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Alara IonStorm
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.25 18:47:00 - [31]
 

Lo-Sec Snipers should exceed Null!

Adyny Rieph
Posted - 2010.09.25 19:23:00 - [32]
 

I've always said Lowsec isn't broken, but the people who inhabit lowsec at least frequently have made it off-limits to people like me who want some measure of danger in the game, but not senseless blowing up of T1 frigates by a 6 year old player in a T2 Battleship/Battlecruiser fully fitted with pirate/faction mods and weapons just for the sake of being a ****. This has happened to me a few times, and 99% of the time I've decided to go and have a mooch around lowsec, ratting or whatever, I'm always targeted on gates or hunted down, even though I never go there in anything but T1 ships (and never anything bigger than a cheap cruiser, because I know I'm probably going to get it blown up).

Lowsec IS somewhere between highsec and nullsec in the rewards department. There are rats with 100-400k bounties that are simple to kill in even a T1 cruiser or BC, the asteroids are ridiculously big, the radar/ladar/other scannable sites offer better rewards than highsec, the loot and salvage from ratting is on par with a level 4 mission except it can be easily obtained in a Battlecruiser.

Lowsec is absolutely, unquestionably, not up for debate, working as intended. The reason it's deserted is because of the general attitude of a majority of the people in this game. See something in lowsec? SHOOT IT! It's only a T1 ship and is absolutely no threat to you, and the money you'll make from the T1 mods is like 50k? SO WHAT, SHOOT IT!!!!!! When I first joined the game, somebody, another newbie I suppose, told me that lowsec had CONCORDE, but the lower the system you go to, the longer it takes for them to show up. I thought that was brilliant, a very good way of portraying systems in space that are like gun wielding, drug addict infested neighbourhoods in the real world. Perhaps it should be like that. Perhaps 0.4 should have Concorde at gates and stations but nowhere else. Perhaps 0.3 should have CONCORDE at stations only, or gates only. Perhaps 0.2 and 0.1 should have no CONCORDE at all in the system, but have them show up at a delayed response if a law abiding citizen is attacked in those systems at gates or stations.

However, I don't think CONCORDE should show up anywhere else in lowsec though, like if you're attacked and you're not at a station or a gate. This would make lowsec great. It would get people in there doing things. Perhaps it would be good also to make missions in lowsec require ships fitted for PvP, but for this to work there would need to be a chance that NPC's inside mission sites will also attack the other incoming player who is intending to attack the mission runner, which would be understandable really.

Plenty could be done to improve lowsec, even though it is actually working as intended and the only thing making it deserted and crap are the people I mentioned at the top of this post.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.09.25 19:24:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Orange Lagomorph
Originally by: Kerfira
Cheap gate-ganker spotted... Razz

Just stop.

Removing the ability to camp gates and stations free of CONCORD intervention is a completely ridiculous notion.

Wow... Just spotted another one Razz

Explain just WHY it is 'a completely ridiculous notion', because it isn't!

It'll make low-sec the area it was intended, ie. between high-sec and 0.0 in risk. It'll remove the major impediment to people actually DOING stuff in low-sec, ie. that they can't GET there to do it safely. AND, it'll make real pirates have more targets, while removing the cheap gate-ganker.

Total WIN for everyone (except of course previously mentioned cheap ganker) Cool


No, I'm not, and I've probably killed and been killed by more pirates than 99% of the people on this board who habitually accuse me of being pirate when I criticize their ridiculous ideas for lowsec.

Your proposal is not a "WIN" for anyone, because it adds nothing. It removes a valid playstyle for no benefit. Nothing about your proposal makes PVE in lowsec any more viable or attractive, unless I missed the memo and astroid belts and missions spawn at stations now. Any player who couldn't escape a lowsec gate camp sure as hell isn't going to be able to survive being scanned down in their mission, and will rage quit just as forcefully as the gate camp victim. Simultaneously with this addition of nothing to the game, it removes the possibility of fighting on gates.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.09.25 19:26:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Adyny Rieph

Lowsec is absolutely, unquestionably, not up for debate, working as intended. The reason it's deserted is because of the general attitude of a majority of the people in this game. See something in lowsec? SHOOT IT! It's only a T1 ship and is absolutely no threat to you, and the money you'll make from the T1 mods is like 50k? SO WHAT, SHOOT IT!!!!!!


