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blankseplocked Another solution to the AFK cloaker "Problem"
 
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EdwardNardella
Capital Construction Research
Posted - 2010.10.07 01:06:00 - [1]
 

Make active cloaking devices remove you from local. If this is overpowered (I suspect it is) then make it so only covert cloaks remove the pilot from local.

Another thought to reduce the power of a cloak that removes you from local is as follows. When ever someone turns on a covert cloak and disappears from local an entry is made in local saying that "pilot x has had an unexpected disconnect from the local subspace beacon" I think that these changes when put together would make for a very interesting game.

I do not believe that removing local entirely from null is a good idea as I have not seen a workable proposal for some other intelligence tool to replace local. But I do believe that intelligence should be somewhat more difficult to come by.

I will admit that this is intended as more of a silly idea and don't expect this to be implemented as is but I would like to hear what you think of it anyway.

Unbendable McRib
Posted - 2010.10.07 09:21:00 - [2]
 

Make active cloaking devices remove you from local. If this is overpowered (I suspect it is) then make it so only covert cloaks remove the pilot from local.

Or make the Local in 0.0 like Wormhole space empty

EdwardNardella
Capital Construction Research
Posted - 2010.10.07 14:44:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Unbendable McRib
Or make the Local in 0.0 like Wormhole space empty


While interesting and fun (IMO) there is too much opposition to this idea for it to happen.

Octarius Eskravu
Posted - 2010.10.09 17:22:00 - [4]
 

Er..i believe, correct me if im wrong, that you appear in local, because you ativate a stargate, and untill you activate another to get out, you will appear in local, with or without cloak. In WH space there is no local, cause there is no stargates, so no registered entry of some sort.

One way i believe it could fix AFK cloakers, and it makes perfect sense, is the cloak draining capacitor to remain active, i mean, it is an active module, it should waste capacitor, it could be i small percentage per cycle, but when cloaked, the ship couldnt regenerate cap. You could easily counter this by uncloaking, regen or boost your cap and re-cloak...but it would end with AFK cloaker alts that dont even have to worrie to put an eye on them.

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2010.10.10 01:50:00 - [5]
 

Everyone tries to suggest Cloak fuel...

Not taking into account, that you can not run anything else while Cloaked.

So basically, the Cloak is diverting power from every other system, to run itself.

That sounds like it's using power to me, just not a slap in the face use of power like burning Cap would be.


If Cloaks ever used fuel, or burnt Cap to run, players around the world would demand the ability to function completely while under Cloak.

You want me to burn some special fuel. Then I'll carry plenty of that, and ammo too. And light your a$$ up totally unseen.

Solid Star
Posted - 2010.10.10 02:12:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: EdwardNardella
Originally by: Unbendable McRib
Or make the Local in 0.0 like Wormhole space empty


While interesting and fun (IMO) there is too much opposition to this idea for it to happen.
This would transform nullsec into an interesting place, but too many fear the unknown (even though it has shown to work in WHs).

Shobon Welp
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2010.10.10 10:21:00 - [7]
 

Ushra Khan alt spotted

Santiago Fahahrri
Gallente
Galactic Geographic
Posted - 2010.10.10 13:52:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Octarius Eskravu
Er..i believe, correct me if im wrong, that you appear in local, because you ativate a stargate, and untill you activate another to get out, you will appear in local, with or without cloak. In WH space there is no local, cause there is no stargates, so no registered entry of some sort.


Nope - if this is how it worked why would you appear in local if you enter a known space system through a wormhole? No gate has been activated.

Mr Mvoice
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.10 15:05:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Mr Mvoice on 10/10/2010 15:07:28
Novel idea, but totaly not what we need in game

The problem is not that you can see the cloaker in local..

The Problem is, afk cloaker !!

If you know he/she is active and is ready to attack if you do something stupid - fine, great, excatly what was intended.

However, in majority of cases the cloaker is afk, he/she will not attack that noob who just undocked the freighter. Currently you can only find/catch cloakers on the gate's or if they attack. If however the cloak was driven by the cap, and you had limited amouth of time to find target or make locations where you could go to recharge your cap... you would have fair play, you could stay cloaked in system for as long as you are behind the char, should you go afk you could be scanned down.

You could almost say that current cloak system is an exploit, and allowes
"macro-cloaking"

I for one have used this feature on more than one occation ugh

busabob
Posted - 2010.10.11 08:15:00 - [10]
 

How about introducing a max cloak time.

Cloaked pilot should get a warning after lets say 30 min. something like "ship will de-cloack in 1 minuts if cloak isn't activated (ie twice in a sec.)". (twice, or else cloack is de-ativated)

Sweet Razzberri
Posted - 2010.10.11 19:53:00 - [11]
 

Maybe a scanning module could be added... as an infrastructure item, or a POS function.

Fairly costly to run, but has the ability to allow a pilot perform a longrange narrowband scan of their system, a few degrees at a time. Very similar to a directional scanner, but specialized in detecting persistant cloak signatures at the extreme ranges present in a Solar System. Signatures that have been sitting in one place, or moving slowly enough to build up a detectable disruption in the whatchamacallit fields.

