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Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.01.11 11:05:00 - [121]
 

Edited by: Codo Yagari on 11/01/2011 11:11:30

Originally by: Kazzzi
So you would consider our struggle noble if we set everyone we shot red just before shooting them?

I might consider you more noble if you didn't kill every man, his wife, children and dog because they happen to be flying in Amarr space. You're just too aggressive. NRDS or NBSI is not just a technical matter of RoE and setting standings, it's a mentality and philosophy.

Originally by: Kazzzi
NBSI works perfectly fine as long as you have active diplomats and a policy to set those truly innocent blue upon request.

Sure, if you dont have any scruples about murdering the innocent, it would appear it works perfectly fine.

Originally by: Kazzzi
It's a misconception that when somebody slaps on that NRDS label that they are automatically more ethical.

Actually, if you take a closer look, you'll see that this is wrong. When you practise NBSI you basically have declared war on every single unknown entity and any possible new capsuleer in New Eden. It's extremely hostile.

With NRDS, you send out a statement to unknown entities saying "We come in peace". The NRDS/NBSI topic IS a philosophical one.


Calfis
Amarr
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.01.11 15:20:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 11/01/2011 11:11:30

Actually, if you take a closer look, you'll see that this is wrong. When you practise NBSI you basically have declared war on every single unknown entity and any possible new capsuleer in New Eden. It's extremely hostile.

With NRDS, you send out a statement to unknown entities saying "We come in peace". The NRDS/NBSI topic IS a philosophical one.




Actually, characterizing NBSI as a declaration of war against all neutrals is off as well. Rather it is more of a declaration for all neutrals to safe up and get out of the way if they don't want a fight. I remember FREE Explorer roaming thru my space when I was an Atlas renter. Based on previous experience and intelligence, I stopped engaging the Angel pirates in the system and warped to a POS immediately and they just filtered thru to the next system.

When an NBSI entity declares war upon you, you will know it.Twisted Evil As CVA found out last year in Providence, there is a difference between mutual sparring and war. Having 10 ships roaming around Providence shooting at random is much friendlier than hundreds coming to destroy your infrastructure.

P.S. My previous post was as intended, I wanted to set that last sentence apart.

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.01.11 21:50:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: Codo Yagari on 11/01/2011 21:59:01

Originally by: Calfis
Actually, characterizing NBSI as a declaration of war against all neutrals is off as well. Rather it is more of a declaration for all neutrals to safe up and get out of the way if they don't want a fight.


I think the common relaxed decently behaving capsuleer of New Eden have every right to roam freely in space, and shouldn't have to "safe up" anywhere, for anyone. The NBSI mentality you are describing is a declaration of war against freedom and peace. It sounds very much like a ravaging band of outlaws that has forced the submission of a lone village out on the plains. Whenever the band comes roaming through the village, for whatever purpose, the villagers will (probably) be fine as long as they go back and hide in their house, until you've left. Hardly an honourable fashion of life.

If the fact of the matter is that you are really not interested in the attributes of civilization and common respect that stems from decency, well, please just say so to make it clear for us all.

Actually, on second thougt, I just realized you compared yourself to Angel pirates, so please ignore the above request.

Calfis
Amarr
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.01.11 22:55:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 11/01/2011 21:59:01
I think the common relaxed decently behaving capsuleer of New Eden have every right to roam freely in space, and shouldn't have to "safe up" anywhere, for anyone. The NBSI mentality you are describing is a declaration of war against freedom and peace.



Is this right to roam freely in anyone's space defined by some overarching authority that is sovereign over all nation-states in New Eden? Perhaps there is some United Nations/Empires body that I am unaware of that is authoring binding resolutions on the matter?

As far as I am concerned The Initiative, Morsus Mihi, and IT Alliance etc. are sovereign entities much like the four empires. Just because they allow any pilots into their space doesn't mean we have to as well. They dictate RoE in their space and we shall do so in ours.

Originally by: Codo Yagari

It sounds very much like a ravaging band of outlaws that has forced the submission of a lone village out on the plains. Whenever the band comes roaming through the village, for whatever purpose, the villagers will (probably) be fine as long as they go back and hide in their house, until you've left. Hardly an honourable fashion of life.

