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Zilberfrid
Posted - 2010.09.01 14:39:00 - [31]
 

I like it with great fervor!

SickSeven
Simplistic Syndicate
Posted - 2010.09.16 03:48:00 - [32]
 

I support the general idea in the OP. Further discussion is needed.

Discuss.

Konosos
Posted - 2010.09.16 08:04:00 - [33]
 

Some want Sentry-free, Blob-free, Bubble-free, Capital-free PvP. Some others just go to Highsec and join a Wardec Corp.
Some don't want the ebil stupid Sentryguns to kill their Interceptor-Roamings *DAMNYOUSENTRIES!!!!*. Some others just roam in Nullsec with their Frigs.

You don't even consider using already given ingame possibilities. You want your own world where you can do anything at any given time, without recognising you are only making Lowsec even emptier that way. You're ignoring that there are ways to get what you want, but they are not obvious to you as you only think "Lowsec = to many Supercarriers hotdropping my 15 men SeBo BS gatecamp/ Nullsec = to many ebil blobbers and all those ebil bubbles". You lack experience. Your idea would only make EvE some XXX systems larger, while people there would only camp their butts off at stations and gates. I mean if they implement this "world" you imagine, you would complain about 30 RR Domi Blobs everywhere which would be overkill there.

You are just like those missionrunning guys wanting a 1000 DPS CruiseMissileOrca with 6 Strip Miners and Salvaging Drones. If people hotdrop with Supercarriers in Lowsec, they obviously have no balls. Still you can bring 2 or 3 nice HICs with focused scripts and make him wet his pants when 15 RR Carriers drop on him (oh sorry, this would require organization and skill, I forgot I'm talking to a Badass-MoFo-Lowsec-Piwat *yarrrr*). If people are to afraid to go to Lowsec/ Nullsec pipes and roam there, they are just small-minded.


and lol @ the guy who said Lowsec is more dangerous than Nullsec

Maldurleon
Posted - 2010.09.16 12:00:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 23/08/2010 22:23:10
Originally by: Torpir Lee

WH already has better spawns, better asteroids, better safety from roaming gangs(no warpable belts). Giving missions too is a further increase on that. Stations are great safety tools, repair tools among other things, and allow a lone pilot to not have to worry about having to put up a POS and having it torn down by someone. Stations provide both less risk and more reward. No bubbles gives you considerably less risk.


Did you know that more and more people around the world are don't have level elementary reading comprehension? Let's take your concerns one at a time:
- WH spawns don't seem to apply since the idea specifically called out that the spawns would not be sleepers, but basically random.
- Asteroids were not at all mentioned in this thread.
- Belts and Stargates, which feature heavily in your "roaming gang vulnerability" idea are featured in this idea. Furthermore, have you ever heard of a Sanctum?
- Please go learn about the payout rates of pirate missions before whining about them. I'm a pretty goddamn pimp mission runner and I doubt I break my highsec income with pirate missions.
- Stations exist all over space, and (gasp?) they exist all over NPC space. Shocking that they might exist here.
- The lack of bubbles is indeed slightly less risk... but I suspect many people would correctly tell you that Low Sec is significantly more risky/dangerous than 0.0.

So I'll sum up your arguments:
- "I don't have any idea what the rewards would be like, but I want to whine about them anyway"
- "I don't understand the implications of living in NPC controlled space, and want to falsely say its less risky than sov space".

Awesome job, thank you for contributing to the discussion. Please come again.

-Liang

Ed: You should *really* understand the implications of what was said before complaining. Also, try reading it next time. Rolling Eyes


Have to say that I really enjoyed reading you scientifically DISSECT the foo' with surgical precision. Well done I salute you.

Sig Sour
Posted - 2010.09.16 21:05:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Konosos
Assumption


There is no space like what is suggested here. Pleas read before posting. Also I challenge you to demonstrate where I was complaining about anything, as well as where you came to the conclusion that I lack the experience and have not considered the "already given ingame possiblities"?

Before you enter the ring, know that I did all that you can possibly suggest long before your character Konosos was created.

Mr SmartGuy
Posted - 2010.09.16 23:17:00 - [36]
 

I think our ideas are compatible: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1384212

My idea is based on a slightly different approach and connected with the new type of ships. You are free to discuss it in this thread or go to my thread, but please try to keep it in one place.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2010.09.16 23:32:00 - [37]
 

I like it. I really do hate bubbles so a bubble free, super cap free, local intel free null sec would be great.

