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blankseplocked Naglfar needs mOre dps noW!
 
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GTN
The Reformed
Bondage Patrol
Posted - 2010.09.27 16:37:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: GTN on 27/09/2010 17:38:31
Naglfar has split weapOn systems, we need to Train large projectile turret 5, cruise missiles 5, torpedoes 5, gunnery skills and missile skills just to Be Able to fly it wtf! devs did you ever spend months just to train for it??

we minmatar piLots hAve to traiN double the skillpoints relative to all the other raCes to get the same dps on our dreadnought.
So give us Either a cheaper Dreadnought or more dps! YARRRR!!YARRRR!!

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.09.27 17:27:00 - [2]
 

did nobody tell you that minmatar is eve in hardcore mode without extra benefits?

Brother Theos
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2010.09.28 01:31:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Brother Theos on 28/09/2010 01:32:06
As an Amarrian pilot with no interest in flying a Minmatar ship, I FULLY AGREE with this. With four capital weapons, it makes sense that the Naglfar should do (a maximum of about) 30% more DPS than other Dreads.

To compensate for this extra DPS, the Naglfar should have a significantly (perhaps 10%-20%) weaker tank than other Dreads.

To CCP, the simple test to see if you have Dreadnaughts balanced is to check out their relative abundance in a fleet fight. When you see, 50 Revs, 40 Moros, 3 Nags, 1 Phoenix in a fight, shouldn't you get the hint that something is not quite right.

Oh ... and Amarr Victor!

Alec Freeman
Minmatar
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2010.09.28 02:00:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Brother Theos
Edited by: Brother Theos on 28/09/2010 01:32:06
As an Amarrian pilot with no interest in flying a Minmatar ship, I FULLY AGREE with this. With four capital weapons, it makes sense that the Naglfar should do (a maximum of about) 30% more DPS than other Dreads.

To compensate for this extra DPS, the Naglfar should have a significantly (perhaps 10%-20%) weaker tank than other Dreads.

To CCP, the simple test to see if you have Dreadnaughts balanced is to check out their relative abundance in a fleet fight. When you see, 50 Revs, 40 Moros, 3 Nags, 1 Phoenix in a fight, shouldn't you get the hint that something is not quite right.

Oh ... and Amarr Victor!


Its a minmatar capital ship... it already has signifigantly less tank than the others Confused

Magic Crisp
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.09.28 09:09:00 - [5]
 

I'd generalize this. This whole "A powerful dual-weapon platform" idea is bull****. You have the same number of weapon mount points (turret+launcher together), you get _1_ bonus to each, and not 2, as with single-weapon platforms. Basically it's half the amount of bonuses to weapons. Make two kind of ships out of it, or anything, just stop this dual platform madness, it's absolutely useless.

Nuts Nougat
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2010.09.28 10:18:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Nuts Nougat on 28/09/2010 10:22:07
You people obviously have no idea what you're talking about. ATM, naglfar is the best dread in the game. And this is coming from me, I always whine about minmatar being underpowered. It's just that awesome.

Let's see:
1. Weapons use no cap. As soon as you're out of siege, you're out. (same as phoenix)
2. Since weapons use no cap, in a pinch you can use your cap for tank. (same as phoenix)
3. Tank is 2nd best of all dreads, right behind the phoenix. And by right behind I mean right behind, not like the other 2 dreads that barely have any active tank compared, after cap usage from weapons.
4. DPS is right up there with all other dreads, higher if you can be bothered training the skills to 5.
5. Sure split weapons suck, but it still beats having torps as your only damage source (ugh phoenix).

If anything, dreads as a whole need fixing now that we have supercarriers. However that's another issue. Until then, leave naglfar alone.

Edit: About the extra training requirements, read what darius said. ugh

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2010.09.28 13:08:00 - [7]
 

Is your Shift kEy brokEn? Wink

GTN
The Reformed
Bondage Patrol
Posted - 2010.09.28 20:36:00 - [8]
 

When skills = real money
Then double training time = double money for CCP
Now, since I trained Minmatar BS 5, spent 450m isk just for Minmatar Carrier skill, and after trying it several times, NIDHOGGUR SUCKS!!!!!!
Oh, I also tried Hel, IT SUCKS!!!!! It went down in less than 1 minute! Now the same fleet that downed my Hel, took 15 minutes to bring an Aeon to half armor, and it just disappeared from the game since he logged off.
Now I must train for archon/thanatos, but, you know, it has a price, in real money and ISK (which I need to get somehow).

