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blankseplocked Why is everyone up in arms about the new patch?
 
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Tyber Zaan
Posted - 2010.10.04 14:27:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Muddy Miner
Patch? Bugs?
*scratches head*
See this is what happens when I stare at roids all day.
I gotta read the the forums more often.
So are the new bugs I've missed all in null sec?



Few minor UI bugs. Convo windows not auto-stacking. Most of which can be dealt with if you have more patience than a 3-year old. Thats about the worst I have seen.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.10.04 14:29:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 04/10/2010 14:30:32
Originally by: Tyber Zaan
Few minor UI bugs. Convo windows not auto-stacking. Most of which can be dealt with if you have more patience than a 3-year old. Thats about the worst I have seen.
That's the thing about bugs: you cannot take yourself as an example because you might not see them all.

They are not few, and they certainly aren't minor. It's far worse than that — see the issues thread for a (far from complete) list.

Tyber Zaan
Posted - 2010.10.04 14:58:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 04/10/2010 14:30:32
Originally by: Tyber Zaan
Few minor UI bugs. Convo windows not auto-stacking. Most of which can be dealt with if you have more patience than a 3-year old. Thats about the worst I have seen.
That's the thing about bugs: you cannot take yourself as an example because you might not see them all.

They are not few, and they certainly aren't minor. It's far worse than that — see the issues thread for a (far from complete) list.


Point taken. I admit to being only able to report what i have not seen. And I have yet to see something truly major. Ill keep an open mind.

Nuadi
Posted - 2010.10.04 15:05:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 04/10/2010 14:12:39
Originally by: Nuadi
The reason for refactoring the backend of a client program is generally so that one may swap out how the UI is built, or make radical changes to the UI and not affect the backend.


Perhaps they found something in the UI which contributes to lag, and are attempting a more streamlined method. Otherwise i don't see why they wouldn't just begin changing its appearance now.


Ah, maybe they did find something in the UI related to lag - who knows. Supposing that they did, such a bug would be found in the backend of the UI. Refactoring will help them in the lag fight as well. They'll be able to make changes to the backend without affecting the frontend UI.

Refactoring and then releasing the client makes perfect sense. They don't want to start changing the frontend until they've seen the refactored client in the "wild". Once they've seen how it performed, and worked out minor bugs, then they can tackle more changes on the frontend knowing that the client-server communications are soundly safe in the backend.

Muddy Miner
Gallente
Tiny Fleet
Posted - 2010.10.04 15:07:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 04/10/2010 14:30:32
Originally by: Tyber Zaan
Few minor UI bugs. Convo windows not auto-stacking. Most of which can be dealt with if you have more patience than a 3-year old. Thats about the worst I have seen.
That's the thing about bugs: you cannot take yourself as an example because you might not see them all.

They are not few, and they certainly aren't minor. It's far worse than that — see the issues thread for a (far from complete) list.


Aahh, guess that explains it then.
I normally only look at the game to move ore around while mining so I'd never really notice any of the bugs. Wink

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.10.04 15:09:00 - [36]
 

People are up in arms about it because Patch 1.1 is a pile of dog poop.

Sure, the "align to bookmark" feature is awesome, but not at the price of making an already poor UI even worse. The UI right now is so unstable the overview is barely usable and even your module controls like to change their display mode on you with no warning.

What this patch shows is how outdated our UI is and gives insight into how poor of shape that code base must be in for such minor changes to cause it to become so unstable. Seems to me there needs to be teams assigned to a ground-up UI rewrite, starting with giving us A DAMN FONT THAT IS MODERN FOR THIS CENTURY... ie: one that we can tell B from 8 and 1's from L's amd 0's from O's, etc...

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2010.10.04 15:17:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Tyber Zaan
Edited by: Tyber Zaan on 04/10/2010 13:25:13
Seriously. The new bugs aren't that bad. They are inconvenient or annoying at worst. CCP causes a few minor UI bugs and, judging by the prevailing attitude on the forums, people are ready to march on CCP's HQ and burn it to the ground.

edit: grammatical mistake.