This would be useless on active cloaky pilots out hunting, but allow some ability for a system controlling corp to seek out the annoying several-hour reds and neutrals in their safe hidey holes.

World Director
Posted - 2010.10.11 23:27:00 - [12]
 

It will be much better to just kick from server any characters who didn't perform any action for N minutes. Let's say 30. Also less loaded server. Sort of AFK timer.

Sakura Shiro
Posted - 2010.10.12 03:40:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Sakura Shiro on 12/10/2010 06:33:25
Originally by: World Director
It will be much better to just kick from server any characters who didn't perform any action for N minutes. Let's say 30. Also less loaded server. Sort of AFK timer.



Eve is a game where you wait for alot of things...Indy for example. I have inventions days. Got me a rare gem station with open invention qeues 99.9% of the time. Shorter invents of an hour or so, its 3 minutes of clicking, hour or so of doing nothing. MOre annoying to log off and back in than its worth imo.

And there are the mining command ships. Orca/rorq tend to sit around pretty much most of the time. Can tractor and bring in jet cans every 6 minutes or just chill for a bit. KNow many rorq pilots who park in safes areas and drive by only when needed. Rest of the time....hiding thier expensive ship someplace safe. PIta to log it off and on over a long mining op. Especially if the fleet booster.

Pos/sov structure setup....anchor then watch stuff build itself.

To work around this you would have lots of people doing junk commands to the server saying hi I am alive. That is more server load than a char just sitting there to be honest.

Cedims
Posted - 2010.10.12 05:01:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Mr Mvoice
If you know he/she is active and is ready to attack if you do something stupid - fine, great, excatly what was intended.

However, in majority of cases the cloaker is afk, he/she will not attack that noob who just undocked the freighter.

You could almost say that current cloak system is an exploit, and allowes
"macro-cloaking"


"If you know .. is active and is ready to attack", I see cloaked toons.

"in majority of cases the cloaker is afk", do you have some special key combo to find this out...

"almost say that current cloak system is an exploit", third strike, Henry! (And a nice troller.)

Sheez, it wouldn't BE cloaking if one could be found. The nature of a cloak is to hide, to conceal. Regardless if you are taking a two day dump. The only problem is that you can see them in local. I totally agree that they should be removed from local, when cloaked. As I understand, you are "moved" to another node (server, whatever) when cloaked, so to be removed from local might be another system optimization, as well. That's the way a cloak SHOULD work anyways, IMO!

Ned Black
Posted - 2010.10.12 06:18:00 - [15]
 

I think that it is fubar that the lower end cloaks works just as well as the über 1337 Covert ops cloak.

So I say again

Prototype cloak ONLY removes you from overview. You are still visible on directional and in space. Disables automatically after a period of time.

Improved cloak removes you from overview and directional and gives you a shor initial burst of total invisibility. Degrades over time so after a length of time this becomes the prototype protection and then automatically disables.

Covert ops cloak was made for extended operations behind enemy lines. This cloak keeps operating as it is now, only it removes you from local as well.

But I have this version time and time again so I really dont know why I bother. There will be a dozen new cloak threads anyway... even if this one was a bit diffrent to start out with.

Sealiah
Minmatar
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
Care Factor
Posted - 2010.10.12 09:59:00 - [16]
 

If you'r against fuel for cloaks, give us cloak probes. A certain kind of extremely advanced device that can detect a cloaked signature. Make them expensive... Like, really expensive. A couple mil per probe lets say. (that is really expensive for probes), make them manufactured from PI goods instead of just ores.



I do think the reactivation of cloaks is a good idea too. Don't change anything apart from that, that the cloak has a max time run of 30 minutes or so, after that the cloak will switch off unless you do something... Lets say turn it off and on after 5 seconds. It will keep you cloaked for the purpose of active interfering and active game play. Will kill all afk-cloakers.

Ehgrimm
Posted - 2010.10.12 23:39:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Sealiah
If you'r against fuel for cloaks, give us cloak probes. A certain kind of extremely advanced device that can detect a cloaked signature. Make them expensive... Like, really expensive. A couple mil per probe lets say. (that is really expensive for probes), make them manufactured from PI goods instead of just ores.



I do think the reactivation of cloaks is a good idea too. Don't change anything apart from that, that the cloak has a max time run of 30 minutes or so, after that the cloak will switch off unless you do something... Lets say turn it off and on after 5 seconds. It will keep you cloaked for the purpose of active interfering and active game play. Will kill all afk-cloakers.


Nothing is wrong with afk cloaking. Psychological warfare is a part of Eve, always has always will. Afk cloakers do not need to be "killed" because you are scared of their presence. Fuel for cloaks is dumb, time limits for cloaks is even more so.

However I do support removal from local. Of course I also think local should behave everywhere the same as it does in a WH.

Cedims
Posted - 2010.10.14 17:06:00 - [18]
 

A cloaked should not be seen. You see the character in local, therefor you are aware.

