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blankseplocked Enemy Stealth Bombers in a mining system. A becomming curse.
 
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XSarah
Posted - 2010.09.30 23:36:00 - [181]
 

welcome to EVE, bear

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.30 23:39:00 - [182]
 

You know, I never hear threads about AFK cloakers from Wormhole inhabitants. They don't have local.

-Liang

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.09.30 23:47:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
You know, I never hear threads about AFK cloakers from Wormhole inhabitants. They don't have local.

-Liang
Because they're different. Make entrance gates to nullsec as random as wh gates and then MAYBE you can start comparing apples to oranges.


Kat Bandeis
Caldari
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2010.09.30 23:51:00 - [184]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Drama
Or maybe you could go to the system next door? Rolling Eyes

If he follows, then he's not AFK and doing exactly what's intended in this game. Set up a small camp on the other side to catch him when he does.

If he doesn't, well the answer is self explanatory, continue on with your activities.

Or, get an alt or friend to sit in the belt with you (you did say you have defenders right?)

Sounds more like you want to AFK mine in dangerous space without a care in the world(in other words, not actually play the game but still make ISK).

In short, you're a tosser.

HTFU.


This, exactly. Grow a pair, for god's sake.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.30 23:55:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Because they're different. Make entrance gates to nullsec as random as wh gates and then MAYBE you can start comparing apples to oranges.


Bull****, they are exactly the same. The person trying to grind is trying to grind, and the people AFK cloaking them are AFK cloaking them. How the person gets there is irrelevant.

-Liang

Ehgrimm
Posted - 2010.09.30 23:59:00 - [186]
 

All I see in this thread is people whining about psychological warfare, and people who aren't stupid.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.01 00:09:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Because they're different. Make entrance gates to nullsec as random as wh gates and then MAYBE you can start comparing apples to oranges.


Bull****, they are exactly the same. The person trying to grind is trying to grind, and the people AFK cloaking them are AFK cloaking them. How the person gets there is irrelevant.

-Liang
Right. k-space and w-space are the same says you Rolling Eyes.


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.10.01 00:12:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Because they're different. Make entrance gates to nullsec as random as wh gates and then MAYBE you can start comparing apples to oranges.

Bull****, they are exactly the same. The person trying to grind is trying to grind, and the people AFK cloaking them are AFK cloaking them. How the person gets there is irrelevant.
-Liang
Right. k-space and w-space are the same says you Rolling Eyes.

The ways to get into the same situation might be different, but once you ARE in the same situation, you, umm, well, are in the same situation.
What does it matter how the so-called AFK cloaker (or, basically, any ship that logged off in w-space) got there if he's already there ?

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.01 00:25:00 - [189]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 01/10/2010 00:38:54
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Because they're different. Make entrance gates to nullsec as random as wh gates and then MAYBE you can start comparing apples to oranges.

Bull****, they are exactly the same. The person trying to grind is trying to grind, and the people AFK cloaking them are AFK cloaking them. How the person gets there is irrelevant.
-Liang
Right. k-space and w-space are the same says you Rolling Eyes.

The ways to get into the same situation might be different, but once you ARE in the same situation, you, umm, well, are in the same situation.
What does it matter how the so-called AFK cloaker (or, basically, any ship that logged off in w-space) got there if he's already there ?
For one, you can't cyno in your gang.

Two, you can't wear down an opponent that might or might not be there. Scanning down a w-space gate is a crapshoot for an afk cloaker looking to "invest time" (and i use the term "invest" loosely Rolling Eyes) in going AFK in a system that may very well be empty.

Three, to find someone or anybody at all takes the cloaker more effort and work. At the very least, you're trading risk for more effort, which would explain why there aren't a whole lot of afk cloakers in w-space. You're looking for easy ganks that allow you to go afk for days on end. Having to work for your kill defeats the purpose of AFKing in the first place.

Four, even though there may be residents in w-space, a chunk of players scan, get in and get out, another huge waste of time for afk cloakers looking to wear down their prey.

