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Dragodos
Posted - 2010.10.04 16:49:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Dragodos on 05/10/2010 14:06:42
Ok First of all. I know EVE is a PVP game. But it's suposed to be a secure area where you can play "safety".

But I can see a big number of "suicide acts" in empire. I can post a killboard link where you can see 5 suicides of the same pilot in less than two weeks.

Ok Concord will come and revenge you. But looses of unaware pilots can be of billions. (And a tremendous frustation) And thanks to insurance the aggressor only loose a few millions. What makes suicides a very lucrative act.

There are many ease ways to restore your sec status. In null sec you restore it really quicky.

So I just suggest:
a) Increase Sec Status Loose for Destroing a ship and Podding
b) Decrease Concord response time
c) Revoque the insure for aggressors (Cause it's an illegal activity)
d) Remove sec status gain in null sec (cause it's not empire control zone)



Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.10.04 16:52:00 - [2]
 

Or you can not transport billions in an untanked hauler. Use courier contracts to disguise the contents of your hold. Don't use autopilot. You could write a book of stupid things people do that allow suicide ganks.


Hadiax
Posted - 2010.10.04 16:55:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Hadiax on 04/10/2010 16:56:20
I'm for not paying out insurances to suicide gankers (or ships killed by concord to make it easy), just makes more sense in my book :p

But other than that, basicaly what the guy above me said, don't do stupid **** and the chance to get suicide ganked is a LOT smaller. Even IF they'd take out insurance payments suicide ganking is still very lucrative because some people are just flying overkill setups, or transport TONS of isk in weak ships (and this often afk). So yeah... You can help yourself to be safe :p

Rastino
Minmatar
Cryptonym Sleepers
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.10.04 18:42:00 - [4]
 

Some of us don’t care about the ISK loss and do it for the LOLS and hate mails.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2010.10.04 20:11:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: ShahFluffers on 04/10/2010 20:18:52
Originally by: Dragodos
Ok First of all. I know EVE is a PVP game. But it's suposed to be a secure area where you can play "safety".



There is no such "secure" zone in EvE.
High-sec is safer that Low-sec. Low-sec is safer than Null-sec. Null-sec is a turkey shoot. The key word in all this is "safer," not "safe" as you can be shot and killed anywhere.

If you do not wish to be a target of a "suicide gank" then you must play the odds in your favor; make your ship unattractive to gank (i.e. have crap cargo (i.e. ore/minerals), too big a tank/too few valuable goods), have a scout that looks for such gank camps a few jumps ahead, have an escort that is willing to be "proactive" in your defense, etc, etc.

edit: Eve Search is your friend! This is what happened to the last thread that was along the same lines.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.10.05 08:20:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Dragodos
Ok First of all. I know EVE is a PVP game. But it's suposed to be a secure area where you can play "safety".



Nope, not true at all. I dont know who gave you that idea, but they've misled you.

Dragodos
Posted - 2010.10.05 11:43:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: ShahFluffers


edit: Eve Search is your friend! This is what happened to the last thread that was along the same lines.


Ok you are right, I'm sorry I did not look it. Sorry again.

Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
Posted - 2010.10.05 12:40:00 - [8]
 

I support
b) Revoque the insure for aggressors (Cause it's an illegal activity

because it makes sense. You shouldn´t get paid for it and being able to make a business out of it.


Avan Sercedos
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.10.06 01:18:00 - [9]
 

lol'd when I read the OP. Laughing

lol'd again reading it for a second time as I wrote the above Laughing

Guy LeDuche
Posted - 2010.10.06 16:22:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Guy LeDuche on 06/10/2010 16:22:44
My carebear lost 2 tengus in a row to suicide, and they're both t2 fitted and carrying only ammo. Apparently they don't check contents anymore, just jump on the gank whenever they can. Lost the 2nd one before the subsystem sp loss from 1st gank even finished training back up. Used to think suicide ganking as part of the game, but recently this "game mechanics" is really coming apart at the seams. There are sometimes smack in local, not between ganker and ganked, but different groups of gankers fighting over a spot.Rolling Eyes

AdZc
Caldari
Legio Prima Victrix
Imperius Legio Victrix
Posted - 2010.10.06 17:27:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Dragodos
Edited by: Dragodos on 05/10/2010 14:06:42
Ok First of all. I know EVE is a PVP game. But it's suposed to be a secure area where you can play "safety".




