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Marvin Senitia
Posted - 2010.09.20 00:48:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: Sub Prime
I'll echo what a couple of other posters have said:

Great addition to Eve, but a shame it doesn't have the extra midslot to enable it to run a propulsion mod, codebreaker & analyzer.

Codebreaking & hacking seem to have been forgotten arts and this could have boosted them somewhat (the cycle time reduction too for those mods would be great :) ).


+1 for the extra mid slot.

I might get one personally for the times I'm going to mission, but seems my Drake will still be salvager for wh ops.

With the cans in some of the wh Radar and Magnetometric sites 40+km apart from one another I'm definately not going to try and hack/analyze them in the Noctis as going at 155m/s between the cans will take ages. Going between them is already time consuming enough with a MWD.

Zarnak Wulf
Posted - 2010.09.20 03:35:00 - [182]
 

Now if CCP truly has their act together I would expect them to use this new salvaging ship as a gift to the mission runners so that the destroyers can be revamped into true combat ships w/o any complaints. Oh.... who am I kidding? ugh

Flight Line
Posted - 2010.09.20 04:40:00 - [183]
 

Is it just me, or does anyone else thing CCP has approached the skill side of ORE ships backwards? They have steadily released ships that require skills that would seem to fit as pre-requisites for former ships. We first have a Capital Industrial Ship, then and Industrial Command Ship and finally an Ore Industrial. If anything, the Rorqual would nicely need part or all of Indutrial Command Ship and Ore Industrial in a similar way that you need Industrial ships trained for Transports and Freighters? Does that make sense?

I admit a certain amount of joy in seeing the ship and I'll be flying one as well.

Escoce
Gallente
Interstellar Tritanium
United Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.09.20 04:42:00 - [184]
 

You know, the Orca makes an excellent dedicated salvage ship already. Only thing about it is the required mining director skills to pilot it. Plus it has huge cargo as well as ship maintenance bay with fitting service for support ships.

Arora Firesight
Posted - 2010.09.20 07:26:00 - [185]
 

Edited by: Arora Firesight on 20/09/2010 09:44:01


======================================================================

So to summery.... this is what people might like with the ship. just taking stoke of everyones excellent ideas and id say nice one koodos to the community

Great ship, but people have suggested that they would like>

* Code Braker/archeology bonus.

* A drone bay with drone band width. as the introduction of the currently non public salvage drone.

* and extra mid slot.

* a slight increase in CPU.

* to go with the ship the introduction of the mid and large tractor beams.

* some turret hard points for gas harvesters (i may see a slight problem as it might be the case that CCP has intended this ship not to have offensive abilities(but thats up to CCP to comment), so maybe a revamp of of the GH's to not rely on turret hard points maybe a better idea)

* for this ship in general to fill more than one role in the game...

I like this ship and what CCP is intending... i would just like to see if CCP would like to comment on the suggestions others have made, as personally i wouldn't want them to be forgotten...

i would also like to ask as to weather this extras that other players have suggested would imbalance the ship?

(my idea) Lastly as i was intrigued by the idea of using this new ship for WH op's, maybe add a small probe bonus, as ninja's will be using this ship anyhow....

There has been a mention of a T2 version, so if not placing these ideas in this t1, maybe make the T2 a fullon Utility/salvage/exploration/gas harvest ship... and if so please add more mid and low slots for ether an armor or shield tank as it would be much needed.

Kindly and respectfully awaiting CCP's reply... and also thoughts and input from the community..

Much love and A star marks so far for the ship... much needed.

more ideas to come

Schwester B
Posted - 2010.09.20 10:35:00 - [186]
 

Need a version, who could use the covert jump portal to clean grids after huge battles in cynojammed systems. May be a tech2 version, please.

Galmarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2010.09.20 10:36:00 - [187]
 

Wow! Another carebear improvement

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.20 11:14:00 - [188]
 

should have been an additional t3 cruiser or even an extra subsystem for the tech 3, but i guess salvaging prices will fall after it goes thro ( quicker salvaging more supply) so me thinks its time to raid my salvage supplies and begin to offload before buy orders start to get repriced

Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.09.20 11:17:00 - [189]
 

i need more med slots please, i cannot keep the Dramiel in smartbomb range else.