If the fact of the matter is that you are really not interested in the attributes of civilization and common respect that stems from decency, well, please just say so to make it clear for us all.


Nope, more like the ancient Romans of Earth moving through territory that has yet to be annexed into the Empire. If the locals pay tribute and swear loyalty we may yet set them blue.

Sometimes civilization must be built upon the ashes of savage villages.Wink

Originally by: Codo Yagari

Actually, on second thougt, I just realized you compared yourself to Angel pirates, so please ignore the above request.


I noted that while I was engaged in combat with Angel pirates in a system that I occupied by paying tribute to Atlas Alliance I was interrupted by a roaming fleet from my current corporation and I safed up like a smart neutral should since Atlas renters were neutral to FREE Explorer. This is the kind of behavior all pilots should exercise when in space that might be set upon by NBSI entities.

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.01.11 23:24:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Calfis
Is this right to roam freely in anyone's space defined by some overarching authority that is sovereign over all nation-states in New Eden? Perhaps there is some United Nations/Empires body that I am unaware of that is authoring binding resolutions on the matter?

Well, without going into too much detail, I believe some of us have an inner voice that guides us, and help us feel for such things as "freedom", "decency" and even "justice".

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.01.12 01:50:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari

With NRDS, you send out a statement to unknown entities saying "We come in peace". The NRDS/NBSI topic IS a philosophical one.




Not when the NRDS entity in question are in fact D-bags. Four letters aren't going to change that.

Calfis
Amarr
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.01.12 05:30:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
Originally by: Calfis
Is this right to roam freely in anyone's space defined by some overarching authority that is sovereign over all nation-states in New Eden? Perhaps there is some United Nations/Empires body that I am unaware of that is authoring binding resolutions on the matter?

Well, without going into too much detail, I believe some of us have an inner voice that guides us, and help us feel for such things as "freedom", "decency" and even "justice".


So there is no legitimate authority that surpasses the sovereign authority granted to alliances under CONCORD Assembly sov mechanics.

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.01.12 12:36:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Calfis
Originally by: Codo Yagari
Originally by: Calfis
Is this right to roam freely in anyone's space defined by some overarching authority that is sovereign over all nation-states in New Eden? Perhaps there is some United Nations/Empires body that I am unaware of that is authoring binding resolutions on the matter?

Well, without going into too much detail, I believe some of us have an inner voice that guides us, and help us feel for such things as "freedom", "decency" and even "justice".


So there is no legitimate authority that surpasses the sovereign authority granted to alliances under CONCORD Assembly sov mechanics.

Well, I guess that depends on how religious you are. :)

Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.01.12 13:54:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
Originally by: Calfis
Is this right to roam freely in anyone's space defined by some overarching authority that is sovereign over all nation-states in New Eden? Perhaps there is some United Nations/Empires body that I am unaware of that is authoring binding resolutions on the matter?

Well, without going into too much detail, I believe some of us have an inner voice that guides us, and help us feel for such things as "freedom", "decency" and even "justice".


You describe Ushra'Khan perfectly. Relatively peaceful NRDS in three of the empires, NBSI in the one where our people are held in slavery and oppression. We care more for the overwhelming numbers of lives ground under the Amarrian boot-heel than for some capsuleers who choose to operate within and thus support the Amarrian Empire.

Your morality seems to begin and end with tin minority of humans who are pod pilots. For us they're the last concern. Who, then is more concerned with justice, decency and freedom?

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.01.13 06:39:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: Codo Yagari on 13/01/2011 06:39:45

Not only Amarrians and those who support slavery fly in the space controlled by pro-slavery Amarr, the civilizations of New Eden are quite mingled.

If you enforced NRDS to fight against those that enslave, it is one matter, but reality is that you kill many innocent by assuming NBSI. You, U'K, are trying to kill a mosquito with a shotgun. The collateral damage you cause is immense, and in a cause where you would have many friends (I personally find the cause of maintaining individual freedom just), you instead make enemies, as history has proven. Wouldn't you agree that it is very hard for you to make friends? At least friends that attempt to live by the NRDS code, and uphold some fashion of order.

