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Aramis Defranzac
Posted - 2010.09.28 19:53:00 - [181]
 

If I missed this I apologize but does this mean that if the event takes place in High Sec then there will not be a Mothership Spawn and the reward is less than in low sec or 0.0?

I'm hoping this feature is a true to the PVE players where this content shouldn't just be a focus on what else those in 0.0 can do and receive, but also for those who like the security of high sec and want to see more content :).

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.09.28 20:38:00 - [182]
 

Originally by: Aramis Defranzac
I'm hoping this feature is a true to the PVE players where this content shouldn't just be a focus on what else those in 0.0 can do and receive, but also for those who like the security of high sec and want to see more content :).


It would be disappointing -- and imho out of character for New Eden -- if the juiciest rewards of an invasion were plopped down right where there is the least risk to acquire them.


sythra coratana
Posted - 2010.09.29 00:11:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Originally by: Che Biko
Edited by: Che Biko on 24/09/2010 19:24:43
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
There are no mechanics to take sides in currently, [..]

QuestionCan't we at least have something like NPC ships attacking Nation space in 0.0, or NPC ships attacking nation complexes and base spawns in empire, or even NPC ships fighting the Sansha ships in the same event? Players on both sides try to eliminate the other side's NPC's, or something like that?
It's not a perfect solution, but something like that would be relatively easy to implement in the meantime I guess?

It's seems a bit unfair to not be able to enjoy the purpose of this (player teaming up vs NPC) if you happen to support the Nation team.


What Soundwave means there is that there's no "opt-in" mechanics for "sides" to choose, such as you get in Faction Warfare. It's still possible, despite this, for Sansha sympathisers (or local pirates, etc) to run interference. Right now though, the extent to which they can is limited in scope. If there's the time to, we'll try and broaden that.


I seriously hope that you do, while you can make an AI tactically challenging in EvE there's no way the current system becomes the kind of strategic challenge that opposition players are, you're making what was a good story system (the challenge of trying to solve the puzzle behind nation's incurions) into more mindless and vastly unopposed PVE.

give the sympathysers a way to fight for their side just as you're giving us a way to fight for ours, the conflict is no fun without a powerful opposition.

hell hold off the expansion if you need the time to get it done but the sympths have put just as much into the events as anyone else. for this to work it needs to be interesting and challenging the best way you're going to achieve that is by involving as many player elements as you can, grinding AI alone will not cut it imo.



Lynn Deniera
Caldari
The Foreign Legion
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.09.29 03:49:00 - [184]
 

Soundwave I didnt realise you were in the NC. BFF <3

Vaneshi SnowCrash
Posted - 2010.09.29 16:09:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Jagga Spikes
quote: "...Think of it as a moving circus where you have to shoot the clowns."

that's just epic. :) tho, i'd really like to see an option to play as clown. just for principle of choice, if anything.


I actually have a Nightmare or two parked somewhere now you mention it.... my crew of True Slaves stand ready to assist the Nation \o/

Shame we won't be able to do that... for the time being.

Camios
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.09.29 18:21:00 - [186]
 

Hmmm... Do these incursion will take place into conquerable space? If yes, this may turn into a free gift for the space owner.


Sansha should at least try to place SBUs and shoot Ihubs, outposts and TCUs (lol).

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2010.09.29 19:58:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Camios

Sansha should at least try to place SBUs and shoot Ihubs, outposts and TCUs (lol).


This would be cool.

More NPC behaviors like this, in general, would be very cool. Rather than just sitting in belts.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2010.09.30 01:14:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: Aramis Defranzac
I'm hoping this feature is a true to the PVE players where this content shouldn't just be a focus on what else those in 0.0 can do and receive, but also for those who like the security of high sec and want to see more content :).


It would be disappointing -- and imho out of character for New Eden -- if the juiciest rewards of an invasion were plopped down right where there is the least risk to acquire them.




IIRC you cant blob PvE with supercaps in hisec.

corebloodbrothers
Posted - 2010.09.30 13:38:00 - [189]
 

history shows a painfull link with BOB, but i have too say:

shooting clowns and best frends forever...

i knew CCP would get it right eventually

bff!

corebloodbrothers
Posted - 2010.09.30 14:22:00 - [190]
 

on a more serieus note,
i am curious about the reward system. ATM i often find tags, where as a tag from 1 race or bad guy can be worth 10 mill a pop, and the other of the same rank of another race is worth 0 isk. This unbalance doesnt help making things balanced.

idea:
Put a reward system in place that gives equal value to (example) a sansha crystal tag and a serpentis crystal tag. Make them exchangable for LP point, items or isk, based on their droprate which is tied too rank atm.

