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Jigoku Majo
Posted - 2010.08.20 14:23:00 - [1]
 

I notice that the last unit with "combat" in their name has now been pulled out of Iraq.

Plenty of combat ready troops there still in the form of support but whatever.

The question is. After all the collateral damage, blood and treasure - do you think it was worth it?

Pros
----
- Majority of troops combat trained.
- Massive amount of field testing of equipment and tactics.
- A few tyrants strung up.
- Kick arse performances in "Special Olympics" for the next decade or so in particular amputee events.
- A couple of new air bases.

Cons
----
- Thousands of troops dead.
- Tens of thousands of troops injured from PTSD to multiple limb loss with little to look forward to but hand relief from mom while calling a sex line.
- Showing your true hand on acute and strategic oil dependance.
- Osama Bin Laden still at large - (hint, he was never in Iraq).
- Focus taken away from Afganistan - (hint that's where Osama Bin Laden was)
- Oops, now we need to spend blood and treasure on that crap hole too.

Thoughts?

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2010.08.20 14:26:00 - [2]
 

Not going to give this thread a serious response.

0/10

and

IBTL


Slade

Rikeka
Eye of God
Posted - 2010.08.20 14:36:00 - [3]
 

I'm not american, and I say it was worth it. Some peeps here probably don't know, cause they are too young or whatever, but ******* was a major ass problem in the 90's.

Joe Phoenix
The Commonwealth Federation
Posted - 2010.08.20 14:47:00 - [4]
 

Remember they put that tyrants there in the first place.

All for the oil baby!

Vogue
Short Bus Pole Dancers
Posted - 2010.08.20 14:48:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Vogue on 20/08/2010 14:48:40
^ So true

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
Posted - 2010.08.20 15:21:00 - [6]
 

hey lets label everyone we dont like a terrorist, then lets promote the idea that terrorist is the first worlds great nemesis even though half these 'terrorists' are fighting inside their own borders against invaders, then lets invade a bunch of really poor countries and lose.

AMERICA

Caldari Citizen20090217
Posted - 2010.08.20 15:30:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Caldari Citizen20090217 on 20/08/2010 15:35:33
A few more for your list:

-US ignores/breaks international law to go to war, undermining the credibility of the UN. The long term effects of this remain to be seen.

-Iraq has essentially gone from an ordered system to a chaotic one. Under their dictator everyone knew the rules, brutal tho it was. Compare this with Russians caught up in their economic upheaval looking whistfuly back to the days of "Uncle Joe".

-US financial position much less secure. Whilst some of the current situation can be put down to the sub-prime issue and the machinations of China, the war drained the coffers too.

-Attentive dictators world over have noted that the US will not invade you if you have nuclear weapons (see N. Korea).

-Image of armed forces has been eroded.

-Percieved lack of support for troops from the state. Gulf war syndrome, injured soldiers getting very little support, poorly and under-equipped troops.... the list goes on.



Other effects:
-There would be no GLA in C&C Generals without the war.
-The Hollywood bad guys of choice are now fundamentalists rather than commies or ex-commies.
-Achmed the dead terrorist.

EDIT: also thisTwisted Evil

Astenion
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2010.08.20 15:36:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Gneeznow
hey lets label everyone we dont like a terrorist, then lets promote the idea that terrorist is the first worlds great nemesis even though half these 'terrorists' are fighting inside their own borders against invaders, then lets invade a bunch of really poor countries and lose.

AMERICA


To whom did we lose, and what constitutes losing? Iraq wasn't a win/lose war; it's an ongoing struggle and always will be.

Also, I don't understand this notion that people have that the US is some sort of charity organization. Why are you surprised that a country is looking out for its own best interests, even if that means waging war? This isn't the Red Cross, it's a sovereign country, and a superpower at that. I'm not saying the US's foreign policy is right, but you people act like it's a religion or a corporation doing all of this. It's a ****ing country, a government. Do you honestly believe that if Russia were the sole superpower that they wouldn't be throwing their weight around? You should be glad it's the US and not China or Russia being so belligerent in the past few years. Stop hugging your trees and wake the **** up. This is the real world and people in power are going to do what they want. That doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it good, but that's life. I don't like it any more than you do, but ****ing get over it and stop whining.

ceaon
Posted - 2010.08.20 15:49:00 - [9]
 

USA should stay on Iraq more time because the army is the major employer on USA this can hurt the unemployed numbers

just saying

Creepy Goat
Collateral.
Posted - 2010.08.20 15:58:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Jigoku Majo
Osama Bin Laden still at large


Little old Osama was 'caught' several years ago, but allowed to remain 'free' under heavy suveillance.
It was a joint SAS/SRR and US intelligence op that lasted around 18 months that pinpointed him, yet it was kept under-wraps for obvious intelligence gathering reasons.

Just sayin'.

Squat Hardpeck
State Protectorate
Posted - 2010.08.20 16:06:00 - [11]
 

Here in Europe, I am exceedingly knowledgeable about everything that goes on in the US because my news station talks about them and I visit American websites!

Rolling EyesRolling EyesRolling EyesRolling EyesRolling EyesRolling Eyes

Also I look at twitter!

Miliken
Posted - 2010.08.20 16:09:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Miliken on 20/08/2010 16:10:11
+1 to Astenion.

There are a lot of people who cry, *****, and moan about the foreign policy of the USA. As an American, I have reservations against the war. But no matter what, it happened. For better or worse, we tried to make Iraq a better place. We won't know if we were successful for years.