If you had a genuine interest in the good health of New Eden, not only would you fight against slavery, but also the immense large proportion of capsuleers that practise piracy. I would say that you have been blinded by hate so that any other cause, however just it may be, will fade to nothingness in your eyes when compared to your main objective. However, slavery is not the only problem of this galaxy, and I do not agree that it is the biggest one either.

When you clean a very dirty room, you start with the biggest mess first, and then move on to clean up the smaller issues. And piracy, NBSI, and indeed the extreme peril of moving into areas covering more than half of the galaxy, where you will be shot down on sight for no reason at all, this is the biggest problem, and where my own personal focus lies. As I said, I am no enemy of the fight for freedom, a right I believe we all have as humans, but your ways of NBSI and the accompanying crudeness and misdirected violence make you very hard to work with indeed.

Argus Xen
Minmatar
Adventurers
Posted - 2011.01.13 08:39:00 - [131]
 

Although I'm a little concerned about the ease with which this noble initiative can be tiped into a method of dealing with the coallition members' political opponents, I want you to know, Codo, that the space bards fully support your cause. We are not an official group and don't have considerable assets, but our ways follow the same path as yours, and we will be glad to spread the word among the newcoming capsuleers to guide them down the right path.
Not only may your politics prevent more pirates from scourging New Eden, but, should the Null-sec corporations accept NRDS terms and support law in their realms, these sovereign regions may well become trading hubs that will bring prosperity to their owners.

Peace to you, fellow New Edians. May the wisdom of the Old guide you.

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.01.13 10:27:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 13/01/2011 06:39:45

Not only Amarrians and those who support slavery fly in the space controlled by pro-slavery Amarr, the civilizations of New Eden are quite mingled.


Of course, which is why we continuously seek out those who share our ideals who we may potentially run across in free-fire zones and make every attempt at negotiating positive relations beforehand. We're quite pro-active with diplomacy, whereas a universal NRDS entities method of diplomacy may possibly consist of nothing more than checking red boxes.

We take our standings very seriously and have a very detailed ROE. We do not abide by forced standing enclosurism. This has often angered allies in our long history, but we maintain our principles. We will not set reds without sufficient cause. Universal NRDS may not promote forced standings enclosurism, but it does tolerate it.

You may choose to ignore politics and consider your extremely broad definition of piracy to be of more importance than the war against slavery, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.01.13 12:40:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari

When you clean a very dirty room, you start with the biggest mess first, and then move on to clean up the smaller issues. And piracy, NBSI, and indeed the extreme peril of moving into areas covering more than half of the galaxy, where you will be shot down on sight for no reason at all, this is the biggest problem, and where my own personal focus lies. As I said, I am no enemy of the fight for freedom, a right I believe we all have as humans, but your ways of NBSI and the accompanying crudeness and misdirected violence make you very hard to work with indeed.


Capsuleer piracy is only a danger to capsuleers and their crews - who know what they're getting into. In our opinion every pod pilot is capable of looking after themselves. Our concern is for the rest of humanity and their freedom from ownership rather than the ease with which capsuleers move freely.
Basically we disagree on what is the 'biggest mess' because we care more for the suffering of those who cannot help themselves to the same extent that the lowliest of capsuleers can, while you care more for protecting a minority group often seen as 'demi-gods'.

Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.01.14 16:05:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Kazzzi
Originally by: Codo Yagari
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 13/01/2011 06:39:45

Not only Amarrians and those who support slavery fly in the space controlled by pro-slavery Amarr, the civilizations of New Eden are quite mingled.


Of course, which is why we continuously seek out those who share our ideals who we may potentially run across in free-fire zones and make every attempt at negotiating positive relations beforehand. We're quite pro-active with diplomacy, whereas a universal NRDS entities method of diplomacy may possibly consist of nothing more than checking red boxes.

We take our standings very seriously and have a very detailed ROE. We do not abide by forced standing enclosurism. This has often angered allies in our long history, but we maintain our principles. We will not set reds without sufficient cause. Universal NRDS may not promote forced standings enclosurism, but it does tolerate it.

You may choose to ignore politics and consider your extremely broad definition of piracy to be of more importance than the war against slavery, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.


