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VLAD VIRONS
Gallente
United Kings
Strategic Operations Brigade
Posted - 2010.10.06 20:59:00 - [31]
 

GJ CCP, btw 4 those who r still confused about why its called - optional patch - means - "The EVE Online client remains usable whether an optional patch is applied or not", in comparsion if u do not install a usual patch (not optional) u will not be able to connect with server.

kudak'etan
Caldari
House of Carrikk
Posted - 2010.10.06 21:04:00 - [32]
 

I have been playing eve since 2005 and I have never once seen an optional patch been deployed and have also never seen any post patch fixes being introduced so closely to the original patch release.

Can you please reveal????

1. Have you developed a new patch routine for releases for quick fixes?
2. Have you increased your workload to much to handle?
3. Are you rushing your patches for competition reasons?

I love eve, don't kill it, I have never seen eve released into such a untested state, why are you having to release inncentives for players to log into the test server, are you having issues testing your own releases???

Can't pull wool over my eyes so tell me why so dramatically different to my previous 5 years of playing?

Thanks,

Matt.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.10.06 21:08:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Hordi LaGeorge
So far each patch has improved eve for me. The original 1.1 patch cleared up all my constant client crashes, making eve much more enjoyable to play.

But it did add the UI bugs, which have been slowly going away.

CCP: Will patch #3 fix bug #101533?
Don't know, I've notified the programmers.

Palovana
Caldari
Inner Fire Inc.
Posted - 2010.10.06 21:09:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Patch notes for Tyrannis 1.1 Optional Patch To be deployed Thursday, October 7, 2010


FIXES

User Interface

* It is now possible to resize pinned windows.
* Itemized bookmarks can now be dragged from a location, such as a cargo hold, straight into a bookmark folder.
* The overview is now forced to clean itself after you have jumped. It didn't before, which was messy.

Miscellaneous

* The asset window no longer goes blank if it was open while your ship was docking.



#2 is good, only saw #3 once and clearing cache fixed that, never experienced #4.

But as for #1 - I have the "Lock Windows When Pinned" option checked, please tell me this patch won't override that setting.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.10.06 21:35:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: kudak'etan
I have been playing eve since 2005 and I have never once seen an optional patch been deployed and have also never seen any post patch fixes being introduced so closely to the original patch release.

Can you please reveal????

1. Have you developed a new patch routine for releases for quick fixes?
2. Have you increased your workload to much to handle?
3. Are you rushing your patches for competition reasons?

I love eve, don't kill it, I have never seen eve released into such a untested state, why are you having to release inncentives for players to log into the test server, are you having issues testing your own releases???

Can't pull wool over my eyes so tell me why so dramatically different to my previous 5 years of playing?
We initially developed the optional client hotfix system in Oct 2007 and iterated on it in Jan 2008. We have used it since then when it's appropriate.

We can only use it if the changes we are making are completely separated stand-alone client changes on one hand and stand-alone server changes on the other. As soon as there is a single coordinated client/server change then we have to go for a full patch.

When we have to use a full patch then we tend to hold off on the client changes and accumulate the fixes into a larger patch, due to the overhead. With the optional client hotfixes we release often, as soon as there are tested fixes ready.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.10.06 21:59:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
100878: There are no details for us in this bug report.

Sorry, but "Show Info window opening in center of screen, covering the scene" is not enough of a detail or what?

Quote:
100913: Not reproducible.

Prove with screenshot. For me it is as it is - a pile of text, without reply indentation.

Actually, to make it easier for you, I just made a crude video presentation.
http://eve.rootdir.org/upload/Capture-2010-10-07.avi

Quote:
100891: Not reproducible.

10 min...

Quote:
99843: You already have a reply there.

I don't consider a polite "STFU" as valid reply to obvious case for degraded functionality. (May also add "Sorry, but ..." in front of it, if you feel offended)
Bughunter was able to confirm and reproduce the issue (at the time of submission), but he didn't do anything, instead he claimed that degraded functionality is intended move.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.10.06 22:09:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Explorer
100878: There are no details for us in this bug report.

