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blankseplocked discussion by members of eve about opening highsec to capital ships
 
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Capt Gunslinger1
Posted - 2010.09.18 17:00:00 - [1]
 

This may have been brought up before but with 50,000 plus threads I couldnít find anything. The topic of this is simple, Improving functionality in high sec. I have been in this game for years and one things has been made very clear; this game is geared for veteran players. That being said making more null sec and low sec functionality In high sec I feel would make this game more enjoyable for the new players and the players that donít want to get popped every time they cross a low sec gate.

This is what I propose CCP introduce.

Allow all ships in all space: some limitation would have to be implemented to protect new players but preventing dreds and tituns in high sec does not allow new players to see what is possible if they stick with the game. As of now I have never seen one of these ships and that includes the time I have spent in null sec (which is not a lot but that is not the point). The limitations I thought would be appropriate would be that all capital ships that enters high sec would have to have their weapons put in off line status. In the event that they were left on Concord would give them a time limit (a very short one) to deactivate them before attacking and destroying the offending ship. If the ship jumped in using a jump bridge and fired immediately then it would draw a immediate response from concord. Concord would need to have the ability to summon whatever fleet size needed to deal with the threat. In addition concord would have the ability to active a beacon of sorts that would neutralize the weapons on of all capital ships and larger in the solar system. So for example if a large alliance comes in with derds and a few tituns then concord would dispatch a fleet large enough and with the proper ships to neutralize the threat and not have to deal with them fighting back. This would also hold true for PVE with those ship types. You want fight take to null sec! I used this; Back in the late 1800s you could bring your hand gun in the village of Tombstone in the American wild west. You just needed to hand it over to the sheriff, If you didnít the sheriff dealt with you accordingly.
POS, Manufacturing and Moon mining: The fact that some POS functions can only be done in low sec and null sec is the same as the issue I have with capital ships in high sec. Opening these functions up to high sec would allow small corps and members that quite frankly donít want to operate in low and null sec space the ability to utilize full functionality of the game. Again if limitations need to be enacted to control large alliances currently in null sec from running amuck in high sec then so be it. An easy fix would be that if you are a member of an alliance and if any member of that alliance has any low or null sec then all member corps would have to follow current high sec rules. But if you are a small independent industrial corp. want to make capital ships to sell to null sec alliances then you would be able to. You could also limit the number of moons that a high sec corp. could mine to limit the probability that two high sec corps would go to war over real estate or just allow more than one POS per moon in high sec.

The idea behind this whole thread is to foster discussion about making all space in New Eden open to all. I had a discussion with several friends I have made on eve and the conversation was intense and constructive. There were a lot of good ideas and some I didnít like but they were legitimate none the less. Every eve promotional YouTube video kind of says the same thing with your actions ripple through the fabric of New Eden. Opening up high sec will not detract from the epic battles in nulls sec, I believe that it would allow our high sec members to be a part of them in a small way. I would love to hear from all of you and if this thread is hit enough then maybe CCP will take notice and make some if not all the changes.

Please leave feed back and let us know if you are for it or against it.

LTcyberT1000
Caldari
Free Space Tech
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.09.18 17:11:00 - [2]
 

The idea would be possible by disabling capitals high/medium/low slots and drone bays while they are in 0.5+ security systems so capitals and supercapitals could trespass highsec without doing any damage..

Traperjohn
Posted - 2010.09.18 17:32:00 - [3]
 

I agree 100% with opening up High Sec to the Larger Ships. I am not a fan of PvP or low sec in general, and will never be able to see them otherwise. But to have the Capacity to Build, Pilot, and Interact with these Ships would greatly enhance everyone's playing experoence. I know I have stayed in High Sec my Entire Eve Career with the exception of a Random WH op or two, but the Battleships, Orcas and Hulks have influenced my Decisions as to wah tto train for.

I agree with restrictions placed carefully upon expanded POS functions, and also to limit aggressive interactions with Capitol Ships. In this Manner it can open the game up to the Casual Players who do not wish to risk it all in low and null sec, yet can still play a role in the Future of New Eden.

Thank you Gunslinger for starting this thread

Etriana Morgan
Danneskjold Repossessions
Posted - 2010.09.18 17:39:00 - [4]
 

This would make logistics way to simple in my opinion.

We already have jump freighters that can move your stuff directly out of high sec. This would add the ability to jump back directly into high sec and pickup rigged ships with carriers and such. It doesn't need to be that simple to move stuff.
Also it would change the jump routes alot.

For supercapitals the ability to park them safly anywhere in high sec is a massive change I think that just makes owning one much less intensive and not really balanced...

