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blankseplocked [proposal] No trading Plex's for Neural Remaps - CCP's decision inside
 
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LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2010.11.09 09:13:00 - [1081]
 

Originally by: Amarantha Morgana
supported, please no microtransactions.


Supported or not, its pointless now as its already been decided. Neutral

As they say, its all over but for the crying. I guess we can't win em all, carry on.

Tather Demaleon
Posted - 2010.11.11 05:23:00 - [1082]
 

Originally by: Machete Visor
We already have microtransactions.

Pay $35 for 2 plex, sell plex, buy nifty battleship.

So I think you guys should be more precise in your protest.

I hear two things(my interpretation), which are the following:

1) High SP characters should remain unique. In other words, you shouldn't be able to buy SP, or train SP faster (remaps) by using ISK or $$. This preserves the uniqueness of high SP characters and makes them more rare. I agree w/ this.

2) Plex should be the sole link between $$ and ISK, and the price should remain high. No one wants "You must pay $1 to fight in system XUY-023" or "To buy that skillbook, you need $2." By keeping plex relatively expensive, it prevents this type of thinking (even though economically it is still part of the game). That helps roleplaying. Also decreases the hassle factor.

FWIW - SP are currently purchaseable via the character bazaar. So it is inaccurate to say "No $$ for SP." The supply of characters, however, is very constrained, and the transfer fee sets a floor on the types of characters that are tradeable.

If the transfer fee is removed, we could very easily see a character bazaar filled with all types of characters trained in just 1 skill... in that way you could buy skills. But as is - at $20 or 725M ISK - it is too expensive to have trade such characters. That menas it is only practical to buy characters are the upper levels of the game or with significant $$ investment (2B ISK = $35 x 3 = $105)

I think the discussion would be much better with more succint points.

1) Keep SP purchasing rare.
2) Maintain the $$ to ISK exchange rate at $35 minimum (regardless of ISK value).



When you trade a plex you are trading "30 days game time" and swapping for isk.
This isk isn't generated from no-where, same as buying a character - someone has spent the time to train it.

Swapping a plex for services can be ingame cost to out of game benefit, and out of game cost to out of game benefit, but it doesn't effect ingame.

Being able to purchase ingame items soley from rl money opens up the out of game cost to ingame benefit which is where things get dodgey. If these microtransactions use plex then its pretty much the same thing that happens now as long as these items are destroyable and/or vanity only, if they use another currency to make sure that the plex market isn't unduly effected then this leads to the darkside.

I haven't yet seen CCP mention if these microtransactions would use plex or not, although its probably a sure thing, but i hope to gods if they do turn to the dark side that its paved with plex and not cash.

The biggest problem other than that is that ccp says this is only a test.

<cough>

sure it is.

Didn't you just get a massive million dollar cash injection from your shareholders/ investers???
Is this the reason for the double dipping?

hmm.

wtf CCP.

Atius Tirawa
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.11 08:19:00 - [1083]
 

Edited by: Atius Tirawa on 11/11/2010 08:35:27
Originally by: Tather Demaleon


When you trade a plex you are trading "30 days game time" and swapping for isk.
This isk isn't generated from no-where, same as buying a character - someone has spent the time to train it.

Swapping a plex for services can be ingame cost to out of game benefit, and out of game cost to out of game benefit, but it doesn't effect ingame.


You are right, the isk is not generated from nowhere, it is generated from RL-money. Instead of using that isk to buy things in the ingame economy and keeping the economic system closed to the outside world, every economic transaction ingame now does not have a solely internal economic mechanism to explain it but can be influenced by th real economey outside. In effect, all the economic analysis in eve is completly broken because of this (spacific data is usable, but is also corrupt). It would be the same if we tried to measure todays economy but also include some kind of religious metaphysical currency into the mix - i.e. the reason you are rich is because god loves you and rewards you with money. So love is now a second curency, and invisible currency that can be used to get real money.

With Character transfers, the problem is different because charactrs are a product of the game - klike ships or mods. The end remains the same though, real life money is converted into isk and spent ingame to purchase ships, mods and/or more characters. characters in this case is just a product.

basically, with the way PLEX works right now, eve is not a sandbox, and the addition of more ways to use PLEX will continue to degrade that to the point it becomes a mere marketing scheme. Should the PLEX market be taken out and characer bazzar terminated, then the game will return to being a true sandbox again (it was once).

