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Saidin Thor
Posted - 2010.09.15 15:24:00 - [61]
 

Please put me down for 50 shares.

Note: I'm moving back to college in the next 2 days, so I might be a little hard to reach, especially Friday (driving all day) but please don't take that as "I've pulled out/ignoring you/whatever".

Lord Beckford
Posted - 2010.09.15 16:19:00 - [62]
 

i like the way you present and feel like you've answered the questions fired at you really well. this is probly a risky IPO but it seems like you really wana make it work. however i have a few questions before i stake my investment. if the questions have been covered before i apologise i probly missed them.

How often will you pay dividends? what is the time frame for when you will pay back the entire investments?

if you start to lose profit and end up having to pullout at 30% loss how much of that will come out of your 5bil? i ask this because in an earlier post when you discussed pulling out your figures didnt add up or you only equated for investments loss of 30%. if this is so then whether you put 5 bil or not investors are 100% the fall guy for your IPO?


although we dont know what exactly your plan is why have you limited yourself to 10bil investment? obviously you need more then 10 bil because you are putting 5bil yourself. why not keep the IPO open to investment while you are operating and paying dividends for once you pay your first dividend im sure others will want a piece. also once you release your IPO properly and people then start knowing what you are doing you have stated yourself you are going to have competitors wouldnt it be prudent to have spare liquid cash to compete with such?

Lucyna
Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
Posted - 2010.09.15 16:52:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: RAW23
This definitely seems like too much too soon to me.

At the moment, the isk/effort ratio is very good for a scam. With some very light posting in MD and no business history, you are now asking for 10bil in public funds. At a bare minimum you need to identify this business opportunity to someone who can report back and confirm that it exists as well as say a bit more about the potential risks. Unconventional business plans have also historically had a considerably higher proportion of scams than conventional business plans. In addition, you need an audit to cover the basic security screening information.

Basically, as it stands, there is nothing to differentiate this offer, so far as I can see, from a low effort, high target value scam. Covering the points above would mitigate the low effort somewhat by providing a slightly higher entry barrier. But it still looks like too much for a more or less complete newcomer. Can you suggest any further ways for a potential investor such as myself to distinguish your offer from a scam?


This is all I was really trying to get at in my post. At this point, you've had no ventures in MD to prove profitability. Beyond that, you've put in maybe 10-20 hours into MD with posting and audits.

Then you go straight for 10B isk of public funding. That's 1B-500M isk/hr of effort that you've already put in (sunk cost).

Basically, I just want to see you succeed. Getting this much money presents incentives for you to not put in the effort to run a legitimate investment. If you want to participate in manipulation, why not cut the funding in half and take a shot at a different market? That way, it'd be less worth it for you to scam and give you more incentive to complete that venture successfully.

Of course, I've been known to be conservative in my approach to investments. If your "heart is true" as they say, (actually I'm being sincere here) good luck with the fund.

Ramingo
Caldari
Verplante Juenger Hamburgs
Legion of Damnation
Posted - 2010.09.15 19:32:00 - [64]
 

I just got back from football and I'm knackered. Good questions but I'll have to answer them tomorrow morning.

Algalon
Posted - 2010.09.15 22:15:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Lucyna
Originally by: RAW23
This definitely seems like too much too soon to me.

At the moment, the isk/effort ratio is very good for a scam. With some very light posting in MD and no business history, you are now asking for 10bil in public funds. At a bare minimum you need to identify this business opportunity to someone who can report back and confirm that it exists as well as say a bit more about the potential risks. Unconventional business plans have also historically had a considerably higher proportion of scams than conventional business plans. In addition, you need an audit to cover the basic security screening information.

Basically, as it stands, there is nothing to differentiate this offer, so far as I can see, from a low effort, high target value scam. Covering the points above would mitigate the low effort somewhat by providing a slightly higher entry barrier. But it still looks like too much for a more or less complete newcomer. Can you suggest any further ways for a potential investor such as myself to distinguish your offer from a scam?


