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blankseplocked Taking the bounty system out of pirate hands
 
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chopper14
Posted - 2010.10.10 12:10:00 - [1]
 

instead of just paying whoever kills that bad pirate that ganked your vindicator. Add the bonus of them loosing 10% of their skill points when it happens
make them flashy red to everyone in low and 0.0 untill it is claimed.
make them flashy red to the afflicted's Corp and alliance in any sec untill it is claimed.

This gives the victim and his/her friends the best chance of earning their money and revenge.
While making it unlikley that an alt will be used to knock their main back to the "stone age".
I don't think this will stop their buddies from collecting. Especially if it's a decent bounty I'm just guessing they won't be buddies after.


An alternative system would be to make the amount of skill points to be removed purchaseable say up to 10% would cost up to 1billion isk.
The next 5% would be a billion isk each.
The next 5% trillion each etc.
Making it unlikley anyone would ever loose more than 15%
I for one would pod all of my characters for the next highest trillions bracket.

One thing this would do is finally separate the lions from the *****cats in the pirate realm.
I don't think a wannabe pirate would put a 1,000 isk bounty on his own head just so he can look cool if it meant loosing his skillpoints.
Also it would paint eves criminals into the same proverbial corner as real bounties do for real world criminals.
They would be on the run unable to trust anyone.
It's hard to swallow. Especially if your a pirate but hey it's supposed to be.Shocked

Shocked

DuKackBoon
Posted - 2010.10.10 12:52:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: chopper14
loosing 10% of their skill points when it happens


GBTWOW

cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
White Noise.
Posted - 2010.10.10 13:24:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: cpu939 on 10/10/2010 13:24:44
Originally by: DuKackBoon
Originally by: chopper14
loosing 10% of their skill points when it happens


GBTWOW


this.

i mean the op has to be a a wow player, might i add eve is a sandbox game

Dasubervixen
Posted - 2010.10.10 13:29:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: chopper14
Add the bonus of them loosing 10% of their skill points when it happens

This made me laugh so hard I almost spilled my coffee.


King Pleasure
Posted - 2010.10.10 13:32:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: King Pleasure on 10/10/2010 13:35:47
Originally by: chopper14

Chopper14's stupid idea.



Jesus, didn't think this through much did you?
Well, lets say they implement this, first thing I'm going to do is spend an hour or two (because that's all it would take) knocking your character back down to 0sp.

*edit. Summarized the quote back to the basics and changed a word.

chopper14
Posted - 2010.10.11 04:17:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: King Pleasure
Edited by: King Pleasure on 10/10/2010 13:35:47
Originally by: chopper14

Chopper14's stupid idea.



Jesus, didn't think this through much did you?
Well, lets say they implement this, first thing I'm going to do is spend an hour or two (because that's all it would take) knocking your character back down to 0sp.

*edit. Summarized the quote back to the basics and changed a word.


1. I've never played wow.
2. Just for **** sake Id like to see you put a bounty on my head just to see you back up what you just said. Oh wait I don't have a bad enough sec rating so you can't. Thank god your heads so big it will help offset that giant dam in china. Rocket scientist.

What I'm looking for was ideas for improvment Such as possibly making it so you can only put a bounty on the same person once per year. Or a second bounty stacking penalty. I never sudgested griefing in my design.

I'm willing to bet those who have replied so far would be the ones who would end up on the run if this was implemented. Except this last guy that's deffinitly just a troll.

Now that the ones who are on the wrong side of the law have whine....err..spoken. I'd like to hear from those who want a working bounty system. Miners, missioners, haulers, traders, and possibly even victims.

Actual post are greatly appriciated wether positive or negative as long as they are constructive and back themselves up with the posters reasoning behind their opinion. All trolls will be ignored from here on out.

Thanks for reading my postLaughingLaughing

Sabbott
Amarr
Blood Inquisition
Posted - 2010.10.11 05:34:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Sabbott on 11/10/2010 05:45:40

Back when I was playing UO (Ultima Online) (in 97-99 before it sucked) If you murdered so many people your souls karma would be in debt and you would lose skill if you resurrected and had over 10 murders.

