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CCP Shadow


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.10 16:11:00 - [1]
 

With your help, CCP was able to put its new hardware and software solutions to the test in Jita, on September 5, 2010. The latest dev blog from CCP Explorer and CCP Yokai explains what was learned from hitting this milestone. You can read about it here.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2010.09.10 16:18:00 - [2]
 

\o/

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2010.09.10 16:22:00 - [3]
 

and also, hardware pron \o/

LordSwift
Caldari
The Riot Act
Sacra Cupola
Posted - 2010.09.10 16:22:00 - [4]
 

nice to see the improvements working. cant wait to see improvements in fleet fights for the big alliances. but alas i think it will be a long quest. You give players more room. they will only cram more in.
good work ccp

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2010.09.10 16:23:00 - [5]
 

Quote:
Hyper Threading disabled


Why is hyper threading so fail?

Josef Huffenpuff
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.10 16:26:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
Hyper Threading disabled


Why is hyper threading so fail?


Because it simulates a multiple core CPU and Eve is single threaded. Sheesh, where have you been ?

Estel Arador
Posted - 2010.09.10 16:49:00 - [7]
 

Sweet Smile

Dusty Meg
Posted - 2010.09.10 16:51:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Dusty Meg on 10/09/2010 16:50:45
Its always good to get posts about hardware :)
And what a milestone 200+ in jita is.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.10 16:54:00 - [9]
 

I was there for this. It was very cool and playable, even out in space. Grid load times at the peak were < 45 seconds for me. Seriously awesome job - I remember those deep dark days when Jita was simply unusable with only a fraction of the people there.

-Liang

Regat Kozovv
Caldari
Alcothology
Posted - 2010.09.10 17:13:00 - [10]
 

Still seems like you guys are trying to squeeze blood from a stone to an extent. While IPC improvements are still to be had, trying to wring every last bit out of a single core seems backwards from where computing is going.

I dare say EVE's load issues would be solved the moment you guys can load balance across cores, and across servers. Until that happens, I think you'll be making improvements, but never conclusively solving the problem.

T'Amber
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.09.10 17:15:00 - [11]
 

Our spahm will block out the sun.

Amy Garzan
Gallente
Posted - 2010.09.10 17:42:00 - [12]
 

Pretty Very Happy


POST MAH PICTURES!!!

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.09.10 17:54:00 - [13]
 

Do you guys intend to start replacing existing blades with these if this proves to have a similar effect on fleet fights that it has in Jita?

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.09.10 17:57:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Regat Kozovv
Still seems like you guys are trying to squeeze blood from a stone to an extent. While IPC improvements are still to be had, trying to wring every last bit out of a single core seems backwards from where computing is going.

I dare say EVE's load issues would be solved the moment you guys can load balance across cores, and across servers. Until that happens, I think you'll be making improvements, but never conclusively solving the problem.


This... My guess is their challenge in dynamic load balancing is probably due to legacy code more than anything else. CCP started work on EVE back in 2000, when most servers were single core and multicore PC's were unthinkable. Simply put, the server (and client) code needs to be rewritten or extended to take advantage of parallel processing, using a single core is wasting CPU resources and is inefficient.

Gil Danastre
Amarr
JAF-CO Exploration
Posted - 2010.09.10 18:24:00 - [15]
 

You guys have probably already thought of this, but have you considered developing a virtual hardware layer akin to how virtual machines work? For EVE, you could make a node think it's running single core, but the virtual layer below it managing the hardware is running clustered hardware with however much you want in horsepower and could reallocate the resources as needed, keeping the node "in the dark" and never think anything was different from before.

Aranial
Gallente
Empyrean Warriors
The Obsidian Front
Posted - 2010.09.10 18:29:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Aranial on 10/09/2010 18:32:44
Wahey to more Dev blogs *\o/*

oh and dribble over server hardware Laughing

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.10 18:30:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Originally by: Regat Kozovv
Still seems like you guys are trying to squeeze blood from a stone to an extent. While IPC improvements are still to be had, trying to wring every last bit out of a single core seems backwards from where computing is going.

I dare say EVE's load issues would be solved the moment you guys can load balance across cores, and across servers. Until that happens, I think you'll be making improvements, but never conclusively solving the problem.


This... My guess is their challenge in dynamic load balancing is probably due to legacy code more than anything else. CCP started work on EVE back in 2000, when most servers were single core and multicore PC's were unthinkable. Simply put, the server (and client) code needs to be rewritten or extended to take advantage of parallel processing, using a single core is wasting CPU resources and is inefficient.



While this is very true (there will be some great improvements from that), it's probably not as true as you think it is.

-Liang

Lan Staz
Posted - 2010.09.10 18:32:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Gil Danastre
You guys have probably already thought of this, but have you considered developing a virtual hardware layer akin to how virtual machines work? For EVE, you could make a node think it's running single core, but the virtual layer below it managing the hardware is running clustered hardware with however much you want in horsepower and could reallocate the resources as needed, keeping the node "in the dark" and never think anything was different from before.

Where can I get hold of the virtualisation software that does this? It sounds too good to be true.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2010.09.10 18:42:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Regat Kozovv
Still seems like you guys are trying to squeeze blood from a stone to an extent. While IPC improvements are still to be had, trying to wring every last bit out of a single core seems backwards from where computing is going.