List goes on and on. But whatever. It won't make a difference to you anyway. So let's just pretend like the mechanics are the same for both w- and k-space and things should work out exactly the same for both scenarios :)


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.10.01 00:56:00 - [190]
 

That's only talking about mitigating factors and possible counter-measures, which was the whole point of people screaming at the OP to HTFU.

Granted, the hotdrop thing could be considered an actual problem for 0.0 space regardless of scenario chosen. Still, at best, he'd get one round of kills before he would be dead himself, since if he lights a cyno for a hotdrop, he's DEAD immediately after if the defender was prepared. And if the hotdropper wasn't prepared enough, he might not even get the chance to hotdrop at all, but be destroyed and cyno brought down before "reinforcements" arrive. Still, that's yet another story.


The direct comparison would have been:
0.0 -> one mostly-AFK cloaker that never bothers hotdropping anything but just takes out on occasion some miners, to wage psychological warfare and disrupt mining operations
W-space -> one unscannable or AKF-cloaked ship in a system with a heavy-duty presence of a mining corp, swooping in and occasionally killing some of the miners, to wage psychological warfare and disrupt mining operations
None of the people in any of those scenarios even think about leaving the system nor calling any additional people in.

And that's the scenario comparison WE are laughing at.

Capt Chaotic
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.01 01:25:00 - [191]
 

I've never posted on here but i read all the time. But i actually have to respond to this.

All i see is wah wah wah, change the game for me! FFS

Hi Sec is wait for it..........HIGH Security. If you want to feel safe mining whist watching your afk p0rn, stay the **** there.

0.0 Space? OMG! NO Security. If you don't want to mine safely, take your punt here. It's 0 Sec for a reason.

Don't blame some guy in a bloody Stealth Bomber for being somewhere he can be wickedly effective. If you want safety, go mine in hi sec. If your rewards are better in low and null with your mining, you take the risk v reward shot like everybody else. We can all adapt or just not go there, why can't you?

Also, on the subject of LOCAL.... i say remove it. Why? Because it's fricking SPACE! When i walk into a building i don't know exactly who is there and what there status is when i walk in. Use your scanner and take a punt, that's what the damn thing is there for in the first place!

I suppose you want to know who, what and where immediately? How about you just ask CCP to give you an "I need isk" button that you can press every time you want anything? GTFO and go out there and earn it! Improvise, overcome and adapt.

This is a GAME, it's not RL. If you can adapt to things in RL, then this should be a piece of cake.










MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.01 01:30:00 - [192]
 

Originally by: Akita T
That's only talking about mitigating factors and possible counter-measures, which was the whole point of people screaming at the OP to HTFU.
wot? Shocked The differences between w and k space aren't "mitigating" anything. What are you even talking about here?

Quote:
Granted, the hotdrop thing could be considered an actual problem for 0.0 space regardless of scenario chosen. Still, at best, he'd get one round of kills before he would be dead himself, since if he lights a cyno for a hotdrop, he's DEAD immediately after if the defender was prepared. And if the hotdropper wasn't prepared enough, he might not even get the chance to hotdrop at all, but be destroyed and cyno brought down before "reinforcements" arrive. Still, that's yet another story.
Except that AFK cloakers aren't looking to suicide themselves on one kill. Their MO is to without risk choose an engagement, walk away unscathed, lulz, rinse and repeat without ANY risk to them at all. Oh, and dropping covert cynos won't get the cynoer killed either.


Quote:
The direct comparison would have been:
0.0 -> one mostly-AFK cloaker that never bothers hotdropping anything but just takes out on occasion some miners, to wage psychological warfare and disrupt mining operations
W-space -> one unscannable or AKF-cloaked ship in a system with a heavy-duty presence of a mining corp, swooping in and occasionally killing some of the miners, to wage psychological warfare and disrupt mining operations
None of the people in any of those scenarios even think about leaving the system nor calling any additional people in.

And that's the scenario comparison WE are laughing at.

