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blankseplocked Enemy Stealth Bombers in a mining system. A becomming curse.
 
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Ray Gunne
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:24:00 - [121]
 

Edited by: Ray Gunne on 30/09/2010 15:25:25
Originally by: Razor Vision

You guys realize that the industrial sector is the backbone of the game? Without miners there would be no materials. Without materials there would be no way to build ships or modules.



You realise that without a market there would be no industry. Without losses there would be no demand, without demand there would be no way to sell ships or modules.

Quote:

It's perfectly reasonable that the OP posted a topic with his concerns that SB's are slightly OP when it comes to sabotaging mining OPs in 0.0. I live in 0.0 and I know what he's talking about. Any tom, ****, or sally with relatively no skills at all, could very easily stealth into any 0.0 system wish, find a safespot, then switch back to their "main" client. All the while, nobody is controlling the SB pilot, yet its effect is massive on the system it's in. Therefore, a mechanic in the game basically allows NOBODY to change an entire night of gaming for a lot of people. Zero skill, zero mouse or keyboard involvement, and so forth. So yeah, I don't think a timer is such a terrible idea. Infact, it's a great idea. Sure, I agree SB's are great tools for destroying mining ships and transport ships, etc <-- And it should STAY that way. But should they be effective AFK ships? No. No ship should have a special AFK power. Why? Because there's no player involvement. And CCP has made it clear that this game is entirely about player involvement. Players are the game. Without the players, it's simply empty space with rats patrolling astroids.


So you never thought about a miner using a second account (like the SB pilot) sitting cloaked and ready to snipe the SB if it comes into attack?

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:24:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: kasiloth
What i want to say here is that the tactic of an enemy to send a stealth bomber in a system staying there afk for hrs preventing local miners or raters to work is becoming a curse with a high risk to ruin the entire game.


You are clear evidence that this tactic is infact improving the game, by clearing out sackless derps such as yourself.

Grow a pair and mine anyways. Get some combat support to protect you. You want to sit in 0.0 space all day and mine without worrying about others, you are playing the WRONG GAME.

Summer Finn
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:26:00 - [123]
 

Do the same with the foes until you get an cease "afk" fire.


Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:29:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: Aessoroz on 30/09/2010 15:30:02
Edited by: Aessoroz on 30/09/2010 15:29:51
I bet most of you don't even live in nullsec. My main does with a sizable alliance and bombers and other silly fleets always come roaming through. We also do have a mining system but bombers are never a issue? Why? Because instacanes alpha the heck out of bombers and only one is needed to do so. Heck I swear everytime theres a bomber, 70+ people just pile in the system after it because well, we are killmail hoes.

Bernard Schuyler
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:31:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
It seems like a reasonable expectation that people in a pvp game are actually at their computer.


Given that statement, then the answer is NOT any nerf to cloaks, but rather force log-offs for anyone idle for X minutes.

If you want to nerf AFK, nerf AFK.

Also, I love how people complain about this all the time yet I am sure love the fact that they can use Cloaks to avoid harm as well. Be careful what you wish for. Probes that see through cloaks will hurt a lot more of these complainers than it will affect AFL Cloakers Rolling Eyes

Mrs Destruction
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:32:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Sjugar
The problem I have with AFK-cloakers is that they're playing the game while not actively sitting behind their computer.
In what way is this different then macro-mining? They influence the game-play of others while not playing.

In my opinion, just forcefully logout accounts that are inactive for 30-60 minutes.


True, but right now it's the best way to stop macro-miners (i.e. 80% of Russian accounts) without CCP having to outright ban them and wipe out alot of their revenue. It's nice to get 3-4 clients running with AFK cloakers in a macro constellation and then goto bed. Fighting AFK with AFK. I kinda like it.

Nuela
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:32:00 - [127]
 

Solution to problem.

Get rid of local.

A stealth bomber AFK would then do nothing to stop operations.

Sjugar
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:37:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Nuela
Solution to problem.

Get rid of local.

A stealth bomber AFK would then do nothing to stop operations.
So, is the unprobable T3 in a safespot the wormhole equivalent to the AFK cloaker?

