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blankseplocked How to encourge people out of the npc-corps
 
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DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2010.09.10 07:54:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: DeBingJos on 10/09/2010 10:41:59
Note: this is not my idea, I read it in another topic as a little side remark. However I think it deserves a topic on its own.

There are 2 sorts of NPC-corps players can be in:
- The noob npc corp: once you leave you cannot join it again.
- The standard npc-corp you join when you leave your player corp.

My suggestion:

1. As long as you are in the noob npc-corp you cannot leave your empire. For example: if you are minmatar, you cannot leave minmatar space. Note that this nooob-npc-corp is NOT enlisted in Faction Warfare.

2. All the standard npc-corps are enlisted in faction warfare. This has several advantages. It is still safe in your empire's highsec but there are ample opportunities for pvp. If one does not like it they are free to look for a player corp or create one of their own.
It will also reinforce the smaller trade hubs and lessen the load on jita, creating better trading opportunities.

Tell me what you think! Suggestions and flames welcome Twisted Evil

Xorv
Posted - 2010.09.10 08:23:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: DeBingJos

2. All the standard npc-corps are enlisted in faction warfare. This has several advantages. It is still safe in your empire's highsec but there are ample opportunities for pvp. If one does not like it they are free to look for a player corp or create one of their own.
It will also reinforce the smaller trade hubs and lessen the load on jita, creating better trading opportunities.

Tell me what you think! Suggestions and flames welcome [:twisted:




I think your second is along the lines of what ought to be done, but I'd do it based on player standings and activity. If players want to be in an NPC corp paying 11% tax and doing industrial stuff in high sec I don't think they should be dragged into faction war. Those running level 4 combat missions though, yup I agree, should be consequences for that.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2010.09.10 08:23:00 - [3]
 

sounds good

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2010.09.10 08:30:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Xorv

I think your second is along the lines of what ought to be done, but I'd do it based on player standings and activity. If players want to be in an NPC corp paying 11% tax and doing industrial stuff in high sec I don't think they should be dragged into faction war. Those running level 4 combat missions though, yup I agree, should be consequences for that.


You can still do industrial stuff in highsec while in faction war without much risk. Remember that you can always join a player corp or create one of your own to lift any restrictions.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2010.09.10 08:34:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: DeBingJos

You can still do industrial stuff in highsec while in faction war without much risk. Remember that you can always join a player corp or create one of your own to lift any restrictions.


lol
forcing players out of NPC corps is exactly the purpose of the provided suggestion, so you say it would work perfectly?? Agree

it440
Caldari
OZ industries and Technology
Posted - 2010.09.10 08:38:00 - [6]
 

props,
i like the idea in general. how about the noob corp members can jump into other faction space but the navys come after you for being in thier space like you have a default negative standings for being a member of another faction, well i guess that would make it amarr/caldari enemies of gallante/minmatar so i dont know but sounds like something could work.

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2010.09.10 08:53:00 - [7]
 

Of course the implications of being in a noob/npc-corp should have to be well advertised ingame. Not just via a textbox which everybody just closes without reading. A cutscene or something would be nice the first time someone leave a startersystem.

Alara IonStorm
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.10 08:59:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: DeBingJos
Of course the implications of being in a noob/npc-corp should have to be well advertised ingame. Not just via a textbox which everybody just closes without reading. A cutscene or something would be nice the first time someone leave a startersystem.

And I will join faction warfare and be in a clocked aligned Nano Thrasher, Bang and Run!

Seriously War Target infiltrate eneamy hi sec all the time, I would become a noob fest. And if you think the players will have honor about it, well um there are gonna be a lot of new frig pilots wondering WTF!

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2010.09.10 09:05:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Alara IonStorm

And I will join faction warfare and be in a clocked aligned Nano Thrasher, Bang and Run!

Seriously War Target infiltrate eneamy hi sec all the time, I would become a noob fest. And if you think the players will have honor about it, well um there are gonna be a lot of new frig pilots wondering WTF!



And how is this different than a standard suicide gank? This is possible right now... Are you talking about highsec?

Alara IonStorm
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.10 09:27:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: DeBingJos

Are you talking about highsec?

Yes

Sure it will force them to a player corp quicker but they will not have time to get there toes wet!

I did not join a player corp for 2 months, I had a lot of fun tooling around, then I joined corps and it was different, a new style of play!

But if war targets offed me every time I did anything away from a station well, that would not be fun. Skill points and experience matter to PVP most new players need time!