I don't know about "up-in-arms" ... I get more of a sense of Systems-Normal-All- f - up . Maybe the better term is "dissapointed" or "pfft" or "WTF .. common' guys"

All of a sudden a bunch of simple things but sometimes pretty vital to the game like people in your alliance showing up grey in your overview more frequently or sometimes not being able to open the information on your character sheet --

well it sota sets the expectation that they don't really have a firm grasp on things and maybe we should continue to expect something on a more "hobbiest" level.... you know.. like a few friends couoked up a program in their afterwork time and you'd look past the problems knowing that they had only so much time to work on it..

You would haze your friends a bit if they broke things they already had working while trying to fix another error.

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.10.04 15:24:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
Originally by: Tyber Zaan
Edited by: Tyber Zaan on 04/10/2010 13:25:13
Seriously. The new bugs aren't that bad. They are inconvenient or annoying at worst. CCP causes a few minor UI bugs and, judging by the prevailing attitude on the forums, people are ready to march on CCP's HQ and burn it to the ground.

edit: grammatical mistake.


I don't know about "up-in-arms" ... I get more of a sense of Systems-Normal-All- f - up . Maybe the better term is "dissapointed" or "pfft" or "WTF .. common' guys"

All of a sudden a bunch of simple things but sometimes pretty vital to the game like people in your alliance showing up grey in your overview more frequently or sometimes not being able to open the information on your character sheet --

well it sota sets the expectation that they don't really have a firm grasp on things and maybe we should continue to expect something on a more "hobbiest" level.... you know.. like a few friends couoked up a program in their afterwork time and you'd look past the problems knowing that they had only so much time to work on it..

You would haze your friends a bit if they broke things they already had working while trying to fix another error.


It is reasonable to expect a lot more polish in updates to a 7+ year old game than this patch.

I mean, the UI bugs were so egregious that all it would have taken was 5 minutes messing with the overview in a situation where standings, etc are important (ie: 0.0) to put a "showstopper" on the patch. I guess it's not just the CSM that are 0.0 pvp neophytes, CCP's Q/A are too.

It's this kind of inexcusable sloppiness that gives a bad impression. Then again, didn't a producer state more or less that polish to game features doesn't sell the game? That person should then study WOW. I hate WOW and games like it, because I don't like the genre, but WOW was very innovative in one respect: It was the first MMO to release feature complete with a high level of polish to them. Not that it didn't have it's problems but it had far less of them than any MMO to date or since.

We're talking about a 7 year old game here. CCP should be capable of delivering a minor patch with some UI tweaks without breaking the whole works, and they should certainly have strong enough Q/A involved to make sure such a patch is in good working order AND a manager in charge of them with enough authority to CANCEL OR DELAY the patch until it is.


Barakkus
Posted - 2010.10.04 15:26:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Barakkus on 04/10/2010 15:29:24
I'm generally very tolerant of bugs, I'm a developer, I know the pains of putting out a patch and then all kinds of bugs start showing up...actually happened to me Friday and I spent all day fixing and redeploying multiple times.

The current bugs have gotten past the point of mild irritation...when your windows end up all over the screen every time you log in and disapear on you when you undock, repeatedly, it's past mild irritation.

The fact that someone decided to move the position of the pointer when you drag items to the middle of the icon is more than irritating b/c half the time you try to drag something somewhere and it ends up somewhere else.

Fitting modules and getting error messages about the module already being online, everything showing up correctly in the fitting screen then when you undock every single module is offline is a ****ing pain in the ass, you have to redock, strip the fittings and make sure you load non-packaged modules to your ship. That is a VERY irritating bug...thinking you got everything on your ship only to find everything offline when you warp somewhere is a MAJOR pain in the ass.

Dreeepa
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2010.10.04 15:27:00 - [40]
 

Its hilarious to read this whining. In order to make things better, they WILL be broken (at first). Thats software develoment.
The alternative is having a game never improving. And you know whats gonna happen then, right? You guys whining at nothing happening.

