open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: EVE and ShaderModel support Episode II
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6

Author Topic

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2010.10.08 23:36:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: ForumWarrior
Edited by: ForumWarrior on 08/10/2010 23:16:55
Welllll.....****.

Sucks to be a broke-ass newlywed college kid in Q2, I guess.

Edit to add: Not upset with CCP, perfectly reasonable change, will get a new card in time. Just...limited budget is limited. I already don't pay to play :p

I'm not very tech-oriented anymore, honestly. Can anyone recommend a few super-cheapy cards to clear the cutoff?


---------------------------
CCP Shader Model 3 checker
---------------------------
Your graphics card:
NVIDIA GeForce GT 220
Supports Shader Model 3.0
---------------------------
ОК
---------------------------

Very low-budget, and run high shaders good, if played in single window on single monitor.
you can even get a 8800 for dirt cheap prices.

even cheaper than a GT 220.

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.10.09 00:40:00 - [92]
 

My 6800 Ultra is compliant on my media PC in the den. Sweet, can still play from the couch :) All 4 comps in my house will be fine. Good to see eve moving forward.

For the people wanting to force AA and on an nVidia card, you can do it through the advanced settings in the graphics driver. I used to do it and EVE looked great, but the card would get pretty warm (~82C), even with HDR disabled.

It's a shame there are still a lot of people using windows XP 32 bit. I'm also disappointed in MS for releasing 7 32bit to the desktop. 64bit, DX10 > needed to be the bar they set for graphics and coding. They have still done well with making it backwards compatible so at least these two criteria could have been the precedent set for this release of Windows. Mac has been 64 bit for years.


Joseph SaintJohn
Posted - 2010.10.09 01:01:00 - [93]
 

I agree with the spec. change , except for an issue I saw in a reply that was not expicitly discussed by the CCP developers. In large fleet battles , most players turn off the animations to decrease lag. Every step CCP has made "forward" seems to make lag worse.

The biggest increase in lag I have seen was when CCP discontinued support for "legacy" systems.

I am certain , well as sure as I am that the sun will rise in the East , that with this change (dropping shader 2.0) support..... CCP will make lag more of a problem.

Joe

Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
Posted - 2010.10.09 01:07:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: TheLostPenguin
Originally by: Solbright
I vote for a non-textured option for both running on old kit and fleet work.

This has the side benefit of not demanding new art every time there a revamp. :)

So basicly you want the "classic" client back running old low res gfx

No. I don't want any texturing at all. The classic client had a full set of textures in it.

Texturing is entirely unneeded fluff that, as CCP have said many times, takes much work to update.


Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.10.09 01:18:00 - [95]
 

You don't need models even.
The brackets are pretty enough.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2010.10.09 02:09:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Elhym
Originally by: Elojs
*Idjits*


Jumping on this "Games are not the right hobby for you" bandwagon. Maybe you should try Runescape? Or perhaps Ragnarok Online. Or, I don't know, put aside a few dollars per month until the upgrade to simply buy a new video card that is dirt cheap.


What about the rest of his hardware? If his computer is old enough, the CPU, RAM, motherboard and so forth might not be able to function well with a modern video card, or even a slightly antiquated one.

Ordais
Posted - 2010.10.09 02:28:00 - [97]
 

Well....i expect native AA support and more fluff then, if you go 3.0
ATM your grafic-effects are an understantement to say the least.

NeoShocker
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.10.09 04:09:00 - [98]
 

Edited by: NeoShocker on 09/10/2010 04:11:51
One of my SLI 8800GT card died 4 months ago. Onto the single, and that card died few days ago. 3 years of service and it did well. Currently serving is the recommisioned Geforce 6200 LE from retirement storage after the last 8800's death (both cards underwent oven surgery, and each card recovered temporarily for 2 months). After finally getting necessary funds, now to recruit the Evga GTX 470 into service on ... Monday. :<

Then I'm all set for better gaming than ever and improved eve-o experience! But that won't happen until CCP add in AA support rather than relying on graphics drivers >:O

Drifnir
Mnemonic Enterprises
Posted - 2010.10.09 08:34:00 - [99]
 

I use my netbok to change skills when i'm on the road, and it's Intel 945 does not support SM 3.0.

So, either i upgrade or you make it possible to change skills via some other tool, like EveGate perhaps?

Vak'ran
TUIG Inc.
Posted - 2010.10.09 10:06:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: Elojs
Stuff



If you can't afford this but you can afford to shell out $15 a month for EVE (or the time to play it enough to afford the gtc's)...

As people have said before, gaming may not be the best hobby for you.


