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blankseplocked Bitter vets chime in - is eve going downhill? UPDATE: IT IS!
 
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Rhohan
Minmatar Marauders
Posted - 2010.10.10 17:59:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Bud Johnson
Eve isn't going downhill. The problem is that whiners are constructing a larger hill with their tears.

Easy fix: Instead of typing out that bawww post go play a different game(preferably after giving me your stuff).
this.

Kaaii
Caldari
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
KAAII-NET
Posted - 2010.10.10 18:00:00 - [32]
 



Since 2nd phase of Beta, 2003.

If they rolled it back to 2003 you all would die of frustration. The game has progressed logarithmically in the years following its release.

It has had growing pains

It will continue to do so

Show me a game better than this, with no problems, such a diverse sandbox, and I'll pay your sub.....




Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2010.10.10 18:03:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Kaaii


Since 2nd phase of Beta, 2003.

If they rolled it back to 2003 you all would die of frustration. The game has progressed logarithmically in the years following its release.

It has had growing pains

It will continue to do so

Show me a game better than this, with no problems, such a diverse sandbox, and I'll pay your sub.....







I would love to see all these whiners here in a game where the best ship you could buy would be a cruiser, where getting 10mil was ****ing hard, where there was no functional concord in hisec, and JIP'sLaughing


oh and the best miner was the thorax.

Thrasymachus TheSophist
Posted - 2010.10.10 18:08:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Terra Mikael

Whats up with this ****ing lackluster content? There's a list of combat related problems a mile long, from from hybrids/blasters being less competitive to rockets, to destroyers to unbelievable lag, to, well, you get the picture.

Honestly its like CCP isn't even trying anymore. :****:



They seem to embracing a pile-more-on philosophy. There are certainly marketing studies and justifications, but I also wonder if perhaps the game is so old, the code so huge and unwieldy, that there just isn't anyone left who can tackle the big changes without a code fail-cascade.

If there is *any* truth to my blatant speculation then I certainly hope they consider an EVE 2, built properly from the ground up, with a proper code design. Its a great concept afterall, making ISKies has some entertainment value, and its mighty fun when you can actually get a good fight.

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.10.10 18:10:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
I think if CCP could go back in time there are many things they'd have done differently when making this game, which are now neigh on impossible to change, so they've put all their hopes and dreams into a new MMO they're building using what they've learned from this one.

We'll get trickle down content from this new MMO through Incarna, but aside from that i don't think any more awesome changes are coming to EVE.

The stuff trickling down on us from WoD and Dust will be the corification of the freaking whole codebase.. CCP never wouldn't even have touched this kind of work with a 10 feet pole if there wouldn't be the need for it to get WoD and Dust out of the door and maintainable.
But yeah.. keep sulking, fits you. Razz


I'd have to have put any kind of emotion into it for it to be sulking. Have no plans to quit, just stating what's become pretty obvious to me, and if i do quit it will probably be for WoD, so CCP wins either way.

On the corification thing, Incarna is just going to fetch info from the current game, and run on an entirely different and separate engine. I have my doubts standings and charisma are even going to factor into Incarna much at all, because too many people in 0.0 have zero charisma and bad standings, and if i've learned anything over the years it's that CCP caters to them above all else, even at the expense of the overall game.

mechtech
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2010.10.10 18:11:00 - [36]
 

I think the game's in fine shape (started '05). We really need another expansion on the same quality level of Apocrypha, but from the sound of it Incursion sounds pretty great.

The only thing that I really want changed is to make the value of isk more meaningful. Everything is so cheap now, losing a BS takes about 20 minutes to replace. I chalk this up to everything basically being figured out, which makes most content trivial. Even titans aren't too hard to afford for the elite. If they would just lower mineral yields and moon mineral yields by 1/2 I'd be happy :)

Hanz Landou
Posted - 2010.10.10 18:17:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: mechtech
I think the game's in fine shape (started '05). We really need another expansion on the same quality level of Apocrypha, but from the sound of it Incursion sounds pretty great.

The only thing that I really want changed is to make the value of isk more meaningful. Everything is so cheap now, losing a BS takes about 20 minutes to replace. I chalk this up to everything basically being figured out, which makes most content trivial. Even titans aren't too hard to afford for the elite. If they would just lower mineral yields and moon mineral yields by 1/2 I'd be happy :)


Speak for yourself. 20mins of anomaly farming maybe, but for the proletarian masses running lvl4's a battleship is still at least a few days wages (unless it's a really cheap bs).


