended. You are aware that when you go to buy or sell something, a window pops up with the transaction summarized in all its detail. If you are so inattentive that you cannot read that popup, then by all means, you DESERVE to be separated from your hard earned money.

Originally by: Nina Treml
...putted...



I fear that this word does not mean what you think it means...

The past participle of put is, put.

Putted is the past tense of putt, as in the sound a lawnmower or dirtbike makes, or the thing you do to a golf ball with a putter.

Just poasting to clear that up, as reading the OP was making my grammar nerve twinge.


Refined Gold
Posted - 2010.10.18 20:30:00 - [27]
 

Ya I've had that happen to me as well.. I've also been on the spending side of that as well.

In regards to the red warning sign, I know I've had at least two transactions where I didn't have any kind of warning and everything looked good but some how got screwed...

Just sold a provi for 600k instead of 600mil is a perfect example.. I know it might have shown me a % thingy but still you'd think it'd pop up a warning when your selling that low below market... oh well... live and learn.

Running missions
Posted - 2010.10.19 01:32:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Nina Treml
Edited by: Nina Treml on 11/10/2010 18:32:30
Originally by: Riley Moore
It's actually very simple :)


The market works like this. Regardless of which sell order someone buys something from, the cheapest sell order will be used. However, it will use the price the buyer wanted to buy for.

As happened in your case, you had the cheapest 100MN Microwarpdrive on the market, and there was a sell order for 100MN Microwarpdrive at 300million as well. The buyer bought from the 300m sell order, but it used your sell order as that one was cheapest.

(I have a feeling someone will explain this a lot better then me..


WOW Shocked

Your explanation is good, i get it now Smile
Thank you Wink
I feel a bit sorry for the buyer, i never scammed anyone, but it was his fault after all, right? ugh


dont worry, assume its an isk seller, they were trying to give that person 300mil isk that they bought with RL money but failed

cyndrogen
Posted - 2010.10.19 21:55:00 - [29]
 

I think this is pointing to an obvious answer. The person doing the buying and selling is a bot, a broken bot possibly, the programmer who wrote the macro made an error and it's costing him dearly.

Rasz Lin
Caldari
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
Posted - 2010.10.19 23:53:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: cyndrogen
I think this is pointing to an obvious answer. The person doing the buying and selling is a bot, a broken bot possibly, the programmer who wrote the macro made an error and it's costing him dearly.



no


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