Covert Kitty
Amarr
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2010.09.17 01:06:00 - [38]
 

I agree with you on the issues that motivated you to write this post. I disagree with your conclusions. More space is not needed, theres plenty of it, we just need to fix what we have. Lowsec is financially nearly worthless, theres no incentive to do much of anything there. That combined with Local, gate/station guns make lowsec a horrible pvp environment as well.

ditch local (preferably everywhere), ditch the guns, make it just a little less valuable than npc nullsec, but do not permit bubbles, devalue highsec missions.

eve needs to get its gameplay incentives in order, they are grossly out of whack at the moment.

Sig Sour
Posted - 2010.09.17 04:55:00 - [39]
 

Actually I think low sec is really good as is. If they expanded the FW to include more factions, and made all of low sec FW territory, I think that it would be perfect. Low sec has FW, which is better isk than level 4's but not as good as null sec. Why change it?

This isn't about weather space is empty or weather the empty systems between alliance needs to be there, this is about a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT set of mechanics.

Konosos
Posted - 2010.09.17 08:03:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Konosos on 17/09/2010 10:13:11
Originally by: Sig Sour
There is no space like what is suggested here. Pleas read before posting.
I read what you and your fellow Liang wrote here. I agree that there is no space yet that has no bubbles, no caps, no POS, no sentries, no local, no concord etc. But to have this kind of space some day is nothing else than wishful thinking, as I already wrote that there are ways to get what you want, but the combination of all ain't realistic as it isn't balanced at all.

Originally by: Sig Sour
Also I challenge you to demonstrate where I was complaining about anything,
I challenge you to demonstrate where I said that you were complaining about anything :)

I said you WOULD be complaining about camps everywhere on gates and stations in your dreamworld, as there is no way to kill them despite having a bigger fleet. And people will camp 23/7 there as they are already doing it in Lowsec.

Your motivation to suggest such a world arises from being unhappy with the current conditions (with EvE as a whole) as Lowsec does not favour YOUR style to play 100%. But you're not alone with that thought and instead of having ideas improving Lowsec you want a completely new world. You even say you're happy with Lowsec so far.

Originally by: Sig Sour
as well as where you came to the conclusion that I lack the experience and have not considered the "already given ingame possiblities"?
If you've tried the other ways I conclude you are just to lazy to go those ways, hence you suggest you dreamworld in EvE no one other profits than pure gankers that are

- to afraid of bubbles, hotdrops, sentries, blobs and their pods being killed
- to emo about carebears seeing gankers incoming in local and hiding in POS

Originally by: Sig Sour
Before you enter the ring, know that I did all that you can possibly suggest long before your character Konosos was created.
Konosos ain't my main, it is just one of my characters that "wants it too easy" ( you know... the Highsec mission runner ;) ) But thanks for the effort checking out his data :)

Edit: grammar and clarification

Etriana Morgan
Danneskjold Repossessions
Posted - 2010.09.17 11:25:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Etriana Morgan on 17/09/2010 11:29:28
Edited by: Etriana Morgan on 17/09/2010 11:27:44
All ideas on expanding the universe are nice and this one is pretty good actually.

I think a seperate and relativly small stargate network that could only be reached thru w-space would be nice.
No bubbles, no senties, no supercaps I agree with this too.

However I think the stations should be player constructed and run and normal capitals should be allowed to be constructed in poses here or brought in.

Wouldn't be a full outpost but a cheaper and much smaller type of station that was destructable and didn't need sov. It would be more like a pos you could dock at and pretty limited.
So no sov would exist.

The main advantage of these limited stations is that a market becomes possible. Basically it would just be a trade rift or somesuch that you fly up to and put your goods on sale at. Might even only allow frig size ships or lower to dock...

I am not sure they should have repair or cloning servies there is other ways to keep your cloans and reps mobile...

cheese monkey
Macabre Votum
Posted - 2010.09.17 13:00:00 - [42]
 

BRILLIANT



Sig Sour
Posted - 2010.09.17 22:14:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Etriana Morgan
Wouldn't be a full outpost but a cheaper and much smaller type of station that was destructable and didn't need sov. It would be more like a pos you could dock at and pretty limited.
So no sov would exist.

That would introduce more problems than its worth. I dont like that suggestion at all honestly. I think abandoned stations with the presence of an AI would add a lot of character to the game.


Originally by: Konosos
I challenge you to demonstrate where I said that you were complaining about anything :)
Originally by: Konosos
...as you only think "Lowsec = to many Supercarriers hotdropping my 15 men SeBo BS gatecamp/ Nullsec = to many ebil blobbers and all those ebil bubbles".
Originally by: Konosos
Your motivation to suggest such a world arises from being unhappy with the current conditions...