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.10.10 18:32:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: mechtech
We really need another expansion on the same quality level of Apocrypha
Nah.

What we need is a non-expansion that does to game functionality what Apocrypha did to content. CCP have claimed that Apoc added more content than just about any patch before it, but it did so at a vast cost in left-behind fixes and bugs. What we need is an anti-Apocrypha: a patch that fixes unimaginable amounts of bugs and gameplay flaws, no matter how much content will have to be left by the wayside in doing so.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.10.10 18:34:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
I think if CCP could go back in time there are many things they'd have done differently when making this game, which are now neigh on impossible to change, so they've put all their hopes and dreams into a new MMO they're building using what they've learned from this one.

We'll get trickle down content from this new MMO through Incarna, but aside from that i don't think any more awesome changes are coming to EVE.

The stuff trickling down on us from WoD and Dust will be the corification of the freaking whole codebase.. CCP never wouldn't even have touched this kind of work with a 10 feet pole if there wouldn't be the need for it to get WoD and Dust out of the door and maintainable.

On the corification thing, Incarna is just going to fetch info from the current game, and run on an entirely different and separate engine. I have my doubts standings and charisma are even going to factor into Incarna much at all, because too many people in 0.0 have zero charisma and bad standings, and if i've learned anything over the years it's that CCP caters to them above all else, even at the expense of the overall game.

You didn't get the full memo then.. corification means to refactor/rewrite all those parts of the core of Eve that can/will and MUST be reused in WoD and/or Dust.
The overlapping of the corified parts Eve and WoD will be using will be the most I guess.. one shard, prob similar under the hood too.
So, I don't think you'll see WoD before Eve is corified, which in return will enable the Devs to tackle the problems on separate code.. not one big clunky mess the code is now.
That's how I understand it anyways.

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.10.10 19:20:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 10/10/2010 19:23:10
Corification isn't even a real word, but if you're speaking of the meaning CCP has given to it, it relates to code in EVE that can also be used in other, separate, CCP products. It's not required they reuse the code because there's any kind of overlap between the products, and it doesn't mean all the code will be reused, most of the code will be as unique as the product, they just prefer to reuse 'battletested' code when they can.

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.10.10 19:36:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: mechtech
We really need another expansion on the same quality level of Apocrypha
Nah.

What we need is a non-expansion that does to game functionality what Apocrypha did to content. CCP have claimed that Apoc added more content than just about any patch before it, but it did so at a vast cost in left-behind fixes and bugs. What we need is an anti-Apocrypha: a patch that fixes unimaginable amounts of bugs and gameplay flaws, no matter how much content will have to be left by the wayside in doing so.
And a pony for everyone.


HarrietMiers
Helljumpers
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2010.10.10 19:40:00 - [42]
 

LOL at all the CCP apologists here.

I guess they don't want to admit just how bad/broken this game has gotten - or they work for ccp.

Either way, yes - 2003 player here. This game has gone to ****.

Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2010.10.10 19:45:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 10/10/2010 19:47:15
Originally by: HarrietMiers
LOL at all the CCP apologists here.

I guess they don't want to admit just how bad/broken this game has gotten - or they work for ccp.

Either way, yes - 2003 player here. This game has gone to ****.


If I did not enjoy the game I wouldnt have been here in the first place! because in oposite to you I dont play or stay with a game that I do not enjoy! My sparetime is simply to valuable to me!

And if you have stayed since 2003 playing a game you dont like, you must really enjoy pain and wasting money.


HarrietMiers
Helljumpers
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2010.10.10 19:46:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: HarrietMiers on 10/10/2010 19:50:26
Pay for the game? Who the hell pays for eve?

It'd be nice if the crippling lag was rolled back - or blasters were worth a damn - or super capitals online hadn't developed - or.... well, you get the idea.

This game was great. It still could be. Until they fix the problems they have created in the past 3 years it's not anymore and you are all fools to suggest otherwise.

Arklan1
Dunedain Rangers
Posted - 2010.10.10 20:01:00 - [45]
 

bout a year and half in game for me. can't say it's gone down hill from my perspective - but i'm certainy here for the potential more then the reality.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.10.10 20:02:00 - [46]
 

Hey look at me, I'm bitter!

baltec1
Posted - 2010.10.10 20:12:00 - [47]
 

Did CCP give out a free 5 days to all of the old bitter vets or something?