You could smartbomb/neut it but still 1-2 med slots are missing but well, you might get other ceptors in it.

CCP Greyscale

Posted - 2010.09.20 11:17:00 - [190]
 

Small clarification: the ORE Industrial skillbook will be available everywhere that the Mining Barge skillbook is currently available. This should include all school stations in empire. Should've been clearer about that, my bad.

Originally by: Shawshanke
humm looks like we are both wrong, that blueprint is neither a copy or original. Right above the "Produces Noctis [1]" is where it should either say "Original Blueprint" or "Blueprint Copy" but its blank.


Also my bad, I did show info on the Platonic form of the blueprint rather than creating one in cargo and doing show info on that. It is in fact a blueprint original when you buy it.

Originally by: ChataJohn
Well, nice I guess. However, if its an "ancient" ship design (being a mod on the Primae) - you've inappropriately priced the bpo that's for sure.


The lineage of the ship is roughly as follows:

Back in the "olden days" (pre-capsuleer), ORE designed a ship to quickly recover wreckage. "Quickly" by the standards of the time was pretty damn slow though, so they stopped using when capsuleers made the practice too dangerous.

More recently, they dug up the old designs again and tried to figure out if they could make money off them. The eventual goal was something like the Noctis (ie, a ship that fulfilled the original design function), based on stuff they'd learned designing the Rorqual and Orca. The Primae was an offshoot project repurposed to make planetary operations a bit easier, and also as a limited-run testbed to see if the hull refinements worked well. The Noctis integrates data gathered from the Primae project to make it a better ship. The cost of the Noctis is mainly in the equipment that gives the bonuses - the actual hull structure itself is fairly cheap to construct.

Jose Black
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2010.09.20 11:31:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Jada Maroo
THANK YOU for not wasting this hull CCP! Thumbs up!

CCP Greyscale

Posted - 2010.09.20 13:41:00 - [192]
 

On the subject of midslots and drone bays:

We talked about this internally just now, and for now we're going to stick with the current stats. We fully agree that a third mid and some drones would make the ship much more useful, but that's not the same thing as more balanced. In particular, as soon as we start giving it non-comedy offensive capabilities, the task of balancing the ship becomes a lot more involved, and one of the things that's enabled such a quick turnaround on the Noctis is that it really doesn't have any serious combat potential so we can stat it up much more quickly.

All in all, we think the ship as it stands now already justifies itself, and trying to make ships more awesome than they really need to be has historically been a source of considerable imbalance. We'd rather not take that risk again in this case Smile

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2010.09.20 13:54:00 - [193]
 

Wow. A pre-nerfed salvaging ship that's fat and slow and can't really do anything but follow me in missions. Sweet. I'm so very happy.

I'm glad CCP is so careful not to introduce an overpowered salvaging ship. They make sure everything is underpowered. Or is an angel faction ship.

Arora Firesight
Posted - 2010.09.20 13:58:00 - [194]
 

what about a T2 type taking all the area of Utility/salvege/exploration and the probe bonus for ninja's/HW salvege...?

Camios
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.09.20 14:17:00 - [195]
 

Edited by: Camios on 20/09/2010 14:31:14
Well done CCP. A salvage platform that costs less than 500 million (and actually less than 30mil) is very useful, and that's it.

Useful and beautiful. It's an awesome addition to PVE, period.



lol this will not fix sov warfare but it's ok.

Just a consideration: this will never be a ninja salvager ship, it's too slow and its main point lies in the tractor beam capability (ok, a reduction in 25% salvaging time is good but it's not the best bonus) that can only be used on the cans you own.

Apple Boy
Gallente
Tri-gun
Auctorita Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.20 14:24:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
On the subject of midslots and drone bays:

We talked about this internally just now, and for now we're going to stick with the current stats. We fully agree that a third mid and some drones would make the ship much more useful, but that's not the same thing as more balanced. In particular, as soon as we start giving it non-comedy offensive capabilities, the task of balancing the ship becomes a lot more involved, and one of the things that's enabled such a quick turnaround on the Noctis is that it really doesn't have any serious combat potential so we can stat it up much more quickly.