Same would aply to other tags liek faction tags and officer tags. cash them in for LP or anything with loyalty and a equal reward over the different races and factions we all love in eve. Therefor giving PVE over races the same attraction in rewards.

the amount of PVE would then be tied too LP store item prices on markets/contracts, but u coudl even make LP return dynamic based on drop rate value.

am i crazy or not ?

is this a silly idea or not ?

Kara Balveda
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2010.09.30 14:59:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: corebloodbrothers
on a more serieus note,
i am curious about the reward system. ATM i often find tags, where as a tag from 1 race or bad guy can be worth 10 mill a pop, and the other of the same rank of another race is worth 0 isk. This unbalance doesnt help making things balanced.

Same would aply to other tags liek faction tags and officer tags. cash them in for LP or anything with loyalty and a equal reward over the different races and factions we all love in eve. Therefor giving PVE over races the same attraction in rewards.


As the tags are already needed to get certain rewards in the LP store, I don't really see what you want CCP to do. It's up to the free market to set prices for the tags. If some tags are looked for more than others because people are after the rewards of a certain faction, then this is just as good a reason as any why you should get more ISK for certain tags.

I am not here for more than a few days, but so far I found the economy to be quite good at that. Even if I sometimes swear that all my salvaging only brought me more Contaminated Lorentz Fluid or any other crap nobody really needs. After all, it's up to me if I sell for that price.

Spellmyname
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:02:00 - [192]
 

promises but but but but its marketing that's all, i pay to be disappointed trust me with the little faith that i do have in ccp i continue to pay, i mean play the gms do go out of their way to disappoint, but maybe i want to much out of them for what i pay for

but with these new promises for the pve upgrade we MIGHT get bonus stuff.. i truly hope that this new pvp stuff governed in high security section space concord is still playing their role as the police.. Protecting us from pirates, cause i want my uber faction fitted faction ship to pawn the npcs with out have to worry about getting ganked by some pirate outlaw corp or alliance gang. please don't disappoint like your petition system disappoints me. ps. i love PVE in Eveonline

DUKE BILKO
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:21:00 - [193]
 

i think that if pve is gonna have uber stuff it better be available both in hi sec and in null, low sec. awesome like concord gear Jove gear. for null sec and low sec its not safe for pirates to hide anymore npc bounty hunters come looking for you -9.7 sec status players
uber items like omni active armor hardeners omni damage crystals or boosters that boost your training speed or neutralizing drones even better.. an amarr ship with 8/8/8 fitting slots upgraded cpu and power-grid like super ships... ships that match the present time, not those ancient warhorses newer technology.

Spellmyname
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:23:00 - [194]
 

Edited by: Spellmyname on 30/09/2010 15:35:23
Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: Aramis Defranzac
I'm hoping this feature is a true to the PVE players where this content shouldn't just be a focus on what else those in 0.0 can do and receive, but also for those who like the security of high sec and want to see more content :).


It would be disappointing -- and imho out of character for New Eden -- if the juiciest rewards of an invasion were plopped down right where there is the least risk to acquire them.


dude chill its a programmable program plenty of invasions to go around besides the npcs no matter where they are risky to engage so i am sure they will invade in lowsec, highsec and nullsec. the biggest rewards for highsec because its against the law to attack non-corpmates in lowsec you can fight like dogs for it and in null you can kill each other because you are lowlife scumbag pirates and you choose to dwell therein and pirates deserve to die in hell.

DUKE BILKO
Posted - 2010.09.30 15:26:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: Aramis Defranzac
If I missed this I apologize but does this mean that if the event takes place in High Sec then there will not be a Mothership Spawn and the reward is less than in low sec or 0.0?

I'm hoping this feature is a true to the PVE players where this content shouldn't just be a focus on what else those in 0.0 can do and receive, but also for those who like the security of high sec and want to see more content :).
i think it should be equal opportunities everywhere and for everyone to get this great event simultaneously. the risk is the mother ship can kill you imho.. smh

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.09.30 22:40:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: Aramis Defranzac
I'm hoping this feature is a true to the PVE players where this content shouldn't just be a focus on what else those in 0.0 can do and receive, but also for those who like the security of high sec and want to see more content :).


It would be disappointing -- and imho out of character for New Eden -- if the juiciest rewards of an invasion were plopped down right where there is the least risk to acquire them.




IIRC you cant blob PvE with supercaps in hisec.