It doesnt matter what CCP does, you arrogant and ignorant fools will always find something to whine about. All those comments just show one thing: You dont know jack about working on a big code base that evolved over many years.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.10.04 15:31:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 04/10/2010 15:32:22
Originally by: Dreeepa
Its hilarious to read this whining. In order to make things better, they WILL be broken (at first). Thats software develoment.
No. That's sloppy development. Yes, things will get broken along the line — that's why you don't release it quite yet. As far as anyone can tell, there was nothing in this patch that was absolutely critical to get out the door, so why did they release it? What were the dependencies for new features released in this patch that required them to deploy a back-end that wasn't finished?
Quote:
All those comments just show one thing: You dont know jack about working on a big code base that evolved over many years.
They show something else too: neither does CCP.

Barakkus
Posted - 2010.10.04 15:36:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Barakkus on 04/10/2010 15:36:29
Originally by: Dreeepa
All those comments just show one thing: You dont know jack about working on a big code base that evolved over many years.


Those of us who do, think that some of these mistakes should have been patched already (ie the supplemental patch they released over the weekend).

Some of these bugs should have never made it past QA.

Oh, and tip for everyone having trouble with your windows, don't pin them, they will generally behave correctly if you log off and they aren't pinned. You can pin them while playing, but unpin them before you log off so they don't end up all over the place or missing.

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.10.04 15:40:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Tippia

Quote:
All those comments just show one thing: You dont know jack about working on a big code base that evolved over many years.
They show something else too: neither does CCP.


That's the scary part...

I've always wondered if CCP's Iceland location would someday prove to be a handicap on being able to properly staff the game with not only talented Devs but competent coders and testers. It might be time to move this work to a place like Atlanta, or even consider opening a new studio in Austin (where a lot of MMO talent lives) to farm this sort of work out to.

Having worked in Q/A for IBM, I can tell you that CCP (and pretty much all other MMO publishers) dont' run anything that remotely resembles Q/A as it's really done. CCP's Q/A tests to see if the patch runs, installs, and doesn't crash the PC. They don't test new features thoroughly, nor do they do regression testing to make sure that other connected features weren't broken by the patch. If they did, the bugs would have been seen.

NickSuccorso
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.10.04 15:50:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Tyber Zaan
Edited by: Tyber Zaan on 04/10/2010 13:25:13
Seriously. The new bugs aren't that bad. They are inconvenient or annoying at worst. CCP causes a few minor UI bugs and, judging by the prevailing attitude on the forums, people are ready to march on CCP's HQ and burn it to the ground.

edit: grammatical mistake.


Yea, people should be happy paying for something that is "inconvenient or annoying at worst"

HeIIfire11
Posted - 2010.10.04 16:04:00 - [45]
 

What gets me is that some of the bugs have been on the test server and have been reported.I noticed the overview bugs whithin the first minute.And the icons,this was on sisi a few weeks ago.

[ 2010.09.03 04:25:08 ] CommanderCK > Is anyone else getting the oversized item icons in contracts?
[ 2010.09.03 04:26:00 ] guska Cryotank > oh hot damn
[ 2010.09.03 04:26:08 ] guska Cryotank > on the available contracts page right?
[ 2010.09.03 04:26:09 ] CommanderCK > ?
[ 2010.09.03 04:26:11 ] CommanderCK > yeah
[ 2010.09.03 04:26:17 ] CommanderCK > It's just items though
[ 2010.09.03 04:26:19 ] guska Cryotank > yeah, I got it too
[ 2010.09.03 04:26:22 ] CommanderCK > The normal contract icon is normal
[ 2010.09.03 04:26:29 ] CommanderCK > normal sized*
[ 2010.09.03 04:26:59 ] guska Cryotank > but the ones where it's a single type of item it's hyooge
[ 2010.09.03 04:27:19 ] guska Cryotank > it's market window size
[ 2010.09.03 04:27:23 ] CommanderCK > Yay! I'm helping to fix a bug
[ 2010.09.03 04:27:24 ] HeIIfire11 > yeah..me too
[ 2010.09.03 04:27:33 ] HeIIfire11 > covers the name a bit
[ 2010.09.03 04:27:36 ] guska Cryotank > yeah nice catch CK
[ 2010.09.03 04:27:49 ] CommanderCK > I don't know what possessed me to open contracts :v
[ 2010.09.03 04:27:56 ] guska Cryotank > file the report, screen shot etc
[ 2010.09.03 04:28:00 ] CommanderCK > already done
[ 2010.09.03 04:28:06 ] CommanderCK > ID 99956
[ 2010.09.03 04:28:09 ] guska Cryotank > yeah I don't generally use contracts on SiSi
[ 2010.09.03 04:28:12 ] CommanderCK > Almost 100k bugs O_o
[ 2010.09.03 04:28:36 ] guska Cryotank > a lot of those will be for spelling errors and graphical hiccups too though
[ 2010.09.03 04:28:52 ] CommanderCK > or people not thinking :v
[ 2010.09.03 04:28:58 ] guska Cryotank > yeah that too
[ 2010.09.03 04:29:05 ] CommanderCK > I made one where I thought my PI commodities were vanishing on import