Your second scenario takes more effort and luck to achieve. You can't exactly say "this week I'll afk in xx system to wear down the miners". You will first need to find the right system (ie, big enough to be worth the effort and with plenty of miners, 24/7 residents, stable entrace/exit), basically ALL THE RIGHT CONDITIONS for the lazy cloaker. THAT takes effort and in on itself would discourage most of these lazy cloakers looking for easy kills. On the other hand, your first scenario is EASY and effortless to achieve. Hell, park your cloakie alt and go play with your main while the locals give up in looking for you and give up in buddying up because you're now 3 days in with absolutely no effort and not having to be at the keyboards AT ALL.


xavier69
Gallente
Stark Enterprises LLC
Posted - 2010.10.01 01:32:00 - [193]
 

Make Cloaked Ships Not Show in Local

Problem Solved

Cov Opt Pilots like myself have been asking for this for over 5 years they only got it right in wormholes there should be no local

I really do get tired of reading these whiner threads about cloaks the problem is there implementation and local anyone cloaked shouldn't show in local

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.01 01:35:00 - [194]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 01/10/2010 01:40:17
Originally by: Capt Chaotic
I've never posted on here but i read all the time. But i actually have to respond to this.

All i see is wah wah wah, change the game for me! FFS

Hi Sec is wait for it..........HIGH Security. If you want to feel safe mining whist watching your afk p0rn, stay the **** there.

0.0 Space? OMG! NO Security. If you don't want to mine safely, take your punt here. It's 0 Sec for a reason.

Don't blame some guy in a bloody Stealth Bomber for being somewhere he can be wickedly effective. If you want safety, go mine in hi sec. If your rewards are better in low and null with your mining, you take the risk v reward shot like everybody else. We can all adapt or just not go there, why can't you?

Also, on the subject of LOCAL.... i say remove it. Why? Because it's fricking SPACE! When i walk into a building i don't know exactly who is there and what there status is when i walk in. Use your scanner and take a punt, that's what the damn thing is there for in the first place!

I suppose you want to know who, what and where immediately? How about you just ask CCP to give you an "I need isk" button that you can press every time you want anything? GTFO and go out there and earn it! Improvise, overcome and adapt.

This is a GAME, it's not RL. If you can adapt to things in RL, then this should be a piece of cake.
You yap about security, safety, hi sec, and risk. God forbid your AFK cloaker is exposed to one iota of risk Rolling Eyes.

Risk should only apply to everyone else, not the AFK cloaker, amirite?

And spare me the "once in a blue moon rats will spawn in safes and decloak you" bull****Rolling Eyes. Now if CCP actually made this happen and often...Twisted Evil.


Misanthra
Posted - 2010.10.01 01:43:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
You know, I never hear threads about AFK cloakers from Wormhole inhabitants. They don't have local.

-Liang


they come out to null sec alot actually. They pop out the wh, ninjya rat, play hide and seek with the null sec people, then disappear into the wh exit again. true they don't do this in wh space, they just get their kicks in k-space.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.10.01 03:28:00 - [196]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 01/10/2010 03:32:59
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
The differences between w and k space aren't "mitigating" anything. What are you even talking about here?
[...]
AFK cloakers aren't looking to suicide themselves on one kill. Their MO is to without risk choose an engagement, walk away unscathed, lulz, rinse and repeat without ANY risk to them at all. Oh, and dropping covert cynos won't get the cynoer killed either.
[...]
Your second scenario takes more effort and luck to achieve. You can't exactly say "this week I'll afk in xx system to wear down the miners". You will first need to find the right system (ie, big enough to be worth the effort and with plenty of miners, 24/7 residents, stable entrace/exit), basically ALL THE RIGHT CONDITIONS for the lazy cloaker. THAT takes effort and in on itself would discourage most of these lazy cloakers looking for easy kills. On the other hand, your first scenario is EASY and effortless to achieve. Hell, park your cloakie alt and go play with your main while the locals give up in looking for you and give up in buddying up because you're now 3 days in with absolutely no effort and not having to be at the keyboards AT ALL.