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2010.09.10 09:39:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Alara IonStorm

Sure it will force them to a player corp quicker but they will not have time to get there toes wet!

I did not join a player corp for 2 months, I had a lot of fun tooling around, then I joined corps and it was different, a new style of play!

But if war targets offed me every time I did anything away from a station well, that would not be fun. Skill points and experience matter to PVP most new players need time!



Quote from eve wiki:
* Players in FW corporations are attacked by enemy Navy NPCs when entering high-security space belonging to either of their enemy factions.

Example: A player belonging to the Caldari State entering Gallente Federation or Minmatar Republic high-security space (0.5 and above) will be engaged by faction navies.

->
This means it will be very hard for the opposing faction to kill you in highsec. So I dont think this will be a big problem. Unless you enter lowsec, but let's be honest, lowsec is always dangerous.

Alara IonStorm
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.10 09:56:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: DeBingJos

This means it will be very hard for the opposing faction to kill you in highsec. So I dont think this will be a big problem. Unless you enter lowsec, but let's be honest, lowsec is always dangerous.

Not very faction navies don't scram, a 720mm Nano Cane or thrasher will make it through gate and take targets out quickly. Also if you can cloak from faction Navy them Noobs R Dead!

There is always a work around, I am just spit balling, you know someone is gonna spend days figuring this out, there are a lot of killmails at stake!

Plus a lot of faction warriors already get Hi Sec kills by skirting the Navy so there already is a foot in the door!

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2010.09.10 10:19:00 - [13]
 

You are right Alara IonStorm,

But imo it is not that big of a problem. CCP should warn new players about this and infor them they should find a player corp asap if they have problems with it...

Note: /me likes your snipa skillz

Alara IonStorm
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.10 10:25:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 10/09/2010 10:26:45
Originally by: DeBingJos

Note: /me likes your snipa skillz

Me too

I like your idea but I have one problem with it, the ease of killing someone with no experience and no skill. Once they hit 2 months it becomes a new game!

Since you can never rejoin the noob corp make this true for every other NPC Corp and put a two month timer before your put in a non noob NPC corp and...

Supported!

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2010.09.10 10:41:00 - [15]
 

Sounds good, I'll adjust the original post.

Mindnut
Posted - 2010.09.10 11:44:00 - [16]
 

There is an issue you haven't really considered here.

I've seen a lot of peaple who played in npc corps for more than a year. I was out looking for members and I asked this 1,5 yo guy if he wants to join a player corp. He said - no english :(
What about peaople who have problems with english language? Lets say they find a corp that's formed of natives but something goes wrong and that person has to leave them. I don't think there should be any more dissadvantages then having more tax to pay.

On the other hand, EVE is a multiplayer game and there isn't much you can do in the game on your own anyway. The mechanism which would be forcing noobs to join the game might at the same time force loners to leave the game due to the limitted content and restrictions. I'm not sure exactly how this would work out.

Moose Burger
Posted - 2010.09.10 14:23:00 - [17]
 

Its very simple to make people leave npc corp

1) Remove wardec. Make it difficult to wardec.Make it such that you need at least as many POS's , and at least 100% of the size of the opponent to commit a wardec.

2) Remove "its ok to shoot friends if they are in the same corps" Corps like EVE University has insane ammounts of gankers, who gank new players who start getting into the game.

shady trader
Posted - 2010.09.10 14:32:00 - [18]
 

There is also the fact that CCP have made it clear time and again that one of the purposes of the NPC corps is for players that don't want to be involved in wars.

Since its easy to get an alt to deliver a fitted ship to a location and NPC navies don't pod. It would be child's play for an experienced player to get armed frigate (possibly a tech 2 version) with a probe launcher in enemy space. probe down missions in dead space locations or other spots were navies don't go and have fun killing the newbies when they are doing level 1 missions.

Monte Shill
Posted - 2010.09.10 16:42:00 - [19]
 

Quote:
Tell me what you think!