Ghoest
Posted - 2010.10.04 16:11:00 - [46]
 

Im thinking maybe they decided to get all this ugly stuff out of the way before the expansion.

That way their will be less complaints from the fan sites and reviewers about the expansion itself, this time.

Narisa Bithon
Caldari
The Motley Crew Reborn
Posted - 2010.10.04 16:14:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Narisa Bithon on 04/10/2010 16:16:07
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 04/10/2010 14:17:06
Originally by: Narisa Bithon
why is it carebears get blamed for alot of the bugs in eve.
Because…

…look at your list again, and figure which group is more used to working around the… ehm… foibles of EVE, and then take a moment to think who'd be more shocked that, suddenly, out of nowhere, something would come around and affect their particular game experience.

(And that's without even touching on the notion that carebears, by their very nature, will be far more likely to complain about how their own particular needs aren't met.)


carebears have had to put up with failings in eve that benefit pvp'ers for years... suicide ganking vs untankable mining barges for one.

for years piracy got lots of buffs, then the supercaps got a buff and sov warfare got changed cos pvp'ers whined about having to blow up every pos in a system, pi gets half introduced and carebears get blamed for eve being so broken... thats a lil unfair..

the lag issue has little to do with pi tbh the new sov system & proliferation of supercarriers probably caused the lag issues more.

Ira Theos
Posted - 2010.10.04 16:22:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Messoroz
One of the best bugs is having ships that have been cynoed onto the grid show up as completely neutral, missing all tickers and standing. Yea way to **** up cap fights CCP.

**********************

Actually this sounds like a novel way to solve the "blob".. You know, the more that show up, the more info disappears... chaos ensues..Very Happy

HeIIfire11
Posted - 2010.10.04 16:23:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 04/10/2010 16:28:49
Originally by: Barakkus
Fitting modules and getting error messages about the module already being online, everything showing up correctly in the fitting screen then when you undock every single module is offline is a ****ing pain in the ass, you have to redock, strip the fittings and make sure you load non-packaged modules to your ship. That is a VERY irritating bug...thinking you got everything on your ship only to find everything offline when you warp somewhere is a MAJOR pain in the ass.


This was on sisi too.

And Im not even going to comment on the carebear comments from Tippia,he needs to get a life.I see more pvpers complaining than carebears.Not that it matters anyway.Game bugs out for everyone because of the patch.

@ Tippia..what carebear ****ed in your soup?You must have got owned pretty hard to be that ignorant.

And as far as carebears getting more stuff,i see a lot of ships made for pvp only and of no use to a carebear.Show me a ship made for them..that acommodates the ******ed fittings needed to do missions.Mining ships could use a buff too but I see no talk about thatRolling Eyes

Dlardrageth
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Posted - 2010.10.04 16:37:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Narisa Bithon
Edited by: Narisa Bithon on 04/10/2010 16:16:07
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 04/10/2010 14:17:06
Originally by: Narisa Bithon
why is it carebears get blamed for alot of the bugs in eve.
Because…

…look at your list again, and figure which group is more used to working around the… ehm… foibles of EVE, and then take a moment to think who'd be more shocked that, suddenly, out of nowhere, something would come around and affect their particular game experience.