What I am talking about is that WHILE the "w-space scenario" does indeed require far more effort to get into than the corresponding "0.0 scenario", once you are already in that scenario, there is very little difference.
It makes no difference as far as the issue at hand is concerned how difficult it is to get into such a situation. Only what the situation itself means.
Simply put, all of that doesn't matter for the purpose of this discussion. The ONLY thing we are talking about is the effects of an alleged AFK cloaker as seen by the inhabitants of the system, and their specific and repeated complaints almost exclusively about the AFK part, NOT the cloaker part. The vast majority of those "effects" are self-inflicted, as an indirect result of their inability to cope with the "psychological warfare" such an individual wages.

Sure, a covops cyno won't reveal you, but you can't hotdrop a carrier or any other capital ship with a covops cyno either... in fact, you can't HOTDROP much of anything with a covops cyno. And as soon as he hits a normal cyno, he's toast. Or, if we are talking cynojammed system, that's not relevant, since he can't even drop a regular cyno.

Also, the "lazy cloaker" will ALSO find himself with the same problem in the no-local 0.0 scenario - he won't KNOW how many of the locals are around. He might only see a handful of miners wherever he moves, but those miners could be accompanied by dozens or hundreds of "hidden" locals just waiting to ambush the wannabe ambusher instead. Hell, he might search for miners all over the place yet fail to find any at all, and search he would have to, because he would have no local to instantly tell him just how populated the system might be and who might be there at all. How's that as far as slightly more evened out risk-effort-reward ratios go ?
And no, you won't be able to "guess where people are" by the map (jumps stats, people online stats, NPC kills stats or whatnot), because those instant gamewide intel features (or at least the short-duration ones) would also have to get removed from the map (or at least have their summing up duration significantly tweaked).

Umega
Solis Mensa
Posted - 2010.10.01 03:47:00 - [197]
 

Quote:
You yap about security, safety, hi sec, and risk. God forbid your AFK cloaker is exposed to one iota of risk .

Risk should only apply to everyone else, not the AFK cloaker, amirite?

And spare me the "once in a blue moon rats will spawn in safes and decloak you" bull****. Now if CCP actually made this happen and often....



You totally missed the point the person made. Risk vs reward.. what reward is the AFK.. AFK.. AFK.. afk cloaker getting? Nothing.. most of the time I am parked in a null system afk, I honestly don't give a **** what people are doing or saying. I just need a break for whatever rl reason without access to any other safe spot.

My only reward for using a cloaking device is safety. Turn that ***** off and my risk goes through the roof. Its not like stealth bombers are loaded with a ton of other defensive options to fall back on, or any other cov-ops capable ship.. save T3, and when you're alone, or even if you aren't.. KM happy humpers will jump at a chance to wipe a T3 from TQ. For what?

What rewards does cloaking give? Safety.. cause its a cloaking device designed to do just that! Wow.. the common sense of it all, it's.. sooooo.. unbelievable sound, it can't and shouldn't be real.

It's isn't the cloakers fault that people are masochistic by thair mere existence. Going crazy over them.. cloaking. People can ***** when a ship can fire and remained cloak at the same time.. till then.. OP, have a ONE attack ship sitting there and chances are the bomber won't do much of anything.

Now.. is it fair to the bomber that one single attack vessel positioned with miners pretty much ruins his/her chances for a kill? That ship isn't doing anything, not moving, just sitting there.. probably afk.. scarying the bomber from attacking..


Jodi Goulsti
No Salvation
War.Pigs.
Posted - 2010.10.01 04:43:00 - [198]
 

CCP, FIX AFK CLOAKERS SO I CAN AFK MINE!!!

NewGit
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.01 05:34:00 - [199]
 

This game is supposed to be about balance. Just about everything in the game has a counter or some aspect that allows you to defend or attack around it.
For example, you have ECM jammers and you have ECCM counter measures. Various damage types, various resist types. Fast, lightly armoured ships - slow, heavily armoured ships, and so on.

Some mods have timers, some need fuel, some have timers and need fuel.

However, cloaks have NO counter to them. There is NO possibility to scan down a cloaked ship. They don't have a timer, they don't use fuel. You can run them cap stable 23/7 and not have a worry in the world that anyone will find you (unless you do something incredibly stupid like sit 2,600 meters from a gate directly in the warp path to another object, or right at the point where belt rats usually warp in).

