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blankseplocked Suggestion: Speed up learning for newbies
 
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Melkorus
Gallente
Posted - 2010.09.29 00:07:00 - [1]
 

Just a thought. 10x learning speed for the first 30 days on new ACCOUNTS (not new characters). Honestly I don't see how this would hurt anybody, people with years under their belts will still be far more developed. Furthermore, put the same restrictions on skills that are present for trial accounts (some skills can't be trained on trial accounts). However, add an option to opt-out of this 'speed mode' should players chose to at any point during their first 30 days.

Mind you, I'm well past the qualifications for this, but it would certanly help to bring few friends over. Number one complaint is their fear of playing 'catch-up' for years. While we might know better, the outsiders and those on the border line do not. This would be a nice campaign to promote.

Thoughts?

Estel Arador
Posted - 2010.09.29 00:16:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Melkorus
Thoughts?

Learning is already sped up for newbies?

Max Cetera
Capital Researchs Inc.
Posted - 2010.09.29 01:00:00 - [3]
 

~750k free SP (since you train at double speed from your 50k-ish starting SPs until you queue a skill that ends after the 1.6m SP limit) barely helps.

5-10m SP chars are advertised as "starters" on char bazaar. So faster training for new accounts would certainly help, but certainly not x10 for 30 days (that would end up in 15m SP on "trial-only" skills after 30 days, and it's totally overkill). Just up the bonus limit to 3-4m SP on the first char of an account and it sounds a lot better already.

NewGit
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.29 09:31:00 - [4]
 

Increasing the training speed would (primarily) help one group of people out, and that is the suicide gankers that need to create and train up new alts frequently. Oh, and the character sellers that need to train up new toons and put them on the market as fast as they can to maximize their profits.

New players will NEVER catch up to older players, and why should they ? Older players have put the time and effort into learning not just the skills, but the different ways the game can be, and is played. Why should a week or month old player be able compete on the same level as a 4-5 year old player ? Old players aren't going to stop training so noobs can catch up to them.

If CCP were to increase the learning speed, or raise the current double speed limit from 1.6 to say 3.2 million SPs, a week later someone would start a thread complaining that new characters can't catch up to old ones and therefore the learning speed/SP limit should be raised (again).

CCP did put in the increased learning speed/1.6 mil, and just recently reduced the prerequisites on certain things (like cloaking devices) to make it quicker and easier for new players, but it's never enough, is it ? And for people who don't want to play "because they'll never catch up to older players" ? I guess they'll never play a lot of games then, because there pretty much will always be "older" and "more experienced" players they'd have to compete with (and against).

Honestly, I can't see how changing learning speed/SP limits would be a major benefit, except for the folks noted in para 1.

Jenny Hawk
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.09.29 10:20:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Jenny Hawk on 30/09/2010 14:55:21
Originally by: NewGit
Increasing the training speed would (primarily) help one group of people out, and that is the suicide gankers that need to create and train up new alts frequently.

Well I think the main problem - as you can also read in the thread Why aren't there more people subscribing to EvE? - is that learning skills are pretty mandatory to train if you want to progress beyond 900 SP/hour and that it's best to train them as soon as possible to profit most from them.
Letīs face it: to have to go through that phase is very discouraging for people.

Alternatively, you could also reward new players an extra 1 million SP after finishing the 1.6 mil SP period or after a month, that would make it far less useful for suicide gankers.

Quote:
New players will NEVER catch up to older players, and why should they ?

Indeed, I see no reason why that would be neccessary. But it would be nice if you could fly a fully T2 fitted BC or BS and have your learning skills done with within a few months time. It just takes very very long at the moment.

Brainzor
Posted - 2010.09.29 10:30:00 - [6]
 

i`m a new player , i like the game as it is imo , what`s too easy gets me bored fast ^^

of course it would be nice to train faster for like 3m SP since i could train some socials skills too or other stuff to help me with missions , but it`s not really necessary .

Tripoli
XenTech
Posted - 2010.09.29 16:17:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Brainzor
i`m a new player , i like the game as it is imo , what`s too easy gets me bored fast ^^
QFT. This is why EVE is so successful, and why they don't need to change anything.