This is all I was really trying to get at in my post. At this point, you've had no ventures in MD to prove profitability. Beyond that, you've put in maybe 10-20 hours into MD with posting and audits.

Then you go straight for 10B isk of public funding. That's 1B-500M isk/hr of effort that you've already put in (sunk cost).

Basically, I just want to see you succeed. Getting this much money presents incentives for you to not put in the effort to run a legitimate investment. If you want to participate in manipulation, why not cut the funding in half and take a shot at a different market? That way, it'd be less worth it for you to scam and give you more incentive to complete that venture successfully.

Of course, I've been known to be conservative in my approach to investments. If your "heart is true" as they say, (actually I'm being sincere here) good luck with the fund.


This to me doesn't make any sense. At all. If someone wants to scam, they will. It doesn't matter how many or how few hours he's put into his MD reputation, because at the end of the day if his goal is a really fast payday for as little work as possible, then he'll scam. If not, than that person just won't scam. And if anything, the longer a person slaves away at building a reputation for themselves might just give them MORE incentive to scam because of all the "tedious hard work and effort they've put in with little to no reward to show for it" and when they suddenly have all this cold hard isk sitting in front of them it's a lot easier to justify stealing it (in their minds).

A reputation is good for two things. Showing that the person isn't only just a smooth talker but can actually perform when the time comes and actually turn a profit, and giving MD idiots the comfort and solace into investing blindly just because the person is "known" and therefore somehow deemed trustworthy.

Induc
Amarr
Posted - 2010.09.15 23:33:00 - [66]
 

Sorry, but I enjoy calling people scammers and I must say this might be the most obvious attempt so far.
Originally by: Algalon
This to me doesn't make any sense. At all. If someone wants to scam, they will. It doesn't matter how many or how few hours he's put into his MD reputation, because at the end of the day if his goal is a really fast payday for as little work as possible, then he'll scam.

So you're saying since everyone could scam, you should just hand out money to anyone and hope for the best? (Obvious alt of Ramingo btw)

Now Ramingo, if you've actually managed to get almost 7B already I would advice you to make a run for it, as this is probably as good as it's going to get.

On top of that, even if you're not going to scam, market manipulation in itself is very risky and unpredictable, and since no one knows if you're capable enough lets just summarize this offer as: VERY RISKY.

F90OEX
F9X
Posted - 2010.09.15 23:52:00 - [67]
 

Sounds like he has good intentions, but since I know 1 or 2 things about controlling markets (3.5 years+), depending on the Item/s your looking to buy/sell, as mentioned on the 1st page, I question if 10-15bil is going to be enough.

One thing about Market manipulation and control is expect the unexpected. What happens if all your 15bil or most of is invested and someone else comes along playing 1 Isk games, how are you going to get more Isk to stay on top. Because your going to need that extra capital.

Also personally I have never liked long term market manipulation of items sold on the market, you get in > profit > you get out and wait. Also the price history I have never liked since if your mark up is too high, smart buyers will either go to another region or wait til the price comes back down to "normal" levels.

And I mean not to knock you down and you seem like a nice chap, you have very little hands on experience, but what that said you seem to have the right knowledge.

Last thing I will mention you never make any friends with market manipulation and control, you have the bully, e-threaten (price) and some other tactics that work to get your competitors to go else where, you ALWAYS have to be on top of it and work.

This is why market traders get burned out easy since it requires too much effort and work, and you never see them again Twisted Evil

On the F9X risk scale I'd give this a 7.5/10 for the reasons mentioned above.





Ramingo
Caldari
Verplante Juenger Hamburgs
Legion of Damnation
Posted - 2010.09.16 04:13:00 - [68]
 

LB: I can't give you any figures on dividends, payback etc since I simply can't tell. And if I decide to pull out at any point, i.e. 30% losses or not enough profits, then whatever the wallet balance is will be paid out as a full dividend, i.e. I'll get 33% of the wallet due to my 5 bill out of 15 bill investment. That includes both profits and losses.
And yeah, more than 15bill would reduce the risk, as I stated in the IPO, but you saw how people barely trust me with 10 bill because it's a first offering, and we're still a few hundred mill short of the minimum target for me to even start the process.