Kazzzi, why the hostilities between you (UK) and those of us in the Great Wildlands NRDS community? I recently moved in with my corp and do not know the whole story, but I do believe we have far greater use of flying together (at least in GW) then we do flying against each other. I would like to hear your take on this.

Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.01.14 16:23:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Kazzzi
Originally by: Codo Yagari
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 13/01/2011 06:39:45

Not only Amarrians and those who support slavery fly in the space controlled by pro-slavery Amarr, the civilizations of New Eden are quite mingled.


Of course, which is why we continuously seek out those who share our ideals who we may potentially run across in free-fire zones and make every attempt at negotiating positive relations beforehand. We're quite pro-active with diplomacy, whereas a universal NRDS entities method of diplomacy may possibly consist of nothing more than checking red boxes.

We take our standings very seriously and have a very detailed ROE. We do not abide by forced standing enclosurism. This has often angered allies in our long history, but we maintain our principles. We will not set reds without sufficient cause. Universal NRDS may not promote forced standings enclosurism, but it does tolerate it.

You may choose to ignore politics and consider your extremely broad definition of piracy to be of more importance than the war against slavery, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.


Kazzzi, why the hostilities between you (UK) and those of us in the Great Wildlands NRDS community? I recently moved in with my corp and do not know the whole story, but I do believe we have far greater use of flying together (at least in GW) then we do flying against each other. I would like to hear your take on this.


Oh wow that's just asking for drama to discuss that here. It's a long and twisted tale.

Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.01.14 16:31:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Borza Slavak
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Kazzzi
Originally by: Codo Yagari
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 13/01/2011 06:39:45

Not only Amarrians and those who support slavery fly in the space controlled by pro-slavery Amarr, the civilizations of New Eden are quite mingled.


Of course, which is why we continuously seek out those who share our ideals who we may potentially run across in free-fire zones and make every attempt at negotiating positive relations beforehand. We're quite pro-active with diplomacy, whereas a universal NRDS entities method of diplomacy may possibly consist of nothing more than checking red boxes.

We take our standings very seriously and have a very detailed ROE. We do not abide by forced standing enclosurism. This has often angered allies in our long history, but we maintain our principles. We will not set reds without sufficient cause. Universal NRDS may not promote forced standings enclosurism, but it does tolerate it.

You may choose to ignore politics and consider your extremely broad definition of piracy to be of more importance than the war against slavery, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.


Kazzzi, why the hostilities between you (UK) and those of us in the Great Wildlands NRDS community? I recently moved in with my corp and do not know the whole story, but I do believe we have far greater use of flying together (at least in GW) then we do flying against each other. I would like to hear your take on this.


Oh wow that's just asking for drama to discuss that here. It's a long and twisted tale.


I do not know it, but even so, I think it is regrettable. I would very much like to see us on the same side in this region, which sees enough fighting as it is. It is genuinely in both our interests.

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.01.14 18:57:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Horizonist
I think it is regrettable.


I agree it is, feel free to contact me anytime to discuss it.

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.01.31 10:49:00 - [138]
 

Just to make clear, the NRDS Coalition does not work with entities that practise a wide spread NBSI policy.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.01.31 11:26:00 - [139]
 

Just by curiosity, can you define "wide spread NBSI policy" ?

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.02.01 11:59:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Lyn Farel
Just by curiosity, can you define "wide spread NBSI policy" ?


Ah, yes, that was a reference to the Ushra'Khan.
But in general, the NRDS Coalition does not work with anyone who practises NBSI.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.02.01 15:27:00 - [141]
 

Thank you for your answer.

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.02.08 11:59:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Argus Xen
Although I'm a little concerned about the ease with which this noble initiative can be tiped into a method of dealing with the coallition members' political opponents, I want you to know, Codo, that the space bards fully support your cause. We are not an official group and don't have considerable assets, but our ways follow the same path as yours, and we will be glad to spread the word among the newcoming capsuleers to guide them down the right path.
Not only may your politics prevent more pirates from scourging New Eden, but, should the Null-sec corporations accept NRDS terms and support law in their realms, these sovereign regions may well become trading hubs that will bring prosperity to their owners.

Peace to you, fellow New Edians. May the wisdom of the Old guide you.


Your words warm, because the only way for NRDS to actually become a philosophy to be reckoned with, is if those that are truly interested in peace and civilization, work together.

