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blankseplocked Feedback on Menu Changes [Updated after new Sisi build]
 
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Orb Lati
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.10.03 20:28:00 - [31]
 

TBH. after reading Camios suggestion, if you implemented keyboard shortcuts into drop down menus, ordering would become less important.
Its the unnecessary additional mouse movements which players will find most annoying.

gpfault
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.10.03 23:51:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: CCP karkur
14. “stuff I don’t want to click by accident” group

...

14.
Abandon all nearby containers
Abandon Wreck
jettison
jump to member
warp fleet
warp to within X


I can't agree with that. When you press warp there is usually a few seconds of aligning time where you can hit ctl+space to cancel warp so it shouldn't be regarded as "scary". Another problem is that having something as commonly used as "warp to x" grouped with “stuff I don’t want to click by accident” kind of defeats the point since the more often you need to use items in that part of the menu, the higher the chance of misclicking and something going horribly wrong (accidently warping fleet comes to mind).

Moving "warp to x" into nav group 1 and bumping the navigation groups above show info would be nice.

Luthair StoneDog
Gallente
Diabolus Ex Machina
The Amazing Onjoi and his Educated Rodents
Posted - 2010.10.04 04:22:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Luthair StoneDog on 04/10/2010 04:28:27
How about this...


My modified version of Trebor's list.

3. Navigation group1 (+ warp to)
-------------------
4. Navigation group2 (Which includes warp fleet, warp fleet to x and jump to member)
-------------------
5. "Target" group
-------------------
2. Options with subentries (planets, gates, stations, for example)
-------------------
6. characters/contacts group
7. characters group
-------------------
8. OLD MENU
-------------------
9. Trade group
-------------------
1. Show info group
-------------------
10. Containers/holds group
-------------------
11. Corp group
-------------------
12. Changing stuff group
-------------------
13. Selection group
-------------------
14. “stuff I don’t want to click by accident” group
-------------------
15. “stuff I REALLY don’t want to click by accident” group

Mister Swift
Caldari
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2010.10.04 07:42:00 - [34]
 

Thank you CCP karkur and Trebor for making this happen :)

Paranoid Lemming
Posted - 2010.10.04 08:03:00 - [35]
 

1) Can groups be coloured? (bonus: user can change colours)
2) Would it be possible to have user configurable menu's similar to the overview configuration? In other words, if I prefer having a group higher up I can configure them in a seperate menu [UP][DOWN].


Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.10.04 08:42:00 - [36]
 

Wait a second.. the menu items can't be easily regrouped?
How is this going to work for Dust or WoD then?
Don't they use the GUI from EVE as a corified module later on?
Can't you invest the work needed to make THAT happen now and give us a fully customizable UI later on instead of this taped version?

If I would have my say I would vote for a quad menu.. which I can customize by myself and especially share with others (import/export) pretty please.

So if there leads any way to fully user customizable menus, please go this one instead the all-have-to-eat-the-same-cake solution we've had until now.

Mister Swift
Caldari
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2010.10.04 08:55:00 - [37]
 

Customizable menu order (Client side Edit/Author mode) sounds like a great idea, but unfortunately also sounds a great deal harder (and more likely to break things) than simply swapping around existing menu items.

Nuts Nougat
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2010.10.04 09:34:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Mister Swift
Customizable menu order (Client side Edit/Author mode) sounds like a great idea, but unfortunately also sounds a great deal harder (and more likely to break things) than simply swapping around existing menu items.
How is this harder to do? It's just moving strings around a config file and then displaying them in the correct order in the window. If they're doing reordering, they might as well do full customization now.

Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
Posted - 2010.10.04 11:04:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Nuts Nougat
If they're doing reordering, they might as well do full customization now.


This. Also everything Tonto said...

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.10.04 11:13:00 - [40]
 

To answer some questions (CCP karkur, please correct me if I am wrong):

* I personally think that menu shortcuts of some sort are a good idea, but they are outside of the scope of this particular project. Please keep in mind that this was a ninja project by CCP karkur, largely implemented on her own time. It wasn't originally in the Winter Expansion release plan.

I would love Camios to put up a proposal thread in AH about this, though. I think he has the core of a decent idea, but there are some issues (like localization) that need to be considered and debated.