Sorry, but "Show Info window opening in center of screen, covering the scene" is not enough of a detail or what?
I'm sorry but there is no title in the bug report and it doesn't contain this text. Please make sure it was submitted properly. BTW, I've notified the programmers.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.10.06 22:11:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
100891: Not reproducible.

http://eve.rootdir.org/upload/Market-2010-10-07.avi

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.10.06 22:16:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Explorer
99843: You already have a reply there.
I don't consider a polite "STFU" as valid reply to obvious case for degraded functionality. (May also add "Sorry, but ..." in front of it, if you feel offended) Bughunter was able to confirm and reproduce the issue (at the time of submission), but he didn't do anything, instead he claimed that degraded functionality is intended move.
It is intended design and the response from the bug hunter is correct.

Try it in Windows, double clicking in the column headers in Windows Explorer will change the sort order. What you should in EVE (as in Windows) is to double click on the column separators in between the column headers. That will resize the column to the left of the cursor. You will find EVE and Windows to behave the same way.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.10.06 22:23:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Explorer
99843: You already have a reply there.
I don't consider a polite "STFU" as valid reply to obvious case for degraded functionality. (May also add "Sorry, but ..." in front of it, if you feel offended) Bughunter was able to confirm and reproduce the issue (at the time of submission), but he didn't do anything, instead he claimed that degraded functionality is intended move.
It is intended design and the response from the bug hunter is correct.

Try it in Windows, double clicking in the column headers in Windows Explorer will change the sort order. What you should in EVE (as in Windows) is to double click on the column separators in between the column headers. That will resize the column to the left of the cursor. You will find EVE and Windows to behave the same way.


Degraded functionality: It's considerable harder to hit two pixels between columns, rather than the whole column header.
Degraded/confused functionality: If before the doubleclick was different action from click, and they didn't interfere, now the doubleclick doing both autoresize and change sorting direction.
Decide on one action, please, not both.

Karia Sur
Posted - 2010.10.06 22:26:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Karia Sur
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Karia Sur
yup
We encountered a client crash issue during the deployment dry-run testing.

The schedule called for TQ to be opened at 13:40 GMT. The issue was raised to Software at 12:29 GMT and had been fixed and ported for release at 15:06 GMT. It was a very tricky issue with three different components colliding to produce a crash, which is very rare.

TQ opened at 18:46 GTM and in between we rebuilt the client (binaries, installers and patches), uploaded, and download and patch tested.


I actually meant why did you deploy buggy code.


hmm, i didnt think that would get a reply. Rolling Eyes

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.10.06 22:27:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Explorer
100891: Not reproducible.
http://eve.rootdir.org/upload/Market-2010-10-07.avi
Fortunately your videos are much better than your bug reports. I'll ask the programmers to take a look.

Guru'Kha
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.10.06 22:38:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Explorer
100891: Not reproducible.
http://eve.rootdir.org/upload/Market-2010-10-07.avi
Fortunately your videos are much better than your bug reports. I'll ask the programmers to take a look.


Burnt....

Jhoria Englside
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.06 23:04:00 - [44]
 

Explowned

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.10.06 23:32:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Explorer
100891: Not reproducible.
http://eve.rootdir.org/upload/Market-2010-10-07.avi
Fortunately your videos are much better than your bug reports. I'll ask the programmers to take a look.


*Shakes shoulders* I'm not doing anything special. Just step-by-step executing the reproduction steps from my bugreports.

Brannor McThife
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.10.07 00:27:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: oolk

-No popup when you get an expedition (gotta check journal-not critical)


Where did you see this???

I did exploration for the last 2 days and was moaning that I didn't get any escalations... and now I've just JC'd across the universe...

How many could I have missed now... Grrrr.

<whine>
*demands billions of isk in compensation*
</whine>

-G

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.10.07 00:31:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Explorer
100891: Not reproducible.
http://eve.rootdir.org/upload/Market-2010-10-07.avi
Fortunately your videos are much better than your bug reports. I'll ask the programmers to take a look.
*Shakes shoulders* I'm not doing anything special. Just step-by-step executing the reproduction steps from my bugreports.
No, I read your bug reports; there is tremendous detail missing compared to what I saw in the video. For example, for the auto-resize issue you are experiencing then in the video you change the column order.