Wrong wrong wrong.....

a) Already pretty high for poddings i had a 12% drop after a podkill on an alt the other day.
b) no
c) Umm no
d) lul wut?

Sorry but this seems completly rubbish plus u contradict yourself majorly. "Its PVP game but i want it you cant PK in areas???"

You want concord to just like "poof" appear as soon as someone opens fire? This aint Harry potter where u can just appear, concord has to warp in etc, and TBh its fast enough (they can detect an illegal activity an be on scene in like 10seconds??)

Goose99
Posted - 2010.10.06 18:12:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: AdZc
Originally by: Dragodos
Edited by: Dragodos on 05/10/2010 14:06:42
Ok First of all. I know EVE is a PVP game. But it's suposed to be a secure area where you can play "safety".




Wrong wrong wrong.....

a) Already pretty high for poddings i had a 12% drop after a podkill on an alt the other day.
b) no
c) Umm no
d) lul wut?

Sorry but this seems completly rubbish plus u contradict yourself majorly. "Its PVP game but i want it you cant PK in areas???"

You want concord to just like "poof" appear as soon as someone opens fire? This aint Harry potter where u can just appear, concord has to warp in etc, and TBh its fast enough (they can detect an illegal activity an be on scene in like 10seconds??)


It only takes one volley. Doesn't matter how fast concord shows up.

You missed the problem. Consider this: Out in lowsec or null, a BS doesn't stand a chance against a t3 cruiser. But in concordland the reverse is true, because the t3 isn't allowed to defend itself. By the time the volley came, it's too late. Ganker enjoys concord protection, that's why they are able to do what they do.

It used to be the case where you can avoid suicide gank by not carrying valuables, but ppl realized how easy t3s are to gank, and pulls the trigger without waiting to check contents. Can't fight it, can't avoid it.

AdZc
Caldari
Legio Prima Victrix
Imperius Legio Victrix
Posted - 2010.10.06 18:16:00 - [13]
 

Ofc it can defend itself, if u gonna fly an expensive ship take some precautions, have hardners on at all times etc, dont AP. Get a scout if u have to, fit a cloaky warp if needed.

And yea if u survive initial volley GTFO or shoot back.

Goose99
Posted - 2010.10.06 18:30:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: AdZc
Ofc it can defend itself, if u gonna fly an expensive ship take some precautions, have hardners on at all times etc, dont AP. Get a scout if u have to, fit a cloaky warp if needed.

And yea if u survive initial volley GTFO or shoot back.


-Tengu won't survive.
-You put a cloak on mission boat in highsec?
-Scout in highsec? Ppl are everywhere. You're going to check background of everyone you see?

Problem: Concord protect gankers. You see them, but can't hit them until it's too late. They only need one volley and can choose when, where and how to attack. Until then they're completely safe, you're not. Afterwards it doesn't matter. The problem is not that highsec is not safe enough for carebears, but that it's too safe for gankers.Rolling Eyes

Midori Amiiko
Gallente
NerdHerd
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.10.06 22:39:00 - [15]
 

Instead of crying about it (which only encourages them) set up an anti-gank fleet, with good bait and a lot of friends to finish off what they start.
The problem with a lot of carebears is that they don't have friends. This is a game about friends. If you want to mish in an NPC corp all by yourself don't expect to survive encounters with people who (gasp) fly in gangs and have backup.

As for T3 being easy to gank: I don't get it. My Prote has 7 lows slots. That's a lot of warp stabs....or plates. In nul sec, there's the interdiction nullifier. And my Tengu-flying pals can tank more than I can. Maybe the problem is with your fit. T2 on a T3 ship? Go faction or officer. T3 is not the place to cut costs.


Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2010.10.07 00:22:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: AdZc
Ofc it can defend itself, if u gonna fly an expensive ship take some precautions, have hardners on at all times etc, dont AP. Get a scout if u have to, fit a cloaky warp if needed.

And yea if u survive initial volley GTFO or shoot back.


-Tengu won't survive.
-You put a cloak on mission boat in highsec?
-Scout in highsec? Ppl are everywhere. You're going to check background of everyone you see?

Get out of highsec? Wink

Dr Ngo
Amarr
JESUS CHRIST IT'S A LION GET IN THE CAR
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2010.10.07 00:53:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Out in lowsec or null, a BS doesn't stand a chance against a t3 cruiser. But in concordland the reverse is true, because the t3 isn't allowed to defend itself.


I know you think you know what you're talking about but you really don't. Stop uberfaction****fitting tengus in highsec and maybe you won't die like an idiot on an undockRolling Eyes

Also nice troll OP

Bhattran
Posted - 2010.10.07 01:00:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Midori Amiiko
Instead of crying about it (which only encourages them) set up an anti-gank fleet, with good bait and a lot of friends to finish off what they start.
The problem with a lot of carebears is that they don't have friends. This is a game about friends. If you want to mish in an NPC corp all by yourself don't expect to survive encounters with people who (gasp) fly in gangs and have backup.

As for T3 being easy to gank: I don't get it. My Prote has 7 lows slots. That's a lot of warp stabs....or plates. In nul sec, there's the interdiction nullifier. And my Tengu-flying pals can tank more than I can. Maybe the problem is with your fit. T2 on a T3 ship? Go faction or officer. T3 is not the place to cut costs.




You understand that the gank fleet is setup to die right? They only need 1 shot and an alt to loot the wreck so there is your fleet unless you are imagining a fleet to take down a freighter or something which isn't really what is being discussed here.

Your advice on fitting a T3 also shows you don't understand the problem or that is your attempt to push more faction fit ships to get popped and looted. A correctly setup BS can alpha a T3 no matter what the setup, barring possibly if it is setup exclusively for HP which negates it's use for anything, ie no guns, which is pointless unless you are hauling BPO's which can be done in any number of other ships setup as such.


Goose99
Posted - 2010.10.07 01:54:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Dr Ngo
Originally by: Goose99
Out in lowsec or null, a BS doesn't stand a chance against a t3 cruiser. But in concordland the reverse is true, because the t3 isn't allowed to defend itself.


I know you think you know what you're talking about but you really don't. Stop uberfaction****fitting tengus in highsec and maybe you won't die like an idiot on an undockRolling Eyes

Also nice troll OP


Read the post again. It's t2 fit tengu with only ammo, no faction. Ganking is such those days that they don't scan anymore, just hit the trigger and bid their luck, or the next gankers in line will get their hands on it.Rolling Eyes

Dr Ngo
Amarr
JESUS CHRIST IT'S A LION GET IN THE CAR
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2010.10.07 02:21:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Dr Ngo
Originally by: Goose99
Out in lowsec or null, a BS doesn't stand a chance against a t3 cruiser. But in concordland the reverse is true, because the t3 isn't allowed to defend itself.


I know you think you know what you're talking about but you really don't. Stop uberfaction****fitting tengus in highsec and maybe you won't die like an idiot on an undockRolling Eyes

Also nice troll OP


Read the post again. It's t2 fit tengu with only ammo, no faction. Ganking is such those days that they don't scan anymore, just hit the trigger and bid their luck, or the next gankers in line will get their hands on it.Rolling Eyes


You misunderstood. Fit a bit of buffer and it increases your chances of survival by quite a bit. Pay attention to your entire overview turning yellow and turn your tank on in advance or just gtfo.

Don't fly anything you can't afford to lose. Suicide ganking isn't likely to change as a legitimate in game tactic. You can minimize your risks with just a little bit of effort and understanding of game mechanics.

All this being said I wouldn't complain about insurance not covering loss to concord but I wouldn't expect that to do anything to stem the flow of suicide gankers.