Monte Shill
Posted - 2010.09.18 17:47:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Capt Gunslinger1
Opening these functions up to high sec would allow small corps and members that quite frankly donít want to operate in low and null sec space

Risk vs Reward, which is what EVE is all about. If you are not willing to risk the dangers of low/null, you do not deserve to reap the rewards of it. You can already claim sov in a system in null and rake in billions, which then get taxed by the alliance, which goes towards the funding of capitals, which is used to expand their empire. If your content to sit in highsec farming asteroids and level 4 missions for taxes, then you cannot possibly have any use nor will you be able to produce capitals in significant numbers without having your POS shot up on a daily basis because your enemy had easy access to get to it (which claiming sov, onlining cyno jammers, and intel channel help to eliminate intruders).

True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
Posted - 2010.09.18 17:52:00 - [6]
 

If your main justification for this is so that players can take a look at them, then I'd suggest that there be more NPC versions of these placed around the empire regions, and some more hostile ones added to missions.

It would make sense that the Gallente Capital system have a standing cap-fleet in there,

Capt Gunslinger1
Posted - 2010.09.18 19:09:00 - [7]
 

I have heard that phrase risk and reward before, remember that if you wanted to use the capital ships you would have to go to null sec. As for the profitability of a corp., is that not defined by the corp. themselves. By no means would a large mega corp. think the one I am in is profitable but we as a group donít think we are doing too bad. As for logistics, I have been chased into high sec from low sec before. If I was in a fleet of capital ships and the battle was not going well and the POS I was held up in got popped. Then retreating to high sec could be an option. I ask why not?? If a person thinks that high sec is any safer then you are at war then you have been in null sec to long.

I propose a scenario: your alliance is at war with another, you run to high sec after getting your ass handed to you and you find a quite moon in Jita to park it. The intel channel starts to chatter that a capital ship just jumped in and a fleet of T2 battle ships is sent to intercept. I find it hard to believe that a good sized group of battleships and command ships could not destroy a capital ship what was not able to fight back.

This is my point by all this, you still maintain the whole reason for null sec. you are just allowing for greater mobility and new players to have a greater chance to see it all happen from the safety of high sec.

As for jump routes, I donít know enough about it to know any different or whether the route are static or dynamic. My understanding was that you could create a jump bridge from any location as long as you had a ship at the other end to open a portal there.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2010.09.18 21:11:00 - [8]
 

I can't support this.

Biggest reason for me is that low-sec is currently being used to "safe-up" super carriers, titans, and capital assets in general. If capitals were to be allowed into high-sec it would be the same thing, only worse because there there would be no "reasonable" way to extract said ships from "deathstar" style POSs (with the exception of bribery and the POS password).

Other reasons for my lack of support include, but are not limited to:

- Risk vs. Reward: if you're not willing to risk your ISK on a major asset/force multiplier, with all of its benefits and limitations, then you shouldn't be flying it.
- Even with your proposed "limitations" on capital ships, people will still find ways to use them offensively (ex. carrier or dred being a neutral RR for a bunch of war targets in high-sec... try getting THAT off the field).
- It would only exacerbate, not relieve, the negative feelings that newbies get when they see a vet flying a HUGE ship that they cannot counter using their dozen or so T1 cruisers.
- "Because of pretty" has never been a good excuse to alter major game mechanics. You want to see big ships, get in your cov-ops ship and start poking around low and null sec. You're bound to find a capital sooner or later (hell, just ask a pirate to humor you and he/she might oblige for giggles).

Capt Gunslinger1
Posted - 2010.09.19 01:38:00 - [9]
 

Thanks for the feed back, these are the things i like to hear. even though you are against it, What you say makes since, Thanks

mchief117
Posted - 2010.09.19 01:44:00 - [10]
 

I personally welcome the idea of capitals in high sec , why....... because the tears that there piolets make when they get concorded will be that sweet. i believe the only reason they got moved out is because of the damage a titan could do in system like jita with there ould DD, know that its a single target who cares. if i recalled there is still a dread in highsec that has been nicknamed the veldnaught cause its piolet only using it to mine. that said some corporations could buy capital protection, it being some sort of war crime to use a capital against a protected corp in high sec hence concord will show up.

Lemmy Kravitz
Minmatar
Rebirth.
Posted - 2010.09.19 02:01:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: LTcyberT1000
The idea would be possible by disabling capitals high/medium/low slots and drone bays while they are in 0.5+ security systems so capitals and supercapitals could trespass highsec without doing any damage..