Efernaal
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:39:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: kasiloth


I dont like to complain without a proposal, i would suggest CCp to deactivate cloaking device after a period of inactivity of lets say 30-60 min. So defenders could scan and chase the intruder.



As someone pointed out that sub's in modern warfare are used for denial of resources. What they forgot is that that even a these ships still need to come up for air and supply's time to time. Even a modern sub with a nuke reactor still needs to come up to get food supply's.

Razor Vision
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:46:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Ray Gunne
Edited by: Ray Gunne on 30/09/2010 15:25:25
Originally by: Razor Vision

You guys realize that the industrial sector is the backbone of the game? Without miners there would be no materials. Without materials there would be no way to build ships or modules.



You realise that without a market there would be no industry. Without losses there would be no demand, without demand there would be no way to sell ships or modules.

So you never thought about a miner using a second account (like the SB pilot) sitting cloaked and ready to snipe the SB if it comes into attack?


The ones running the markets are usually involved in some way with industrialists.

Your counter method involving the miner to purchase a second account to counter the guy who already has two accounts is exactly what CCP would want, more money. so you're suggestion is spend RL money to counter an ingame mechanic? Not very strategic. "solve all your problems by spending money on it." brilliant, brilliant. really.

Bernard Schuyler
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:48:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Efernaal
Originally by: kasiloth


I dont like to complain without a proposal, i would suggest CCp to deactivate cloaking device after a period of inactivity of lets say 30-60 min. So defenders could scan and chase the intruder.



As someone pointed out that sub's in modern warfare are used for denial of resources. What they forgot is that that even a these ships still need to come up for air and supply's time to time. Even a modern sub with a nuke reactor still needs to come up to get food supply's.


And again, these threads are all based on fear. They see someone in Local, and are assuming they are in a Stealth Bomber, Recon or some other cloaked vessel that can hotdrop hell upon them. Whether they are or aren't is largely irrelevent. These are people who want to play without adequate security measures and complain bitterly when they are not allowed to do so.


Corozan Aspinall
Perkone
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:49:00 - [132]
 

If CCP ever decide to have EvE grow some gonads and remove local; will you still moan like little baby bears about inconsequential stuff like the existence of 'other' players? Rolling Eyes

Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:50:00 - [133]
 

Another AFK cloaking thread... geez you'd think you guys have never read the forums before. Rolling Eyes


What CCP has stated is that you should 'deal with the cloakers using in-game means.' While that may sound like a load of tripe it really isn't. Here's the 'in-game means' to deal with that problem:

1. Move to another system. To continue their harrassment the cloaky must change systems as well, and you get a chance to kill him then.

2. War Dec/Kill the corp he belongs to. If you inflict enough damage they will 'choose' to go somewhere else. Mercs can be good for this.

3. War Dec/Kill the Alliance he belongs to. Given enough grief, the Alliance leads may tell him to stop or even kick him. Be sure to let the alliance leads know WHY you war dec'd. Beware this could backfire if you're all a bunch of idiots and just provide targets.

4. Bribe him to stop. Although this may offend your sense of 'righteousness', HTFU and accept that you've been beaten. Most peeps will go away if given enough isk, and if not then they're probably committed to a cause like alliance warfare. In which case see 2 or 3 above.


What not to do: Make another stupid thread asking CCP to change the game so you can mine in peace.

Chirzo Mundael
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:51:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Area and supply denial is the one of the original purposes of submarine warfare.

You can find a submarine, but not a AFK cloaked SB.

I have been in tese situations myself, annoying, but i adapted and i don't complain about it.

LoRDa RaMOs
Art of War Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:52:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Selling Slave
Marshall West has made several key points, an logical points.

The ability to cloak for hours on end is a wonderful thing. I am able to swoop into your system an lock you down thru fear an terror. I don't have any disabilities, my cloak is unbreakable as long as I don't get too close to anything. There are no risks for me whatsoever as a cloaky pilot, CCP has favored me with the ability to attack you on my terms, an there is NOTHING you can do about it. When I am ready to lay you to waste, I simply fly up an lite a cyno, an I open the doorway for hell to flood into your system. You say your system is cyno jammed? Too bad, I have a covert cyno, NOTHING stops that. Keep crying to have cloaks changed, it is falling on deaf ears. CCP have favored the cloaky pilot, I will use this game mechanic to its fullest.