Exactly. The only nerf that would really improve lowsec is removing killmails.

Orange Lagomorph
Posted - 2010.09.25 19:31:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Adyny Rieph
The reason it's deserted is because of the general attitude of a majority of the people in this game. See something in lowsec? SHOOT IT! It's only a T1 ship and is absolutely no threat to you, and the money you'll make from the T1 mods is like 50k? SO WHAT, SHOOT IT!!!!!!


I couldn't agree more.

Shooting everything and everyone = fewer targets in the future. This is EVE's future, and so there are now fewer targets.

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.09.25 19:54:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Exactly. The only nerf that would really improve lowsec is removing killmails.


That would help, but people naturally go for the easiest method, and when it comes to wanting to PvP that's sitting on a gate shooting fish in a barrel.

If gates were removed you'd see far less people scanning down mission runners than you now see camping gates. Using probes requires some degree of intelligence, and warping to them holds the possibility you're entering a trap yourself. It's not like hisec where you can warp to mission runners knowing CONCORD is watching out for you.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2010.09.25 20:33:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Kerfira on 25/09/2010 20:34:42
Originally by: Orange Lagomorph
It's a bad idea because the vast majority of mission-runners avoid lowsec.

And why do they do that?

Some people would like to do missions in low-sec, but they're hampered by one fact: You get missions in another system, and then you have to get there! You can not do that in a mission capable ship without a second character to do the scouting!

Thus the reason for safe travel, to INCREASE the number of people who DO things in low-sec! Increasing the number also means increasing the number of possible targets!

If low-sec is to flourish, the danger of low-sec has to go down. Making travel safe is the best way of doing this.

What is best? The dead low-sec we have today with few targets (except other pirates), or a living low-sec with more numerous, but better protected targets?
The real pirates (those that are willing to work for their targets) would flourish, the cheap ones would not... That is pretty damn good game mechanics!

Orange Lagomorph
Posted - 2010.09.25 20:42:00 - [38]
 

If pirates are forced to turn their attention from gate camping to scanning down mission runners, traveling might be safer, but actually doing the missions would be significantly more dangerous.

Hence, this is zero-sum suggestion. Carebears will accept only minimal risk.

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.09.25 20:57:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Orange Lagomorph
Carebears will accept only minimal risk.


We'll never know, i guess. Risk isn't even a factor in the current system, because there's zero chance of surviving a camp in anything that isn't a cov ops or fast aligning frigate, so not taking PvE ships there just makes sense.

Valorous Bob
The Real OC
Cascade Probable
Posted - 2010.09.25 21:44:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Originally by: Adyny Rieph

Lowsec is absolutely, unquestionably, not up for debate, working as intended. The reason it's deserted is because of the general attitude of a majority of the people in this game. See something in lowsec? SHOOT IT! It's only a T1 ship and is absolutely no threat to you, and the money you'll make from the T1 mods is like 50k? SO WHAT, SHOOT IT!!!!!!


Exactly. The only nerf that would really improve lowsec is removing killmails.


I'd support this, and the rage from C&P would be hilarious! Laughing

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.09.25 22:54:00 - [41]
 

You're wrong.


Null is more dangerous.

While low sec may be more hostile for a lone pilot, 0.0 is far more dangerous to an alliance/corp.

You cannot invest the infrastructure you can in low sec that you can in 0.0. CSAA's, TCU's, IHUB's, Outposts, these things alone are extremely expensive when added up, especially the maintenance and upkeep of full, strategically upgraded IHUBS.

So, no... there's more at risk and investment required to sustain a 0.0 alliance/corp. Rewards should remain a notch above low sec.

Orange Lagomorph
Posted - 2010.09.25 23:03:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Zagdul
So, no... there's more at risk and investment required to sustain a 0.0 alliance/corp. Rewards should remain a notch above low sec.


Yet it's also far easier to get those rewards "on farm" once you've secured your territory. I personally see this as a zero-sum endeavor... pardon the pun, et cetera.

"A notch above" would actually be fine, but I'd say it's more like three or four notches above, currently which is enough to fund the necessary investments with plenty left over for individual wallets.

Ultimately, succeeding in nullsec requires a zerg. It also requires that your zerg not be formed entirely of chimps with keyboards, but that's true of most things in life (though not all... by no means all).

Ghoest
Posted - 2010.09.25 23:32:00 - [43]
 

The OP is a lou lou.