Loreth Algamore
Posted - 2010.09.29 19:10:00 - [8]
 

I'd be all for extending the x2 limit to 3-5m or so. Even with double speed, it's frustrating to create an account, start a character, and then basically sit there going, "well, what do I play for a month while I wait on learning skills?"

This is with an INT/MEM remapped character going for Learning V, Logic V, and Eidetic Memory V prior to training up Engineering / Electronics / support skills that only rely on those two attributes. Even with +3s and an optimized approach, it's still a long wait.

Increasing the x2 limit, or removing all of the attribute learning skills and giving them as permanent points (while raising the minimum remap value accordingly, and keeping Learning I to V as a trainable skill since it's % based) seem like the two things that would have the biggest impact on making the game easier to get into.

Jennifer Starling
Posted - 2010.09.29 20:07:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 29/09/2010 20:12:57
Originally by: Tripoli
Originally by: Brainzor
i`m a new player , i like the game as it is imo , what`s too easy gets me bored fast ^^
QFT. This is why EVE is so successful, and why they don't need to change anything.

Yes, great that millions of people (not counting alts) are very hyped about EVE and even more are queueing to subscribe. As you can read in CCP's reports, 7 months is the average subscription time of players, wow isn't that impressive!
As said before, as you can read more about what the current players think about it in Why aren't there more people subscribing to EvE?.

I don't see any neccessary relation between the complexity and depth of the game (which is excellent) and slow skilltraining and learning skills (which drives new potential players away and bores them to no end) tbh.
If skilltraining was a lot faster and there weren't learning skills EVE will still be EVE, it just would be a lot more exciting to start playing it.

MrDoco
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.09.29 20:10:00 - [10]
 

I'm a newbie that just started a few weeks ago. I have had help and have progressed pretty well with the help of a veteran of the game. Unfortunately, not everyone is so lucky to find someone so helpful. The learning curve is high and then look at all the stuff people do to discourage new players. (cargo containers offering "free" stuff, ganking, etc.) Yes its part of the game but try to put yourself in their shoes.

As a personal example. I've played a lot of MMO starting with AC, Everquest, etc... I've been able to have most of them play with me if its a good game. Eve has been the only one that I'm the only one playing. My brother and 4 of our friends (who love homeworld/scifi) quit because they kept getting killed or they didn't know what to do. Yes, there are plenty of information everyone here can point to but with the reputation of EO, and how everyone is out to get you, a noob such as myself would not know what is good or bad advice. So you sit there expecting to be robbed all the time before you got used to it. (That's what happened to my bro last year and hasn't looked back.)

Getting more SP won't make the game easier but allows people to get into ships they feel is safer, faster. I mean with the bonus, it still took me a few weeks. That is with help, and only required basic skills none of the extras that isn't as useful for a beginner. Think of it this way, can you get your significant other or friend and start them on Eve without your help and get them to like it? Do you think they'll gravitate towards it like WoW or Lotro?

Just my 2cents.

Sieges
Posted - 2010.09.29 21:10:00 - [11]
 

The learning system is excellent as is. The Learning Skills are optional. New players can still have fun right away, no new player is going to catch up to Tripoli Very Happy I have my learning skills to 5/4 and got them there while I was training for fun things to do along the way. Removing them will take away some of the strategy, sacrifices and choices we have to make along the way in our careers. I think it will dumb-down the game.

Jennifer Starling
Posted - 2010.09.29 22:28:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 29/09/2010 22:31:55
Originally by: Sieges
The learning system is excellent as is. The Learning Skills are optional. New players can still have fun right away, no new player is going to catch up to Tripoli Very Happy I have my learning skills to 5/4 and got them there while I was training for fun things to do along the way. Removing them will take away some of the strategy, sacrifices and choices we have to make along the way in our careers. I think it will dumb-down the game.

As new character you start off at 800 SP/hour - the max speed with max learning skills is 2770 Sp/hour. At the end of a year you'll have 7-8 million Sp, with maxed out learning skills you'll have 24+ million. So not training them isn't really an "option" unless you don't mind still flying a t1 cruiser after a year.

The choice is between 1) get some fun now but training very below par and walking into a wall of sluggishness once your 1.6m double speed time is over or 2) cripple yourself for 2+ months but train at max speed so you'll have up to 17 million more SP at the end of the year an being able to fly far more ships and fit T2 stuff.