CCP should state in the ships descriptions, THAT MINMATAR CAPITALS SUCK!!!!

Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
Posted - 2010.09.28 20:44:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Magic Crisp
I'd generalize this. This whole "A powerful dual-weapon platform" idea is bull****. You have the same number of weapon mount points (turret+launcher together), you get _1_ bonus to each, and not 2, as with single-weapon platforms. Basically it's half the amount of bonuses to weapons. Make two kind of ships out of it, or anything, just stop this dual platform madness, it's absolutely useless.


I agree with this. Stop the madness or give dual weapon platform ships dual weapon bonuses.

SickSeven
Simplistic Syndicate
Posted - 2010.09.28 21:01:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Mire Stoude
Originally by: Magic Crisp
I'd generalize this. This whole "A powerful dual-weapon platform" idea is bull****. You have the same number of weapon mount points (turret+launcher together), you get _1_ bonus to each, and not 2, as with single-weapon platforms. Basically it's half the amount of bonuses to weapons. Make two kind of ships out of it, or anything, just stop this dual platform madness, it's absolutely useless.


I agree with this. Stop the madness or give dual weapon platform ships dual weapon bonuses.


Yup. OR maybe... Give the Nag 3+Turrett slots and 3+Missle slots similar to what they did to the Phoon. The Problem with that is they would have to change the model... which I rather they didn't! So yeah, we are back to changing the bonuses then.

Remove missle slots and skill requirement and give it a role bonus of 50% damage to XL Turretts.

GTN
The Reformed
Bondage Patrol
Posted - 2010.09.28 21:12:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: SickSeven
Originally by: Mire Stoude
Originally by: Magic Crisp
I'd generalize this. This whole "A powerful dual-weapon platform" idea is bull****. You have the same number of weapon mount points (turret+launcher together), you get _1_ bonus to each, and not 2, as with single-weapon platforms. Basically it's half the amount of bonuses to weapons. Make two kind of ships out of it, or anything, just stop this dual platform madness, it's absolutely useless.


I agree with this. Stop the madness or give dual weapon platform ships dual weapon bonuses.


Yup. OR maybe... Give the Nag 3+Turrett slots and 3+Missle slots similar to what they did to the Phoon. The Problem with that is they would have to change the model... which I rather they didn't! So yeah, we are back to changing the bonuses then.

Remove missle slots and skill requirement and give it a role bonus of 50% damage to XL Turretts.


You mean 100%

SickSeven
Simplistic Syndicate
Posted - 2010.09.28 23:52:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: GTN
Originally by: SickSeven
Originally by: Mire Stoude
Originally by: Magic Crisp
I'd generalize this. This whole "A powerful dual-weapon platform" idea is bull****. You have the same number of weapon mount points (turret+launcher together), you get _1_ bonus to each, and not 2, as with single-weapon platforms. Basically it's half the amount of bonuses to weapons. Make two kind of ships out of it, or anything, just stop this dual platform madness, it's absolutely useless.


I agree with this. Stop the madness or give dual weapon platform ships dual weapon bonuses.


Yup. OR maybe... Give the Nag 3+Turrett slots and 3+Missle slots similar to what they did to the Phoon. The Problem with that is they would have to change the model... which I rather they didn't! So yeah, we are back to changing the bonuses then.

Remove missle slots and skill requirement and give it a role bonus of 50% damage to XL Turretts.


You mean 100%


That might be too much. The NAG can actually put up a really good burst tank, but these days, and even before SCs, I dont think active tanking counts for much in large fleet battles. 100% Bonus to Proj. Turrets would definitely make it the the 'shootiest' Dread, but I think they would have to nerf it's tank/ehp a little to balance that.

MyVodka
Posted - 2010.09.29 09:09:00 - [13]
 

All Dreadnoughts need to be improved! They have very little or no use in pvp apart from shooting a pos.