I meant risk from other players, not from the NPCs themselves.


corebloodbrothers
Posted - 2010.10.01 07:41:00 - [197]
 

with the value and purpose of tags earlier i disagree its balanced. a crsytal tag of one race has much less value then another. The differences are huge, leaving 0.0 areas as considerabel less value for rattings, as soem gold tags make 10 million, when another race/faction gold tag is useless.

therefor it woudl be better to let them have a general LP value, so a serpentis bronz tag has xxx LP, same as any other bronze tag from bandits. and for example a faction tag has 10 times the LP value of the regular tag. and so on.

this would spread out ratters and people and equal rewards, also decrease the habbit of doing certain races or missions because of that higher value. So u owuld do more different missions, making it more fun.


HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.01 11:27:00 - [198]
 

looks interesting anothe good idea for moving peeps around. Random wormholes should also allow peeps to get into the regions into question wit ha bit of effort

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2010.10.01 13:27:00 - [199]
 

Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 01/10/2010 13:29:39
Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: Aramis Defranzac
I'm hoping this feature is a true to the PVE players where this content shouldn't just be a focus on what else those in 0.0 can do and receive, but also for those who like the security of high sec and want to see more content :).


It would be disappointing -- and imho out of character for New Eden -- if the juiciest rewards of an invasion were plopped down right where there is the least risk to acquire them.




IIRC you cant blob PvE with supercaps in hisec.



I meant risk from other players, not from the NPCs themselves.




My point still stands then (tho to a bit lesser degree). In one place you have harder engagements (max size = BS) in other place you have easy mode (supercaps) but you risk some combat (lol risk... if it happens in deep north or deep south it will be farmed by one alliance only). It balances itself i guess.

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.10.01 13:44:00 - [200]
 

"What's happening in Winter 2010?". After yesterday's debacle, I suspect that Winter 2010 will be CCP's winter of discontent.

Luminak Narz
Posted - 2010.10.01 18:31:00 - [201]
 

Edited by: Luminak Narz on 01/10/2010 18:58:15
Originally by: Mynxee


It's a suggestion that CSM made at the June Summit when Soundwave discussed this feature with us and mentioned it was still in the "drawing board" stage. Too bad it didn't get slotted in. I would very much like to see a way for sympathizers to support the Sansha...it would make the encounters a lot more unpredictable for everyone--but especially the players who choose to oppose the invasion.


But then it ceases to be a PvE feature, no? Unless you can still get Concorded for shooting other players in high sec space if you are on the Sansha side. However, my bet is that those of you hardcore PvP'ers want amnesty for shooting other players in highsec if you join the Sansha. That can't happen. You'll presumably already gain access to carebears chasing the Sansha into low sec; but high sec mechanics can't change.

If the mechanics stay as is, then be my guest in joining the Sansha.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.05 10:09:00 - [202]
 

so it will be put in then abandoned in future expansions right ? and like epic pirate arcs half done half baked and left to rot. Keep em comin ccp

Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.10.05 18:27:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: Naomi Wildfire
Quote:
Think of it as a moving circus where you have to shoot the clowns. Stupid clowns. You will be able to find them in all areas of space, high sec, low sec and zero sec, with the appropriate reward multipliers depending on where it is of course.


IT alliance is going on a long time journey?


Naomi, you know they've already done that twice. While we had fun its apparent you can deplete the respawn rate.

What I'm more concerned with is CCP stealing our BFF motif, right down to the stupid enemy clowns part.

Content: I suggest a new mission from survellience agents which allows you to find a group of hostiles and call in a Rat swarm on them. Its a good way to allow players to interact with PVE content like what is proposed.

Saul Elsyn
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE
Posted - 2010.10.05 18:49:00 - [204]
 

Edited by: Saul Elsyn on 05/10/2010 19:05:23
Still... unless NPCs get a major buff overall this could be really boring.

I mean the biggest meanest (non named pilot) Sansha battleship only does 154 DPS...

If NPC ships actually fought like real PvP ships it'd be interesting... Sure they should perform worse then us, but not that much worse then us...

EDIT: After rereading the blog I noticed mention that this event would have it's own separate line of NPCs with specialized roles and the sleeper AI... Good, I still hope their damage output is higher then the current lot.

Some suggestions... Randomize the NPC spawn compositions, fighting the same spawn every time only lets players tailor their tactics to the spawn. This should be looked at for mission running as well.

Buff NPCs across the board I say... make level 4s require team play and make these events something comparable to fighting in a big battle like we've seen in like... the Quantum Rise trailer?