Goose99
Posted - 2010.10.07 03:20:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Dr Ngo
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Dr Ngo
Originally by: Goose99
Out in lowsec or null, a BS doesn't stand a chance against a t3 cruiser. But in concordland the reverse is true, because the t3 isn't allowed to defend itself.


I know you think you know what you're talking about but you really don't. Stop uberfaction****fitting tengus in highsec and maybe you won't die like an idiot on an undockRolling Eyes

Also nice troll OP


Read the post again. It's t2 fit tengu with only ammo, no faction. Ganking is such those days that they don't scan anymore, just hit the trigger and bid their luck, or the next gankers in line will get their hands on it.Rolling Eyes


You misunderstood. Fit a bit of buffer and it increases your chances of survival by quite a bit. Pay attention to your entire overview turning yellow and turn your tank on in advance or just gtfo.

Don't fly anything you can't afford to lose. Suicide ganking isn't likely to change as a legitimate in game tactic. You can minimize your risks with just a little bit of effort and understanding of game mechanics.

All this being said I wouldn't complain about insurance not covering loss to concord but I wouldn't expect that to do anything to stem the flow of suicide gankers.


You underestimate how paper thin active pve fit t3s are. It takes only one arty volley from one BS to gank a tengu, harder on or not. It's not a Rattlesnake with the ehp of a freighter.

Izo Alabaster
Posted - 2010.10.07 03:56:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Dragodos
Edited by: Dragodos on 05/10/2010 14:06:42
Ok First of all. I know EVE is a PVP game. But it's suposed to be a secure area where you can play "safety".

But I can see a big number of "suicide acts" in empire. I can post a killboard link where you can see 5 suicides of the same pilot in less than two weeks.

Ok Concord will come and revenge you. But looses of unaware pilots can be of billions. (And a tremendous frustation) And thanks to insurance the aggressor only loose a few millions. What makes suicides a very lucrative act.

There are many ease ways to restore your sec status. In null sec you restore it really quicky.

So I just suggest:
a) Increase Sec Status Loose for Destroing a ship and Podding
b) Decrease Concord response time
c) Revoque the insure for aggressors (Cause it's an illegal activity)
d) Remove sec status gain in null sec (cause it's not empire control zone)



I bolded the part that you're wrong about.

a) - They already did that recently and also made it so sec status changes impact the aggressor more if he's attacking someone with higher security status.
b) - They recently did that too. Decreased it from half a minute or so to what it is currently, about 1/3 of what it used to be.
c) - No, they don't need to revoke the insurance for aggressors. I don't care to explain why, but revoking insurance for anyone who loses their ship is a bad idea.
d) - Sec status changes are a sign of appreciation from Concord for having destroyed an enemy faction's ship, such as Sansha. If you're going to remove it from nullsec, I would suggest you propose removing +sec status changes from lowsec as well, since it's not really empire controlled space either. Neither of those are good ideas.

KaiserSoze434
Posted - 2010.10.07 04:11:00 - [23]
 

So where do I go to sign up to suicide gank gate and station lurkers for a fee? Where would I sign up for that database or mailing list that posts character names of suicide gankers along with a unofficial bounty (you'd be good for the isk because you're a solid citizen, right?)?

Those things don't exist do they? You have all the tools in the sandbox you need to solve this problem. Stop petitioning CCP to give you balls or drive to compete.

Goose99
Posted - 2010.10.07 04:22:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: KaiserSoze434
So where do I go to sign up to suicide gank gate and station lurkers for a fee? Where would I sign up for that database or mailing list that posts character names of suicide gankers along with a unofficial bounty (you'd be good for the isk because you're a solid citizen, right?)?

Those things don't exist do they? You have all the tools in the sandbox you need to solve this problem. Stop petitioning CCP to give you balls or drive to compete.