BTW, I tried this again and I still can't reproduce this. But details are key so that we can reproduce the issues and perhaps I overlooked something in the video that the programmers will spot. Very Happy

Jhoria Englside
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.07 00:34:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Explorer
100891: Not reproducible.
http://eve.rootdir.org/upload/Market-2010-10-07.avi
Fortunately your videos are much better than your bug reports. I'll ask the programmers to take a look.


*Shakes shoulders* I'm not doing anything special. Just step-by-step executing the reproduction steps from my bugreports.

Dear Derp,
I believe the word you are looking for is 'shrug'. To shake ones shoulders would just be silly.

Yours Truly,
Yours Truly

Ejit
Amarr
STD contractors
Posted - 2010.10.07 01:27:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Explorer
This patch fixes all known client issues that we are aware of were introduced in Tyrannis 1.1.
So, I take it that Show Info window opened into your face is an unknown issue?
Please be more specific.


If I'm reading him correctly. I think he's referring to the self induced 3D EVE he is experiencing due to the consumption of large amounts of various ilegal hand made cigarettes.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.10.07 01:45:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri

I don't consider a polite "STFU" as valid reply to obvious case for degraded functionality. (May also add "Sorry, but ..." in front of it, if you feel offended)
Bughunter was able to confirm and reproduce the issue (at the time of submission), but he didn't do anything, instead he claimed that degraded functionality is intended move.


Yeah our QA department doesn't like it when we say "it's working as designed" either. Unfortunately for them (and you) it is a legitimate response.

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2010.10.07 04:35:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer


Try it in Windows, double clicking in the column headers in Windows Explorer will change the sort order. What you should in EVE (as in Windows) is to double click on the column separators in between the column headers. That will resize the column to the left of the cursor. You will find EVE and Windows to behave the same way.


With all due respect, do you use windows? Because that is not how MS Windows works.

SINGLE-click column header sorts column. DOUBLE-click header sorts column twice...ascending, then descending.

KB

Rhaegar Thrax
Gallente
Militaris Industries
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.10.07 05:02:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Rhaegar Thrax on 07/10/2010 05:06:16
Edited by: Rhaegar Thrax on 07/10/2010 05:03:51
Edited by: Rhaegar Thrax on 07/10/2010 05:03:19
Wow, I'm impressed with the talkativeness from the dev team in this thread.

Must say, only problem i really had was the target action window resizing every time I undocked, and the second optional patch fixed that.

Now, I have something entirely different on mind, which is also related to the UI.

When you're setting up the overview to show drones and wrecks, a while ago you didn't need to check "is in alliance" and "has excellent standing" in states filter. The "is in alliance" was after dominion, and "has excellent standing" was after this Tyrannis 1.1 update.

Is this intentional? or is a misfortunate sneaky bug that hasn't been addressed yet? I can't see why you'd have to do this to see your own wrecks and drones, as I certainly don't want to see pilots with excellent standing and in my alliance when missioning. Gets my overview cluttered.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.10.07 07:22:00 - [53]
 

I did not understand if the Developer acknowledged the bug with the Show Info window appearing always smack in the screen center.

Reproduce steps:

1) Lock a rat
2) Click on the big "i" in the upper right of the screen (top of overview=>selected item)
3) The resulting info window appears at the center of the screen.
4) Move it wherever. Close it. Click the "i" again. The window will appear at the center of the screen again and again.


Quote:

Actually,the 1st optional patch did nothing but the 2nd was actually pretty good.

It fixed 95% of the issues I had at least.

Hopefully that 3rd optional will fix my remaining problems...

P.S.



Actually it was the third.
First it was the "do nothing" optional patch.
Second it was a second "do nothing" optional patch published in Oct 5 morning
Third was the "fixes #2" labelled patch published later in Oct 5 and it worked.