So, if the cloaky wants to sit say, 3,000 meters off a gate (in a safe direction), go afk and leave his screen-monitoring bot on to alert him if any potential targets show up, this is perfectly acceptable ? (And yes, I know for a fact that is what a lot of them do.)

There should be a way to scan down cloakers. In fact, it shouldn't be that hard at all. Consider that current scanners detect what ? Ships, starbase structures, anomalies, containers, asteroids, etc.
How are they doing these scans ? By detecting what exactly ?
Electronic signatures ? Not likely.
Light emissions ? Not likely.
Metallic content ? (Possibly, except that wouldn't work for WHs and such)

So what does a cloak actually do ? It deflects light. (Fitting two or more cloaking devices to a ship negates their use, as unsynchronized light deflection causes interference.)

It doesn't mask the electronic signature of the ship (would probably increase it in fact).
It doesn't make the ship "etheral" and hide the minerals that make up the ship, it's mods and whatever else it is carrying.

So why can't they be scanned down ?

What CCP should do is either come up with a specialized scanning mod that similar skill levels to use as cloaking devices.
Or, make a T2 version of the only frigate class in the game that doesn't have a T2 variant (the mining frigates), adapt their specialized mining bonus to a specialized scanning bonus (do the usual trick, give them a 99% reduced cpu need for the specialized scanning module, so that it would be impossible to fit it to any other ship. Add a new skill or two that would give bonuses to the range/strength of the scanners, etc).

This would at least give players the chance to try and hunt down cloakers, and force more of the "afk" cloakers to either actively play or wake up in their clones more often. It would help balance out one aspect of the game that currently doesn't have a counter to it.

Other suggestions I've heard in the past included putting a timer on the cloaking devices similar to cyno timers. Or have a fuel requirement. Cloaky runs out of (garbage/soil/homeless/or what ever fuel), cloak deactivates and ship is now vulnerable.

As for submarine warfare, one must remember that yes, they were for a time effective at area denial, and forced changes in convoy tactics. That is until methods (and technology) evolved and allowed the hunted to become the hunters. Suddenly submarines spent more time running for their lives than trying to stop convoys.

It is time for the cloakies to become the hunted.

Lillith Starfire
Posted - 2010.10.01 05:41:00 - [200]
 

I bet the same people who claim cloaking is fine as it is are the same ones who harp on about how nothing is safe in Eve. So which is it? You can't have it both ways? Or in the case of cloaking yes actually you can. I like that idea of an anti cloaker ship. Curious to see why people would object to such a ship? Could it be that it would stop their easy safe playing in this supposedly dangerous universe where nothing is supposed to be truly safe?

Nedefeg
Posted - 2010.10.01 05:56:00 - [201]
 

oh my ****in god


all you people defending permacloaking

cant you see the issue is really the permacloakers are the real carebears in this entire ecuation? Assuming no risk or a ver very low laughable risk while asking others to do laughable things to "counter" them?

name me one sane person who would actively guard a few hulks in 0.0 instead of doing his thing (making isk , pewing, etc)

imho its not about afk or non afk , that argument is irrelevant...it`s about cloaking as it is now . Covops cloake should be probable with maxed skills//bonuses in say 10 minutes....other ships should not be able to fit cloaks entirely


On a broader picture , imho , the main issue with EvE pvp is that it`s sooo ****in easy to avoid fights and sooo ****in complicated to force a fight upoin anyone except a ratter or a miner

Thats why nano was justly nerfed , thats why dramiels/machs need to be nerfed , thats why cloaks need a serious nerfhammer...not to make 0.0 safer but to make it easyer to kill stuff in 0.0

as things are now..0.0 is either macro CLOAKY ravens , uber-bloby-blobs or nanoed to hell and back roaming crews that are really only catchable by similar nanoed-to-hell-and back roaming crews


You all know that if you go out on a roam and the enemy doesnt WANT a fight...you wont get a fight , excepting a few random kills on nubs not watchin intel and people afk rating.Everyone will be cloaked up , docked up or buzzing @ 400km with omfg km/s in dramiels....