System was kind of like eves sec system, after 5 murder reports you turned murderer/outlaw = red name on screen. and after 7 hours the murder counts would decay 1 at time, once you hit 10 murders before letting it decay it was like 24 hours decay time each and you would become "perma" red = if you resurrected at this point without waiting out timer you would get skill loss. so you'd sit as a ghost for 3-4 days and play on another account, if you went on a klling spree perma red killing 10 ppl a night you'd have to sit in game almost a month to resurrect if you died. with 35 murders

That said, people should have to pay 1mil to report a pirate as a murderer to concord... :)

With clone system & way eve works this won't work, cause how can one have control over your clone if its in a NPC pirate station that condones killing. or justifies it as compassion etc. Why would bountys have anything to do with skillpoints also, and if its in power of those who put bountys , isk gives unfair advantage.. also everytime i die some random noob puts 5k bounty on me..

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2010.10.11 05:51:00 - [8]
 

I made a thread a while back that suggested a cap be placed on bounties at no more than 50 million and when killed, the bounty gets payed out of the bounty head's bank.

cyndrogen
Posted - 2010.10.11 06:50:00 - [9]
 

the whole problem with a bounty is that the character with the bounty can just use an alt to collect the reward.

So not only did he kill a player he also got him to pay again with a bounty.

I don't think this can be fixed in any way. Bounties are pretty useless when you take into account that the player who placed the bounty gets nothing in return. except the kill mail I guess, wow amazing a killmail is not worth millions.

It would be better if the bounty was put in a bounty pool. Every month at the end of the month the bounty is entered into a lottery. The person with the winning ticket gets the bounty pot. No limit to number of tickets you can purchase.

I think this would also motivate people to bounty hunt because at the end of the month they could win billions in ISK from their kills because the more bountys are collected the bigger the pot grows.

A random bounty pool that can be won by a noob or a pro seems fair.



Tray LiSans
Posted - 2010.10.11 07:56:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: chopper14

Also it would paint eves criminals into the same proverbial corner as real bounties do for real world criminals.
They would be on the run unable to trust anyone.
It's hard to swallow. Especially if your a pirate but hey it's supposed to be.Shocked



You have accomplished two impressive feats tonight.

The first was to come up with a group of solutions that are all completely geared towards griefing, and then proclaim that you never suggested griefing in your post.

The second is to have managed to spend all this time playing Eve and still be confused by the nature of the game. It isn't supposed to be hard to be a pirate. Piracy, or any other form of PvP, are the primary focus of Eve. You should accept that before you make any proposals to crack down on pirates. You should also accept that skill points are the one thing that you have never been able to take from someone, barring their own failure to renew a clone, and there is a damn good reason for it.

Luthair StoneDog
Gallente
Diabolus Ex Machina
The Amazing Onjoi and his Educated Rodents
Posted - 2010.10.11 10:25:00 - [11]
 

I have been playing since the beginning of 2004... about 80 months.

You want to, at will, take 8 months of my skill training time away from me because I, or someone like me, blew up your carebear spaceship you spent a week or so getting the cash for?

This is the stupidest idea I have ever seen here.

General Paul
Atomic Heroes
The G0dfathers
Posted - 2010.10.11 12:54:00 - [12]
 

the idea has some merit I think, the problem with bounties was stated in here.

Put a bounty on me and ill sit in highsec and giggle because you cant kill me, that bit.

Removing highsec (downgrading to lowsec) making current lowsec 0.0 and current 0.0 something worse (don't ask me how) would allow bounties to be hunted across all sectors of space without the magic I win button of highsec.

It would also make empire conform to the player versus player part of the game. Miners would need escorts, haulers would need escorts. Things would explode more, the economy would be stronger. No more afk gaming.

Grog Barrel
Posted - 2010.10.11 18:55:00 - [13]
 

bully's beatdown!

chopper14
Posted - 2010.10.12 04:22:00 - [14]
 


You have accomplished two impressive feats tonight.

The first was to come up with a group of solutions that are all completely geared towards griefing, and then proclaim that you never []suggested[/b] griefing in your post.

The second is to have managed to spend all this time playing Eve and still be confused by the nature of the game. It isn't supposed to be hard to be a pirate. Piracy, or any other form of PvP, are the primary focus of Eve. You should accept that before you make any proposals to crack down on pirates. You should also accept that skill points are the one thing that you have never been able to take from someone, barring their own failure to renew a clone, and there is a damn good reason for it.



Originally by: Luthair StoneDog
I have been playing since the beginning of 2004... about 80 months.

You want to, at will, take 8 months of my skill training time away from me because I, or someone like me, blew up your carebear spaceship you spent a week or so getting the cash for?


Starting from the top.

Yes I have played eve for quite some time now and the bounty sytem has never worked, and I've always wanted to see it fixed.