Really an excellent deep and meaningful strategic mechanic indeed! No wonder so many people stay after the tutorial once they find out about this! What would be EVE without it? Very dumbed down!

Melkorus
Gallente
Posted - 2010.09.30 00:48:00 - [13]
 

It's not about 'catching up' to vets. At least in EVE that's simply not possible, if you are looking at it from SP amount point of view. It's about getting newbies into better ships sooner rather than later, so they can do more pew pew and have more fun.

You know it doesn't really matter if a 7-year vet has an ability to pilot a mothership, if I catch him in a cruiser/battlecruiser, I have a very high chance of winning that battle. That's what's its all about. Getting those newbies into a mid-range ships faster, so that they can feel viable and stick around. From the pvp that I've seen so far, most of your everyday pvp revolves around BCs or another ship that would take around that long to train for. Getting newbies into those ships asap would benefit everybody I think.

Imagine EVE running an advertisement that says something to the effect of: "Start today. Become an everyday PVP legend in 30 days. Solo or in group." You know, an ad campaign that would advertise just how quickly players can get to be COMPETATIVE, on their own, w/out having to rely on corps where they are used as cannon fodder. I think we would see a huge surge in subs/population, and therefore more fun for all of us.

Just my 2 cents. As far as my personal gaming experience with EVE, it's next to perfect and I love every minute of it.

Plastician
Into The Pink
Posted - 2010.09.30 01:53:00 - [14]
 

This seems to be a common problem with new players (and maybe some others). They think OMGZ I MUST NEEDZ SKILLPOINTS BEFORE I CAN DO ANYTHING FUN, then come on the forums and whine when they have to wait. But this is totally not true. All you need to do is find some friends and be creative. There are things you can do as a 1 week old character to help your older more skilled friends. Yeah, you'll probably die a lot, but you'll learn a lot too and it sure beats the hell out of sitting and waiting for a month.

MrDoco
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.09.30 04:03:00 - [15]
 

It really isn't about skill points but about coming up with new players to sustain Eve. A good analogy is tossing anyone here into a world cup team training schedule, same expectations as the veteran players and expecting anyone to have fun. The rookie channel is great, but we need more. I'm sure I wouldn't have stayed too long if it wasn't for some kind unknown person guiding me. I think new paid accounts should get boosts.

I still don't see why anyone here has a problem with helping new recruits. It only adds more targets for you later!

Njana Ti
Posted - 2010.09.30 09:11:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Njana Ti on 30/09/2010 09:19:24
Ah, teamplay... you don't need skillpoints for teamplay, just a corp, your words and some RL social skill to have tons of fun with a one week old toon in a rifter. Skillpoints != fun in eve, and thats my conclusion after playing this game since four years.

More skillpoints let you use stuff more efficiently, but there are so many killmails with 3-months-old players in t2-fitted battleships... well, having skillpoints is one thing, but competence is the key which you don't have after one month of spinning your ship in a station and waiting for skills to complete. I have died a lot by the hand of players with only 2m SP each, but they were five at once and talked to each other... see? Thats what eve is all about, teamplay!

So join a corp, profit from their experience, die a lot and have fun.

Tesla Grass
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.09.30 12:06:00 - [17]
 

I've played just over a year and am always frustrated by such threads, so much so that I dont really read this section of the forum anymore.
I never ever had trouble in finding something to do whilst I waited for my SP count to grow and get into bigger ships or improve how much damage I do etc.
There is SOOOO MUCH to do in this game, and you dont need a massive amount of SP's to be able to do most of it. Instead of wasted your time coming on here and *****ing about making skills easier or faster to learn, get out and fly around and find something to do, you might even have to use your imagination.
If you dont like it, you don't have to play, there are plenty of us floating around having a great time without you.

Amok Binn
Minmatar
Crimoria Co
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.30 12:22:00 - [18]
 

Every game that lower the difficult bar, eventually sinks and get closed.
What make people addict to EVE is the difficult to learn and master it. You want to beat it.
So stop complaining about how hard is to play or about giving us more skillpoints.
Enjoy the game for what it is. And it is a game with a long learning curve.