You assumed this is a complaint thread about Eve. I want fun (high sec), fun (low sec), fun (null sec) and fun (ghost empire). It isn't that hard to comprehend for most people.

Konosos, in your current state, you are not worth conversing with. Sorry, but all I can tell from your contribution is that you are either a noob or a low sec SC pilot who doesn't want to lose potential targets. If you really oppose to this, you should state why, and what you think would really be wrong with it.

Etriana Morgan
Danneskjold Repossessions
Posted - 2010.09.18 15:31:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Sig Sour
That would introduce more problems than its worth. I dont like that suggestion at all honestly. I think abandoned stations with the presence of an AI would add a lot of character to the game.


What problems? I think it would only make things more fun if there where no completely safe havens for your stuff in this ghost empire. Otherwise it will be almost exactly like low sec anyhow ... just with interceptors ...

Sig Sour
Posted - 2010.09.18 17:16:00 - [45]
 

First set of problems is the list of problems that goes along with destructible outposts, which has been discussed many many times before. It is possible CCP is doing something with the rumored Mother Ship.

Second is mineral extraction. Since there will NEVER be a connection into empire, you will have to gather minerals for an outpost... with no local chat. I don't see that happening under the current mining methods any time this decade.

Third, your suggestion is a pos with a docked GUI.

Fourth, which is the biggest game changer in your suggestion, survival means you need to have huge numbers and make anyone who may pose a threat to you blue. What I see happening is everyone in this empire makes each other blue so nobody gets attacked, and any strangers who try to move in get wiped off the map. I think it would make it a very stale carebear land. We have that in this game.

Saying it is low sec with interceptors is trolling.

Etriana Morgan
Danneskjold Repossessions
Posted - 2010.09.18 19:19:00 - [46]
 

Yes, but as you also said I am not suggestion outposts.

Basically I would want a stationless enviroment but with a market.

What I propose is that players are allowed to build structures that work similar to customs offices. They would not take much resources to build and give you a hangar that can interact with the market.

The option of allowing small ships to dock would elevate some of the risk and make it easier to mange market orders.

There is always the risk someone monopolises the space. You have the same problem with NPC stations.
NPC station would remove alot of the nomadic deep in uncharted territory feeling which is great about w-space.

Originally by: Sig Sour
Saying it is low sec with interceptors is trolling.


How? What you are proposing is just NPC null sec without bubbles and supercapitals (and some random rat spawn everywhere?). That sounds basically like low sec with interceptors to me...

Without proper stations it would be much more similar to w-space except with a market and fixed connections which would add lots of options to w-space while still keeping it something different.

Anyways I think your main proposal is good and the finer points should probably be left to the professional game developers anyhow. Hopefully they take the basic idea you have presented here and do something with it.

Sig Sour
Posted - 2010.09.18 20:31:00 - [47]
 

Player built and destructible is what I don't like about your suggestion. It kills a lot of the ghost empire feel to it, and will lead to napfests.

I could see changing the places we go to get repaired, refit, and whatnot changing to something like what you are saying. I'll put more thought into it and get back to you.

Konosos
Posted - 2010.09.18 23:12:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Sig Sour
Konosos, in your current state, you are not worth conversing with.
lol "my current state"
A very plausible way to get rid of people whose opinion you don't like *thumbs up*

Originally by: Sig Sour
Sorry, but all I can tell from your contribution is that you are either a noob
I already mentioned this ain't my main. Unfortunately I can not post with my main as it is forbidden for mah corp+allaince to post in any public forums. If you think a "noob" would have this knowledge about EvE and its machanics, you are cleary an ignoramus (or someone that overestimates noob knowledge). Be sure that the human behind this character is playing EvE for over 3 years. Mr. 2008 "I did all that you can possibly suggest" Wink

Originally by: Sig Sour
or a low sec SC pilot who doesn't want to lose potential targets.
Hence I told you how to kill a Supercarrier in Lowsec Question

Originally by: Sig Sour
If you really oppose to this, you should state why, and what you think would really be wrong with it.
As you do not read my posts or did not understand the content in them, I will stop participating in this thread. Maybe it would have gotten an interesting duscussion if you wouldn't have payed attention only to the very character I use to post here, instead of reading what I wrote. I wish you good luck with your undertaking.

Crewman Jenkins
Caldari
Malicious Demi-Lancers
Posted - 2010.09.19 19:32:00 - [49]
 

I like the idea, but I think the stations should be few, or make the stations damaged and allow/make players have to reactivate them or keep them in repair or something.

Stewart Griffon
Posted - 2010.09.19 22:27:00 - [50]
 

I think this is a great idea and is a logical next-step for w-space to take. With the addition of Incarna, I can envision some pretty cool abandoned AI operated stations to explore.