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2010.10.10 20:20:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Did CCP give out a free 5 days to all of the old bitter vets or something?
dunno.


if they did, I'm waiting for it cuz I haven't received them yet.

baltec1
Posted - 2010.10.10 20:31:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: baltec1
Did CCP give out a free 5 days to all of the old bitter vets or something?
dunno.


if they did, I'm waiting for it cuz I haven't received them yet.


Guess we have to rage quit firstNeutral

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2010.10.10 20:44:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Bud Johnson
Eve isn't going downhill. The problem is that whiners are constructing a larger hill with their tears.

Easy fix: Instead of typing out that bawww post go play a different game(preferably after giving me your stuff).


I'll disagree. Problems have lingered for far too long to be called anything else but neglect. It's not a building hill of tears, it's a building hill of problems that everyone has to deal with day in and day out.

It's the lack of casual play style in Eve, oh unless you care to mission WC for the umpteenthousandth time. Read that as lack of mission content, not that missioning even new ones approaches anything vaguely resembling engaging and challenging. The biggest challenge in the last 7 years in the mission arena was the bug introduced in Tyrannis where storyline agents were giving Level 5 missions to people running missions using level 1 & 2 agents. The only challenge there was calling in enough friends to do it.

Honestly, aside from missioning and mining there isn't another aspect of the game that doesn't require hours to prep for, assemble items or a fleet and finally implement. Try deploying a POS and maintaining it in a couple of hours a week (read that as casual). Grinding is a requisite of existing beyond missioning and mining. Why are we forced, as casual players, into mind numbing tasks? Why can't we have both engaging casual play and those tasks based on delayed gratification?

Eve needs to evolve. Although aspects have been added it's all more of the same. It's time CCP gives up on Incarna and diverts that developmental effort, if there is any, into fundamentally fixing and/or reworking the game.

As I've stated before, I believe Eve is no longer being developed. It is being maintained. Any new "content" we're getting is merely differing implementations of existing mechanics. PI is the closest thing to an evolving game. But if this is the direction and indication of how CCP is evolving Eve, please, no more, just fix the game and let it ride.

Nareg Maxence
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.10 20:45:00 - [51]
 

What I find annoying is the claustrophobic feel it leaves you with after a while. I know.. Claustrophobic in space? It's a sand-box, with emphasis on box. I'd like it to be a sandy beach with more room to play.

To be more specific:

- Solarsystem boxes. You can only warp to celestials. You can't just go whereever you like.
- Expeditions (both figuratively and also exploration content) are pointless in 0.0. All space is owned by someone. I'd like to boldly go where noone has gone before.
- I'd like some kind of instanced areas that you can explore and actually live in for a while, with stuff to find and shoot and loot. Not closed off areas obviously, open to everyone, if they can find it. Eventually you will dry out the resources and leave, closing the instance or you will be driven out by someone wanting to take over.

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2010.10.10 21:11:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Nareg Maxence
- I'd like some kind of instanced areas that you can explore and actually live in for a while, with stuff to find and shoot and loot. Not closed off areas obviously, open to everyone, if they can find it. Eventually you will dry out the resources and leave, closing the instance or you will be driven out by someone wanting to take over.


Perhaps one day CCP will release a cool system to work with our scanning system. Like create over 5000 systems that you can only get to by scanning out a spatial anomaly or "wormhole". This "wormhole" will lead to unique places with special effects like increased dps or increased range on your weapons and have new challenging NPCs with very good AI. Eventually the complexes there will not re-spawn and I'll be forced to look around. Even more there could be a whole class of ships based on the parts I find in these "wormholes". Man, if only CCP would release something like that I'd sub forever.

And to all the other crybabies, you call the game broken but cannot point to a single change that broke the game. Lag is much better than post dominion, I've been in 500 man fights recently. I own people daily in blaster ships and rockets are getting fixed and you can use a non-rocket ship in the mean time. I have >10 solo kills in 0.0 this week and I'm not even trying. HTFU whiners.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.10.10 21:15:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
It's the lack of casual play style in Eve, oh unless you care to mission WC for the umpteenthousandth time. Read that as lack of mission content, not that missioning even new ones approaches anything vaguely resembling engaging and challenging. The biggest challenge in the last 7 years in the mission arena was the bug introduced in Tyrannis where storyline agents were giving Level 5 missions to people running missions using level 1 & 2 agents. The only challenge there was calling in enough friends to do it.

Shhh... Don't tell this guy about the next expansion, he might be forced to give up his bitterness.

Pentinor
The Dark Horses.
Posted - 2010.10.10 21:17:00 - [54]
 

Eve online...Going downhill since beta.

