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blankseplocked Enemy Stealth Bombers in a mining system. A becomming curse.
 
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.01 15:55:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: AFK Master
So what you're saying is, you've lost the argument and now want to talk about gangs of AFK pilots and cynos.

This all boils down to fear and intelligence. You fear me in local and are not clever enough to use another system.
It's about AFK cloakers spewing "RISK FOR U!11" while praying CCP doesnt' take their PVP flags away.

And lulz at your comment about me losing the argument Laughing. You haven't brought up a single reason why AFK cloakers SHOULDN'T have to face risk like the rest of 0.0 dwellers.

You keep spewing this is a game of risk and PVP, except when it come to yourself, that is.


AFK Master
AFK Chartered System Management
Posted - 2010.10.01 15:59:00 - [242]
 

The risk comes to both, when I engage in combat. The rest is in your head.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:00:00 - [243]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 01/10/2010 16:01:54
Originally by: Hauling Hal
Err, so you can do your activities with no risk? See the irony here?
You're trying hard and STILL getting nowhere. NOWHERE I'm a suggesting the risk for miners, ratters, or whoever be lessened. WHAT I AM suggesting is that cloakers, you know, the ones that don't pay attention for days at a time, either are logged off automatically or are forced to pay attention like everyone else in 0.0.

I have ZERO PROBLEMS with a cloaker stalking prey for hours even days AS LONG AS HE HIMSELF is paying attention and watching out, not at the movies eating popcorn Rolling Eyes forcing his prey to tire out. That's just lazy play.

Originally by: AFK Master
The risk comes to both, when I engage in combat. The rest is in your head.
Laughing Dude, now I know you're just trolling me.


Simetraz
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:03:00 - [244]
 

I want to thank CCP for the next patch which will be giving us the ability to probe out cloaked ships.
I understand it will only get me within 200-300 km from the cloaked ship but that is perfectly fine.
I have lots of time on my hands and if the cloaked ship is foolish enough to go afk and/or not pay attention they will get what they deserve.

Thanks again for your support.

flummox
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:05:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: flummox
and the rest of you guys need to stop the Remove Local debate. it's been going on for years. and it's not even a solution for anything but your paranoia. the local channel is generated by the stargate that you use to jump in (kinda assuming this, but). if you want no local channel, then go to W-Space. as long as you are in a system that can have sovereignty, you'll have local.

DEAL !
But only if coming into any system without using a stargate makes me NOT show up in local.
Twisted Evil



being in a system... with a stargate... generates your name... in local chat...

a system... with the ability... to have sovereignty... generates a list... of players in that system... regardless of how you enter...

they created completely safe, non-local chat space for all the people who didn't like local chat in their 0.0. it's called wormhole space. i suggest you guys go use that if you want to [semi]afk mine or rat or touch yourself.

you may also afk touch yourself in low and high sec space. see if you can do that in all 5000+ systems.

pics or it didn't happen...

AFK CEO
AFK Chartered System Management
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:06:00 - [246]
 

Master, stop with the mind games, you're upsetting the kids.

baltec1
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:06:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: baltec1
So set a trap?
This only works the for the minutes they decide to actually pay attention to the screen. An AFK cloaker AFK for 2 or 3 days, you don't know when he'll make the attack, but rest assured HE WILL. Do the math. You're forcing players to spend time on a trap for someone that may or may not take the bait. Why should active players at the keyboard PAYING FULL ATTENTION be the only ones to have to work to try and mitigate the influence of a player that isn't paying attention and that eventually WILL attack? Why shouldn't the cloaker have to put in some work too?

If yo'ure logged in and in space then you should either have to face some risk like everyone else or be automatically logged off.




So you don't rat in a fleet then? or have pvp ships ready and waiting in station?

Ok well if you cannot be bothered in taking steps to have a fleet waiting to respond to calls for help how about keeping alingned to station/safe/pos? Cant kill anything that runs the second I pop up.

flummox
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:12:00 - [248]
 

Originally by: Marli Khan

I'm so flummoxed. You're upset because someone who is AFK faces zero risk? You realize that someone who is AFK also poses zero threat, right?


no, man. i trully think they don't realize it... 8)

BlondieBC
Minmatar
Galactic Exploration and Missions
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:19:00 - [249]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Well mining is still doable with one red SB in local if you got a zealot to guard your mining op, which isnt too unreasonable. With two red SBs in local you cant mine anymore and the mining index will just drop to zero: since two bombs will kill any mining ship afaik, and a zealot isnt going to do anything about that. And dont come with crap like staying alligned, it is completely unreasonable to expect a miner to be alligned all the time while the afk cloaker is completely risk free hanging in space.

