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Manivald Kostaja
Posted - 2010.08.18 14:17:00 - [1]
 

I am wondering why don't the devs convert python code to assembler? Asm tend to have much shorter lines than c++ so its much easier to maintain.

Also with assembler you don't have to use ram for storing data or eh loop variables and you can directly use cpu's registers for those which are much faster.

Also there are many very good third party python to asm converters so why isn't something like that used?


Stick Cult
Posted - 2010.08.18 14:19:00 - [2]
 

this tbh

BinaryIdiot
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.08.18 14:19:00 - [3]
 

Shorter lines does NOT make it easier to maintain.

I could understand using a Python compiler rather than an interpreter but I don't know what CCP is using.

Dr Magal
Posted - 2010.08.18 14:28:00 - [4]
 

Just skip assembler and go straight for machine code.

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.08.18 14:29:00 - [5]
 

prrfth
cool kids do it in microcode

Miriam Letisse
Posted - 2010.08.18 14:32:00 - [6]
 

Get with the times, punch cards are where it's at.

Dr Magal
Posted - 2010.08.18 14:33:00 - [7]
 

Or they could do it in VHDL and then put it on a circuit board.

Lonzo Kincaid
Black Bands
Posted - 2010.08.18 14:36:00 - [8]
 

Yall livin' in the past, i'm all being cryptic'n **** with my enigma machine.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.08.18 14:41:00 - [9]
 

LISP > all.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.08.18 14:42:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Tippia
LISP > all.

For a more... civilized age.
Very Happy

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.08.18 15:00:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 18/08/2010 15:07:02
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Tippia
LISP > all.
For a more... civilized age.
Very Happy
Damn straight!

Breaking your brain by implementing eval/apply through the use of eval/apply is the best broken brain. Also, programming through wishful thinking is the best kind of programming.

CCP Adida


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.18 15:03:00 - [12]
 

Deleted a trolling comment

Corozan Aspinall
Perkone
Posted - 2010.08.18 15:24:00 - [13]
 

-funroll-loops

"Necessary go faster!"
- Mr Honda

Stick Cult
Posted - 2010.08.18 15:26:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Stick Cult on 18/08/2010 15:26:36
VB.net ftw

amidoinitrite?

SNeAkYbRiT
Gunslingers Corp
Posted - 2010.08.18 15:59:00 - [15]
 

Go faster stripe for the servers is all that is needed, nothing better than a stripe to get the code going in the same direction.

Chia Mulholland
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.08.18 16:03:00 - [16]
 

I don't know if you're being serious or not, because switching to assembler is not a good idea.
For one thing, the code stops being portable.
The lines may be shorter, but you need 10-100 times as many statements.
Also, compilers are so good these days that your average programmer will be hard pressed to produce more efficient machine code than a compiler.
And lastly, making the code 5% faster isn't going to help much. There is something structurally wrong with parts of EVE right now and CCP needs to find out what that is and fix it.

Julius Rigel
Sub-warp Racing Venture
Posted - 2010.08.18 17:23:00 - [17]
 

Noobs! I just use a tiny tiny magnet to shift individual bits in my ram stick to write instructions for the gpu. Get with the times!

RentableMuffin
Posted - 2010.08.18 18:19:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: RentableMuffin on 18/08/2010 18:19:42
Originally by: CCP Adida
Deleted a trolling comment


sorry if you don't get it on 2nd thought I'm not sorry, I kinda wish I didn't get it (bad programming jokes) but they are all trolling comments Neutral

but yes rewrite eve in assembly each line is only one instruction, how could that go badly Rolling Eyes

Mr M
Posted - 2010.08.18 19:33:00 - [19]
 

Port Eve to be run on risc processors, then the code will be easier to maintain.

000Hunter000
Gallente
Missiles 'R' Us
Posted - 2010.08.18 19:56:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Miriam Letisse
Get with the times, punch cards are where it's at.


This could actually be correct! Laughing

Celestine Santora
Posted - 2010.08.18 21:01:00 - [21]
 

I love when people who have absolutely zero knowledge of software development make topics acting like they know how to fix EVE.