He would also need this to get it into his laptop...

Learn to read.

And another pre-emptive learn to read for when you decide I am defending him.

Wengole
Red Sky Morning
Posted - 2010.10.09 11:23:00 - [101]
 

SM3Checker.exe runs on Wine (1.3.3) and reports my laptop's 8400 GS supports SM3.
Very Happy

Chibisuke
Gallente
Children of Avalon
Posted - 2010.10.09 17:21:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Chibisuke on 09/10/2010 17:24:38
did you guys ever think of netbook users and stuff?

my half year old netbook - which is state of the art btw. - only support shader model 2...

eve works fine on it for now, and I'm not going to buy another one just because eve is going to discontinue support.

So if you going to upgrade to SM3, only if you release a slim client or something to support it, otherwise I'm going to bomb support until I can play again ;).

Originally by: Drifnir
I use my netbok to change skills when i'm on the road, and it's Intel 945 does not support SM 3.0.

So, either i upgrade or you make it possible to change skills via some other tool, like EveGate perhaps?


yup.... comeon ccp, release slim client.

Rho Legate
Posted - 2010.10.09 19:35:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Chibisuke
Edited by: Chibisuke on 09/10/2010 17:24:38
did you guys ever think of netbook users and stuff?

my half year old netbook - which is state of the art btw. - only support shader model 2...

eve works fine on it for now, and I'm not going to buy another one just because eve is going to discontinue support.

So if you going to upgrade to SM3, only if you release a slim client or something to support it, otherwise I'm going to bomb support until I can play again ;).

Originally by: Drifnir
I use my netbok to change skills when i'm on the road, and it's Intel 945 does not support SM 3.0.

So, either i upgrade or you make it possible to change skills via some other tool, like EveGate perhaps?


yup.... comeon ccp, release slim client.


Please don't release a slim client I would prefer those people who would haveto code and update this to be working on the full client, game requirements increase its not our fault that your netbook was badly future designed sm3 is 5-6 year old standard.

Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
Posted - 2010.10.09 20:46:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
... We also believe EVE players to be more technologically advanced than the average gamer. Which I don't think is an unreasonable assumption :)
You're right, I am more technological advanced...Wink
My computer however is not......Shuttle Inc FN85 motherboard (2004), AMD Athlon 64 3200+ CPU (2004), 2 gig DDR (2008), NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 512 MB (2006), 80-286 case (1984, 1.2 mm steel tower 64 cm high with two 18 cm case fans.....), screwed together Minmatar style...Cool
And yes, there really is duct-tape inside! (and parts from 6 different PC's, a bicycle and a Miele dishwasher.....Shocked)

But the most imported thing is, it runs EvE, and will still do so after this (good!) change.

DanjSmith
UoH Eve Corp
Posted - 2010.10.09 21:52:00 - [105]
 

Desktop is more than fine for this, as is my netbook which is sm4 ready even. Will be good to see what CCP bring out in terms of visuals with this move.

Kolatha
Posted - 2010.10.10 05:02:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: gigitrix
ReCAPTCHA is used by millions, including facebook, so if people could crack it with OCR or whatever we would know about it.

Recaptcha Busted
It is designed to give as much security as possible while maintaining human readability, therein lies its biggest vulnerability. It slows down the bots, it doesn't stop them, although slowing them down is still a good thing.

Back to main topic, I came here expecting a solid wall of "CCP is teh suck" but instead just see mostly a whole lot of "No problem here, carry on". Could it be that the Eve player base is maturing?

Be nice to see what the new shinys they create with the new SM.

ihcn
Posted - 2010.10.10 09:46:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Joseph SaintJohn
I agree with the spec. change , except for an issue I saw in a reply that was not expicitly discussed by the CCP developers. In large fleet battles , most players turn off the animations to decrease lag. Every step CCP has made "forward" seems to make lag worse.

The biggest increase in lag I have seen was when CCP discontinued support for "legacy" systems.

I am certain , well as sure as I am that the sun will rise in the East , that with this change (dropping shader 2.0) support..... CCP will make lag more of a problem.

Joe


You have no idea what lag is, just admit it. FPS drop is not lag.

Borgholio
Minmatar
Quantum Industries
Prime Orbital Systems
Posted - 2010.10.10 17:55:00 - [108]
 

Well, looks like I gotta buy a whole new laptop if I want to keep using EVE while I'm on the road. *glee*

Moni Toimikone
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.10 18:28:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Chibisuke
Edited by: Chibisuke on 09/10/2010 17:24:38
did you guys ever think of netbook users and stuff?

my half year old netbook - which is state of the art btw. - only support shader model 2...