All in all, we think the ship as it stands now already justifies itself, and trying to make ships more awesome than they really need to be has historically been a source of considerable imbalance. We'd rather not take that risk again in this case Smile


As a career salvager, I'm thinking this ship would be well suited with the bonus changed from salvager cycle time to chance of salvage retrieval, just because I want to get an even higher chance (implants + t2 rigs isn't enough!), a single gun slot for killmail whoring during battles, 5m3 drone bay for the mining drone, and slight increase in armor EHP via more HP, higher base resists or more lows and more cpu to increase resists. I need to be able to not be alpha'ed while I'm salvaging during a battle!

Dav Varan
Posted - 2010.09.20 15:29:00 - [197]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale

All in all, we think the ship as it stands now already justifies itself, and trying to make ships more awesome than they really need to be has historically been a source of considerable imbalance. We'd rather not take that risk again in this case Smile



Cough Dramiel Cough Cough Laughing

Rhok Relztem
Caldari
CGMA Synergist Syndicate
Posted - 2010.09.20 16:04:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
On the subject of midslots and drone bays:

We talked about this internally just now, and for now we're going to stick with the current stats. We fully agree that a third mid and some drones would make the ship much more useful, but that's not the same thing as more balanced. In particular, as soon as we start giving it non-comedy offensive capabilities, the task of balancing the ship becomes a lot more involved, and one of the things that's enabled such a quick turnaround on the Noctis is that it really doesn't have any serious combat potential so we can stat it up much more quickly.

All in all, we think the ship as it stands now already justifies itself, and trying to make ships more awesome than they really need to be has historically been a source of considerable imbalance. We'd rather not take that risk again in this case Smile

How does an extra mid-slot and a drone bay (for SALVAGE drones or mining drones) equate to offensive capabilities or unbalancing in any way? Both of these only serve to make the ship more useful as a salvager and allows either a bit more defense or an extra mod for Archaeology or Hacking, giving the ship more than one role. They don't make the ship more awesome, unbalanced, nor offensive, just more useful.

C'mon Greyscale, those arguments just don't cut it. Agreed, the ship is a nice addition but with it's current design and stats, it's going to have a very limited player demand due to it's sole role and will be a sitting duck for gankers and pirates. The drone bay would give it mining capabilities and give you a great excuse to introduce the already designed but unpublished salvage drones, and the mid slot would allow for the use of shield upgrades, propulsion mods, analyzers, and codebreakers to name just a few.

Hopefully, you already have T2 and T3 versions in the planning that would have extra low and mid slots and have cloaking and jump bonuses as well as exploration/WO uses with both a turret and launcher hardpoints for probes, gas harvesting, and/or minimal offensive/defensive use.

Caldari citizen52145894561
Posted - 2010.09.20 16:56:00 - [199]
 

can I trade in my Primae for a Noctis?

Sanne Allows
Caldari
4-25 AVN Regement
Sovereign Technologies
Posted - 2010.09.20 17:47:00 - [200]
 

How about a bomus to salvege chance, even if small, since it IS a dedicated salveger?

Eikelhaven
Posted - 2010.09.20 19:27:00 - [201]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
On the subject of midslots and drone bays:

We talked about this internally just now, and for now we're going to stick with the current stats. We fully agree that a third mid and some drones would make the ship much more useful, but that's not the same thing as more balanced. In particular, as soon as we start giving it non-comedy offensive capabilities, the task of balancing the ship becomes a lot more involved, and one of the things that's enabled such a quick turnaround on the Noctis is that it really doesn't have any serious combat potential so we can stat it up much more quickly.

All in all, we think the ship as it stands now already justifies itself, and trying to make ships more awesome than they really need to be has historically been a source of considerable imbalance. We'd rather not take that risk again in this case Smile


Thanks very much for the specific reply to my mid slot concern. I realize you have to be very careful when bringing in a new ship not to make something that provides an unbalanced advantage. Of course, your answer regarding the extra mid slot is not the answer I was personally hoping for, but I appreciate knowing CCP has at least considered the concern.

I may not get an answer to this specific question, but I want to put it out there. With only 2 mid slots, the Noctis will not be a viable wormhole salvaging ship. Even with this great new salvaging ships, wormhole salvagers will continue to use their battlecruisers. I just want to put this forth clearly and make sure those working on the design of the ship are aware. Is it the intent that the Noctis would not be used in wormholes?