For New Eden! o7

Harlekin Simplex
Adeptus Quinta
Posted - 2011.02.15 15:50:00 - [143]
 

Friends, Romans and countrymen, lend me your ears.

I just read through most of the posts regarding NBSI vs. NRDS an d just came up with a single comment:

At the end it just always comes down to money...

From my point of view NBSI is just a synonym for greed.
Any capsuleer that has his roots in such a mental setup will NEVER EVER be able to understand what the true gist of NRDS is all about. No point in arguing.
He/She will always find good reasons why NBSI is way better than NRDS, just to keep his/her personal 'profit' or state of living as high as possible. That still holds true even if his/her corp has a so called 'communistic' structure.
But what is more important and disruptive for New Eden is that those Sovereigns part the universe into 'us' and 'them', meaning 'we' are good and the 'others' are evil.
That kind of thinking is the same disease that actually destroys the home world of mankind as well. Yet another similarity one can find between EVE and real live.

I had my personal share of NBSI and combat already. Five years into EVE taught me how to fight for my own profit while waving the flag of my corp and alliance. Eventually I found out what the price is for all those ships blown apart during the fights for nothing else but territorial sovereignity and the 'right' to plunder the conquered ressorces just to build more and bigger ships that could be blown to pieces as well.

All those NBSI worshipers are victims to 'panem et circenses'.
They have given up their birthright of political involvement. The mighty leaders of those NBSI Corps and Alliances have long found out that giving out cheap food and entertainment, "bread and circuses", would be the most effective way to rise to power.

But EVE is not just PvP and world domination.
It is simply not just that more than 60% of our 0.0 Universe is claimed by such a violent and enslaving mindset.

If we can change New Eden now, there will be hope for mankind as well.

Morituri te salutant
Harlekin

Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.02.16 11:17:00 - [144]
 


NRDS, and indeed NBSI, are meaningless terms in of themselves. There may well be those who call themselves NRDS, but if they set everyone red then it's hardly in the spirit of peace and co-operation. UK is likely the worst case of this, but SF and CVA also share similar faults. There are NBSI alliances that are more aimed towards peace and co-operation than some who claim to be NRDS.

You certainly need a greater foundation than these RoE to define a true movement within New Eden.

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.02.17 11:03:00 - [145]
 

Edited by: Codo Yagari on 17/02/2011 11:03:17

Originally by: Xina Tutor

NRDS, and indeed NBSI, are meaningless terms in of themselves. There may well be those who call themselves NRDS, but if they set everyone red then it's hardly in the spirit of peace and co-operation. UK is likely the worst case of this, but SF and CVA also share similar faults. There are NBSI alliances that are more aimed towards peace and co-operation than some who claim to be NRDS.

You certainly need a greater foundation than these RoE to define a true movement within New Eden.


As have been discussed several times previously in this thread already, maintaining an NRDS policy is much more than just a RoE policy. It is a philosophy towards live, that one does not attack neutrals and strangers per default. I agree that some of the dominant NRDS groups are not perfect, but fact remains, they aim to act peacefully by default. NBSI aims to act with agression per defualt. I would think this is apparent, that it is more than a RoE. In a very broad sense I would even dare to be so bold to say that NRDS and NBSI is the same as order and chaos, good and evil, love and hate.

Teutonii
Viriette MicroLabs
Posted - 2011.02.17 15:37:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
...In a very broad sense I would even dare to be so bold to say that NRDS and NBSI is the same as order and chaos, good and evil, love and hate.

I understand that these terms are designed to be as all-encompassing and as broad as possible but they have the potential to unintentionally provoke reaction. "Good" and "evil" can be so inflamitory.

Perhaps you might like to consider the terms 'proactive' and 'reactive'.

It's clear that both NBSI and NRDS (and indeed the recently coined "practical discretion" as used by EL-G) deal with the notion of an individual's or corporation's self preservation.

This single issue - security - is addressed very differently, though and I agree with Mr Yagari that it is a state of mind, a philosophy that decides which option is chosen.

NBSI is 'proactive'. It deals with the potential and unknown threats. "Attack is best form of defense", and so on.