Well ... I wouldn't call an improvement of 42% (2000+ compared to 1400) a wasted development. Very Happy

Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
Posted - 2010.09.10 19:55:00 - [20]
 

Is there any hope for improvements on the social side to make Jita less of a scumpit with that sort of population in local?

I'm talking about the many suggestions that have been made (filters, escalating fees for people who speak very frequently, that sort of thing) to make local more useful and not just an endless wave of scam spam.

Stick Cult
Posted - 2010.09.10 19:55:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Stick Cult on 10/09/2010 19:56:02
EXCUSE ME YOKAI AND EXPLORER!!

Where are my pictures of you guys and the cluster? We got blade ****, but I want to see the rest! Very Happy

edit: Size 6 is a bit big, isn't it...

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.09.10 20:21:00 - [22]
 

Nice to see yet another blog about what is going on under the hood. I remember when going to Jita on a Sunday was considered nuts. These days, I jump or log in alts there most Sundays and it's never a problem.

Thanks for working with CSM in trying to get adequate participation for the Jita load testing.

Internet Knight
The Kobayashi Maru
Posted - 2010.09.10 20:35:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Josef Huffenpuff
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
Hyper Threading disabled


Why is hyper threading so fail?


Because it simulates a multiple core CPU and Eve is single threaded. Sheesh, where have you been ?
It still seems rather fail to me... EVE itself might be single-threaded, but I doubt the underlying OS is too. So... try to throw every background process possible off of the core EVE is using and you end up with a win scenario.

Although the clear solution (if not already the case) is to make even a single node multithreaded.

Perhaps someone from Intel can explain the reasoning on leaving one of their champion technologies turned off?

DmitryEKT
Clandestine.
Posted - 2010.09.10 20:40:00 - [24]
 

ok, so jita's over 2000, but the real question is, when will jita be over 9000?

Grez
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
Posted - 2010.09.10 21:16:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Internet Knight
Originally by: Josef Huffenpuff
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
Hyper Threading disabled


Why is hyper threading so fail?


Because it simulates a multiple core CPU and Eve is single threaded. Sheesh, where have you been ?
It still seems rather fail to me... EVE itself might be single-threaded, but I doubt the underlying OS is too. So... try to throw every background process possible off of the core EVE is using and you end up with a win scenario.

Although the clear solution (if not already the case) is to make even a single node multithreaded.

Perhaps someone from Intel can explain the reasoning on leaving one of their champion technologies turned off?


HyperThreading just allows the core to work on another thread if one has stalled. It doesn't speed anything up, and in-fact carries a lot of overhead if you're not using a VERY threaded application.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.09.10 21:21:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Marlenus
Is there any hope for improvements on the social side to make Jita less of a scumpit with that sort of population in local?

I'm talking about the many suggestions that have been made (filters, escalating fees for people who speak very frequently, that sort of thing) to make local more useful and not just an endless wave of scam spam.
Jita is player-chosen as the mega-mall. You might want to visit the other hubs?

The top regional market hubs are
  • Amarr VIII (Oris)
  • Jita IV - Moon 4
  • Dodixie IX - Moon 20
  • Rens VI - Moon 8
and the secondary regional market hubs are
  • Tash-Murkon Prime II - Moon 1
  • Hirtamon VII - Moon 5
  • Oursulaert III
  • Hek VIII - Moon 12
based on transaction totals.

Eli Strange
Amarr
Posted - 2010.09.10 21:30:00 - [27]
 

I love this company, and this is the main reason why I chose to stay on and play EVE Online. I was a little put off with learning curve, and have to wait sooo long to train for this game. However, the company is awesome and very player centered. Thank you.

Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.09.10 21:41:00 - [28]
 

Dear God, that's a small blade (I'm used to the 8000 series Sun blades, with four Quad-core AMDs - this was before Intel had an answer to HyperTransport btw).

Anyway, good to see that progress can still be made in a single-thread environment.

Since it was mentioned that you're working with IBM, are they also helping in a code review (either Eve itself, or Stackless)? I know they did similar work with both Linux and OpenSim, so inquiring about Stackless would probably whet their appetites. Wink

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.09.11 00:40:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Marlenus
Is there any hope for improvements on the social side to make Jita less of a scumpit with that sort of population in local?

I'm talking about the many suggestions that have been made (filters, escalating fees for people who speak very frequently, that sort of thing) to make local more useful and not just an endless wave of scam spam.
Jita is player-chosen as the mega-mall. You might want to visit the other hubs?

The top regional market hubs are
  • Amarr VIII (Oris)
  • Jita IV - Moon 4
  • Dodixie IX - Moon 20
  • Rens VI - Moon 8
and the secondary regional market hubs are
  • Tash-Murkon Prime II - Moon 1
  • Hirtamon VII - Moon 5
  • Oursulaert III
  • Hek VIII - Moon 12
based on transaction totals.


Hek 4tw

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.11 08:25:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Typhado3
Hek 4tw


Hek drives me up a wall because some numbnuts love putting their stuff up in the opposite station. EPIC FAIL GUYS, EPIC FAIL!

-Liang


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