That your angry you can't do jack without CONCORD retaliating against a small percentage of the player base that doesn't really care for getting into ****ing matches. My main character has been in an NPC corp (best source of chat enterainment, and I can't be screwed over like PC corps can) for over a year and a half, because I don't find it fun to be constantly disrupted with wardecs and pod destruction ect increasing the long, boring ass grind called a skill que that I have zero effect on outside putting a skill in and not loosing +5s. In other MMOs, I can determine how fast (WoW makes it to easy) or slow (EQ1, CoH took me 4+ years to reach level cap because I had fun) I want to get to the destination. In EVE, its a journey of artificial ******ation to advance set on cruise control with a couple of kids in the in the backseat while stuck in 2000 miles of grid lock; a game of balancing mismatched attribute requirements (you give up one group, slowing down the other. you cannot win until the next remap when your pre-apoc by 3 months) and it is certainly not enjoyable to be given a golden shower by someone ****ing on my parade so they can sockfluff their ego over pixels and my time invested is set back weeks of training a really long que. In due time I may leave an NPC corp, but I don't want to feel like I was forced to play in a sandbox a way I don't want to play.

Alara IonStorm
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.10 18:29:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 10/09/2010 18:31:29
Originally by: Monte Shill
Quote:
Tell me what you think!

That your angry you can't do jack without CONCORD retaliating against a small percentage of the player base that doesn't really care for getting into ****ing matches. My main character has been in an NPC corp (best source of chat enterainment, and I can't be screwed over like PC corps can) for over a year and a half, because I don't find it fun to be constantly disrupted with wardecs and pod destruction ect increasing the long, boring ass grind called a skill que that I have zero effect on outside putting a skill in and not loosing +5s. In other MMOs, I can determine how fast (WoW makes it to easy) or slow (EQ1, CoH took me 4+ years to reach level cap because I had fun) I want to get to the destination. In EVE, its a journey of artificial ******ation to advance set on cruise control with a couple of kids in the in the backseat while stuck in 2000 miles of grid lock; a game of balancing mismatched attribute requirements (you give up one group, slowing down the other. you cannot win until the next remap when your pre-apoc by 3 months) and it is certainly not enjoyable to be given a golden shower by someone ****ing on my parade so they can sockfluff their ego over pixels and my time invested is set back weeks of training a really long que. In due time I may leave an NPC corp, but I don't want to feel like I was forced to play in a sandbox a way I don't want to play.

THERE GONNA TAKE MY NPC CORP I AM SO MAD THAT THIS IS EVEN BEIN BROUGHT UP ON A FORUM THAT I'M GONNA RAGE!!!11 IN A GIANT WALL-O-TEXT!!!11

Chill out it's a features forum dude, if you don't agree say so, don't go batsh*t insane!

ChrisIsherwood
Posted - 2010.09.10 18:51:00 - [21]
 

It would seem a lot easier to program for CCP to just cancel the subscription of anyone who does not leave the NPC corp.

The number of people in NPC corps who don't voluntarily leave yet who would continue to subscribe for a significant period of time after being forced out would be low in my opinion. Considering that any of these suggestions, while making EVE more EVE-like, will lower CCP revenues and thus the number of developers, I think the solution with the least developer effort would be preferable.

Dmoney3788
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.09.10 20:03:00 - [22]
 

At least this way you're not invulnerable to being popped, anywhere, like it should be. I never understood how NPC corps part of a faction were perfectly safe roaming their faction's enemies territory.

This will hopefully make it easier to hunt down NPC corp macro miners, as well as fulfilling the MMO game role even more.

+1

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2010.09.10 20:34:00 - [23]
 

FW is so horribly broken it is not even funny, it is not something I would even recommend to a person willing to join much less force it down some ones throat.

The stick is the worst possible tool to use if the goal is to change human behaviour, works a treat on some animals but even they usually react poorly after a while.
Find out what it is that keeps people in NPC corps and out-do it for player corps, by using the carrot you'll find the people affected are a lot more receptive.

Keep in mind that "PvP" is by no means restricted to combat; mining, marketeeing, exploration etc. are all competitive in the same way and often even more brutal than the random noob-gank.

What of the casual gamer that logs in for an hour or two after work for a mission or two to start off the weekend?

My suggestions:
Sticks
- Limit personal wallet size to x Billion when in NPC corp (overflow still there in limbo, inaccessible until NPC status ends).
- Restrict number of S&I slots usable when in NPC corp (less than allowed by skills), and
- Double or triple security rating penalties when in NPC corp (too many "PvP'ers" hiding in NPC corps when pirating).
Carrots
- Guarantee 1 S&I slot available no matter what when in player corp.
- Allow buying complete fits and or batches from market, list maintained on corp level (isn't in game yet but much asked for in general), and
- Update corporate interface with more useful stuff like a killmail listing and such.

See where I am coming from? Make the player corp experience so damn good that only a fool or the casual player would say no to it.