(And that's without even touching on the notion that carebears, by their very nature, will be far more likely to complain about how their own particular needs aren't met.)


carebears have had to put up with failings in eve that benefit pvp'ers for years... suicide ganking vs untankable mining barges for one.

for years piracy got lots of buffs, then the supercaps got a buff and sov warfare got changed cos pvp'ers whined about having to blow up every pos in a system, pi gets half introduced and carebears get blamed for eve being so broken... thats a lil unfair..

the lag issue has little to do with pi tbh the new sov system & proliferation of supercarriers probably caused the lag issues more.


WTF? dOOd, which EVE did you play these last few years? Shocked

1. Claiming that "suicide ganking vs untankable mining barge" is a major benefit to PvPers is pretty silly. Do you really think the majority of PvPers has nothing else to do than hunt Procurers or what? Shows how much of a clue you're lacking with regards to PvP.

2. If piracy were so overpowered due to frequent buffs, why isn't low-sec bursting with people everywhere, hm? And don't get on these "awesome" changes to Sov Warfare that are nowhere near anything the ppl concerned with it wanted. More than a few nullsec inhabitants would currenty prefer to have the old system back, as the new one is a major PITA.

3. I don't know about supercarriers, weren't that many around when I still could be bothered to frequently play, but "the new sov system" being responsible for lag issues? You seriously are trying to make us believe that when I get lag in a NPC 0.0 region on jumping between empty systems (or at least traffic controls) frequently, that is due to Sov mechanics? When you cannot even claim Sov in NPC 0.0?

Your stuff reads about as reasonable as someone claiming that Jita local scams are responsible for 0.0 node crashes. Unrelated much? Rolling Eyes

HalfArse
Posted - 2010.10.04 16:37:00 - [51]
 

what UI bugs?

Urgg Boolean
Posted - 2010.10.04 16:41:00 - [52]
 

Seems like salt in a festering wound to me. Seems like we are forever forced to find work-arounds. What, the UI is headed to become one giant set of work-arounds? Is it too much to ask that it actually works?

Currently, the UI has difficulty spawning windows, which is one of the most basic functions a UI can perform. Also, the object inheritance rules for window generation have been borked as long as I've been in the game. Look, any stupid new grad with a degree in computer science should be able to write a healthy and efficient object-oriented window spawning routine. And the alleged professionals at CCP can't get it right?

And you think this picture is okay? Pardon me, but I have higher expectations.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.10.04 16:52:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Narisa Bithon
carebears have had to put up with failings in eve that benefit pvp'ers for years... suicide ganking vs untankable mining barges for one.
That's not a sudden and ignored bug on CCP's part, though. But it kind of proves that other point: carebears are prone to complain regardless of whether it's the expected or the unexpected that happens… Wink

Either way, the complain the most when they have the least to complain about, and thus make themselves easy targets for meta-whines.
Originally by: HeIIfire11
@ Tippia..what carebear ****ed in your soup?
The ones who keep complaining about non-issues and the ones who complain when they have next to nothing to complain about.
Quote:
And as far as carebears getting more stuff,i see a lot of ships made for pvp only and of no use to a carebear.Show me a ship made for them..that acommodates the ******ed fittings needed to do missions.Mining ships could use a buff too but I see no talk about thatRolling Eyes
Counter-question: when was the last time the PvPers got something new? The faction ship revamp last year manly benefited mission-runners; the Orca and now the Noctis are very much aimed at perceived "carebearing" activities; the Marauder class is almost entirely geared towards PvE; and plenty of people talk about buffing the mining ships (but those suggestion are usually geared towards increasing output, which would only be counter-productive).