Lucyna: Think what you want, your points are valid but I'm not going to get into a war of the words around the lines of "you're going to scam" "no I'm not" blah blah. And thanks, a little luck is always appreciated.

Induc: Obvious troll

F9: I know, 15 bill isn't exactly a large sum for this but I have to start somewhere. I'll try and grow this and use parts of the profits to increase my capital so that when I move on to a different item/market I will have more initial cash to play with, without having to accept new investors.
Given your CNR manipulations I was actually hoping to hire you for some consultation. And I don't care about friends on the market. I'll shoot my friends ingame if we're red, so why would I show any leniency to random traders? Also, worst case if I'm heavily invested and looking to make a huge profit but need extra capital quick, I still have a further 5-10 bill of my own that I can throw in to force the tide. Anyway, if you're up for it please contact me in-game on Ramingo or Tatal Zmeu I'd appreciate it.







RAW23
Posted - 2010.09.16 05:59:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Algalon

This to me doesn't make any sense. At all. If someone wants to scam, they will. It doesn't matter how many or how few hours he's put into his MD reputation, because at the end of the day if his goal is a really fast payday for as little work as possible, then he'll scam. If not, than that person just won't scam.


I've highlighted the important part. If this is his goal then by expecting a slower progression from new faces you stop the scammer who is after a fast payday from getting much isk for his effort. 10bil is not something you should be able to just pick up quickly after making a few dozen posts. By making this a difficult stage to attain you deter all those scammers looking for a large, fast payday. Obviously, this won't deter any one who only wants 1 bil but by demanding more effort for higher values you make scamming a less attractive, harder and more time-consuming option.

Ramingo
Caldari
Verplante Juenger Hamburgs
Legion of Damnation
Posted - 2010.09.16 06:47:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Ramingo on 16/09/2010 06:48:14
I agree with you Raw, it's just that in my case I had 3 options:

- Offer an IPO with 10 bill of outside investment
- Do one with even less ISK and basically get nowhere as 15 bill is already on the low end of the MM spectrum
- Do not do an IPO at all

For me, starting the rep grind just didn't make sense and still does not. I'm not a station trader, I don't play the 0.01 isk game. I consider myself a bigger-picture guy and that's why I skipped the small station trading bonds to establish a trading rep. In the end I could offer a 1b bond, then 5b, then jump to 20b as many have and still decide to scam the 20b bond irrespective of what my NAV was during the first 2 bonds.

Anyway, almost 7 bill of investment has been reserved and I'd consider that really good given that it's my first IPO. However, by the looks of things and lack of new investors in the last day other than some of my personal friends, it doesn't look like my minimum target will be reached and rather than wasting my time and taking a large gamble with MMing with too little isk, I will have to cancel the IPO in a few hours as stated in my original post. Since any isk that has been sent to me prematurely has been returned, this will consist merely of editing the thread and closing it.
If anybody is interested I will sell the business plan for a bill or to the highest bidder (it's a great 1 as I've identified a vulnerability in the market) and someone with a better rep can try pulling it off.

RAW23
Posted - 2010.09.16 07:19:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Ramingo
Edited by: Ramingo on 16/09/2010 06:48:14
I agree with you Raw, it's just that in my case I had 3 options:

- Offer an IPO with 10 bill of outside investment
- Do one with even less ISK and basically get nowhere as 15 bill is already on the low end of the MM spectrum
- Do not do an IPO at all

For me, starting the rep grind just didn't make sense and still does not. I'm not a station trader, I don't play the 0.01 isk game. I consider myself a bigger-picture guy and that's why I skipped the small station trading bonds to establish a trading rep. In the end I could offer a 1b bond, then 5b, then jump to 20b as many have and still decide to scam the 20b bond irrespective of what my NAV was during the first 2 bonds.