I can only imagine that ccp wanted it to work too but; like so many things you can't always see the exploits (collecting your own bounty) until after they happen.

There is only one way to stop people from cashing in on their own bounties. And that is by making them give up somthing tangable, skill points.

I'm fully aware of the sandbox and that eve is based around fleet based pvp.

I am also aware that they are looking for ways to get players into low sec and 0.0

I think this bounty system will help push the best players into the deep end of the swimming pool making room for the younger player in the shallow end for newer pvp'rs.

Instead of the current approach where low sec gates are camped 24/7 by some of the oldest players in new Eden. The equivalent of plucking a baby from the kiddypool and chucking them into the deep end.

I say it would "help" because there are plenty of ways around getting a sec status low enough to have a bounty placed on your head.

Most high sec gankers use this to mantain a high enough sec rating to continue ganking in high sec already.

Luthair stonedog, if you would have read above you would have seen that I was open to balancing and ideas from the beginning.

The numbers I plugged in were only for explanitory purposes..
I never saw myself (godlike) standing over ccp telling them adzactly how many skill points per isk were to be removed, No.
I was using round numbers to help paint the picture in my mind as clearly as I could for anyone who would see it.
Not so they would turn 4yrs old and start rolling on the floor, but so they had a clear idea, that those interested in a working bounty system could improve and build on.

The rudness of you post aside you brought to light a few actual concearns I was glad to talk about and if you'd like to continue in a constuctive manner then please do, I would appriciated it.

Butt.. If you hit me with the emo-rage cannonns again I'm afraid I will just have to ignore you for both of our sakes.

To end this post I will point to some facts.
1. If you don't upgrade your clone you loose skill points.
2. If you don't eject from your t3 you loose skill points.
3. Loosing skill points is not a new shocking idea, and I'm sure the amounts of skill points lost in 1&2 would be a great place to consider putting the amount of bounty skill point losses at.

Thanks for reading and responding to this post the ideas comming in are very good so far.

Let's go forward by proposing a tweak.
How would it change things with this system if once a pirate was podded his/her negative sec status was raised high enough that he/she couldn't have another bounty on their head withought commiting another crime?

On that note: please continue.Laughing

chopper14
Posted - 2010.10.12 04:50:00 - [15]
 

After reading my swimming pool anology I have thought of another possible tweak.

How would it change things with this skill point based system if the bounties weren't claimable in 0.0?
I dont even know if it's possible to make it happen but what if?

It would deffinitly give them an added incentive to stay in big boy space. It would also give them a safe haven from wouldbe bounty hunters.

I think a decent ballance to throw in might be to make it possible to raise your sec rating high enough to lift your bounty.
in this case you would basically be pardoned and the money on your head would go back to the person who put it there.

P.S.
Anyone paying close enough attention and, or who has read the majority of my post in the forums will have realized by now I am not on the side of the pirates or the care bears, I am however always on the lookout for ways to make eve even funner.
I have no intention of ending crime in eve.
I just want to restructure it.


ChoppsWink

Yavanna Akallabeth
Posted - 2010.10.12 06:07:00 - [16]
 

NPC bounty hunters only attack player with 1 Million+
The higher the bounty the meaner the Bounty Hunters
Only in hi and low sec, but in low sec the lower the sec the meaner the bounty hunter have to be before they would go there.YARRRR!!

Luthair StoneDog
Gallente
Diabolus Ex Machina
The Amazing Onjoi and his Educated Rodents
Posted - 2010.10.12 07:18:00 - [17]
 

First of all. Learn to quote.

I had no idea what you were quoting anybody as saying until I picked that impenetrable mass of text (that you'd apparently attributed entirely to me) apart.

I don't think it's rude, or emo rage, to suggest that robbing players of nearly a year of training time every time you feel like putting a bounty on their heads is a stupid, deeply flawed idea.

This simply cannot be done, in any way shape or form.

You have kill rights when somebody ganks you mate. You can hunt them down and kill them anywhere you like, at no penalty. You just have to be clever about it. You can have your revenge. Very Happy

In the other places you can lose skill points, the maximum loss is I think one level from a single skill. Even if you get podded with no clone, you still don't lose huge amounts of sp. Yet with your idea, people could all say "Oh, we don't like that guy with the negative sec.... lets put a bounty on him again and again until he has no sp left."

What a terrible idea.

I have a counter proposal. This guy should spawn in low sec in his most expensive ships with a huge "kick me" beacon over his hull.


Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.12 07:18:00 - [18]
 

I don't really like the idea of being able to make enemies lose SP (even if you can prevent by staying positive sec). However I love theorycrafting so I'll add a couple ideas.

IIRC the current amount of SP lost(in t3 or no clone situations) is not a % amount but just 1 lvl from your highest rank skill. I think this would work better than a % amount.

Also I thought you could link the bounty to the clone cost. As in you will only lose SP if the bounty is higher than the cost of your current clone. You could even allow pirates to prevent the SP loss by investing in higher cost clones.

Korg Leaf
Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors
0ccupational Hazzard
Posted - 2010.10.12 12:03:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: chopper14


To end this post I will point to some facts.
1. If you don't upgrade your clone you loose skill points.
2. If you don't eject from your t3 you loose skill points.
3. Loosing skill points is not a new shocking idea, and I'm sure the amounts of skill points lost in 1&2 would be a great place to consider putting the amount of bounty skill point losses at.




1&2 do not equal 10% of your skill points, 1 only takes away a certain amount of your longest skill trained so far (trust me i lost drone interfacing 5 cause i wasnt paying attention) and 2 only loses sp from the t3 skills if im not mistaken, all of which are level 1 skills.

Marchocias
Posted - 2010.10.12 12:19:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Marchocias on 12/10/2010 12:21:49
Chopper... there are better ways of making a working bounty system... for example:

You keep the current rules for allowing bounty to be posted, and then add a new feature to all concord stations. Every bounty hunter has to go to a station, where a list of targets and bounties is available. He can then pick a number of contracts to request (perhaps a skill to increase maximum simultaneous contracts), and the original poster of the bounty can then choose to accept or reject his application.

It is then down to the original poster to make sure that the hunter isn't an alt of the target. He might still get scammed, but if that happens it was his own fault for accepting.

You can then specify some terms to the contract, such as a bonus for podding, and maybe a bonus for specific ship types.

Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2010.10.12 14:02:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Marchocias
Edited by: Marchocias on 12/10/2010 12:21:49
Chopper... there are better ways of making a working bounty system... for example:

You keep the current rules for allowing bounty to be posted, and then add a new feature to all concord stations. Every bounty hunter has to go to a station, where a list of targets and bounties is available. He can then pick a number of contracts to request (perhaps a skill to increase maximum simultaneous contracts), and the original poster of the bounty can then choose to accept or reject his application.

It is then down to the original poster to make sure that the hunter isn't an alt of the target. He might still get scammed, but if that happens it was his own fault for accepting.

You can then specify some terms to the contract, such as a bonus for podding, and maybe a bonus for specific ship types.


See this is an idea I could support, has a nice twist to it and still allows for the social engineering and hilarious mistakes that EVE is famous for. OP, your idea is the biggest pile of arse I've ever read, learn from this man.

Drako darkneer
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.12 18:52:00 - [22]
 

I'm not sure I understand all that's been said here but, I'm new to the game and although I haven't fallen for it I've seen many a can thief. Now jet can mining for whatever reason has been made, as part of the game mechanic, a dangerous business and I understand this. (don't agree with it but understand it none the less) Back to my point there are those that will come along and steel your can and run off home. No problems with this its part of the game, annoying but part of the game. But then there are those that abuse the system and go to noob area's steel the stuff outa cans and put it in a can of there own in the hopes that the new defenseless toons will take the items back so they can attack them, usually killing them... When I first started playing and discovered bounties I used to post 100,000 a day to the people's heads that were picking on noobs this way until someone cashed in the bounty then I got to thinking that I was just throwing away money because they could get there friends to kill them then just split the bounty. So if something could be done to increase the penalty for being bounty killed I'd be all for it. I think the highest one of those bounties ever got was 1,000,000 before it was cashed in. So if they hopped in a starter ship and had there friend blow up that ship they'd have gotten away with 500,000isk each and been rewarded instead of penalized :P

Ava Starfire
Minmatar
Teraa Matar
Posted - 2010.10.12 21:35:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: chopper14


1. I've never played wow.
2. Just for **** sake Id like to see you put a bounty on my head just to see you back up what you just said. Oh wait I don't have a bad enough sec rating so you can't. Thank god your heads so big it will help offset that giant dam in china. Rocket scientist.




You seem sort of slow...you propose changes you would be unaffected by, and then commence owning yourself while trying to act tough. Hrmm. Carebear rage, detected.

PS My sec status sucks, and I have a bounty. Please, come collect it.



 

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