Why don't you turn that negative energy to ***** about the genocide that has been occurring in Africa for years? Or maybe that guy that runs Iran that said the holocaust never happened? Or maybe the guy in Asia that is trying to build a plutonium bomb?

Remember this: The USA is and always will be the premier force that prevents you and everyone else in the world from being happy and safe. We are a country full of terrible human beings that hate everything outside our borders.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2010.08.20 16:15:00 - [13]
 

We should have never gone in, but having gone in I cannot imagine it going any better realistically.

Afghanistan though, we are ****ing up there. I don't think its even possible to fix that country in the short term, and US doesn't have the will to occupy a hostile country for 50 years.

ceaon
Posted - 2010.08.20 16:16:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Miliken
Edited by: Miliken on 20/08/2010 16:10:11
+1 to Astenion.

There are a lot of people who cry, *****, and moan about the foreign policy of the USA. As an American, I have reservations against the war. But no matter what, it happened. For better or worse, we tried to make Iraq a better place. We won't know if we were successful for years.

Why don't you turn that negative energy to ***** about the genocide that has been occurring in Africa for years? Or maybe that guy that runs Iran that said the holocaust never happened? Or maybe the guy in Asia that is trying to build a plutonium bomb?

Remember this: The USA is and always will be the premier force that prevents you and everyone else in the world from being happy and safe. We are a country full of terrible human beings that hate everything outside our borders.

now that you show up all this why questions i got one for u
Why you dont give back all the land you steal from natives ?
u know just a question

Vogue
Short Bus Pole Dancers
Posted - 2010.08.20 16:23:00 - [15]
 

USA and other western countries can't act in a total imperial fashion. US citizens have a limited stomach for troop body bags for a morally ambiguous war.

Where there is a war that is totally morally justified then US and its allies will stay the course.

USA has largely kept the peace since WW2. It's allies get a free ticket with Americas $600 billion a year spending on the military. But USA still has not learned lessons from Iraq on how to re build a nation. Waving the 'democracy' flag is drivel with no solid program to rebuild urban infrastructure - water, electricity, sanitation, hospitals, schools. That will win hearts and minds.

Miliken
Posted - 2010.08.20 16:24:00 - [16]
 

The Native Americans, I assume you mean? I personally did not steal any land from the Native Americans. I would kindly ask you to stop spreading that rumor.

How about your ancestors? Did they always live there? I can only assume they did always live there and that your ancestors never did anything that would be, in today's world, deemed unsavory to better their lives and their families lives.

Competition for resources drives life. All life.


Creepy Goat
Collateral.
Posted - 2010.08.20 16:26:00 - [17]
 

Also, IBTL.

Astenion
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2010.08.20 16:36:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: ceaon
Originally by: Miliken
Edited by: Miliken on 20/08/2010 16:10:11
+1 to Astenion.

There are a lot of people who cry, *****, and moan about the foreign policy of the USA. As an American, I have reservations against the war. But no matter what, it happened. For better or worse, we tried to make Iraq a better place. We won't know if we were successful for years.

Why don't you turn that negative energy to ***** about the genocide that has been occurring in Africa for years? Or maybe that guy that runs Iran that said the holocaust never happened? Or maybe the guy in Asia that is trying to build a plutonium bomb?

Remember this: The USA is and always will be the premier force that prevents you and everyone else in the world from being happy and safe. We are a country full of terrible human beings that hate everything outside our borders.

now that you show up all this why questions i got one for u
Why you dont give back all the land you steal from natives ?
u know just a question


Again, this is another example of what horrible governments can do. Your own government isn't made up of people with higher moral fiber or more ethical people, they just don't govern a superpower that can actually do anything it wants to. You're fooling yourself if you think the UK or France or Italy or Russia would do anything different were they in the shoes of the US...they might even do WORSE. All of them have done it before anyway.

I'm American but I live in Europe because I prefer the lifestyle. It has nothing to do with the government or politics, just the lifestyle. Governments here are just as corrupt and greedy IF NOT MORE SO than in the US. The only difference is that they're not superpowers and they have no idea what it's like to be one, so some of their citizens have this sense of "point the finger at the evil Americans" because their own country which is the size of Texas can't pay off its own debts either, and OBVIOUSLY that was caused by the US, just like we caused cancer and killed Jesus.

The EU governments are a bunch of beggars dressed in tuxedos, pointing the finger at all who pass by who are more fortunate than they. They're berating those in a loftier position than they simply because that's all they have left to do. Your government here in the EU is no less corrupt or ridiculous than the US, with the exception of Tea Baggers, Laughing. Europeans have this holier-than-thou attitude when it comes to US foreign policy, as if their own government wouldn't sell their own mothers to be a part of the most powerful government on Earth. The hypocrites are from both sides of the Atlantic.

CCP Zymurgist


Gallente
C C P
Posted - 2010.08.20 16:38:00 - [19]
 

There are other forums that are better suited to political discussion than the EVE Online forums. Thread locked for political discussions.

Yesh
Unjustified Ancients of MuMu
Posted - 2010.08.20 16:40:00 - [20]
 

For goodness sake you can't just wade in to a country and say 'We are killing you to give you democracy and mcdonalds'.

A country will change to your viewpoint when it is ready, but you can't force your ideals upon it until it is ready. Iraq will embrace democracy when they give up their ridiculous religious beliefs and adopt reason, intelligence and freedom of thought naturally. Only then will they be like the US. Oh wait....


 

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