Shawshanke
Posted - 2010.09.20 23:10:00 - [202]
 

Edited by: Shawshanke on 20/09/2010 23:11:57
2 things I don't understand.

1. ORE is easily one of the richest npc corps in the game, yet they have a grand total of 4 stations in the entire eve universe.

2. Haulers would need to be structurally stronger than your common vehicle for obvious reasons, and ones that may be shot at are even more re-enforced. Why are most of eve's industrial including this new on soap bubbles?

Swidgen
Posted - 2010.09.20 23:37:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Also my bad, I did show info on the Platonic form of the blueprint rather than creating one in cargo and doing show info on that. It is in fact a blueprint original when you buy it.

Will these BPOs be seeded in Outer Ring for a limited time, or will they be available indefinitely?

Mr LaForge
Posted - 2010.09.21 02:15:00 - [204]
 

Honestly it needs a 4th low and 3rd mid slot. I don't care about the drones as everything should be dead when you use the ship. Also the cycle bonus for salvagers should be replaced with a 5% increase to the access difficulty factor per level. If you can get 100% each time then it doesn't matter what your cycle time is really.

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.09.21 08:42:00 - [205]
 

Finally!

Next up: a SoE exploration/hacking/etc ship. Pretty please.

Xessej
Posted - 2010.09.21 13:53:00 - [206]
 

While I understand that caution is usually best this would be the only completely offenceless non shuttle non freighter ever. No matter how lol worthy the fact is all indsutrials have a turret and all ORE ships have a drone bay.

A 25 m3 bay and bandwidth for a flight of light scouts will in now way make this thing an offensive power house. It will let it deal with hisec belt rats if it encounters a spawn while salvaging wrecks in a belt (with no ability to scandown wrecks this is the only souce of wrecks for a salvager uninterested in ninjaing or running missions).

Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2010.09.21 14:10:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: Xessej
While I understand that caution is usually best this would be the only completely offenceless non shuttle non freighter ever. No matter how lol worthy the fact is all indsutrials have a turret and all ORE ships have a drone bay.

A 25 m3 bay and bandwidth for a flight of light scouts will in now way make this thing an offensive power house. It will let it deal with hisec belt rats if it encounters a spawn while salvaging wrecks in a belt (with no ability to scandown wrecks this is the only souce of wrecks for a salvager uninterested in ninjaing or running missions).
/signed.

A 25 m3 drone bay does make this ship more powerful than the destroyers it replaces, but still far less potent than the battle cruiser class hulls it is also intended to replace. It could be argued that this ship, with light drones, will be used by a dual-boxing mission runner to wipe clean frigate NPCs, allowing the heavy tank to focus on cruiser-class hulls and above. But that's no different than bringing in a BC salvager with 50 m3 of drone bandwidth.

Utremi Fasolasi
Gallente
La Dolce Vita
Posted - 2010.09.21 15:09:00 - [208]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
On the subject of midslots and drone bays:

We talked about this internally just now, and for now we're going to stick with the current stats. We fully agree that a third mid and some drones would make the ship much more useful, but that's not the same thing as more balanced.


I see a need for a 5-10m drone bay though - very modest like that - for mission spaces that may spawn a single (weak) rat if you hang around long enough, unless those are only triggered by mining and not just extended presence in the pocket. Catalyst has room for 1 light drone and has always been sufficient for me when salvaging a mission.

It is enough to take care of rat spawns but would never pose a threat to a PVP fitted ship.

Mad Crafter
Valor Inc.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.09.21 19:54:00 - [209]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Small clarification: the ORE Industrial skillbook will be available everywhere that the Mining Barge skillbook is currently available. This should include all school stations in empire. Should've been clearer about that, my bad.


And here I was planning on selling them for up to 100M each on the first day YARRRR!!

Ah well, theirs always overpricing the BPOs.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.09.21 22:01:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: Sanne Allows
How about a bomus to salvege chance, even if small, since it IS a dedicated salveger?

Sure.. you practically kicked ninjas out of the salvaging biz with this fella and to sugarcoat it you want a higher chance for it to drop salvage?
Anyways, you should realize that not just you alone would have a higher chance for salvage, all your fellow capsulers flying this thing would get the same bonus.. so looked at the bigger picture of the supply side of salvage, your income/profits/earnings go down if you have it to easy.


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