Nedefeg
Posted - 2010.10.01 06:03:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
You know, I never hear threads about AFK cloakers from Wormhole inhabitants. They don't have local.

-Liang


Everyone mentions wh`s and uses that as an argument for removin local in 0.0

Now liang , answer me , how many people will bother PvE`ing 0.0 with no local assuming rewards remain the same? Imho , only masochistic ones will stay. Any nerf to 0.0 PvE as it is (sacrificing 2 accounts to pve with 1 , guard with other , nerfing fits to be PvP ready , etc , will drop your income lvls below empire . AT that point ...people will just farm empire with alts

ANd you guys are still dodging this question: Is it reasonable for someone in 0.0 to take offensive action against someone else (argue all you want that afk cloakers arent there to take offensive action , you and me both know that argument is bull****) without ANY risk whatsoever to himself?

as i`m typing this i`m at work...eve on a flash drive...just checking 3 accnts every hours or so to refresh probes (thanks god company has nice PC`s eh?

i`m tellin you noone `s runin sanctums in the systems i`m in . I know cause i`m cloaked @ 400km from them...and will be jabered if someone actually logs in to run them...and will likely find 5 min to kill them

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.01 06:14:00 - [203]
 

Well mining is still doable with one red SB in local if you got a zealot to guard your mining op, which isnt too unreasonable. With two red SBs in local you cant mine anymore and the mining index will just drop to zero: since two bombs will kill any mining ship afaik, and a zealot isnt going to do anything about that. And dont come with crap like staying alligned, it is completely unreasonable to expect a miner to be alligned all the time while the afk cloaker is completely risk free hanging in space.

And that is what it all comes down to, afk cloakers are scared of any risk in eve.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.01 06:55:00 - [204]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 01/10/2010 11:44:25

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Venkul Mul
They have been nerfed, don't you remember?


i got 150 MILLION units of tritanium from 2 hauler spawns.
Nerfed?



Quote:
You appear to be forgetting the existence of loot drops, hauler spawns and drone alloys (throughout the drone regions and in missions in highsec) [as larger sources of minerals than mining].


The bolded sources of minerals have been nerfed. Evidently CCP "forgot" to nerf haulers spawns as a non-mining source of minerals. Stupid to leave that kind of gift around but they always fear to nerf 0.0 too much, even when it would be only logical (the intention of the change was to make mining the main source of minerals).

Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro

I know the composition of some of the drone alloys has changed, and I think meta 0 loot might have been removed from some locations, but that still leaves an awful lot of stuff that just gets melted down, not to mention the hauler spawns. Would you care to elaborate if I've missed anything significant?


The composition of the drone alloys has been moved toward more low ends and less high ends.

What should have influenced mineral generation more was the removal of most of the "big" modules generating a lot of minerals when refined from the BS drops.

As the change came at the same time of the insurance change it is very hard to judge what was the real effect.

Note that CCP did say that they would keep an eye on mineral production and further tweak the drops if needed.

A interesting particular is that the table of mineral production refer to mining/(refined) loot/drone alloys but don't consider the effect of hauler spawns.

Ad during my permanence in 0.0 I did more exploration sites and mining that ratting (I found ratting extremely boring) I don't have a clear idea about the frequency of hauler spawns.





Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.10.01 06:57:00 - [205]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217
Cloak = pvp flag. Twisted Evil

/sits back and grabs popcorn
This. So-called "PVPers" defend this ship because:

a) It allows them to PVP to virtually ZERO risk to themselves.



True, although not in the way that you mean. I (and others) tried to start a discussion on how they could deal with the cloakers themselves, but that was completely ignored. That tells you what the real problem is here; it's relatively simple to counter, but the OP et al don't want to counter it, they just want it to stop altogether and are trying to complain it away.

Therefore there is little risk to the cloaker that they'll actually try and do anything about him, despite the fact that it's quite possible to do so (counter-bomber, cloaked dictor, sniper BC, etc etc).

If they dont even try, he experiences "zero risk"...