Nobody cares that your netbook, that is clearly not made for gaming can't run SM3.

Elysarian
Minmatar
Elysarian Corp
Posted - 2010.10.10 22:31:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: NeoShocker
Edited by: NeoShocker on 09/10/2010 04:11:51
One of my SLI 8800GT card died 4 months ago. Onto the single, and that card died few days ago. 3 years of service and it did well. Currently serving is the recommisioned Geforce 6200 LE from retirement storage after the last 8800's death (both cards underwent oven surgery, and each card recovered temporarily for 2 months). After finally getting necessary funds, now to recruit the Evga GTX 470 into service on ... Monday. :<

Then I'm all set for better gaming than ever and improved eve-o experience! But that won't happen until CCP add in AA support rather than relying on graphics drivers >:O


Unreal... Pretty much the same thing happened to me - one of my sli 8800GT cards died a few weeks ago, I've been running with a single one since.

I'll be installing a GTX460 tomorrow :D

CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2010.10.11 07:24:00 - [111]
 

Edited by: CyberGh0st on 11/10/2010 07:26:07

Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: RiotRick
Edited by: RiotRick on 08/10/2010 09:54:26
Shader Model 3.0 as minimum seems like a sensible requirement. Even my work laptop has a shader model 3.0 card (ati x1350).

But.... I qoute:

"Not only is this needed for EVE to look amazing"

Will we get anti-aliasing support then?




Since EVE uses HDR, it can't *naturally* use anti-aliasing at the same time. This is due to a fault in DirectX 9. There are various hacks out there which can attempt to force HDR+Antialiasing at the driver level, but it isn't officially supported and frequently stops working whenever you upgrade your video driver. In fact, nHancer - the most commonly used tool for forcing HDR+Antialiasing - no longer works with the current nvidia drivers (and in fact hasn't worked for months).

If CCP wanted EVE Online to have HDR+FSAA, they would essentially have to drop DirectX 9, and give us that DirectX 10 client they have been promising us for years. Except now it would be better for them to skip straight to DirectX 11, since Vista is terribad.


Give an option to choose between the 2 or make a poll to replace HDR with AA, I am sure most players prefer AA over HDR, I mean look at the minmatar stations, they are awfull without AA.

I don't even run HDR, I don't see how it improves my graphics at all.

Kayl Breinhar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.10.11 07:47:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Golden Gnu
How many people will be affected by this...?

Very few people in North America, Australasia, and Western Europe, maybe - but I'm sure there are some in Eastern Europe and Russia who might still be using SM 2.0 cards.

I would be a little more forthcoming with this notice so they have time to budget and prepare.

Zeimanov Kalzumaan
Haruspex Industries
Posted - 2010.10.11 12:04:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Zeimanov Kalzumaan on 11/10/2010 12:05:40
Sucks to not be able to do market stuff on my crappy work PC but meh.....

We had advanced warning this was coming - I cobbled enough money to get a new SM4.0 setup because it was obvious this was going to happen. CCP spending developer time on fixing problems with the game has to be better than trying to support legacy cards.

All good CCP - though a way to do skill changes and market transactions through evegate would be nice.

Hawk TT
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Posted - 2010.10.11 12:20:00 - [114]
 

I would agree with you, but I live in Eastern Europe, in one of the poorest countries in terms of "standard of living".
Even in EE, a gamer could afford upgrading his/her video card (two possible options):
1. PCIe ATI HD 5450 - 47.50 USD - Shader Model 5.0
2. AGP ATI HD 3450 - 58.50 USD - Shader Model 4.1

I know that some people would like to play EVE on their netbooks / laptops, but hey - playing games on a laptop / netbook is a LUXURY and will be, at least until AMD Fusion / Intel Sandy Brdige parts become available in 2011!

Very few high-end mobile devices have the power to run any DirectX game, and I am not talking about Facebook / Flash games...

IMHO even if 15% of the players still use SM 2.0 video cards (and I doubt that the number is higher than 8-9% now), they represent distinct minority and if we stick to certain generic democratic principles, it would be crazy if CCP has to stop the technological progress of EVE, because of this!

Originally by: Kayl Breinhar
Originally by: Golden Gnu
How many people will be affected by this...?

Very few people in North America, Australasia, and Western Europe, maybe - but I'm sure there are some in Eastern Europe and Russia who might still be using SM 2.0 cards.

I would be a little more forthcoming with this notice so they have time to budget and prepare.