(Besides, I play since May, 2010; so I'm new too, if you get the point :P )

Koen L
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2010.09.30 12:32:00 - [19]
 

I wouldnt play eve after so many years, if its not difficult to skill.
I now have about 100 mill sp and i enjoy using them.
I would quit the game immidiately if ccp changes the way of learning skills making all players equally in skillpoints.

We could also give all new players a starting wallet of 10 billion isk and a full set of every implant and a ship of every type to give them a real chance to catch up easily.

It would be boring and most veterans would quit eve, IMHO.

Jennifer Starling
Posted - 2010.09.30 13:39:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 30/09/2010 13:58:33
Originally by: Amok Binn
Every game that lower the difficult bar, eventually sinks and get closed.

Yes that must be the reason no-one plays WoW anymore!

Originally by: Njana Ti
Thats what eve is all about, teamplay!
So join a corp, profit from their experience, die a lot and have fun.

So basically if you don't find very active friends immediately and a good corp in your own timezone it's not worth playing? And if you're more of a solo player better go play another game "because EVE is not for you"?

Originally by: Koen L
I wouldnt play eve after so many years, if its not difficult to skill. I now have about 100 mill sp and i enjoy using them.
I would quit the game immidiately if ccp changes the way of learning skills making all players equally in skillpoints.

It would be boring and most veterans would quit eve, IMHO.

That's very short sighted and paranoid black and white thinking. Making the new player experience more welcoming doesn't equal giving them everything. It's not like everyone in the world is either very poor or trillionaire, right?

If skilling is "so easy" you won't mind deleting your character and start anew do you?

Another thing: if the skilltraining thing would be the only thing that keeps people playing, EVE would be a very poor game. I hope you have other reasons to play because if you derive most of your fun from waiting for skills to finish I really pity you.
I ask you: even if everyone had maxed out skills, what exactly would be so much less fun ("boring") that you'd quit immediately?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.09.30 14:22:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: NewGit
Increasing the training speed would (primarily) help one group of people out, and that is the suicide gankers that need to create and train up new alts frequently. Oh, and the character sellers that need to train up new toons and put them on the market as fast as they can to maximize their profits.

New players will NEVER catch up to older players, and why should they ? Older players have put the time and effort into learning not just the skills, but the different ways the game can be, and is played. Why should a week or month old player be able compete on the same level as a 4-5 year old player ? Old players aren't going to stop training so noobs can catch up to them.

If CCP were to increase the learning speed, or raise the current double speed limit from 1.6 to say 3.2 million SPs, a week later someone would start a thread complaining that new characters can't catch up to old ones and therefore the learning speed/SP limit should be raised (again).

CCP did put in the increased learning speed/1.6 mil, and just recently reduced the prerequisites on certain things (like cloaking devices) to make it quicker and easier for new players, but it's never enough, is it ? And for people who don't want to play "because they'll never catch up to older players" ? I guess they'll never play a lot of games then, because there pretty much will always be "older" and "more experienced" players they'd have to compete with (and against).

Honestly, I can't see how changing learning speed/SP limits would be a major benefit, except for the folks noted in para 1.


Quoting this so Malcanis Law appears under it.

My Postman
Posted - 2010.09.30 14:26:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Koen L
I wouldnt play eve after so many years, if its not difficult to skill.
I now have about 100 mill sp and i enjoy using them.
I would quit the game immidiately if ccp changes the way of learning skills making all players equally in skillpoints.

We could also give all new players a starting wallet of 10 billion isk and a full set of every implant and a ship of every type to give them a real chance to catch up easily.

It would be boring and most veterans would quit eve, IMHO.


Very much this!

Also you forgot the additional 100m free skillpoints.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.09.30 14:27:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Malcanis on 30/09/2010 14:28:16
Originally by: Jennifer Starling

Originally by: Sieges
The learning system is excellent as is. The Learning Skills are optional. New players can still have fun right away, no new player is going to catch up to Tripoli Very Happy I have my learning skills to 5/4 and got them there while I was training for fun things to do along the way. Removing them will take away some of the strategy, sacrifices and choices we have to make along the way in our careers. I think it will dumb-down the game.


As new character you start off at 800 SP/hour - the max speed with max learning skills is 2770 Sp/hour. At the end of a year you'll have 7-8 million Sp, with maxed out learning skills you'll have 24+ million. So not training them isn't really an "option" unless you don't mind still flying a t1 cruiser after a year.