NRDS is 'reactive'. It is only once a threat has identified itself through words and actions, the appropriate negative standings are applied and further action is taken accordingly.

Personally, I'm more comfortable with the NRDS case, though I fully understand the concerns of those who don't want to wait until after the event to apply a red sticker to an individual or corporation for future reference.

Teutonii
CEO. Viriette MicroLabs

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.02.17 17:40:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Teutonii


Personally, I'm more comfortable with the NRDS case, though I fully understand the concerns of those who don't want to wait until after the event to apply a red sticker to an individual or corporation for future reference.




Often this latter argument is made by very cowardly pilots who fear this spectre of sudden assault by "neutrals" leading to destruction of their vessel but I have say in my experience a strong and confident individual captain will rarely place themselves into a position where such things are likely to result in loss. Yes "neutrals" will sometimes reveal themselves as enemies with attempt at surprise but reality is such crass methodology cloaks weakness more often than not.

When "neutrals" attack Free Captains of the Star Fraction our comrades are fully authorized to return deadly fire in defense of their ships and more often than not this leads to the aggressors added to the red list as well as reduced to tumbling wreckage. The "book-keeping" as such is simply posting of aggression logs in the diplomatic forums so formal standings alternation can be concluded.

What it does achieve (and here is one of the strongest advantages of NRDS as an ROE) is to establish moral certainty in the conduct of our wars and combat actions. When we shoot our reds we know they deserve it. Their organizations took hostile action or otherwise invited violence by their decisions and our captains know they are fighting for a reason that makes sense - not simply to feed the demons of capsuleer dementia or satisfy a hungry call-centre killboard culture.


Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.02.18 11:17:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 17/02/2011 11:03:17

Originally by: Xina Tutor

NRDS, and indeed NBSI, are meaningless terms in of themselves. There may well be those who call themselves NRDS, but if they set everyone red then it's hardly in the spirit of peace and co-operation. UK is likely the worst case of this, but SF and CVA also share similar faults. There are NBSI alliances that are more aimed towards peace and co-operation than some who claim to be NRDS.

You certainly need a greater foundation than these RoE to define a true movement within New Eden.


As have been discussed several times previously in this thread already, maintaining an NRDS policy is much more than just a RoE policy. It is a philosophy towards live, that one does not attack neutrals and strangers per default. I agree that some of the dominant NRDS groups are not perfect, but fact remains, they aim to act peacefully by default. NBSI aims to act with agression per defualt. I would think this is apparent, that it is more than a RoE. In a very broad sense I would even dare to be so bold to say that NRDS and NBSI is the same as order and chaos, good and evil, love and hate.


I don't agree with the NRDS=Order/good and NBSI=chaos/evil as a given fact. It's not quite that simple. A lot more of New Eden was red to me while I was in a NRDS alliance than when I was in the NBSI/NRDS(in empire) northern coalition. And lets face it, the north is the biggest group of orderly carebears out there. The northern holdings make empire space looks positively hostile.

But certainly, I will not attack any without reason. Even with my enemies I tend to allow them the honour of the first shot. Unless it's Jade, of course ;)

Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.02.18 11:55:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari

As have been discussed several times previously in this thread already, maintaining an NRDS policy is much more than just a RoE policy. It is a philosophy towards live, that one does not attack neutrals and strangers per default.


To some people.
We don't romanticise Rules of Engagements. They are simply tools, means towards an end.
Having your entire philosophy consist of a RoE seems laughably simplistic, even to me.

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.02.18 13:27:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: Codo Yagari on 18/02/2011 13:27:52

Originally by: Borza Slavak
To some people.
We don't romanticise Rules of Engagements. They are simply tools, means towards an end.
Having your entire philosophy consist of a RoE seems laughably simplistic, even to me.

It is indeed quite simple. The NRDS Coalition strives for peace and relaxed, civilized order. Something that is impossible to attain if you conduct NBSI, since that in fact would make you the agressor, and the one that relieves any situation involving unknown entities a chance peace.

It doesnt have to be more complicated than this. How complicated is it to want peace and harmony? Hypothetically, if all were practising NRDS and observing a decent philosophy of showing respect, it would bring about a fairly peaceful environment. If everyone was practising NBSI, I think that it's obvious peace would be much harder to come by.


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