HeIIfire11
Posted - 2010.10.04 17:32:00 - [54]
 

First of all..all of us complain.I see loads of omg nerf the afk cloakers,or omg lag killed me,or blob this blob that.They all complain about what it is thats the biggest problem for them.

Honestly I think this hate for carebears comes from the fact that low sec is empty.Around half of the players dont want to be involved with the lameness going on there.And the so called pvpers are ****ed because others dont want to play their way.Meaning less targets for them.

All I can say is call a waaaambulance and get over it.Its not that they dont want to play with the so called pvpers its that the game machanics suck at the moment.The balance between isk earned and lost is off.It just isnt right to grind two days to replace a ship lost in a min or two.Ive said it many times.Ive done pvp on my main,im carebearing now and honestly I would love to pvp more but I hate grinding all day to replace a few minutes of fun.I dont have all day to grind anyway so a bs loss would take me like 4 days to replace.Fail on ccps side..not the carebears.And if this isnt somehow fixed soon I will leave eve because its just no fun for me anymore.I know no one cares but guess what?I dont either.

And if its not the balance of isk earned/loss then fix it another way.Stop the lamers from camping all the gates.You would get a lot more targets.

You arent a dumb person Tippia..a little hard headed but far from dumb.You cant tell me that you dont see the bigger picture hereRolling Eyes

Barakkus
Posted - 2010.10.04 17:37:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: HeIIfire11
Honestly I think this hate for carebears comes from the fact that low sec is empty.


Notrly, it's just human nature to see who has the biggest e-peen in mmos. Anyone that is percieved as not being "hardcore" enough gets labeled a carebear and ridiculed. Even in non-pvp games, if you're not part of the 1337 raider crowd etc you're a carebear and must be ridiculed because your e-peen is too small.. Laughing

Orange Lagomorph
Posted - 2010.10.04 17:43:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Counter-question: when was the last time the PvPers got something new?


Since the high end of PvP these days involves gargantuan swathes of supercapital ships, allow me to pose a counter-counter-question:

What do you give a man who already has everything?

Actually, what we need is an anti-blob ship class — perhaps an AoE damage dealer that dispenses damage based directly on how many enemy ships are on the same grid. The damage would scale to ship mass/signature radius.

Against 25 enemy ships, the damage would simply be annoying. Against 50, it would pose a real problem, but nothing major. Against 75, it would essentially cripple the fleet. Against 100 or more ships, it's brown trouser time... the only choice is dispersal or retreat.

Will never happen and everyone except me will hate that idea, but I'd be in Heaven.

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.10.04 17:45:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Orange Lagomorph
Will never happen and everyone except me will hate that idea, but I'd be in Heaven.


I think it's a terrific idea. Maybe something like an electrical charge that jumps from ship to ship.

HeIIfire11
Posted - 2010.10.04 17:50:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 04/10/2010 17:58:26
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 04/10/2010 17:57:11
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Honestly I think this hate for carebears comes from the fact that low sec is empty.


Notrly, it's just human nature to see who has the biggest e-peen in mmos. Anyone that is percieved as not being "hardcore" enough gets labeled a carebear and ridiculed. Even in non-pvp games, if you're not part of the 1337 raider crowd etc you're a carebear and must be ridiculed because your e-peen is too small.. Laughing



Yes thats almost true but I agree whats been said before.Eve has a very mature player base.You will always have your rl losers that need to boost their ego in a game.But I think thats not the main problem here,if it was low sec would be full of competition,and It would be fail to hang in high sec.But as you see the pirates in jita seem to think they have a pretty big e-peen.And its not human nature..its a childish human nature.The rest of us arent satisfied unless we know we won a fair fight,thats having a big e-peen.

Picking on the weak is a sign of insecurity..psychologie 101Rolling Eyes

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.10.04 17:54:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
I think it's a terrific idea. Maybe something like an electrical charge that jumps from ship to ship.
Oh god… nasty back door La(g)sher / Maelstrom spam flashbacks!11 ARGH!

Laughing

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.04 18:14:00 - [60]
 

trying to turn my guns on dont seem to be working mmmm how to play game


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