Sig Sour
Posted - 2010.09.25 23:39:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Adyny Rieph
Lowsec IS somewhere between highsec and nullsec in the rewards department. There are rats with 100-400k bounties that are simple to kill in even a T1 cruiser or BC, the asteroids are ridiculously big, the radar/ladar/other scannable sites offer better rewards than highsec, the loot and salvage from ratting is on par with a level 4 mission except it can be easily obtained in a Battlecruiser.


You are correct that the rewards are between null and high, but you are completely wrong about what puts it there. The faction war brings low sec up to where it should be. All the **** you listed is wrong. The faction war should be expanded to ALL low sec with ALL FACTIONS.

Orange Lagomorph
Posted - 2010.09.26 00:02:00 - [45]
 

Here's an approximation of rewards progression by security category (taking mining, ratting and missions into account):

[-Empire---]
[-Lowsec------]
[-Nullsec------------------]

Let's factor in rich ganking opportunities for highsec and lowsec (hint: highsec has a lot more of them):

[-Empire------]
[-Lowsec-------]
[-Nullsec------------------]

And I guess one FW bar for Empire, two for Lowsec:

[-Empire-------]
[-Lowsec---------]
[-Nullsec------------------]

This pretty much explains why lowsec is relatively deserted. And perhaps it should be, I dunno.

Monte Shill
Posted - 2010.09.26 08:19:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Orange Lagomorph
If pirates are forced to turn their attention from gate camping to scanning down mission runners, traveling might be safer, but actually doing the missions would be significantly more dangerous.

You can thank CCP for this statement. It was called Apocyphra, when scanning got easier and now everyone + dog and that animals college roommate can how scan you out. It took longer to scan out players pre-apoc and deadspace actually protected the mission runner better, now it isn't even worth the hassle to go lowsec for even courier missions when the lp + reward is worth less then the industrial that got blown up. Add to the fact that active tank PVE ships do not mix well against buffer PVE tanks (7 years and this hasn't been balanced? great investment of time to get hull tanking cert), missions in lowsec require the same ship types as highsec (BS = bug on the dinner plate unless you go HAC or unprobeable T3) and scanning out a mission runner takes minutes, yet once that mission space is found its cancel mission and good by standings. Its pointless to mission in lowsec unless you can hold that system with your corp, which is why alot of people run highsec missions solo and hit those agents uninterrupted like a pimp hits his girl .

Exploited Engineer
Posted - 2010.09.26 08:41:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Exploited Engineer on 26/09/2010 08:46:25
Edited by: Exploited Engineer on 26/09/2010 08:44:20
Originally by: Fkn Arson
I believe the majority of those thousands don't enter low-sec/null-sec because they don't want to get into a fight, and are happy spending hours in missions/trading/whatever in highsec.


I'd happily do more missions in low-sec if the rewards were worth it. A paltry 33% more ISK/LP (0.1 low-sec compared to doing missions in a 0.5 high-sec system) doesn't properly compensate for the additional risk.

There should be a visible step up in reward amount when going from 0.5 high-sec to 0.4 low-sec. Right now, there isn't.

Ruhige Schmerz
New Eden Scientific Association
Posted - 2010.09.26 11:13:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Adyny Rieph
The reason it's deserted is because of the general attitude of a majority of the people in this game. See something in lowsec? SHOOT IT! It's only a T1 ship and is absolutely no threat to you, and the money you'll make from the T1 mods is like 50k? SO WHAT, SHOOT IT!!!!!!


Unless you're gonna pull over and let us search, we don't know that you're "no threat" to us. If you took some time to go live in lowsec with a suitable corp for a bit rather than just visiting, you'd understand this. You think cyno's, cap fleets and titans are only for nullsec? You're wrong.

Plenty of the big nullsec alliances hotdrop capfleets on lowsec corps/alliances just because they're bored.

I lived a long time in lowsec. You get occasional little powerbloc's trying to claim a lowsec system or constellation, but for the most part, it's almost-carebears trying to eek out a living, with a pvp wing to defend their operations, and most of the other "locals" blue.

Non-blue things come in rarely, and when they do, you jump on them for two reasons.

1. Something to shoot!!! It's mostly blues that come through, boring life out there.

2. Might be a trap!! I've seen just about everything with a highslot spawn a cyno in lowsec. Often they'll cyno chain.. one little ship "tricks" you into attacking and opens a cyno, one carrier comes through. Local cap fleet comes to slap the carrier down, and another cyno opens to drop in 8 more.