Stick Cult
Posted - 2010.08.18 21:06:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Celestine Santora
I love when people who have absolutely zero knowledge of software development make topics acting like they know how to fix EVE.

Rolling Eyes Assembly is obviously the best way to reduce lag, it's pretty obvious.

Callista Sincera
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.08.18 21:19:00 - [23]
 

Quote:
Asm tend to have much shorter lines than c++ so its much easier to maintain.


Shorter, more nondescript lines, and lot's more of them

Quote:
Also with assembler you don't have to use ram for storing data or eh loop variables and you can directly use cpu's registers for those which are much faster.


Which is what compiled code usually does, just-in-time or otherwise.

Quote:
Also there are many very good third party python to asm converters so why isn't something like that used?


So, you got the Python code in assembler now and store it as machine code. The binary would then contain the same instructions Python would perform and you gained exactly nothing.
A Python to assembler converter is a debugging tool. Or possibly useful to run the code on some device that doesn't support a full Python environment.

Sure you can optimize the asm code, but if you were to print the entire EVE sourcecode on endless printer paper in assembler form, you'd probably be able to loop it around the planet once of twice.

So yeah, EVE in assembler.... that'll definitely happen...Rolling Eyes

Stick Cult
Posted - 2010.08.18 21:48:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Callista Sincera
~~stuff~~

You dun got troll'd.

Rakessh
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.08.19 00:19:00 - [25]
 

moar parallellism and moar hardware!

For me it's impossible to tell where CCP went wrong without the specsheets :P
prolly need to run the numbers of server databusses, the interconnect network, the sql servers, the lot...

I think the most bang for the buck CCP can get is reducing the codes load on the hardware (it's usually the case).

Someone once told me, never fall in love with your code, be prepared to scrap it for new code (in this case; code that would do the exact same thing, only better)
I also find this works with women Shocked

Aera Aiana
Amarr
Posted - 2010.08.19 11:25:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Stick Cult
Originally by: Callista Sincera
~~stuff~~

You dun got troll'd.


That was pretty obvious after the first quote. The point was to explain why it's a troll.

Ham2000
Posted - 2010.08.19 16:16:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Ham2000 on 19/08/2010 16:19:29
Oh I love threads like this Very Happy
Well, lets see:
1) Moving from say C++ to assembler will not increase speed significantly, as already stated as current compilers are so good.
2) One line of C++/Python does not equate to one line of assembly code, one line in a Highlevel language may convert to hundreds, maybe thousands of lines of code.
3) An assembly code instruction does things like, move byte x to byte y, another used to load the accumulator, another to add x to the accumulator.
4) If and I mean if, the code running on the server is indeed interpreted python with some compiled C/C++ then if the python was compiled it would run at an order of magnitude faster than if it was interpreted.
5) Using RISC cpu's would actually increase the length of the code, may improve the performance(maybe), this is due to the fixed length of the instructions, where as normal CISC CPU's use instructions of varying lengths. (execution time that is)
I love it when people that have had absolutely no experience of machine code, assembly, or probably anything more involved than BASIC think they know everything, lol.
Oh and just for kicks, you do all realise that assembly and machine code are in effect the same thing, just that in machine code you use the actual binary value of the opcode and operand, and assembly you use mnemonics to represent machine code. One assembly command=one machine code command.

EDIT: nothing runs using assembler, only machine code, everything needs to be converted to machine code to work, even in an interpreted language, tho that is done as required at point of execution.Laughing

Lothros Andastar
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.19 16:39:00 - [28]
 

They use Python because it's Stackless.

It also has Spam.

Ham2000
Posted - 2010.08.19 16:41:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Lothros Andastar
They use Python because it's Stackless.

It also has Spam.


Lol.

Baydjarakh
V I R I I
Art of Defiance
Posted - 2010.08.19 17:21:00 - [30]
 

Maybe they could use ENIAC you know, could fix lag issues in combat, it already have been used either for projectile or bombs: (may screw hybrid and lazors though Confused)

from wikipedia:

Quote:
ENIAC was designed to calculate artillery firing tables for the United States Army's Ballistic Research Laboratory, but its first use was in calculations for the hydrogen bomb.



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