And that is what it all comes down to, afk cloakers are scared of any risk in eve.

With two invulernabilty fields II, Sheild Extender, Damage Control, a hulk can take 8 to 11 Bombs.
Two SB can be laughed at.
If a fleet has a Zealot, a shield logistics, and 8 hulks, it can laugh at 3 to 5 bombers, all day long.



MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:21:00 - [250]
 

Originally by: baltec1
So you don't rat in a fleet then? or have pvp ships ready and waiting in station?

Ok well if you cannot be bothered in taking steps to have a fleet waiting to respond to calls for help how about keeping alingned to station/safe/pos? Cant kill anything that runs the second I pop up.
And what do you suggest we do to keep cloakers paying attention to the game as well Rolling Eyes? Or should paying attention only apply to your targets?


BlondieBC
Minmatar
Galactic Exploration and Missions
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:22:00 - [251]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: flummox
and the rest of you guys need to stop the Remove Local debate. it's been going on for years. and it's not even a solution for anything but your paranoia. the local channel is generated by the stargate that you use to jump in (kinda assuming this, but). if you want no local channel, then go to W-Space. as long as you are in a system that can have sovereignty, you'll have local.

DEAL !
But only if coming into any system without using a stargate makes me NOT show up in local.
Twisted Evil



AND, if i remain in local while logged, AND, i stay in local until i cross the next stargate.
This idea actually makes sense. Then local is an important intel tool, but a limited, imperfect one.

Twisted Evil

Fouljin
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:24:00 - [252]
 

If you or your corp is doing some relaxing mining and a enemy stealth bombers warps in and cloaks and you run to your mama and cry why not counter that cloaky camping bomber with it's own medicine. All you need is a small fleet of your own stealthbomber and start launcing some bombs to that belt you think enemy is. Sure bombs are expensive but it's only isk! Also bring some tacklers / firepower in case the enemy desides to be stupid and fight back. If you dont have corp or alliance big or good enough to protect your belts and pilots, you are doing something wrong! No means to offend!

baltec1
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:26:00 - [253]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: baltec1
So you don't rat in a fleet then? or have pvp ships ready and waiting in station?

Ok well if you cannot be bothered in taking steps to have a fleet waiting to respond to calls for help how about keeping alingned to station/safe/pos? Cant kill anything that runs the second I pop up.
And what do you suggest we do to keep cloakers paying attention to the game as well Rolling Eyes? Or should paying attention only apply to your targets?




If you go ratting in a fleet it doesnt matter if they are afk or not. So long as you dont fail fit a bunch of drakes is more than enough to get rid of anthing that can warp cloaked.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:35:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: Nedefeg
Originally by: Liang Nuren
You know, I never hear threads about AFK cloakers from Wormhole inhabitants. They don't have local.

-Liang


Everyone mentions wh`s and uses that as an argument for removin local in 0.0

Now liang , answer me , how many people will bother PvE`ing 0.0 with no local assuming rewards remain the same?


My guess is that virtually all of them but the really risk averse will stay in 0.0. I mean, why wouldn't they stay and drink massive amounts of ISK from the ISK faucet?

Quote:
ANd you guys are still dodging this question: Is it reasonable for someone in 0.0 to take offensive action against someone else (argue all you want that afk cloakers arent there to take offensive action , you and me both know that argument is bull****) without ANY risk whatsoever to himself?


Please note that people being AFK in station and AFK at POSes are exactly equal to AFK cloakers. If I'm in your system terrorizing your miners, it is unfair that you should have backup that I cannot know if is coming to help save you. Rolling Eyes

-Liang

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:38:00 - [255]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 01/10/2010 16:40:17
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: baltec1
So you don't rat in a fleet then? or have pvp ships ready and waiting in station?

Ok well if you cannot be bothered in taking steps to have a fleet waiting to respond to calls for help how about keeping alingned to station/safe/pos? Cant kill anything that runs the second I pop up.
And what do you suggest we do to keep cloakers paying attention to the game as well Rolling Eyes? Or should paying attention only apply to your targets?