Quote:

CONCORDE....CONCORDE....CONCORDE....CONCORDE....CONCORDE

There's no E in CONCORD.


Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.09.26 11:19:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Orange Lagomorph

It's a bad idea because the vast majority of mission-runners avoid lowsec. There may be a fair amount of lowsec exploration I'm not too sure about that. Regardless, introducing CONCORD protection to stations and gates will halve pirates' available vectors to commit piracy. They deserve to be buffed, not nerfed.



You see:

1) increasing PvE rewards don't buff pirates;

2) buffing pirate activity (directly or indirectly) is what CCP has done again and again, the end result has been the abandoning of low sec by non-pirates sand the cryes by pirates about the lack of targets. Making pirate life "easier" will not increase the targets, it will decrease them further.

Think low sec as a ecological niche, if you make the predators more efficient you reduce the number of prey available. The problem is that low sec hasn't a balancing factor based in the death from starvation of the predators, pirates can always get isk to replace ships and pay for ammunitions (doing PvE in high sec, selling plex or with a myriad of other activities).

So low sec is made barren by the people living there.

The possible solutions are a combination of 2 things:

1) Making PvE a bit safer so that more people will get in low sec (increasing rewards will not work, it need to be safer to entice "carebears", the rewards are already higher than high sec);

2) adding a lot of low sec space with several alternative routes so that the pirate will have to spread thin and there will be always an alternate route to a destination point.

Breaking up the low sec missions hubs so that there are a lot of systems with 1 L4 q20 agent instead of a few with 3 l4q20 and 3 L3q20 agents would help too, but not without the other changes.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.09.26 20:17:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Orange Lagomorph
Carebears will accept only minimal risk.


We'll never know, i guess. Risk isn't even a factor in the current system, because there's zero chance of surviving a camp in anything that isn't a cov ops or fast aligning frigate, so not taking PvE ships there just makes sense.


Camps are very, very easy to avoid. First, you know where they're probably going to be ahead of time, and you can go around those choke points. Or you base past them, and just use a shuttle to get through the camped area.

Everyone acts like lowsec is just a giant deathtrap. It isn't. It really, really isn't. You just have to actually learn things, like what corps pirate, what corps are NRDS, what gates are typically camped, and how to survive common gank attempts. I figured all that out pretty quickly as a very young character. Now I've been playing a little over a year, and I prosper in lowsec. And I'm not even a very good pvp'er (yet).

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.09.26 20:21:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 26/09/2010 20:22:51
Originally by: Exploited Engineer
Edited by: Exploited Engineer on 26/09/2010 08:46:25
Edited by: Exploited Engineer on 26/09/2010 08:44:20
Originally by: Fkn Arson
I believe the majority of those thousands don't enter low-sec/null-sec because they don't want to get into a fight, and are happy spending hours in missions/trading/whatever in highsec.


I'd happily do more missions in low-sec if the rewards were worth it. A paltry 33% more ISK/LP (0.1 low-sec compared to doing missions in a 0.5 high-sec system) doesn't properly compensate for the additional risk.

There should be a visible step up in reward amount when going from 0.5 high-sec to 0.4 low-sec. Right now, there isn't.



There are plenty of lowsec systems that offer multiple Q20 agents in the same system, providing a total reward far in excess of anything available in highsec. It is possible to make fantastic profit in these sytems, even considering the occassional successful pirate gank. I was making money there despite the ganks, and I didn't even know how to use the scanner. Yes, I was that terrible, and it still paid off. You aren't there because you are afraid you will get ganked once in a while, and spaceship violence is unnacceptable to you. That's fine. We all have different playstyles. But it renders your authority on the matter of playing in lowsec extremely limited.

To all the highsec players in this thread: Not wanting to get blown up is just fine, but because a region doesn't mesh with your playstyle does not mean the region is broken.

Psiri
Posted - 2010.09.26 20:27:00 - [52]
 

Lowsec should be 0.0 with NPC sov, sentry guns and pherhaps just slightly weaker rats in the 0.4-0.3 systems. Supercaps shouldn't be allowed to enter.