I am going to come to your best mining system, an sit in it cloaked for days, until I have you second guessing yourself. When that happens, your going to think its safe, an your going to give up on being cautious, an thats when I have you, thats when you lose. Say all you want, there is no defense against me, thinking there is, thats just wishful thinking.

I too have multipule accounts, so, while I have your system locked down with one, I will be enjoying the game with another. Your misery an tears fuel my sadisticness, so, keep crying on the forums about changing cloaks, its never going to happen.

All you carebears are on this server for the pvpers amusement, get a clue. We don't need carebears, CCP could seed the market with the goods needed to keep the game running without you. Your carebear existance is tolerated because you pay.

::insert maniacil laugh here::


Where do I had the sarcasm an humor smilelys?

Its time to make a change, seriously.


This is just epic, love it.! +1 Laughing

Mrs Destruction
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:52:00 - [136]
 

removing local would unbalance the game terribly unless you extended the D scan to encompass more of the system Wink

Razor Vision
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:54:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Nuela
Solution to problem.

Get rid of local.

A stealth bomber AFK would then do nothing to stop operations.


That'd be an absolutely terrible idea. It'd rip down the industrial/mining sector almost completely. All of 0.0 would be in a constant state of war with all alliances constantly at 50% or more pvp deployment. Because at any moment surprise ********* could be happening. The game would lose a massive amount of players and very quickly PVP'rs would have no more ships or modules to purchase because all of the thousands of casual miners gave up bothering to do such a risky venture. Sure, the no local thing works in WH space, but the ppl who live that way arent high in number. there are many miners in 0.0 who take a more casual approach to it. You cant expect high level security on every mining op in the game. It just wont happen. theres manpower for it, but not everyone wants to do such a thing. And no matter how great your offensive force is, with there being no local, any amount of ppl could slip past your attacks and counter by destroying everyone in your system. so whether defensive or offensive, having no local would be such a pain for industrialsts that it would annihilate the profession entirely save for empire miners and WH miners. then the ships/modules that require Abc's will be extremely expensive because there arent nearly as many ppl mining in WH and there never will be. WHspace will always be a smaller, more nomadic area and is not meant to be the industrial powerhouse that kspace can have.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:54:00 - [138]
 

It would be fun to have some sort of active "sonar" module you could fit to destroyers that would allow you to go around hunting "submarines" with. It would introduce a sort of cat and mouse minigame for solo stealthers and hunters. You could use bomb launchers and/or smartbombs to flush out the "ping" you get on your sonar module, kinda like depth charges.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:56:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Vaneshi SnowCrash
Originally by: Cailais
How about mining with escorts?

C.




Wait you mean send a logi or two off with them along with a DPS wagon to deal with rats/interlopers? Come on man that's far to sensible!


Dammit Vaneshi you're right. What on earth was I thinking?

I also now demand CCP change all game mechanics to favour the lazy and greedy.

C.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:57:00 - [140]
 

Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 30/09/2010 15:58:10
Originally by: Mrs Destruction
removing local would unbalance the game terribly unless you extended the D scan to encompass more of the system Wink


If theres one good thing that came from wormhole space, its the proof that removing local would NOT unbalance the game. Infact, wormhole space is superior 0.0

IMO Change the directional to automatic so we dont have to keep clicking it.
Shorten its range, to compensate for its automagicness
REMOVE LOCAL.

it would change gameplay a bit, but imo it would be more enjoyable

AFK Cloaker
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:57:00 - [141]
 


Razor Vision
Posted - 2010.09.30 16:00:00 - [142]
 

Edited by: Razor Vision on 30/09/2010 16:04:43
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 30/09/2010 15:58:10
Originally by: Mrs Destruction
removing local would unbalance the game terribly unless you extended the D scan to encompass more of the system Wink


If theres one good thing that came from wormhole space, its the proof that removing local would NOT unbalance the game. Infact, wormhole space is superior 0.0

IMO Change the directional to automatic so we dont have to keep clicking it.
Shorten its range, to compensate for its automagicness
REMOVE LOCAL.

it would change gameplay a bit, but imo it would be more enjoyable


I really dont think the hardcore understand how removing local in kspace would rip the game apart. It works for WH space because the select few who choose to live that way do so. But not everyone wants to be living that way and there never will be a lot of ppl wanting that. Therefore you'd have a sharp decrease in miners the moment local is removed and as a result a sharp increase in prices for every thing in the game save for items sold by NPC's. (skillbooks and station vaults, lol).