Chemical Property
Posted - 2010.10.07 08:39:00 - [205]
 

Edited by: Chemical Property on 07/10/2010 08:39:54
So no more tech 2 or tech 3 shippies? Sad

corebloodbrothers
Posted - 2010.10.07 10:17:00 - [206]
 

i liek the big picture, but try to throw in some " goodies" that satisfy alot of people.

for myself:

1. save fittings for Allaince, on top of the individual and corp ones. that woudl benefit big allainces big time
2. introduce a new skill: remot reprocessing, u can reprocess items remotely, increasing 5 jumps per level, like remoet trade skills. It owudl decrease stacks peopel have lyign aorudn but cnat be arsed to get, cause minerals sell better in general.
3. give tags a better and more consistent value so that a sansha gold tag has same value as lets say a serpentis gold tag. Coudl be solved by making them exchangable for fixed amoutn of LP points per sort tag. (and then make faction and officertags also have a cooresponding value)

seems to me small stuff, satisfyign alot of people, on top of the mentioned big ccp plan.

silly or not ?

davet517
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.10.08 02:24:00 - [207]
 

This looks like something analogous to "raiding" in other MMOs. Could be cool, as long as you construct it with the realities of Eve in mind.

As we saw on Test this morning, this content will be trivial if players are simply allowed to zerg it (zerg: using massive numbers as a substitute for skill and tactics). Eve doesn't need any more trivial PvE grinds. There are enough already.

On the contrary, this content should be hard. Really hard. So hard in fact that you wipe entire fleets multiple times before you figure out how to beat it, and the strategies for beating an encounter should be closely guarded secrets for those who know how. If you did this right, Eve would have something that other MMOs don't when it comes to this kind of content, i.e. having to balance risk with chance of success. An encounter that's barely beatable with T2 fit BS might be easier in faction fit Marauders, but still easily fail-able by unskilled pilots. So, you have to balance your chance of success against what you're willing to lose if you fail.

I don't see how you do the above without some kind of cap on ship types and numbers. If you leave it wide open, overkill will be the rule.

If you make it really hard, the rewards should be really awesome, as it is in other MMOs where “raid loot” >>>> “group and solo loot”. It makes sense, because of the collective player hours that it takes to beat truly hard to beat PvE content. If the rewards don't far out-strip what can be had grinding anoms or missions, nobody is going to care about this content.

If you make it possible to grab off the phat lootz at he end of the rainbow by sending in a super-cap blob to lock down the final encounter, people will, at least until the peons get wise and stop doing the grinding just to be shut out at the end.

If you make it possible to farm this for real-world cash, and the real-world cash rewards are good enough, the RMT patrol will be all over it (see “super-cap blob” above) and nobody else will get near it.

Eve has a (well deserved, IMO) reputation for having the absolute worst PvE content of any successful MMO. If you do this right, you might change that. If you do it wrong your shiney new feature will just be added to the collection of mindless isk grinds that already exist in the game, and your time and effort would have been far better spent enhancing the sov system, or the factional warfare system that you've neglected since it was released, or some other aspect of the game that people actually care about.

Saul Elsyn
INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE
Posted - 2010.10.08 03:02:00 - [208]
 

I've got to agree with the previous poster. This needs to be harder... much harder. We're talking about an invasion by a major power here, and I'm not talking about the number of ships either.

Here's some simple ideas... simulate PvP behavior in the NPCS. RR primaried ships, if there's a Sansha mothership involved throw in a couple Sansha carriers and dreads in the sites, have the carriers RR the battleships as their targeted and for the love of all that's holy randomize the spawns.

One of the reasons PvE in EVE is so boring is that the spawns are identical for each particular mission, and that there are multiple waves of enemies. In most cases the only reason a mission runner looses a ship is if they screw up and shoot a spawn trigger and suddenly there's a ton of NPCs. To be blunt, spawns should be on a timer if they exist and please don't just have them appear. I'd liked to see em warp onto the grid.

I was in today's mass test of this feature, and I got to say there were a couple moments where I was going yes... that's how to do it. Like when I saw Sansha battleships closing to point blank range before being blown to away. But afterward I felt a bit cheated. Yes the NPCs are better then the old ones, yes they hit harder. At the same time they're easily rushed by large formations. Perhaps the number of gate activations should trigger additional spawns, like reinforcements being rushed to the scene when 30 or 40 capsuleers show up. Since the rewards are based on objective completion... having escalating Sansha reinforcements show up relative to the PCs that use the gate wouldn't affect the value of the missions but would encourage players to avoid the... Blob tactic. Cause they're NPCs... they can out blob us in a pinch.

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2010.10.11 06:20:00 - [209]
 

More people are on the field more likely one will "grab the can" in an "overwhelmed civilian" event and trigger the next spawn early.

But a more direct cause and effect might be desirable.

Glane Sardar
Posted - 2010.11.19 17:52:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: Efraya
Time to download that 3gb~ update for sisi again :S


Just make a copy of the current eve folder, delete the sisi one and rename the copy to what you called sisi, the shortcut with the following is the keyShocked

"C:\CCP\EVE Test Server\eve.exe" /server:87.237.38.50


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