Adyny Rieph
Posted - 2010.09.26 22:02:00 - [53]
 

See, I just went to lowsec to prove my own point. I bought a Caracal, fitted it with ratting modules and off I went. I lasted 27 minutes. First system I went to was empty. Second had a few people in it so I started going belt to belt killing rats. After 27 minutes some guy in a Federation Navy Comet warped in right on top of me, scrammed and killed me. I was a T1 cruiser in T1, un-named modules. What was the point? There wasn't one. That's why lowsec is deserted, because the people who whine about it being deserted, IE, the people like that one that just killed me, made it that way.

Wink

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.09.26 22:43:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Adyny Rieph
See, I just went to lowsec to prove my own point. I bought a Caracal, fitted it with ratting modules and off I went. I lasted 27 minutes. First system I went to was empty. Second had a few people in it so I started going belt to belt killing rats. After 27 minutes some guy in a Federation Navy Comet warped in right on top of me, scrammed and killed me. I was a T1 cruiser in T1, un-named modules. What was the point? There wasn't one. That's why lowsec is deserted, because the people who whine about it being deserted, IE, the people like that one that just killed me, made it that way.

Wink


While I agree with what you are trying to say (people kill people for pure KM whoring in lowsec, leading to lowsec having less vitality than it could), your example doesn't prove it. You could have easily been t2 fit, or had something valuable in your cargo. The pirate's actions in your case were perfectly rational, ISK-wise.

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.09.26 23:08:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Orange Lagomorph
Carebears will accept only minimal risk.


We'll never know, i guess. Risk isn't even a factor in the current system, because there's zero chance of surviving a camp in anything that isn't a cov ops or fast aligning frigate, so not taking PvE ships there just makes sense.


Camps are very, very easy to avoid. First, you know where they're probably going to be ahead of time, and you can go around those choke points. Or you base past them, and just use a shuttle to get through the camped area.

Everyone acts like lowsec is just a giant deathtrap. It isn't. It really, really isn't. You just have to actually learn things, like what corps pirate, what corps are NRDS, what gates are typically camped, and how to survive common gank attempts. I figured all that out pretty quickly as a very young character. Now I've been playing a little over a year, and I prosper in lowsec. And I'm not even a very good pvp'er (yet).


I should have clarified i fly PvE Battleships, and it is suicide trying to take one of those into lowsec regularly. Even with all the scouting ahead that's humanly possible. You're going to be a dream come true for the first camp you run unto, and probably get laughed at for even attempting such a thing.

You are right when it comes to smaller PvE ships. Can push your luck pretty far in a cruiser doing missions in lowsec, and frigates are no problem at all unless you run into an instalock fleet. They're also relatively cheap, so you're not out hundreds of millions everytime you land in a camp.

It's really just that because gates and gatecamps exist people are forced to think about align times and cov ops cloaks just to avoid gatecamps, and it severely limits the amount of people who go there and the types of ships they take. Even though the easymode PvP gatecamps provide is seen as a cornerstone of EVE PvP it would honestly be the best thing for PvP overall to just remove the damned things.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.09.26 23:10:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
So low sec is made barren by the people living there.
This. There really isn't much to discuss other than to point out that lo sec is what it is because the inhabitants make it that way. Whether it's their intentions or not, THEY make lo sec what it is.

When you make a habit of crapping in your back yard eventually it's going to stink.


Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.09.26 23:16:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Orange Lagomorph
Carebears will accept only minimal risk.


We'll never know, i guess. Risk isn't even a factor in the current system, because there's zero chance of surviving a camp in anything that isn't a cov ops or fast aligning frigate, so not taking PvE ships there just makes sense.


Camps are very, very easy to avoid. First, you know where they're probably going to be ahead of time, and you can go around those choke points. Or you base past them, and just use a shuttle to get through the camped area.

Everyone acts like lowsec is just a giant deathtrap. It isn't. It really, really isn't. You just have to actually learn things, like what corps pirate, what corps are NRDS, what gates are typically camped, and how to survive common gank attempts. I figured all that out pretty quickly as a very young character. Now I've been playing a little over a year, and I prosper in lowsec. And I'm not even a very good pvp'er (yet).


I should have clarified i fly PvE Battleships, and it is suicide trying to take one of those into lowsec regularly. Even with all the scouting ahead that's humanly possible. You're going to be a dream come true for the first camp you run unto, and probably get laughed at for even attempting such a thing.