Anyway, almost 7 bill of investment has been reserved and I'd consider that really good given that it's my first IPO. However, by the looks of things and lack of new investors in the last day other than some of my personal friends, it doesn't look like my minimum target will be reached and rather than wasting my time and taking a large gamble with MMing with too little isk, I will have to cancel the IPO in a few hours as stated in my original post. Since any isk that has been sent to me prematurely has been returned, this will consist merely of editing the thread and closing it.
If anybody is interested I will sell the business plan for a bill or to the highest bidder (it's a great 1 as I've identified a vulnerability in the market) and someone with a better rep can try pulling it off.


It's not a question of grinding rep so much as a question of not trying to get investors to do things that you yourself admit are questionable from an investor perspective. Skipping the first stage of the 1bil level bonds is something I can sympathise with, having done it myself, but leaping all the way to a 10bil bond is a bad idea for a range of reasons.

Putting aside the possibility that you yourself might scam, it is an irresponsible thing to try to do (from a community perspective) as, if successful, it sets a precedent that could cause problem in the future by encouraging low effort attempts to scam relatively large amounts. As someone who is offering a community service by providing audits it might be worth bearing in mind how certain actions can help or harm the 'investment community' (to the extent that there i one) at large.

/moralising Wink

On another note, selling the plan is an excellent idea but you still need to get someone to verify that it is viable if you want to sell it publicly. This is something you really need to chase yourself, as with an audit, and then present to the public, rather than waiting until it is demanded.

Ramingo
Caldari
Verplante Juenger Hamburgs
Legion of Damnation
Posted - 2010.09.16 07:47:00 - [72]
 

Thanks for the moral lecture :P
I was hoping for this to set a precedent, but on my behalf. In the future I'd like to repeat more IPOs using this style and technique which I had in mind at larger sums, with the average one being in the 30-40 billion range.
But since it requires getting the first one started and using it for both increasing my own capital as well as finetuning the technique, selling the idea might be a better idea.
Or I'll just do it entirely with my own isk and shoulder all the risk, then let myself get audited to show a track record/profitability, then relaunch another 15-20 bill bond.

Anyway at around 18:00 eve time I'll decide whether I'll run the IPO or poke some friends for the remainder of the isk to get this started, which would also give others who haven't seen my latest answers to last night's questions the chance to invest.

I just made up my mind regarding dividends/reinvestment and the best idea I can come up with at the moment is the following:

- Profit will be reinvested, i.e. little to no dividends until I have accumulated a large enough cash reserve to manipulate several different items/markets, or to expand in profitable existing ones.
- Shares will be tradeable, so that any existing investor in need of isk can cash out at any time. Value of shares should increase proportionately to what dividends would have been. I don't make any extra money off this/risk of scam is same, but shareholder value increases. This I think is going to satisfy investors because they can have liquidity/decide to sell a small percentage of their shares instead of getting dividends, and also because it will increase the overall isk of the bond allowing me to achieve greater profits. At least that's what I learned at University ;)
- Shares will be brokered by me, i.e. if an investor wants to sell, send shares to me, buyer sends isk to me and I'll swap them around. Unless of course there is no issue of trust between buyer and seller in which case you can do it between yourselves.

If anybody that has reserved shares does not like this idea then please retract your reservations now so others can fill the places in time.

Alacta Lithia
Posted - 2010.09.16 10:20:00 - [73]
 

please reduce my reservation to 200mil.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.09.16 10:37:00 - [74]
 

Quote:

It's not a question of grinding rep so much as a question of not trying to get investors to do things that you yourself admit are questionable from an investor perspective. Skipping the first stage of the 1bil level bonds is something I can sympathise with, having done it myself, but leaping all the way to a 10bil bond is a bad idea for a range of reasons.



I'd like to expand on this.

First of all, this might be a failed IPO but it's a succesful and valuable lesson, therefore Ramigo did not get out empty handed if he knows where to look.