I like your idea, they can move caps around in highsec, but if they are in a wardec they are high isk paperweights for WT's to pop.

Capt Gunslinger1
Posted - 2010.09.20 01:32:00 - [12]
 

Good thoughts, please keep them coming, i want everyones thoughts here

Slade Hoo
Amarr
Retired Gunslingers
Posted - 2010.09.20 01:57:00 - [13]
 

wall of text; didn't read.

Nathvas
Posted - 2010.09.20 05:30:00 - [14]
 

Yes, Capitals should be allowed back into Highsec. Concord can more then handle them right now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYXYn9yKvZI

Concord ripped threw that fregither's armor which is about 10k and 100k strucutre in about one volley. Tanking concord isn't a option.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCsbhKoDJ8U&feature=related
In this vid, you see a guy on the sisi servor tested to see how long a carrier would last against Concord. Carrier lasted a total of 5-10 seconds. And not only that. Concord had neuted the Archon carrier in seconds, and jammed it, so we don't have to worry about people using the carrier's infamous spider tank to get around concord.

Traperjohn
Posted - 2010.09.26 13:54:00 - [15]
 

If I understand this correctly, Risk vs Reward is not a set thing, but is Malleable. Having a Neutered (If we go with suggestions to ensure weapon power would not be an issue)Capitol Ship in High Sec would not increase the risk to anyone really. The Capitol Ship would still be protected by Concord from a Fleet of High Sec capable ships, and the High Sec capable ship would be protected from the Capitol Ship. So, the Risk Value would remain relatively the Same.

The Rewards for having a Capitol Ship in High Sec may not tip the scales of Balance. The main rewards would be Safety, and Bragging Rights. I do not make Millions of ISKies a day, but I DO Enjoy playing in High Sec, and I get by pretty well. My risk is Minimal, compared to Low / Null sec, but I like it as is.

I do not think it should be required to goto low sec just to see bigger ships. I do not think it should be required to goto low sec to have any interaction with players and Corps there. I think that if smaller High Sec based Corps were allowed the Ability to help Manufacture these Awesome Weapons of War, then They would be able to do just that, they CAN interact , albeit in a very small way, with Low Sec players and Corps. They may not have a huge impact upon the Environment, and it may be no where near as efficient, but it, again, allows that connection, and interaction with the whole Eveverse.

Again, these comments are going with the assumption that there will be measures in place to limit the imbalances that can arise.

Bhattran
Posted - 2010.09.26 14:14:00 - [16]
 

No, there is a reason to keep them out, neutering them or slapping shackles on them so you can have a 'parade' is silly.

You want to see capitals, get on the test server and join a mass test or hop into one of the capital fights/mock fleet battles that happen or actually goto lowsec/00 and get involved.

To just 'show new players' what is possible I think if you ask some of the capital pilots they might tell you they have more fun in smaller ships than they do in the big beasts. The beasts also take much more time to train for and ISK to get skill books, purchase them/replace them etc.

The distinctions about what can be done in highsec/low/null are all part of the game if you don't want to go there you don't get the benefit, it is as simple as that. If you don't like it then accept that you won't get to do it, face it and try it, or move on to another game. I see a lot of 'I don't want to play by the rules so change them' and I don't think that is the way to do it, deal with them or don't, don't means drop your goal, or leave the game.


Davelantor
Caldari
The Resistance Movement
Posted - 2010.09.26 15:24:00 - [17]
 

I am against this idea

Reasons:
1)Would mean Cyno's would be allowed in High Sec.
2)If Cyno's allowed in high sec. the tactical advantages of some of the anti-logistics operations that go between 0.0 <-> High sec. would disappear.
3)If moon mining was allowed in high sec. the 0.0 would loose its importance.
4)There are those high sec. restrictions because there is also the protection of concord [unless in war].
5)OK, i see you want to help out small corporations, but if you open high sec to moon mining and etc. Balance of power will get trown away. Instead of small corporations, large alliances will simply eliminate the high sec. moon mining competition and it will be all over again.
6)EvE-Online is a PvP game in the roots, everything you build is to be destroyed so you can have a continuous supply of consumers. If you turn EvE-Online into this fuzzy cute place where everybody can get the 0.0 benefits while remaining under the protection of concord. NO, not going to happen.

PS. Not counting the war decs. but you essentially get my reasoning i hope.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2010.09.26 15:24:00 - [18]
 

DOn't agree with allowing capitals into highsec, because as soon as cynos are allowed, then lowsec will get used even less than it currently is.

I do think that there should be NPC capship eyecandy in highsec though- maybe in 1.0?


 

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