Goose99
Posted - 2010.09.10 21:43:00 - [24]
 

Forcing people out of npc corps is a thinly disguised attempt at forcing others to play their sandbox your way. How is it your business what corp they join with their paid subscription? If you pay their monthly fees, then you get to decide.Rolling Eyes

Bhattran
Posted - 2010.09.10 22:43:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Forcing people out of npc corps is a thinly disguised attempt at forcing others to play their sandbox your way. How is it your business what corp they join with their paid subscription? If you pay their monthly fees, then you get to decide.Rolling Eyes


^This is basically what I think. Bored doing what you do and not having fun playing as you do you seek to force other players to play as you do or play to make your chosen method of play more fun. Rather than HTFU or something to that effect you need to have a boost to your play style because it isn't good enough for you.

If people/CCP really wanted to encourage players out of NPC corps they'd do the following:

A) Let players choose which NPC corp they go into/return to, if you join a PC then quit instead of getting dumped in Corp B allow them to return to Corp A where they started. It wouldn't make sense to let them join other faction's corps but within their own why not? As it is if you leave your NPC corp and have a horrible experience and quit it you are dumped in the pool of corp quitters/rejects where the NPC corp has 'more' new players the 2nd NPC one is more full of jaded players.

B) Letting players join in on NPC corp chats, plenty of players do already with alts, why not let them keep speaking with their old 'members', again only within your own faction, might even limit it to the NPC corp you were in. This allows communication to old 'friends' and if the PC experience is so 'wonderful' they can speak about it to NPC members they were a 'part of' not too long ago.

C) Huge overhaul of all PC roles so that players and CEO/directors have greater control of who has permission to do what and players have a better understanding of what is permitted. I'm speaking of things like controlling who gets to shoot who in a corp, how taxes get implemented etc. Many complaints of PC are war decs some people just don't want to deal with them for any number of reasons, getting screwed by some other player (taxes/politics/getting killed by another 'corp' member), no benefit of leaving the NPC corp for what they do in game.

D) Revision of war decs, fees, how often, mechanics to 'bribe' your way out of them etc.


General Domination
Posted - 2010.09.11 08:03:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: General Domination on 11/09/2010 08:03:46
Dear CCP,

this idea could even harm new players, so I canīt support that.

TharOkha
Posted - 2010.09.11 09:42:00 - [27]
 

You cannot forcing people to do what you want to do... If you are PvPer go to low sec, null sec and fight each other. Noob killing, miner killing is not PvP but PvC (Player versus Coward). Rolling Eyes

Alara IonStorm
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.11 10:08:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: TharOkha
but PvC (Player versus Coward). Rolling Eyes

Sir you made my day!

Laughing

Maldurleon
Posted - 2010.09.11 14:57:00 - [29]
 

MMOG and PVP don't mix. For a great PVP experience the game needs to be very simple such as CHESS, TENNIS, FOOT RACING, CAR RACING. I don't get how you can call MMOG combat PVP. It's CVC character versus character.

When some jackass blasts my frigate that was obviously afk with his Tengu this is not PVP and it just makes NPC cores more attractive option with their often hilarious and revolting chat channels lack of demoralising mismanagement and inept planning/cohesion as found in player cores. Player cores are very often populated by players who don't even interract in game just sit in the corp chat not chatting and just 'not being in an NPC core'

On one hand FW was introduced and on the otherhand players who enjoy the NPC/FACTION experience are being told that is not ok.

If Eve was mine to control I'd have rankings and listings of all the NPC cores for their populations to fight over in order to boost their core to preeminence.

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2010.09.11 17:26:00 - [30]
 

An answer to some arguments:

1. This does not force people into pvp. You are still free to do in your empire as you wish. If you want to run missions, manufacture, trade, .... This only restricts you to a part of the universe. (1/4 of EMPIRE space) You can still go into low of nullsec.

2. About imposing a playstyle to other players; I feel people in npc-corp have an unfair advantage as it is right now. Wardec immunity in this game is an advantage that is not to be underestimated. Please keep in mind that I do not do this to have a lot of Noob targets. (Check my killboard at battleclinic, I am no L33T pvp'er, I suck at pvp but I enjoy it.)

3. We will miss our chat-channel: You do know there are hundreds of very good channels for all purposes, most if not all better then npc-chat.

I do not mind people not agreeing with me, but please give some good arguments as to why you don't agree instead of just emo-raging. I found my first good corp almost 3 months ingame and it changed eve totally. Gameplay in an npc-corp is not comparable to a good player-corp.


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