Second. I post like a nut, my signature is everywhere and it has links to WTF to do in order to have a peaceful MD life (and also about auditors). The links are flagged with: "When looking for investors, please read...".
Unsurprisingly, almost none will read anything about that.

Third, grinding rep should backfire and often does. Rep should be awarded and earned off the investors, not farmed.

Fourth, I can understand the idea that an initiative that requires (in Ramingo's plans) 15B makes the 1B - 2B etc. steps pointless.


BUT


There's a but. A mistake has been made. You can't think about your wants and even go so far as asking for public money without also considering that the others are also part of the equation.
I mean, before the investee needs, comes also "what do the OTHERS" want? May a compromise or even an agreement be sealed if everyone shouts ME ME ME?

The sad truth is that as long as the "others" are those with the money, then the investee has to listen and even withstand them.
Their money is at stake, in a game with ZERO security or accountability for those stealing it *or wasting / defaulting* it.

Even if the investors believe in the investee not scamming, they also want some idea that their money won't be lost because of self proclaimed:

- Undercapitalization. This is one of the top 3 failure reasons in RL trading / investment.

- Inexperience in that niche.

- Lack of records of any previous success.


This is why the 1B bonds happen.

This is why a NY skyscr_aper architect is probably demanded to be able to design a car box early in his career or GTFO.

I am sure that with some previous records (even about unrelated activities) and a basic acquaintaince with investors, 10B would not have been an issue to raise.

Acquaintance imho is one of the few decent ways to get trust. In fact, best scammers feign being a badass and nice investee first, they don't go "giev me 20B kthxbay".
If they know this is the way to go, why wouldn't the legit investees try a similar approach?

If the investors are only ready to trust a new one with 1-2B even if he needs 10B, though luck for him. Hold the big requests and start small.

As I posted my teacher's lesson in my RL finance thread:

"You have to be ready for the market"

but also

"The market has to be ready for you".

This IPO failed in the latter and the OP gave little reassurance at the former.


Induc
Amarr
Posted - 2010.09.16 11:14:00 - [75]
 

Sure, I might be trolling a bit, but I'm just saying that asking for 10b on your first IPO instantly labels you as either a scammer or very naive. With that sum people will want to know exactly how you came up with that figure, how you're planning to use it and why you think you can handle it.
Originally by: Ramingo
In the future I'd like to repeat more IPOs using this style and technique which I had in mind at larger sums, with the average one being in the 30-40 billion range.

If you're actually serious about this I just want to tell you that there's hardly anyone that has ever raised that kind of money uncollaterized, so getting there will take time.

As you said yourself, playing with your own 5b first, and then get an auditor to prove it was successful is probably the only way to go here.

Titus Phook
Posted - 2010.09.16 20:28:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Titus Phook on 16/09/2010 20:40:33
If you do decide to go ahead with it I'd like to reserve 50 shares/50 million

Zekuloth
Posted - 2010.09.16 23:23:00 - [77]
 

I keep coming back to MD and keep realizing there is a huge number of dumb people with large amounts of isk they simply want to throw away and never have again. It wasnt enough for them to have lost billions to Bad Bobby but now here is a Bad Bobby alt and they just throwing more money away.

No info to what IPO is about - check.
No Audit - check
OP is evasive on questions related to IPO - check
OP is relatively new to MD - check

THIS IS A SCAM - check.

Lucyna
Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
Posted - 2010.09.16 23:49:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Zekuloth
I keep coming back to MD and keep realizing there is a huge number of dumb people with large amounts of isk they simply want to throw away and never have again. It wasnt enough for them to have lost billions to Bad Bobby but now here is a Bad Bobby alt and they just throwing more money away.

No info to what IPO is about - check.
No Audit - check
OP is evasive on questions related to IPO - check
OP is relatively new to MD - check

THIS IS A SCAM - check.