Originally by: Jennifer Starling

That's very short sighted and paranoid black and white thinking. Making the new player experience more welcoming doesn't equal giving them everything. It's not like everyone in the world is either very poor or trillionaire, right?



So you employ the fallacy of the excluded middle in one post to suit your argument, and then debunk it in your next when you dont like it being used against you? Nice.


Edge Horseman
Posted - 2010.09.30 14:44:00 - [24]
 

As a noob myself i agree that the skill system here really sucks, im about to hit 1.6 mill and the numbers evemon is showing me is really putting me off..
All you veterans i couldnt care less that you been playing since 2003 it makes no difference and you dont necerserialy know better..

Why should i have to grind for 1 or 2 years to be able to pvp in a pvp game? Something is wrong..

I have been playing 20 odd days and i might end up quiting, i dont want to as this looks like a great game i just dont have a year to waste waiting, obviously some people do..

Jennifer Starling
Posted - 2010.09.30 14:44:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 30/09/2010 15:39:23

Originally by: Malcanis
So you employ the fallacy of the excluded middle in one post to suit your argument, and then debunk it in your next when you dont like it being used against you? Nice.


I hate it when people see me through! Rolling Eyes

But hey, I did prove training learning skills isn't as "optional" as some people want it to look like! And the rest of my arguments were pretty good as well.

Originally by: My Postman
Also you forgot the additional 100m free skillpoints.

Where's my remaining 99,9 m free skillpoints? ugh You mean 0.1 m?
I'd also like to ask you: even if everyone had maxed out skills, what exactly would be so much less fun ("boring") that you'd quit immediately?

Nova Zembla
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:21:00 - [26]
 

I'll have to agree that the 1.6m sp mark is a tad shallow for brand new players. Most of the newbies don't even realize they are getting a speed bonus, then quit once they see a skill that said it would take 2 days to learn now takes 15 days the day after(of course they were right at the mark of going over 1.6mil the day prior) and thus quit.
I, for one, wish the preset character map was still around..must have been nice to start off with say, gunnery V and so forth and only need to train 1 skill to get into T2's. I know when i first saw '21 days to complete' was a real turn off, and I quit the game out of frustration. I'm back only after I have learned a lot more about the game.

All in all, at least 1 mil extra sp would help, and at least throw a warning message up when you are 50% done with your speed increase to alert the new players giving them time to 'maybe I should put this skill here instead of learning to give me something to look forward to'

Damionity
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:32:00 - [27]
 

It is a little frustrating waiting so long for training. I started an account then knew what my roll was going to be, a miner. So I found out what I needed for what ships and made my plans and started them off. I played wow for 5 years and I'm here to tell you I am over doing quests, here called missions. So once my training got lined up I felt like 'what now for the next 3-4 weeks?' I don't expect or want everything to be a gimme but in most cases people tend to get turned off by the wait time. When my skills hit lvl 4+ and it's over a day wait I basically make a note of what day/time the skill is up,and don't even log in except to put another skill in queue. I would almost prefer to pay for an extra month of time just to speed the clock up 30 days so I can actually play. Mining in a Bestrow is only so much fun. After a week, forget it.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2010.09.30 16:44:00 - [28]
 

Honestly I think the game could use some tweaks to the training system. I spent a year almost exclusively on Int/Mem support skills. The reason I stayed so focused on them is that on a map that optimizes ship/weapon skills it bloats the hell out of those support skills that are critical if not required for more advanced ships.

But now that I've gotten over that hurdle (at least on the skills that were the pre-req's for the sub-cap ships I want to fly. I find myself looking at a couple more years to get to where I want to be with my sub cap ships taken care of.

Now don't get me wrong I don't really have a problem with differed gratification. But I'm not exactly typical. and even I find the length of some of these trains daunting.

If something isn't done to adjust the gap eventually the separation between new and older players will reach the point where new blood just isn't going to be interested in spending 3 years just to fly the cooler stuff.

A lot is made by older players about how the current 100% to 1.6mil accelerated training gives newbies a leg up but the truth is that that 100% bonus was put in place to make up for the fact that previously people got to start with 800k sp and it was engineered to put a new player to 1.6 about the same time an older player would reach the same number of SP.