GTN
The Reformed
Bondage Patrol
Posted - 2010.09.29 15:10:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: GTN on 29/09/2010 15:12:26
Originally by: SickSeven
Remove missle slots and skill requirement and give it a role bonus of 50% damage to XL Turretts.


If you first cut dps by half removing missiles, you have to double proj to get the same dps, so 50% bonus to proj and no missiles would be like nerfing naglfar by 25%.

Ardetia
Caldari
Killer Koalas
Posted - 2010.09.29 15:32:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Is your Shift kEy brokEn? Wink


he wrote a message, "not balanced"
wasnt that hard to figure out now was it

steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.09.30 09:08:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: GTN
Edited by: GTN on 29/09/2010 15:12:26
Originally by: SickSeven
Remove missle slots and skill requirement and give it a role bonus of 50% damage to XL Turretts.


If you first cut dps by half removing missiles, you have to double proj to get the same dps, so 50% bonus to proj and no missiles would be like nerfing naglfar by 25%.

Since it only get bonuses to the turrets, only a third of the dps come from missiles.

Usedpodsforsale
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:49:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Usedpodsforsale on 30/09/2010 15:50:31
CCP have some strange obsession with the nag being a "versatile" dread even though the concept is rather imbecilic as dreads have a quite singular purpose.


Personally I would like to see:

3/7/4
100% bonus to capital projectile damage
5-7.5% (too lazy to run the numbers) to capital proj RoF

Woah, no need for a model change and no excuse for the art department to start crying!

Nuts Nougat
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2010.10.01 14:03:00 - [18]
 

Seriously. Leave naglfars alone please. They're bloody awesome now, anyone saying otherwise is a bloody scrub and should shut up.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2010.10.01 14:37:00 - [19]
 

Erm, the Naglfar already has the highest DPS when close-range fit, and the highest DPS when using short-range ammo on long-range weapons. And it has the greatest ability to select damage types. The training time is a pain, but it's most definitely not first in line when complaining about delayed damage from the missile slots.

GTN
The Reformed
Bondage Patrol
Posted - 2010.10.02 23:20:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
the Naglfar

Originally by: Gypsio III
is a pain

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2010.10.03 00:55:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Ardetia
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Is your Shift kEy brokEn? Wink


he wrote a message, "not balanced"
wasnt that hard to figure out now was it



Psst, read my post again. Smile

DuKackBoon
Posted - 2010.10.03 01:02:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
the Naglfar


Originally by: Gypsio III
has the highest DPS

GTN
The Reformed
Bondage Patrol
Posted - 2010.10.03 09:16:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: DuKackBoon
Originally by: Gypsio III
the Naglfar


Originally by: Gypsio III
has the highest DPS



This is untrue for large dread fights, where the target dies before your very slow torpedos can reach him.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2010.10.03 09:57:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: GTN
Originally by: DuKackBoon
Originally by: Gypsio III
the Naglfar


Originally by: Gypsio III
has the highest DPS



This is untrue for large dread fights, where the target dies before your very slow torpedos can reach him.


Then this thread should be entitled "Phoenix needs mOre dps noW!". Rolling Eyes

GTN
The Reformed
Bondage Patrol
Posted - 2010.10.03 10:10:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: GTN on 03/10/2010 10:12:13
Originally by: Gypsio III
Then this thread should be entitled "Phoenix needs mOre dps noW!". Rolling Eyes


"phoenix Needs mOre dps noW!"
Well, if you give phoenix more dps, it wont change anything, he wont be able to hit anyway.

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2010.10.03 10:17:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: GTN
Originally by: DuKackBoon
Originally by: Gypsio III
the Naglfar


Originally by: Gypsio III
has the highest DPS



This is untrue for large dread fights, where the target dies before your very slow torpedos can reach him.
This is FC fault, not the ship. If he will just call primary and secondary, he is going to waste a lot of potential DPS from torpedoes.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2010.10.03 10:32:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: GTN
Edited by: GTN on 03/10/2010 10:12:13
Originally by: Gypsio III
Then this thread should be entitled "Phoenix needs mOre dps noW!". Rolling Eyes


"phoenix Needs mOre dps noW!"
Well, if you give phoenix more dps, it wont change anything, he wont be able to hit anyway.


Then we can safely quadruple the Phoenix's DPS. I trust that I have your support, then?


 

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