* Ditto with color-coding, AFAIK. This was actually suggested during the CSM discussions.

* User preferences for menu-reorganization: CCP karkur will have to answer that one.

* Luthair StoneDog's ordering: seems good.

Jack Coutu
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2010.10.04 14:37:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
I'm going to be blunt:

Trebor, you're an idiot.




The menu does not need to be changed. If anything, the menus in Eve are the one thing that should never be changed, as players who use them realize that if you click that button, you had to press a button prior to that to activate a context menu. I say, if you think a button is dangerous then get the hell out of my game.


Almost everyone else disagrees with you, but then again that's the norm isn't it?


Xydros
Veto.
Posted - 2010.10.04 15:44:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow


* Ditto with color-coding, AFAIK. This was actually suggested during the CSM discussions.




Please god no color coding unless I can change the setting of it.

I am Color Blind and its already bad enough I can't see heat on modules since CCP removed Widescreen.

Please don't screw me over any harder.

I realize I am in a very small minority on this tho....

Snowmann
Posted - 2010.10.04 19:15:00 - [43]
 

Individual "Warp to" and "Warp Fleet" should be in two different places on the menu.

I like the "Warp to" in the Nav panes up top, but the "Warp Squad/Wing/Fleet" should be near the bottom as previously suggested.

I can't count how many times someone in a fleet has accidently warped the whole squad/wing/fleet by mistake.

Some other commands that should be seperate from each other...

"Jump to"
"Bridge to"

"Activate Ship"
"Trash it"
"Sell"
"reprocess"


Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.10.04 21:10:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Xydros
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow


* Ditto with color-coding, AFAIK. This was actually suggested during the CSM discussions.




Please god no color coding unless I can change the setting of it.

I am Color Blind and its already bad enough I can't see heat on modules since CCP removed Widescreen.

Please don't screw me over any harder.

I realize I am in a very small minority on this tho....

Accommodations for color-blind players are high-up on my list of UI tweak priorities -- just about every UI proposal I have sponsored has a special discussion of this issue. My personal suggestion is that CCP define a set of standard UI colors (for example, "ok", "caution", "alert", "OMFG!", and "PWND!"), and let players set these standard colors any way they want, to permit personal preference and handle the various types of color-blindness.

In this case, we were thinking that just coloring the "dangerous" menu items red -- as an additional cue -- might be a reasonable idea. But as I said, it's outside of the scope of what CCP karkur can commit to this time around.

I would welcome a broad proposal in the AH that specifically addresses UI issues of concern to color-blind players and makes some global proposals and guideline suggestions. I think it would be particularly helpful to have such a proposal handy so that the UI devs can keep it in the back of their minds.

Trumpkin
Posted - 2010.10.04 22:19:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Murderers Apprentice
also pls move warp to back to top Very Happy


Best idea Ever!!

Ephemeral Waves
Silver Snake Enterprise
Posted - 2010.10.05 04:16:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Ephemeral Waves on 05/10/2010 04:27:12
I'm not sure what stupid thought process determined that the market's #1-most-used-ever command... "buy item" should be moved to the bottom of the menu. Move it back to the top.

Edit: I tried to buy 15 things on sisi...When I was finished I had 15 info windows and no items - and a lot of "10"s entered in local chat. Stop being ******ed and put the menus back where they belong.

CorryBasler
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.10.05 04:48:00 - [47]
 

i for one don't like it at all, as well as many other people on sisi.

it takes much more time to navigate the menu's, and if someone was stupid enough to trash something thats their own damn fault.. you get like 2-3 warning messages before it acculy goes away Mad

Svintus
Minmatar
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.10.05 05:09:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Svintus on 05/10/2010 05:11:56
When i saw this on sisi yesterday i thought it is some sort of bug. It is very uncomfortable. My "hands memory" often makes me click on wrong menu item, because the right item is elsewhere.

Most cool solution will be fully customizable menus.

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2010.10.05 07:21:00 - [49]
 

SO just figured I'd post here on behalf of other people who are in agreement that moving things like jump for gates and warp to for celestials anywhere but the top is a terrible and annoying idea.


Minchurra
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.05 07:28:00 - [50]
 

Implementing a change this big would be unwise without providing an option for people to choose between the old and the new settings.