It doesn't exist because it's stupid. It takes half a dozen BS to gank one ganker BS. But only one volley out of one ganker BS to gank a t3 cruiser. Even if you gank a ganker, he loses almost no isk from insured tech 1 tier 1 bs, and can dock up immediately for another one. No aggro, no sec loss, no isk loss. There is no way to get back at gankers, because game mechanics does not allow it, give up.Rolling Eyes

Natasha Hec
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2010.10.07 08:08:00 - [25]
 

Heres a hint turn your hardeners on whilst your travelling and then the gank bs wont be able to volley your unless your **** fit

Dr Ngo
Amarr
JESUS CHRIST IT'S A LION GET IN THE CAR
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2010.10.07 08:41:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Goose99

You underestimate how paper thin active pve fit t3s are. It takes only one arty volley from one BS to gank a tengu, harder on or not. It's not a Rattlesnake with the ehp of a freighter.


Hardeners are important too but I said buffer. If you have to gimp your t3's mission fit a little to make it more surviveable then so be it (personally I don't think you really have to). If you're too lazy to do that then go buy a rattlesnake 'with the ehp of a freighter'.

Goose99
Posted - 2010.10.07 14:41:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Dr Ngo
Originally by: Goose99

You underestimate how paper thin active pve fit t3s are. It takes only one arty volley from one BS to gank a tengu, harder on or not. It's not a Rattlesnake with the ehp of a freighter.


Hardeners are important too but I said buffer. If you have to gimp your t3's mission fit a little to make it more surviveable then so be it (personally I don't think you really have to). If you're too lazy to do that then go buy a rattlesnake 'with the ehp of a freighter'.


One or 2 lses won't keep that tengu from being one volleyed by arty by a long shot. Any more and you run out of grid and your failfit won't be viable for pve. Trust me, ppl have tried and failed. There is a reason solo instapopping tengus are all the rage those days, to a point where they would blind gank ones that ended up being t2 fitted without scanning, because it's so easy.

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.10.07 15:36:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 07/10/2010 15:39:55
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Dr Ngo
Originally by: Goose99

You underestimate how paper thin active pve fit t3s are. It takes only one arty volley from one BS to gank a tengu, harder on or not. It's not a Rattlesnake with the ehp of a freighter.


Hardeners are important too but I said buffer. If you have to gimp your t3's mission fit a little to make it more surviveable then so be it (personally I don't think you really have to). If you're too lazy to do that then go buy a rattlesnake 'with the ehp of a freighter'.


One or 2 lses won't keep that tengu from being one volleyed by arty by a long shot. Any more and you run out of grid and your failfit won't be viable for pve. Trust me, ppl have tried and failed. There is a reason solo instapopping tengus are all the rage those days, to a point where they would blind gank ones that ended up being t2 fitted without scanning, because it's so easy.


Haha, you seriously have no idea how to fit a ship do you?

*picks one of the highest EHP subcaps in the game*
*declares it cant be tanked to survive a one shot*

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2010.10.07 15:45:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Drake Draconis on 07/10/2010 15:48:03
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 07/10/2010 15:46:38
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 07/10/2010 15:39:55
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Dr Ngo
Originally by: Goose99

You underestimate how paper thin active pve fit t3s are. It takes only one arty volley from one BS to gank a tengu, harder on or not. It's not a Rattlesnake with the ehp of a freighter.


Hardeners are important too but I said buffer. If you have to gimp your t3's mission fit a little to make it more surviveable then so be it (personally I don't think you really have to). If you're too lazy to do that then go buy a rattlesnake 'with the ehp of a freighter'.


One or 2 lses won't keep that tengu from being one volleyed by arty by a long shot. Any more and you run out of grid and your failfit won't be viable for pve. Trust me, ppl have tried and failed. There is a reason solo instapopping tengus are all the rage those days, to a point where they would blind gank ones that ended up being t2 fitted without scanning, because it's so easy.


Haha, you seriously have no idea how to fit a ship do you?

*picks one of the highest EHP subcaps in the game*
*declares it cant be tanked to survive a one shot*


For once I agree with ed over there (And that's rare)

Either there are that many idiot Tengu pilots who don't know WTF they are doing.

Or this bull#### about "T3's can't survive the first shot form a gank BS" is just utterly full of epic fail.



whose trolling who again?

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.10.07 15:49:00 - [30]
 

Here is proof in cinema that T3 can have high EHP. This fight came down to the freaking wire and I assure you we all had lots of EHP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40hu3rkRy5Q


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