The debate on what is and what is not spacifically a MT is academic, the effect it has in the game is very much evident in the requests people make in th suggestions forums and the culture that has emerged in the past year of people taking for granted the isk to dollar ratio and profiting ingame off of it. i cannot see the difference between RMT and PLEX other then who makes the money, and how accountable and controled that process is - but the end result is the same. Money buys isk.

Ryan Starwing
Gallente
Cryptonym Sleepers
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.11.12 11:47:00 - [1084]
 

Edited by: Ryan Starwing on 12/11/2010 11:50:15
Whats next Plex for sp, and next how about remove the gametime you get from it and instead make it needed to fly anything bigger then a t1 cruiser on top of the subscription. How about after that being able to buy a special ship for alot of plexs that not even concord can stop and the only way to kill it would be by paying plexs to get the counter ship that is only good against it.

You kind of see my point this wont go anywere good (I dont mind plex for game time and I also pay for my game by buying plex off the market). Also plex for neural remaps does not make sence plex=pilots licenes extension (or something like that).

Lusulpher
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.12 12:02:00 - [1085]
 

At least the macros can PLEX remap into Hulks and Orcas using their RMT money...


Seriously? Seriously...I am disappoint.Crying or Very sad

0SpaceRaider0
Posted - 2010.11.15 09:53:00 - [1086]
 

NO MICROPAYMENT! NO PLEX FOR ANYTHING! Evil or Very Mad

Khalia Nestune
Mad Stacks
Posted - 2010.11.15 20:23:00 - [1087]
 

NO.

Not T'amber
Posted - 2010.11.22 21:05:00 - [1088]
 


WIN!!!!

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO VOTED AND POSTED THEIR COMMENTS!!!
PLEX FOR NEURAL REMAP HAS BEEN SHELVED!!
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=815




ColdBeauty
Posted - 2010.11.22 21:33:00 - [1089]
 

Originally by: Not T'amber

WIN!!!!

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO VOTED AND POSTED THEIR COMMENTS!!!
PLEX FOR NEURAL REMAP HAS BEEN SHELVED!!
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=815







easily first \o/

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2010.11.22 23:04:00 - [1090]
 

Congratulations to everyone on letting your paranoia stall out the plans for ALL neural remaps. You've managed to accomplished exactly what the OP expressly said he didn't want this thread to do.

This isn't a victory, it's scorched earth as CCP didn't just shelf their plans for PLEX for remap but ALL neural changes they were working on.

Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.11.23 06:48:00 - [1091]
 

Edited by: Portmanteau on 23/11/2010 07:03:24
We can't ENTIRELY control what CCP decide, merely inluence if we are lucky. As it stood, CCP were about to introduce plex for remaps, something that a vast majority of posters were vehemently against. It seems CCP's reaction to this is to forget changing remaps at all, we can't help that, but given a choice between plex for remaps or none at all, i take none at all.

Are you suggesting that if slightly less ppl reacted slightly less strongly CCP may have kept the "other" ideas for remaps ? How on earth would we control that ? Are you suggesting that perhaps we should not have reacted at all ? Then we would have plex for remaps, exactly what the majority here did not want.

Ultimately, CCP suggested they were about to implement something and that something got a reaction, a very vocal reaction yes, but an honest one. Really, tell me what you expected us to do when we were so completely oposed to the idea

Frozen T'amber
Posted - 2010.11.23 08:22:00 - [1092]
 

Originally by: LordElfa
Congratulations to everyone on letting your paranoia stall out the plans for ALL neural remaps. You've managed to accomplished exactly what the OP expressly said he didn't want this thread to do.

This isn't a victory, it's scorched earth as CCP didn't just shelf their plans for PLEX for remap but ALL neural changes they were working on.


Yes aswell them reconfirming vanity MTs this is the other negative to this announcement. It also worries me as why would they completely removed this option if not to reintroduce it later when people are ok with MTs? While I do not think we should have unlimited NMs I do not see why they couldn't be gained through another mechanism, like the LP store.

Zevran Arainai
Free Space Tech
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.11.23 08:51:00 - [1093]
 

Originally by: Not T'amber

WIN!!!!

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO VOTED AND POSTED THEIR COMMENTS!!!
PLEX FOR NEURAL REMAP HAS BEEN SHELVED!!
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=815





Well done,CCP.I love you Razz

James Marlow
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.11.23 21:57:00 - [1094]
 

Hear, hear!

AFK Hauler
Posted - 2010.11.24 05:48:00 - [1095]
 

I say vote NO to this.



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