If you go ratting in a fleet it doesnt matter if they are afk or not. So long as you dont fail fit a bunch of drakes is more than enough to get rid of anthing that can warp cloaked.
And you're avoiding the question. The ratters are in a well-protected fleet, the miners are in a well-protected fleet as they should be. What is the cloaker having to sacrifice to stay alive? What predator is hunting him with even a slim chance of catching him? Who is HE worried will hunt him down if he's not paying attention while he watches pron? Rolling Eyes.


MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:42:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Please note that people being AFK in station and AFK at POSes are exactly equal to AFK cloakers.
All I can say to this is.... Wow Confused.


baltec1
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:46:00 - [257]
 

Edited by: baltec1 on 01/10/2010 16:48:26
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 01/10/2010 16:40:17
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: baltec1
So you don't rat in a fleet then? or have pvp ships ready and waiting in station?

Ok well if you cannot be bothered in taking steps to have a fleet waiting to respond to calls for help how about keeping alingned to station/safe/pos? Cant kill anything that runs the second I pop up.
And what do you suggest we do to keep cloakers paying attention to the game as well Rolling Eyes? Or should paying attention only apply to your targets?




If you go ratting in a fleet it doesnt matter if they are afk or not. So long as you dont fail fit a bunch of drakes is more than enough to get rid of anthing that can warp cloaked.
And you're avoiding the question. The ratters are in a well-protected fleet, the miners are in a well-protected fleet as they should be. What is the cloaker having to sacrifice to stay alive? What predator is hunting him with even a slim chance of catching him? Who is HE worried will hunt him down if he's not paying attention while he watches pron? Rolling Eyes.




The attacker cannot attack you without getting killed or driven off? What exactly are the well protected miners/ratters losing with him in local unable to do anything?

The answer we are looking at is nothing at all while the AFK cloaker is not getting anything done. So in the end the one who loses out is the guy who is AFK as they get nothing from being there.

Gashblight
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:47:00 - [258]
 

I didn't read all nine pages so forgive me if I'm repeating what's already been said but this comes off like an afk miner is *****ing about an afk pvp pilot and the irony is lol.

If you're not afk mining (lol sure) then you don't need 23/7 CAP. You only need protection while you're mining Op is under way and the stealth pilot will ether have to call in his fleet and try his luck against your defense, or go looking for an easier target. The amount of time he spends in system outside of your mining operation is irrelevant.

I'm stoked someone takes the effort to disrupt afk mining to be honest. All this I don't care if he's cloaked as long as he's really there is a huge pile of BS. Like any miner sits and watches the beams of light while they mine.

If this thread isn't nine pages of people ridiculing the OP then I'm disappointed.

flummox
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:49:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Gashblight

If this thread isn't nine pages of people ridiculing the OP then I'm disappointed.



it is. smile 8)

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:54:00 - [260]
 

Wait.. mineral prices are already falling because of oversupply and the miners want even more protection? Lol?!

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.01 16:55:00 - [261]
 

Originally by: baltec1
The attacker cannot attack you without getting killed or driven off? What exactly are the well protected miners/ratters losing with him in local unable to do anything?

The answer we are looking at is nothing at all while the AFK cloaker is not getting anything done. So in the end the one who loses out is the guy who is AFK as they get nothing from being there.
The attacker, in this case, has ALL THE CHOICES AND NONE OF THE RISKS. While the other side has to accomodate and prepare for WHATEVER CHOICE the cloaker makes.

In space the cloaker FORCES everyone to be in high alert while no one can force the cloaker to be in high alert. The cloaker CHOOSES who, when, where, how he attacks. And the attack is only made when the cloaker ticks his PVP flag on, not any second before. If the miner isn't ready tough luck. If the cloaker isn't ready... well then, hang on a minute or two, or three, or a day or two Wink. That's not balance. That's a PVP flag.


baltec1
Posted - 2010.10.01 17:15:00 - [262]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
The attacker, in this case, has ALL THE CHOICES AND NONE OF THE RISKS. While the other side has to accomodate and prepare for WHATEVER CHOICE the cloaker makes.

In space the cloaker FORCES everyone to be in high alert while no one can force the cloaker to be in high alert. The cloaker CHOOSES who, when, where, how he attacks. And the attack is only made when the cloaker ticks his PVP flag on, not any second before. If the miner isn't ready tough luck. If the cloaker isn't ready... well then, hang on a minute or two, or three, or a day or two Wink. That's not balance. That's a PVP flag.