You are right when it comes to smaller PvE ships. Can push your luck pretty far in a cruiser doing missions in lowsec, and frigates are no problem at all unless you run into an instalock fleet. They're also relatively cheap, so you're not out hundreds of millions everytime you land in a camp.

It's really just that because gates and gatecamps exist people are forced to think about align times and cov ops cloaks just to avoid gatecamps, and it severely limits the amount of people who go there and the types of ships they take. Even though the easymode PvP gatecamps provide is seen as a cornerstone of EVE PvP it would honestly be the best thing for PvP overall to just remove the damned things.


I've moved many BS's into and out of lowsec, often without scouts. The trick is to use dotlan or other map to find good backdoors. Basically, avoid any direct route from a hub to your lowsec destination. Any iffy jump, dock up and pod travel back and forth to see what the system looks like on the other side.

Alternately, set a buy order for the battleship you want in lowsec, and just transport the mods in in a fast cruiser.

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.09.26 23:22:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Adyny Rieph
See, I just went to lowsec to prove my own point. I bought a Caracal, fitted it with ratting modules and off I went. I lasted 27 minutes. First system I went to was empty. Second had a few people in it so I started going belt to belt killing rats. After 27 minutes some guy in a Federation Navy Comet warped in right on top of me, scrammed and killed me. I was a T1 cruiser in T1, un-named modules. What was the point? There wasn't one. That's why lowsec is deserted, because the people who whine about it being deserted, IE, the people like that one that just killed me, made it that way.

Wink
So, you went out.. In a ship that wouldn't be able to defend itself into low sec. You found a system with people in it, if which, you didn't know the people. Now you're here telling us low sec is empty due to your own (admitted) stupidity.

You were easy meat bro. If I would have seen you, I would have killed you too.

This is EVE Online. Not WoW, not, Second Life and most certainly not Hello Kitty.

EVE.



Irae Ragwan
Posted - 2010.09.26 23:28:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2


When you make a habit of crapping in your back yard eventually it's going to stink.




Well, there are those of us who both live and pirate in lowsec, and hono(u)r our accords. We're just harder to find than before. I've pseudo-rented my system several times to passing mission bears (or exporer types whom i scanned down) and even helped a few rookie corps hide out while under wardec from highsec griefers. You have to keep in mind aswell, there's a fair amount of risk on the end of the lowsec denizen. Any time I let obstensibly harmless carebears on my turf without keeping a close eye on things, I run the risk of being trojan-horse'd by nullbears in supercaps.

Lowsec's population is so ravenous and blood-thirsty (on the whole) because it's wedged between two comaprably wealthy and vibrant areas of space. Empire has a vast array of sub-cap ships and goods we have no access to outside of alts and rather tricky logistics (Jump Freight is a colossal pain in the ass when your neighbors get wind of it and transport ships just aren't efficient enough). Nullsec has nearly unlimited resources and production of the caps we want to maintain our territory. So, lowsec residents are consumers from all sides and really have nothing to produce unless you happen to live in a system with a rich moon (that doesn't last long unless you have supercaps yourself) or a L5 agent that you can effectively pimp to pve'ers.

Between the jostle of passing FW fleets, trying to control systems on and near decent agents, and pillaging wormholes: i've been able to scatch out a living with my small corp and even field a few caps and sc's at one point. That said, our long-term prospects are never more than a gamble. We live and die on both staying on the radar of interested highsec figures and under the radar of nullsec players who could destroy our fortunes over-night.

Not sure what my point is now for all the rambling, but sufficed to say I have to agree that lowsec needs some re-tuning for the benefit of both parties.

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.09.26 23:35:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
I've moved many BS's into and out of lowsec, often without scouts. The trick is to use dotlan or other map to find good backdoors. Basically, avoid any direct route from a hub to your lowsec destination. Any iffy jump, dock up and pod travel back and forth to see what the system looks like on the other side.

Alternately, set a buy order for the battleship you want in lowsec, and just transport the mods in in a fast cruiser.


And i've taken BS's all the way deep into 0.0 and back to hisec many times. The problem is with missions you'll find yourself going back and forth through the same gates for hours a day, over the course of weeks or even months. You're a much easier target than someone just visiting the area or passing through. The locals are going to take note of you everytime they see you around after the first kill, and just sit on a gate and wait.

And i'm sure you'll come up with another complicated way to increase chances of avoiding that, but it's all just work for the mission runners, while gatecamping remains easy and low risk.


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