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2010.10.11 15:28:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Nova Fox on 11/10/2010 15:32:29
First off,

They're giving you a good 8 months to go get your upgrade, if you cannot save enough money for a bones pc or a junkertop in that time maybe you need to re-evaluate your economic situation instead of worrying about not being able to play eve.

Second off,

You all had an extremly very fair warning a year ago when they dropped shader model 1 support. And thanks to public outcry but a good 8% at the time shader model 2 was kept, many folks did see it was time to move onto bigger and better hardware and which is why that the sm2 group is probably floating around 1-2% also EVE already did a survey once. found out that like only 300 players had shader model one when they dropped it, players still managed to find work arounds that let them change skills at least. So if you wherent saving for one then you should be saving for one now. 5$ a month will net you a really nice and very recent video card able to fit in most computers by the time the need for it comes around 20$ a month and youll have a decent low end but functional laptop for playing, 50$ a month and well you should have no probelsmw ith getting something that was top of the line as of today by the time that expansion launches.

I highly recommend CCP to continue to HARP on this fact that SM2 will be dropped, put constant reminders because from what i seen in this thread so far everyone seem to fogot the shader model 1 support drop.

and wtf about playing games on netbooks? they mobile work station and basically a slightly overprices electronic notepads with internet connection which just happens to be cheaper than an Ipad. Lowest bidder built would garantee that most games cannot and will not play on them and the companies who build them are not obligated to design them so.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.10.11 16:37:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Chibisuke


my half year old netbook - which is state of the art btw. - only support shader model 2...


This statement is a contradiction in terms. If it was "state of the art" it would support SM 4, at the very least. SM3 has been around since 2004 - how state of the art can you really be with technology that's pushing 8-10 years old inside your machine?

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2010.10.11 18:53:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 11/10/2010 18:55:47
Is there a reason to continue supporting ShaderModel 3.0? I can't imagine there are too many out there using that either. SM 4.0 cards are dirt cheap, less than $50.

Originally by: Chibisuke
did you guys ever think of netbook users and stuff?

my half year old netbook - which is state of the art btw. - only support shader model 2...


The $400 netbook that I purchased a couple months ago does SM 4.0.

Rhok Relztem
Caldari
CGMA Synergist Syndicate
Posted - 2010.10.11 20:41:00 - [118]
 

Well, time for me to stop my damned procrastination and build my new system. Embarassed When my old system bit the dust about 3 years ago, I made do with my 17" Dell laptop which is a little over 4 years old but is running a Mobile Intel 945 Express chipset which is not SM3 compatible. ugh Due to RL issues, I've been putting off building a new system (I custom-build all of my systems, always have) but I guess it's time now. Thanks for the kick in the pants CCP.

Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Posted - 2010.10.11 21:37:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: Serenity Steele on 11/10/2010 21:38:02
Thanks for the considerable heads-up on the replacement of the card, and particularly the application to test it!

I'd be surprised if this effected many people in Apr-Jun 2011, considering my card is almost 2 years old and supports Shader 3.0.

Joseph SaintJohn
Posted - 2010.10.13 05:24:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: ihcn
Originally by: Joseph SaintJohn
I agree with the spec. change , except for an issue I saw in a reply that was not expicitly discussed by the CCP developers. In large fleet battles , most players turn off the animations to decrease lag. Every step CCP has made "forward" seems to make lag worse.

The biggest increase in lag I have seen was when CCP discontinued support for "legacy" systems.

I am certain , well as sure as I am that the sun will rise in the East , that with this change (dropping shader 2.0) support..... CCP will make lag more of a problem.

Joe


You have no idea what lag is, just admit it. FPS drop is not lag.


I don't know what you mean by lag, but I am not referring to a FPS drop. I am talking about taking 3 minutes to jump into a system if you are in even a moderately large fleet. Or how long it takes to "load grid" after a jump during a fleet fight. I mean hiding brackets and turning off animations and turning off auto-cycling on your guns in a desperate attempt not to be "killed by lag" , even after your ship is "in warp". In PvP fights , shiny graphics don't matter , the response time of the nodes on CCP'S servers to the "calls" from my client do.

If you do not see the drop of "legacy support" before and the dropping of shader 2.o support as anything other than a way for CCP to save money , you are hopelessly naive, or you have never been in a large fleet fight, or tried to buy something in Jita on a Sunday night. Maybe you believe the "shiny" graphs showing how much the "call response" improved after the "character node" was added.

Implicit in my post is the idea that in a complex environment the effect of a single change should be unpredictable. My personal bet is that two things happen: CCP saves money, and "lag" gets worse.

Joe


Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only