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.10.01 06:59:00 - [206]
 

Originally by: NewGit
This game is supposed to be about balance. Just about everything in the game has a counter or some aspect that allows you to defend or attack around it.
For example, you have ECM jammers and you have ECCM counter measures. Various damage types, various resist types. Fast, lightly armoured ships - slow, heavily armoured ships, and so on.
Some mods have timers, some need fuel, some have timers and need fuel.
However, cloaks have NO counter to them.

Here's a novel idea : maybe the balance is in the fact that IT CAN DEAL NO DAMAGE UNLESS HE DROPS CLOAK FIRST.
And being cloaked and AFK is (save for the PURELY PSYCHOLOGICAL ramifications) practically identical to being logged off.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.10.01 07:01:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: Lillith Starfire
I bet the same people who claim cloaking is fine as it is are the same ones who harp on about how nothing is safe in Eve. So which is it? You can't have it both ways? Or in the case of cloaking yes actually you can. I like that idea of an anti cloaker ship. Curious to see why people would object to such a ship? Could it be that it would stop their easy safe playing in this supposedly dangerous universe where nothing is supposed to be truly safe?



Have you ever actually flown a bomber? Put a fitting in to EFT and see how many EHP they have, then tell me that they're "safe" to fly.

Wait, you are aware that they have to uncloak to actually do anything, right? You do know they cant shoot while cloaked? And that if they're targeted by anything, they can't re-cloak?

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2010.10.01 07:38:00 - [208]
 

WTF is this ****. 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous, and yet you think you should be able to happily carebear away without taking any defensive measures at all?

Remove local, that solves the local problem. To mitigate the hotdrop problem, give cyno jumps/jump bridges a 30-60 second "in transit" feature - your bait frig lights the cyno, you can jump or bridge immediately but you don't appear in your destination system until 30-60 seconds have passed. If the target cyno gets popped during this time, you get scattered about the destination system in random safespots.

Talaan Stardrifter
Universal Exports
Posted - 2010.10.01 07:42:00 - [209]
 

This topic is being trolled, but for my final words:

Originally by: NewGit
This game is supposed to be about balance. Just about everything in the game has a counter or some aspect that allows you to defend or attack around it.
For example, you have ECM jammers and you have ECCM counter measures. Various damage types, various resist types. Fast, lightly armoured ships - slow, heavily armoured ships, and so on.


ECCM is the counter to ECM
ECCM can be disabled by Cap Warfare (Neuts)

Cloak is a counter to Probes
Cloak can be disabled by proximity (2000m)

Active cloak removes all capability of user to interact with the world, including other ships.
(exceptions are pre-fired probes, and d-scan)
Active cloak removes all capability for world to interact with the user, except proximity.

I may have considered removing d-scan from a cloaked ship, if this argument had gone better.
As it stands, cloaks are balanced. The problem is in the eye (Local) of the beholder.

flummox
Posted - 2010.10.01 08:07:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: NewGit

This game is supposed to be about balance.

However, cloaks have NO counter to them.



wrong. sit down.

the cloak itself is the counter to itself. it renders your ship [almost] perfectly safe, and [almost] perfectly useless.

what is this "scan down a cloaker" thing you keep talking about? this isn't Star Trek: Nemesis and you can't use Counselor Troi to help you track a ship.

and furthermore, if you are upset about the AFK Cloakers interrupting your activities, why the hell would you want to track them down? don't you want to be mining or ratting or anything-elsing instead? IF... IF, you could track a cloak, it better be DARN TOOTIN' HARD to do so. you gonna spend a few hours tracking an AFK Cloaker down? oh i see what you want. you want a module that will give you an instant win. based on your false perception of their module giving them an instant win.

the "win" doesn't come from the module. it comes from you being paranoid. simple and honest truth.

and the rest of you guys need to stop the Remove Local debate. it's been going on for years. and it's not even a solution for anything but your paranoia. the local channel is generated by the stargate that you use to jump in (kinda assuming this, but). if you want no local channel, then go to W-Space. as long as you are in a system that can have sovereignty, you'll have local.

leave your e-mail here and i'll send you a WoW trial...


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