BrundleMeth
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
Posted - 2010.10.10 21:22:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Kaaii


Since 2nd phase of Beta, 2003.

If they rolled it back to 2003 you all would die of frustration. The game has progressed logarithmically in the years following its release.

It has had growing pains

It will continue to do so

Show me a game better than this, with no problems, such a diverse sandbox, and I'll pay your sub.....







I would love to see all these whiners here in a game where the best ship you could buy would be a cruiser, where getting 10mil was ****ing hard, where there was no functional concord in hisec, and JIP'sLaughing


oh and the best miner was the thorax.
I heard of those days, never saw them. I never would have played myself under those circumstances...

Ditch Pig
Posted - 2010.10.10 21:28:00 - [56]
 

This past week a buddy did a warp to zero, but got stopped 8km from the gate, lost his Jump Freighter. Decided that was the final straw with lag and broken mechanics. Withing 2 days he gave everything away he owned and biomassed his main. I don't expect to hear from him in game again. Sometimes people just get fed up I suppose, it happens...

Forum Guy
Posted - 2010.10.10 21:28:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: HarrietMiers
LOL at all the CCP apologists here.

I guess they don't want to admit just how bad/broken this game has gotten - or they work for ccp.

Either way, yes - 2003 player here. This game has gone to ****.



I kind of agree with this although I only span back to 2005. Only reason I keep playing is there's no other MMO out there atm that I'm that interested in.

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2010.10.10 21:32:00 - [58]
 

Why are always vets bitter... I'm a software developer. I can be bitter too, ya know.Razz

Umega
Solis Mensa
Posted - 2010.10.10 21:50:00 - [59]
 

Patience.

What we have is current/ex WoW players jumping into EVE. Easily spotted by their lack of patiences and need for immediate reward and gratification not brought about by their own actions, but by someone else.. namely CCP giving it to them for nothing other than they exist, they feel entitled. This will not simply disappear, but grow with the growing player base that EVE has had since its inception. And 'explode' to some extent with Incarna, and perhaps Dust.

Some 'piled empty' content is simply building blocks, a foundation towards a more indepth feature. Wormholes for example.. it has been stated that CCP has had the lore and backdrop for EVE for a long time now.. and Incursion is going to build off what Apocrypha started. Much in the same way Tyrannis is a building block to more.

Think PI is a finished product? Come on. Got to have it all right now? Then don't ***** if they have to charge 20-30 USD for each expansion to make that happen. Otherwise it is free.. CCP is still small by gaming industry standards, and providing increased depth to their game rhythmicly without extra purchasing/charging fees. And whats funny about this tho, is some people are already starting to ***** at the notion of CCP making the next step into a larger business.. yet they want more more more from them without them becoming a big company.

Think no game has balance, nerf, buff issues? EVE is the only one? Really? Get over it. No game is perfect, no game will ever be perfect. No player base in any game will be 100% satisfied. And even if EVE's 300k+ subs are say, 50k individual people with multi-accounts.. the amount of people (with alts) posting on the forums vs 50k is a very, very, very small margin to go basing the overall view of a game. The fact it has that many subs.. that continues to go up instead of down over a 7 year span should provide a more realistic answer than what maybe 10 people on the forums wish to dictate and tell you.

Don't like the game.. quit. Like the game.. play it. Shame the forums aren't as much of a knowledge source as they should be.. and more so a way for insecure personalities to feel a sense of worth by unleashing their inner selves onto others. Alert CCP to problems and issues.. cool, thats a good thing. There is actually better ways to do that doesn't involve spamming GD/ships/warfare topics and so on with the equivalant of raging, repeating Hate Mail. Chances are.. using the forums in that manner just gets other counter-points raised that bury the original thread thought anyway.

Impatiences usually results in failure. Shame too many *****es running around that can't own up to it, learn from it, grow and move on to enjoy what is already in front of them.

The Cartman syndrome.. Now now now.

Paknac Queltel
Baden's Army
Posted - 2010.10.10 21:55:00 - [60]
 

Honestly, what I've seen for the last 18 months since I started, EVE has not gotten worse. Though CCP was slipping for a bit in the last few months, they seem to be getting back on-course. Though, being a big company and all, this process'll probably take a while.

What I have noticed is that the forums seem to be a lot worse then they were last year. But that might just be a selective memory...

Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Why are always vets bitter... I'm a software developer. I can be bitter too, ya know.Razz
I'm with ya mate. We who develop what others complain about.. We know bitter.


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