Most of the time its people with relatively little to no understanding of the massive amount of industry and production business that goes on out in kspace. You destroy this, you destroy the game. The economy turns to **** and a big portion of the game is axed.

Lots of ppl who strictly pvp, buy plex, or pve to gain money, have no idea how removing local would greatly imbalance the game in so many terrible ways. of which the effects would hurt everyone. even the guy who strictly pvp's. (but maybe not the guy with billions in plex bought isk).

Corozan Aspinall
Perkone
Posted - 2010.09.30 16:01:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: AFK Cloaker



lol Shocked

/thread

Amanda Killjoy
Posted - 2010.09.30 16:13:00 - [144]
 

Edited by: Amanda Killjoy on 30/09/2010 16:14:57
Edited by: Amanda Killjoy on 30/09/2010 16:13:50
Where do you and your buddies mine and what's the name of this scary stealth bomber afk weiner? If you're in nullsec, you face all those dangers compared to empire's "hulkageddon" marathon.
I think you need to join a real big alliance that owns a ungodly portion of space where you have nothing but "friendly blues" surrounding you and your mining fleet.
If you can't mine in peace, go after this little sleazebag and pod his sorry self. There's no time to be scared in nullsec and if you're brave enough to mine it, get some testosterone and face this clown.
Besides, a lot of peeps want your stuff, so quit your whining and get some. Otherwise, gimme your stuff and the system this weasel is at with you so I can gank this ****er myself since you and your buddies are so scared of him. Razz

BrundleMeth
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
Posted - 2010.09.30 16:13:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Lord XSiV
And no, the subscriber base won't ever decline because of this.
Not true. The guy who introduced my to EVE quit over this very subject. And he was a full time 0.0 inhabitant. I doubt he is the only one to quit over this. Now me I don't give rats ass, I'm just saying...

Vossejongk
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.09.30 16:16:00 - [146]
 

Put out bait (thats worth killing, and seems to be easily killed but is actually not)
wait an our or so
If nothing happens, you can continue mining!

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2010.09.30 16:20:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Razor Vision
I really dont think the hardcore understand how removing local in kspace would rip the game apart. It works for WH space because the select few who choose to live that way do so. But not everyone wants to be living that way and there never will be a lot of ppl wanting that. Therefore you'd have a sharp decrease in miners the moment local is removed and as a result a sharp increase in prices for every thing in the game save for items sold by NPC's. (skillbooks and station vaults, lol).


it would -not- rip the game apart. You're a sensationalist.

You bring up the point "not everyone wants to be living that way" well, tell that to the kiddies who cry for cloak nerfs every day.

Every time i hear about the cloak whiners, im always reminded of this guy...
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Aaron Mirrorsaver
The Scope
Posted - 2010.09.30 16:31:00 - [148]
 

welcome to 2006/2007 but nice troll.

deo tranquilo
Koshaku
Posted - 2010.09.30 16:33:00 - [149]
 

kasiloth. just have a mate sit in a frig or ceptor to guard you. bombers aren't hard to kill once you get a point on them, and they can barely kill a t1 frig at decent speed unless they sit still waiting for a bomb or torpedo to land on them.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.09.30 16:37:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Razor Vision
Without miners there would be no materials. Without materials there would be no way to build ships or modules.


You appear to be forgetting the existence of loot drops, hauler spawns and drone alloys (throughout the drone regions and in missions in highsec).

I would wager that these sources combined account for a greater share of mineral production than mining, and far more people contribute towards them (especially in the drone regions, where people effectively mine with their guns).



They have been nerfed, don't you remember?


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