SGT FUNYOUN
Gallente
Posted - 2010.09.19 22:54:00 - [51]
 

Ok more space with different dynamics and rules for how it operates would be awesome. Your Idea seems like a mixture of the best from high sec low sec and null sec all combined into one big ball of flaming death minus all the bull hockey that comes with all those places.Twisted Evil I like it.

Serz Wayfarer
Posted - 2010.09.20 18:24:00 - [52]
 

0.0 like space without caps? I'm in !


Tub Chil
Posted - 2010.09.20 20:11:00 - [53]
 

I actually like this idea
Wild west without blobs and much small/solo pvp

Ophelia Ursus
Posted - 2010.09.20 20:22:00 - [54]
 

I like the idea. How would you handle T2 production in the area - new mineable moons, require people to import moongoo from Empire space, or some other mechanic?

Sig Sour
Posted - 2010.09.20 20:44:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
I like the idea. How would you handle T2 production in the area - new mineable moons, require people to import moongoo from Empire space, or some other mechanic?

As far as features and requests, I left this out because I think it was a bit of a distraction from the main point here. Lets go for it anyway... This is a modified version of what was a lengthy discussion I started on the test server, which slightly changed and became PI:

There is a new ship, which deploys up to 5 mining platforms. These platforms are deployed at planets belts. The belts are huge and when you warp to a planet belt, it is completely random, to say there is no "at 0" warp in on those belts. You can find every mineral in the game (no gas clouds) in the belts, at different concentration levels. So if you find a good concentration of minerals you are looking for, you deploy your platform and it starts mining.

Your platform will harvest for a day to several days before you go back to it and pick it up. It could not be probed out, but people could d-scan their way to it and blow it up. The planetary belts will CHANGE their concentration levels over the duration of a week to a month. You could deploy at a spot that has extremely high levels of Technium one day, and a week later it may only kick out very low levels of Tritanium.

What do you think?

Originally by: Stewart Griffon
With the addition of Incarna, I can envision some pretty cool abandoned AI operated stations to explore.

Yeah I would love it if there were the perpetual presence of an AI, like GalDOS, HAL or the Claptrap. There could be a NPC character in Eve with some life in it. I started to read the first Eve novel and I didn't really get into it that much because by chapter 10 there was still no character developed or anyone to identify with. I know that we are supposed to be the main characters, but really I think some of the NPC's could use a lot more life in them.

Konosos, to respond to your so called arguments would be off topic. If you want to contribute, come up with some points that are not attempted personal attacks. You will be missed.

eleve
Posted - 2010.09.21 00:27:00 - [56]
 

Excellent idea! I would really love to see space without bubbles, gate guns and local. That pirate occupation idea is great too.

IMO this space doesn't even need to have any restrictions to capitals. Hauling minerals to space that is beyond W-space is going to be a nightmare if you are going to build carrier there and mining at there would be risky too. And supercapitals can't be build without sov anyway. This area would be like old days when you were pretty lucky if you saw couple carriers in one fight. In my opinion moons should contain T2 materials at about same density as normal 0.0 space, or maybe little less, so that people could build T2 ships at there too, but it wouldn't be any kind of paradise either.

PS. Maybe there could be also couple stations from the biggest NPC companies of eve in systems which they try to control and secure. By securing I mean some sort of NPC that acts like concord, but isn't very powerful and responds slower. DPS would be something like having a big belt spawn aggro. These couple systems would probably turn to some kind of trade hubs.

TheZealot O0O0O
There's Something About Zealots...
Posted - 2010.09.27 21:14:00 - [57]
 

good idea

Luthair StoneDog
Gallente
Diabolus Ex Machina
The Amazing Onjoi and his Educated Rodents
Posted - 2010.09.27 21:58:00 - [58]
 

Hold on, what you're proposing is...

Effectively null sec space
No bubbles
No supercaps
No gate guns
Stations and services
Gates
Players can't own it
No local

?

I love it.

Kogh Ayon
Posted - 2010.09.28 01:11:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Kogh Ayon on 28/09/2010 01:17:13
You love no local but gates? You die.

BTW this idea will increase the T3 ship price bacause the w-space will be the haven of AFK ops or recons. The reason that they are not popular now is just insolation of the WHs.

Sig Sour
Posted - 2010.09.28 21:11:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Kogh Ayon
You love no local but gates? You die.

BTW this idea will increase the T3 ship price bacause the w-space will be the haven of AFK ops or recons. The reason that they are not popular now is just insolation of the WHs.


Can you walk me through that because I really do not understand how you made that leap?


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