Liandra Xi
Amarr
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2010.10.07 08:09:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: KaarBaak
Originally by: CCP Explorer


Try it in Windows, double clicking in the column headers in Windows Explorer will change the sort order. What you should in EVE (as in Windows) is to double click on the column separators in between the column headers. That will resize the column to the left of the cursor. You will find EVE and Windows to behave the same way.


With all due respect, do you use windows? Because that is not how MS Windows works.

SINGLE-click column header sorts column. DOUBLE-click header sorts column twice...ascending, then descending.

KB



With all due respect, but what the Dev described is EXACTLY how it works in windows. You are getting confused between clicking on the column header vs the column header seperator (the line in between the columns in the column header).

Clicking on the column header changes the sort order, double clicking sorts it first one way then the other. Double clicking on the seperator though resizes the column to the left of the mouse cursor to an "auto size" that should expand/shrink the column to the exact width of the content being displayed in the column.

Go check your facts again because frankly sir you are wrong and CCP are right in this instance.

Moni Toimikone
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.07 09:29:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Moni Toimikone on 07/10/2010 09:31:15
Originally by: KaarBaak
Originally by: CCP Explorer


Try it in Windows, double clicking in the column headers in Windows Explorer will change the sort order. What you should in EVE (as in Windows) is to double click on the column separators in between the column headers. That will resize the column to the left of the cursor. You will find EVE and Windows to behave the same way.


With all due respect, do you use windows? Because that is not how MS Windows works.

SINGLE-click column header sorts column. DOUBLE-click header sorts column twice...ascending, then descending.

KB



It actually works exactly as Explorer described it. Tested on windows explorer on xp pro sp2.

Edit: Damn I'm slow :(

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.10.07 10:27:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Fortunately your videos are much better than your bug reports. I'll ask the programmers to take a look.
*Shakes shoulders* I'm not doing anything special. Just step-by-step executing the reproduction steps from my bugreports.
No, I read your bug reports; there is tremendous detail missing compared to what I saw in the video. For example, for the auto-resize issue you are experiencing then in the video you change the column order.

BTW, I tried this again and I still can't reproduce this. But details are key so that we can reproduce the issues and perhaps I overlooked something in the video that the programmers will spot. Very Happy
After a review of your video: You open the market window, rearrange the columns and then you manually resize the price column. Manually resizing the column turns off auto resizing. That's nothing new, it was like that before Tyrannis 1.1. Your bug report went from Not Reproducible to By Design.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.10.07 10:29:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
I did not understand if the Developer acknowledged the bug with the Show Info window appearing always smack in the screen center.
Yes, we are aware of that issue.

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.10.07 11:51:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Fortunately your videos are much better than your bug reports. I'll ask the programmers to take a look.
*Shakes shoulders* I'm not doing anything special. Just step-by-step executing the reproduction steps from my bugreports.
No, I read your bug reports; there is tremendous detail missing compared to what I saw in the video. For example, for the auto-resize issue you are experiencing then in the video you change the column order.

BTW, I tried this again and I still can't reproduce this. But details are key so that we can reproduce the issues and perhaps I overlooked something in the video that the programmers will spot. Very Happy
After a review of your video: You open the market window, rearrange the columns and then you manually resize the price column. Manually resizing the column turns off auto resizing. That's nothing new, it was like that before Tyrannis 1.1. Your bug report went from Not Reproducible to By Design.


Did you used to work for SOE or something?

Their term for a problem they don't want to fix is call it "working as intended". Now that you describe it, this happens to me too, it's annoying and the screen shouldn't do that.

I'thari
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.07 12:14:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Manually resizing the column turns off auto resizing.
hmm... I have a stupid question then: how to re-enable auto resizing?

Karia Sur
Posted - 2010.10.07 12:22:00 - [60]
 

Hmm, now when i drag an item from the assets window into the cargohold or fitting screen, the assets window jumps to the top and then back down to wherever it was. (eg. if you have 50 items in your assets and you drag #45, the window jumps up to the top and then back to the level that item #45 was at.) Its annoying as hell.


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