Cool bro. How about you go around in every thread like you have a hardon proclaiming that this is the next T4U? Eventually, you'll be right.

Checklist for you:
You have 1 post in your history - Check
You claim he is a BB alt with no proof - Check
You claim to "keep coming back to MD" when there is no evidence you were ever "here" - Check
The one post is in the Character Bazaar - Check

THIS IS A TARDY INDIVIDUAL - Check.

Now, go do some learning. You need it.

Algalon
Posted - 2010.09.17 01:36:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Induc
Sorry, but I enjoy calling people scammers and I must say this might be the most obvious attempt so far.
Originally by: Algalon
This to me doesn't make any sense. At all. If someone wants to scam, they will. It doesn't matter how many or how few hours he's put into his MD reputation, because at the end of the day if his goal is a really fast payday for as little work as possible, then he'll scam.

So you're saying since everyone could scam, you should just hand out money to anyone and hope for the best? (Obvious alt of Ramingo btw)



Wow guy, you're really too funny. Selective comprehension much? What I said is that if someone starts an MD venture with the intentions to scam, then that person will scam plain and simple. No amount of audits or past successful ventures can stop him, unless he's a lazy scammer or just too stupid to cover his bases. What I said is that in the end, it really comes down to DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU TRUST the person you're lending out your money to. Short of a collateralized offer, there is always the potential to get scammed.

cosmoray
Perkone
Posted - 2010.09.17 02:09:00 - [80]
 

Nice to see your sticking to your original terms of the IPO that attracted the investors.

Let me now put this IPO in nice plain MD Cosmo English.

OP's terms

1. Highly speculative IPO worth total of 15B (5B of OP money)
2. High risk/high reward or loss
3. Change terms to zero dividend payments
4. Share trading only
5. You provide reports until close out for total accumulated pot
6. You announced that you would like to be able to run larger pools of ISk to better manipulate market

Translation

1. I am launching a high risk 15B ISK IPO
2. No audit, or someone who will pass me easily that I can show I have sufficient cash to do this
3. After 1 month I have done awesome turning it into 18B ISK and just paid everyone out, which is a 20% 1 month return I am a god. BTW my results won't be able to be verified by audit because they might steal my secrets.
4. Now announcing a 40B high risk IPO growth fund of which I am holding 10B in shares.
5. After 1 month the fund is worth 46.8B ISK, but I am afraid will not be verifiable by audit. Confidentiality, you know how it is old boy.
6. Month 2 fund is at 61B ISK.
7. Share trading has been rather brisk with share value up by a third.
8. Please pay no attention to my alts who have secretly been selling my shares at inflated values.
9. I have sold all my shares and STFU suckers, I made 46.2B ISK for about 12 MD posts.
11. I am an MD SCAM god!!



Anyone who even thinks about investing with these change of terms needs to be shot. Biggest red flags for investing you will ever see.

Obvious scam is obvious.


Varcynal Risk
Gallente
The Craniac
Blazing Angels Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.17 05:04:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Varcynal Risk on 17/09/2010 05:06:24
Cosmoray's post has inspired me!
Put me down for 50 Shares instead of my original 10!

Lucyna
Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
Posted - 2010.09.17 05:44:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Varcynal Risk
Edited by: Varcynal Risk on 17/09/2010 05:06:24
Cosmoray's post has inspired me!
Put me down for 50 Shares instead of my original 10!


Love the name :) almost sounds like Financial Risk which I'm all for.

Really, it's not a dig at OP, I swear. Really. Don't believe me?

Ramingo
Caldari
Verplante Juenger Hamburgs
Legion of Damnation
Posted - 2010.09.17 06:18:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: cosmoray

"whine, somebody other than myself is making a new entry into M&D and I don't want to have more competitors to my cosmo bonds"




You've done nothing but spew nonesense in my post, accusations which were partly debunked by myself and aprtly by others.

Reading your latest rant I can't ignore it. IPO failed (and btw, if I wanted to scam I'd have taken the 7+ bill and found some different way to "run the IPO" rather than closing it and not doing it anymore) but you're still a douchebag cosmo.