I too spent 30 seconds fumbling trying to find the warp to button Razz

Trhamp Sthamp
Caldari
Robot Tech Labs
Posted - 2010.10.05 15:25:00 - [51]
 

I really like the idea of having a config file to allow US to control what items go where. Even better, be able to switch setups on the fly. For instance, you can assign a right-click menu setup to the current overview tab you are using.

-TS

T'Amber
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.10.05 16:43:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Trhamp Sthamp
I really like the idea of having a config file to allow US to control what items go where. Even better, be able to switch setups on the fly. For instance, you can assign a right-click menu setup to the current overview tab you are using.

-TS


This is a great Idea, along with some more shortcuts and recently used menu items..
But I think you'll find this is being done on the devs spare time and these are outside the scope of this idea.

The coolest thing about this is that we now know that this code is accessable and not lost within the vast tombs of eve code that no-one wants to touch with a twenty two foot pole and there is someone in-the-know who has access.

-T'amber

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2010.10.05 17:15:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Luthair StoneDog
Edited by: Luthair StoneDog on 04/10/2010 04:28:27
How about this...


My modified version of Trebor's list.

3. Navigation group1 (+ warp to)
-------------------
4. Navigation group2 (Which includes warp fleet, warp fleet to x and jump to member)
-------------------
5. "Target" group
-------------------
2. Options with subentries (planets, gates, stations, for example)
-------------------
6. characters/contacts group
7. characters group
-------------------
8. OLD MENU
-------------------
9. Trade group
-------------------
1. Show info group
-------------------
10. Containers/holds group
-------------------
11. Corp group
-------------------
12. Changing stuff group
-------------------
13. Selection group
-------------------
14. “stuff I don’t want to click by accident” group
-------------------
15. “stuff I REALLY don’t want to click by accident” group

This looks best to me.

The only better option would be user customization.

CCP karkur

Posted - 2010.10.05 19:12:00 - [54]
 

OK, I think we all agree that "warp to" needs to be moved back.
I know that some of you have problems with the position of "show info" and "buy this", and we will take a look at that, but are there any other options you have a problem with?

Allowing you to reorder the groups will require some extra work, and is out of scope for now.

Krynsa
Posted - 2010.10.05 19:26:00 - [55]
 

I'd rather they not change and if you insist on changing, provide an option to change them back.

The market buying and warp locations at current are atrocious.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.10.05 21:43:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: CCP karkur
OK, I think we all agree that "warp to" needs to be moved back.
I know that some of you have problems with the position of "show info" and "buy this", and we will take a look at that, but are there any other options you have a problem with?

Allowing you to reorder the groups will require some extra work, and is out of scope for now.


About 99% of all old menu items was in sensible places. What really needed is a strict group assignemnt and no less strict pinning of items to the groups. With no things like "Place this group second but the first thing of it on top of all else".

Oh, and "Show Info" on bottom, please... It is just a habit trained by all interfaces to search for help on the bottom of menu, and "Show Info" is surely falling into "help me on this" category.

Quesa
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.10.06 03:04:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Quesa on 06/10/2010 03:05:44
After using this menu for 5 years, it would be a horrible mistake to just make a change without first giving people the functionality to group and list items the way they would like.

Fractions of a second determine life and death in combat and moving the warp to selection down to the bottom of a menu is such a horrible idea.

So, either leave it exactly the same or allow us to customize our menu. That really is the only rational thing to do.

Xailia
Unsteady Corporation
Posted - 2010.10.06 03:13:00 - [58]
 

If the menu is changing, I would suggest moving back to the radial menu system back at the beginning of EVE. You have more precision and less chance to miss click.

Velvet69
eXceed Inc.
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.10.06 15:38:00 - [59]
 

As far as I’m concerned, there are only 2 problems with the right click menu.

These are ‘trash it’ (ships and modules) and ‘offline’ (for POS and POS mods). Everything else is fine.

Move these 2 to the bottom of the list, preferably with a gap between the last and 2nd last in the list and the job is done.


Widemouth Deepthroat
Posted - 2010.10.06 16:36:00 - [60]
 

Personally I think current TQ menu is fine. I would hate to see warp to etc (the most used menu options) moved lower in the menu, even if that means trash ship stays in it's current position.


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