How is the attacker the one with all the options if the targets are too heavily defended?

Im not going to attack anything if a drake is there, which means the drake controles the field, even if he doesnt know it. I can sit there AFK for as long as I like and not get a thing done while the targets get along with their lives and rake in the isk.

The only time sitting AFK in system works is when people like you panic, and thats all your own falt.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.10.01 17:33:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Please note that people being AFK in station and AFK at POSes are exactly equal to AFK cloakers.
All I can say to this is.... Wow Confused.


Consider it from the attacker's perspective for a moment:
- I'm in your system, trying to attack your players
- I am actively playing the game
- I am being griefed by people who are not playing the game
- I cannot accurately determine what they are flying - because they can switch ships at the drop of a hat (something I cannot do)

Frankly, if you want to nerf AFK cloakers, please also nerf AFK station spinners and AFK POSers.

-Liang

Ay Liz
Sacred Templars
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2010.10.01 18:11:00 - [264]
 

Edited by: Ay Liz on 01/10/2010 18:14:28
Here.. Just remoe someone afk cloaking from local after 5 minutes when he does nothing.
Then let him reappear in local when he starts moving after some delay.

Paranoia solved, cloak isn't nerfed. Cloakers can actually watch a place like a JB for traffic without being seen in local. Therefore a buff for stealthy operations.

So now, i didn't want to interrupt the trolling. Proceed.

Creepy CousinRoger
Posted - 2010.10.01 18:12:00 - [265]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Please note that people being AFK in station and AFK at POSes are exactly equal to AFK cloakers.
All I can say to this is.... Wow Confused.




I was actually going to post the same as Liang Nuren. If the 'defenders' are smart about it 'AFK' people in stations on POS can be used to effectively bait/trap the cloaker. I guees Matrix is too busy playing with his flags to think about other options.

Flossing
Flush Gordon and The Toilet Ducks of Death
Posted - 2010.10.01 18:13:00 - [266]
 

Edited by: Flossing on 01/10/2010 18:14:43
Yay yet another tired thread about another topic that has been posted dozens of times before and about something that ccp is not going to change , Yay.


YOU HEARD IT HEAR FIRST!!!!!!

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.01 18:22:00 - [267]
 

For those who really dont get it: If someone is in a station you can check the undock and have ample of warning to know if he is becoming potentially dangerous. If someone is in a POS exactly the same is true. If someone is cloaked he is completely risk free while you have no idea if he is afk or not, and he does not have to do anything to stay safe.

In the end it is just that those who think they are so much better than carebears are too risk averse and want to be completely risk free in 0.0 in space without paying attention.

JJ Starr
Minmatar
Ore Mongers
Posted - 2010.10.01 19:25:00 - [268]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
cheese plus massive amounts of whine



Dude...you are...without a doubt...the biggest gaping whining little germ to crawl from these forums and that says loads. How can I best put this?

Oh yeah...STFU and HTFU noob.

Also I lost a bomber setting my peeveepee flag Embarassed

http://omg.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=7680239

EmbarassedEmbarassedEmbarassedEmbarassedEmbarassedEmbarassed

Nerf Cynabal's tbh Evil or Very Mad

Jodi Goulsti
No Salvation
War.Pigs.
Posted - 2010.10.01 21:38:00 - [269]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
For those who really dont get it: If someone is in a station you can check the undock and have ample of warning to know if he is becoming potentially dangerous. If someone is in a POS exactly the same is true. If someone is cloaked he is completely risk free while you have no idea if he is afk or not, and he does not have to do anything to stay safe.

In the end it is just that those who think they are so much better than carebears are too risk averse and want to be completely risk free in 0.0 in space without paying attention.
To borrow your words:

If someone is in a station or a POS he is completely risk free while you have no idea if he is afk or not, and he does not have to do anything to stay safe.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.10.01 22:04:00 - [270]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 01/10/2010 22:05:58

I don't worry about cloaked ships until they uncloak next to me. When that happens, I find this fit works well (don't forget the drones, or to overheat the hardeners):

[Hulk, GTFO]
Damage Control II
'Halcyon' Core Equalizer I

Invulnerability Field II
Viscoelastic EM Ward Salubrity I
Additional Thermal Barrier Emitter I
Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Arkonor Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Arkonor Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Arkonor Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Vespa EC-600 x5


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