Translation

1. I am launching a high risk 15B ISK IPO 10 Bill, for the 2nd time directly to you. One of these days you might grasp that bit.
2. No audit, or someone who will pass me easily that I can show I have sufficient cash to do this VV would pass me easily? I offered to tell him everything. In addition I never said I wouldn't do an audit. I said I'm happy to get myself audited, except I stated my reservations as to its usefulness in this case.
3. After 1 month I have done awesome turning it into 18B ISK and just paid everyone out, which is a 20% 1 month return I am a god. BTW my results won't be able to be verified by audit because they might steal my secrets. Everybody with over 500 mill invested would have junior accountant roles so verify throughout the IPO. You're an idiot if you don't get that this is verification/auditing at its most extreme, being under constant voluntary surveillance.
4. Now announcing a 40B high risk IPO growth fund of which I am holding 10B in shares. Yeah but when? What makes you think I'd have done that immediately? Where did I give anything about a time frame? For all you know I would have done it after 100% of the initial bond was repaid and then, using my newly gained expertise, keep making isk, more than I would by scamming? Again you show nothing but unfounded bias.
5. After 1 month the fund is worth 46.8B ISK, but I am afraid will not be verifiable by audit. Confidentiality, you know how it is old boy. Same as before.
6. Month 2 fund is at 61B ISK. Who knows
7. Share trading has been rather brisk with share value up by a third. Probably
8. Please pay no attention to my alts who have secretly been selling my shares at inflated values. Except junior accountants can see who the shareholders are and if my shares have been sold.
9. I have sold all my shares and STFU suckers, I made 46.2B ISK for about 12 MD posts. Right.
11. I am an MD SCAM god!! You forgot 10. And looks to me like you're the scam god trying to debunk any rivals and positioning yourself for the BIG SCAM. GOTTA CATCH BB RIGHT?

Seriously, you're a douchebag for the abovementioned reasons and obviously either lack the IQ for clear thought, or did such an obvious troll simply to **** me off. Congrats, your idiotic comments AFTER I closed the bond did just that.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2010.09.17 06:38:00 - [84]
 

For Pete's sake, it's "MD", not "M&D" - there is no "and" in "Market Discussions".

Mme Pinkerton
The pink win
Posted - 2010.09.17 07:07:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Ramingo
2. No audit, or someone who will pass me easily that I can show I have sufficient cash to do this VV would pass me easily? I offered to tell him everything. In addition I never said I wouldn't do an audit. I said I'm happy to get myself audited, except I stated my reservations as to its usefulness in this case.

You did state you would accept only the one auditor who everybody on MD knows not to accept new jobs.
You didn't give any rationale why VV is more trustworthy in your eyes than the other 4-5 auditors of this forum who might actually accept the job.
That comes down to "I won't accept audits" formulated in a way that would hopefully attract less criticism.

Originally by: Ramingo
4. Now announcing a 40B high risk IPO growth fund of which I am holding 10B in shares. Yeah but when? What makes you think I'd have done that immediately? Where did I give anything about a time frame? For all you know I would have done it after 100% of the initial bond was repaid and then, using my newly gained expertise, keep making isk, more than I would by scamming? Again you show nothing but unfounded bias.

"When" doesn't really matter as long as it's within the next 6-12 months. You might want to read the comments on Xabier's scam - before the scam everybody argued "known MD participation/history, great offering" and only afterwards they realized "wtf, we didn't even know this guy one year ago - how could anybody have given him access to that much ISK?".

The only way you can make more ISK by staying legit than by scamming is if you intend to do an additional expansion and need people's trust for that. But you cannot scale up your offerings forever and I guess as a unknown you would hit the ceiling pretty fast. For the last offering it's always rational to scam as you get all the ISK you could expect by executing your business plus the value of the scam.
I cannot see how you would make more ISK by not scamming...