So arguments of how much easier it is today based on that are empty.

One big problem I've found is that the way skilling is tied to attributes makes it extremely inefficient to experiment and branch out. Even trying to specialize it can be a major impediment since any "specialization" requires a wide range of skills to enable.

Another negative is that the way skill training works now acts as a disincentive to take risks. The benefit of learning implants in reducing training times is huge. +5's reduce the train time on my OPTIMIZED 2.5 year skill plan by 259 days. That is huge and definitely affects my decisions about playing in low or null. And something should really be done to address that issue to encourage more risk taking. As it stands now one is either going to risk (and almost certainly lose) half a billion isk worth of implants if you want to maximize your training and have fun in Null. Which is a rather big deal to newer players.

A couple of idea's I'd suggest to make the process slightly more newbie friendly and less daunting while not completely trivializing the skilling process would be.

1. Increase the frequency of remaps from 1 year to 3 months. This would provide more flexibility while not speeding training up across to board. It would make it easier for people to change focus and try new things and mix in different skillsets without unduly adding to training times over the long term.

2. Lower the cost of learning implants. I've seen idea's passed about to make implants indestructible through some mechanism of another but I think that is a bad idea. Since it would affect hardwirings and pirate implants as well trivializing the risks involved in getting those combat advantages.

Pure learning implants do not provide any direct immediate combat advantage so enforcing massive risk to their use doesn't make as much sense. Their price is also easily controllable by lowering the LP costs of the implants themselves. Lowering the LP costs of these items would increase their availability and reduce isk cost thus encouraging more people to go out and take risks since as they could do so with minimal cost of replacement.

I think those two changes would go a long way towards addressing the problems that the real time training system presents new players without contributing to mudflation to any great degree. They would ease things for the new player while not increasing the gap (as any blanket change to skilling times would) nor removing the advantages the older player gets for their long commitment to the game

Nova Zembla
Posted - 2010.09.30 17:26:00 - [29]
 

I can see how making the learning implants indestructible can help out the newer players. As for the fact you'll need at least +3's to make a decent dent in a newbies skill plan. The cost of the implants is a another factor for a new player. They will have to go buy a +3 here and another a lil ways down the road which will ruin their 'planned goal' as newbies don't really know what they want out of the game until they try all the different aspects of it. They might start as a mission pve'er and one day go mine for the first time and just love it to death.

Theres a lot to take in with EVE and even getting your first implant as a newbie is a huge process. I remember when I saved up enough isk to just get some +3's to later on that day get podded. I'm all for indestructible implants(only on learning, no hardwire/pirate/crystal/whatever) but make it so that you only keep +2 or +3's, anything higher WILL get destroyed.


Lowering remap times will be a huge boost to everyone. You might like pvp today, and hate it a week later and decide you want to just be a trader. You have 10 months left on your remap. It could hurt you to the point you up and leave the game. I've seen it happen, its fairly common. You get to a part of your plan, then have no idea where/what to do as a remap would help greatly, but your current map wont be worth it to continue down a certain path.

Game is sandbox, do your own thing. Attributes could use some work IMO and not make them entirely based off skill times. Maybe having mostly per/will give you a slight combat boost of some sort.

I'm happy with the game and its mechanics as is but I know a lot of it can be frustrating for newer players and I would love to see a lot more players joining EVE and staying for a long time. Thats just me.


I'll except some tl;dr's

Plastician
Into The Pink
Posted - 2010.10.01 04:11:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Edge Horseman

Why should i have to grind for 1 or 2 years to be able to pvp in a pvp game? Something is wrong..



Why on earth noobs think they need to have 1 or 2 years skills to be able to PVP is beyond me. Yes, maybe you have to wait longer to have decent skills for a T2 cruiser plus all the support skills, but you don't need to wait this long to actually PVP. Also, decision making a long the way is also part of the game i.e. "Would it be more beneficial to me for my style of play to train capacitor skills before shield skills?".

Plus, the time it takes you to get the skills for the higher levels of ships is about the time you need to have enough real skills to pilot them properly anyway.

Is it just that noobs are afraid to PVP unless they have the perfect fit/skills?


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