The ACTUAL problem then, is that you KNOW an invisible ship is there.

If there is anything regarding cloaking to be fixed, it is that the character should be removed from local, when cloaked!

How do I justify this? Well, if you get a "counter cloak" device, would you also scan down a system in which you do not see an unknown character in local? "Obviously not, jackass!", you may reply. So then, you are using local (a chat window) to locate the unknown character who pilots a ship which is not really visible... see an exploit arising? Geeez... Removing the character from local while cloaked, would render them just as if they left the system, and actually appear to be cloaked, and oops, no need for a "counter cloak" device of any sort.

Aphatasis
Posted - 2010.10.14 17:19:00 - [19]
 

TBH i just read some lines of this.

An idea i read about the "local problem" some weeks/month ago:
0.0 space with a TCU online provides u a local like in empire
0.0 space without any claiming has a local like WH space

For the "scared carbears" (think they've got a bigger lobby than the pvp-ing guys) u can switch it to: "only ppl with the right standing to the system-hoalder can use local in 0.0 space"

Another idea (this is from me):
Upgrades for local u have to insert in the IHUB
- Upgrade to enables "filtering" of local
- Upgrade that u can block whole alliances in local -> no more swastikas posted in local \o/
A lot of other things may be possible by this. Would also force alliances to hold SOV in systems then don't realy need to. Wheater this is good or not can everyone decide on its own.
Would also provide some more ways to build "your own space", what some time ago was one of the mayor goals for CCP.

zcar300
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.14 20:54:00 - [20]
 

Or make it so that people who are cloaked can't hurt you. Oh wait they can't...
Or change it so that people who are AFK can't hurt you. Oh wait they can't...

No different then being AFK in a station in high sec while at war.

This is like carebears winning about CONCORD not protecting them. Rolling Eyes

Marindra
Posted - 2010.10.14 21:12:00 - [21]
 

awesome idea edward i totally agree with you..i think your char name should gisapear from local when cloaked..and also that we should be able to stay cloaked when 2.500 meters or less from another ship ..i hate being decloaked from gate campers or other ships when trying to fly in o.o

davet517
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.10.21 14:03:00 - [22]
 

This one has been hashed over and over and over folks.

Bottom line, 0.0 is not "Safe Space" just cause you have sov, and the game mechanics shouldn't make it so. When you go into 0.0 you're puting your stuff at risk, and it's at risk for as long as you're there. Even if there were no AFK cloakers, there are still corp spies, and scouts for hostiles that have blue standings, etc. It's not safe. It's not going to be safe. It's defensible if you're willing and able to defend it. If you aren't, you probably shouldn't be there.

Everyone wants to be able to go to 0.0 and mine/haul/npc solo 23/7 and make the "big isk". It doesn't work like that. You're either going to have to work as a team with your alliance mates, and accept smaller rewards because of it, or accept that you're going to get ganked sometimes trying to multi-box those hulks or solo rat in your awesome marauder. Just the cost of doing business folks. If you want to make money in peace, solo, and never be bothered, stay in empire. You can do pretty well for yourself in the long haul. just ask Chribba.

Caldari Citizen20090217
Posted - 2010.10.21 15:32:00 - [23]
 

Cloak = pvp flag Twisted Evil

This issue has been talked to death, the leet pvpers don't want to lose their i-win module, and the carebears don't want any risk to their activities.

As everyone else has poorly thought out solutions to this, I may as well add my own:

- No d-scan for a cloaked ship. Now they have to uncloak to scan for you, and you can scan for them.

- A way to know if theres a cloaked ship on your grid. NOT to find it, just let you know if there is one. Or let me know if theres an incoming warp tunnel to my grid maybe.

- Overhaul the whole scanning system. Spamming d-scan every 2 secs for probes sucks.

- Information obfuscation. Currently local is 100% accurate, as is d-scan. I want to be able to drop fake ships to scare/misdirect would-be cloaked gankers, or set traps. I also want to convince the locals I am "AFK" griefing that my cov-ops is an immediate threat.

Arcamenal
Posted - 2010.12.18 13:34:00 - [24]
 

I think that having no way at all to find a cloaker is a bit overpowered.

A counter should make it possible, although hard and time consuming, but still give some possibility so that way the cloaker doesn't get to fly around with no fear what so ever in enemy space.

I propose that to make it balanced cloakers are removed from local when they cloak, and the only way to find a cloaker is as someone said earlier have a pos module that is a able to scan the system for any cloaked objects.

The module would have to have a decent amount of scan time. Im not sure how much exactly would be balanced, but I was thinking in the order of 30 min where the player would have to keep proximity to the module. The module would then give you a warp to point in which the player can warp to the cloaker and decloak him. If the cloaker is active and smart he still has a good chance to escape.

I think this is a pretty balanced suggestion:

-The cloaker retains and if not gains stealth by being removed from local
-The cloaker needs to use some caution while flying around cloaked
-The local players have some way to protect there space from unwanted cloaked ships if willing to put in the time and effort
-Players who do not have a pos setup with said module will still have no way to find a cloaked ship.


 

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