You have been very forthcoming (although sometimes evasive) throughout most of this thread - now that your immediate need for public ISK is gone, you start flaming. That's bad.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.09.17 08:02:00 - [86]
 

Quote:

You did state you would accept only the one auditor who everybody on MD knows not to accept new jobs.



Two things: one is the sad realization that you could have stopped your sentence after "only the one auditor".
I don't see new auditors coming up that are good for it. There'd be Magnu and Grendell who somehow play around the field but they act more as security / accounting than actively auditing.
Even Ji Sama seems to have stepped down (understandably, he got a big hit imho).

The second thing is that "everybody on MD knows not to accept new jobs" is incorrect, I just posted one audit yesterday and if my next customer didn't give up (I have him waiting...) I'll check him out as well.
Obviously, between having the RL job pressing more and more as we close to Christmas and being the one still active, it's easy to get stalled on the whole line.

Mme Pinkerton
The pink win
Posted - 2010.09.17 08:14:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 17/09/2010 08:15:05

I don't agree with rgds to other auditors - one could at least have asked Magnu, Varo, Kazuo, Breaker, Ji, Lord Arbalest, (anyone I missed?) ...

On the question of your availability I stand corrected, from you not being available for most requests I concluded you had no time for doing audits at all which is of course a fallacy.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.09.17 08:36:00 - [88]
 

Quote:

I don't agree with rgds to other auditors - one could at least have asked Magnu, Varo, Kazuo, Breaker, Ji, Lord Arbalest, (anyone I missed?) ...



Recurring about every third audit request, I get told that the guy tried asking everyone of the above with no success. Other times I don't even need to get told, as I directly see the evemail being addressed to all of them and others. When I talk about active auditors I really intend those who are actually active and keep spitting audits, not those in a list of names of "potential, wereauditors" or those only moving for 30B+ offerings by friends.

Ramingo
Caldari
Verplante Juenger Hamburgs
Legion of Damnation
Posted - 2010.09.17 08:45:00 - [89]
 

Out of all the accusations of scamming, I flamed only 2 people. Lucyna mildly, and cosmoray heavily because what he wrote was purely his opinion with statements made based on his own lies which is why I went vocal against him.

The funny thing is you cry scam regarding my IPO, which is based on hiding 0 facts around my persona (alts, activities, etc) except for the actual facts of the business plan which I couldn't reveal due to its nature. On the other hand you're more than happy to throw isk at people with 100% trade alts, who create new accounts/identities to bypass security checks in MD, just because they earned 200 mill off a 1 bill bond and then 500 mill off a 2 bill bond and then expand to 10+ bill at once. If I wanted to, knowing the ins and outs of MD security checks, I could easily have scammed NOT using my main backed by the identities of all my alts, based on 2+ years of gaming and a reputation in-game as PvPer, Corp/Militia leader, etc...

Am I annoyed that my IPO failed because of the last 10% or so of funding? Definitely.
Will I be offering this IPO in future? If I don't sell the idea, then yes, but not advertised via MD.
Will I be laughing the next time you guys invest 10+ bill into some other venture based on some guy who can change his identity in the 1 day or so it takes to biomass his trade alt? Most definitely.

Pity...my intentions were not to scam, as the fact that some of my friends also wanted to invest, who have trusted me with far more isk than that during my time as their corp leader. But in the end I'll go run it myself once I have enough isk, while you're going to either get scammed or miss out on golden opportunities.

Regarding auditors, VV I stated because he took a fair amount of time to post in my thread (and my audit 1) and I assumed that would mean he'd be interested/have/make time for an audit. And nothing against VV, but he's not rich enough to have screwed me over on the business plan by buying the items I'd have pointed out before going through with the audit. I didn't trust any others of the reputed auditors to do that except for Ji Sama, but he didn't post so wasn't on my radar at the time.

Varcynal Risk
Gallente
The Craniac
Blazing Angels Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.17 09:07:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Ramingo


*snip*




Lame. Haters gonna hate.


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