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Belfelmalak
Posted - 2010.08.18 00:14:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Belfelmalak on 18/08/2010 00:16:50
As has been repeated ad nauseum, ransoms are just not being paid with regularity anymore. Many bears seem to feel that they will get destroyed whether or not they pay, so they would just rather lose their ship then risk paying and then losing their ship anyway.

What we need is some kind of game mechanic that allows them to pay, but only transfers the money when and if they get back to a station intact. It would be a fairly simple fix and would take ransoming mainstream in Eve. Yes, there would be some risk for the pirate, the carebear could get popped by someone else, or the bear could just self destruct to avoid paying, but then there never are any sure things in eve any way. Also, how about a ransome mail, something to record the pirates success in the field. Ransome mails might be a fun thing to collect as well.

As a new player and one who may engage in piracy in the future, this is a change Id like to see.


General Sadistis
S0utherN Comfort
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2010.08.18 00:20:00 - [2]
 

+1 Seriously i dont nessicairly agree with the method in which you described for it maybe doing it like a loan contract where he pays and if he gets killed by you within say the next hour he gets it back to buy a timed immunity not station **** cause what if he is moving out to 0.0 or several other possible situations as a former pirate i would have loved to have seen this and if it is instituted i might start yarring again

Belfelmalak
Posted - 2010.08.18 00:23:00 - [3]
 

That could work, I am not locked into the specifics, it just seems that there should be some level of protection for the bear, and also some for the pirate. One thing though, one has to nullify it if he is destroyed before he docks, else the next tactic will just be to have another buddy pop him right after he agrees.

General Sadistis
S0utherN Comfort
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2010.08.18 00:28:00 - [4]
 

i dont think that would be fair to the pirate because there are more than 1 pirate in any given system... id say if they are in the same corp or alliance it nullifys would be best


Belfelmalak
Posted - 2010.08.18 00:30:00 - [5]
 

True enough, though whether he is destroyed or not, the ransome mail should be sent as soon as the victim agrees to pay it

Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.18 00:31:00 - [6]
 

No. Although I rarely ransom and always honor them when I do, I don't like the idea of forcing pirates to honor ransoms, or having a ransoming mechanic in the game.

Scoundrelus
The Black Fleet
Posted - 2010.08.18 00:37:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Brusanan
No. Although I rarely ransom and always honor them when I do, I don't like the idea of forcing pirates to honor ransoms, or having a ransoming mechanic in the game.


I agree. I'm getting kind of sick of CCP's handouts to the bears. Warp to 0, outlaws being labeled in local, etc. One of the things I love about EVE is the freedom it gives us to actually do things like dishonor ransom and scam people.

Belfelmalak
Posted - 2010.08.18 00:40:00 - [8]
 

I don't look at this as a hand out to bears, I look at it as a way of getting them to pay up. For me, getting the ISK is the point, but if you basically just want to grief and scam them, then I understand why you wouldn't like it. And no, I don't think your wrong for wanting to.

Dian'h Might
Minmatar
Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
Posted - 2010.08.18 00:41:00 - [9]
 

As a player on a trial account I got ransomed, and that's actually what made me keep playing eve. I thought it was cool that I could actually make a verbal agreement with a player for something important, and there was no game mechanic forcing either of us to keep our word (I had agreed to pay him half then and half when I was safely away, I did pay him the rest btw).

What we really need is an overhaul of the bounty hunting system, so that when people dishonor ransoms we can put a bounty on them and it'll actually mean something.

General Sadistis
S0utherN Comfort
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2010.08.18 00:46:00 - [10]
 

the reason i quit pirating is every time i would ransom people would say **** you your just going to pop me anyways so do it... while i loved popping people this general mindset twards pirates need to have something done about it or pirates will be a dieing breed... if u just wanna kill people kill them...


General Sadistis
S0utherN Comfort
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2010.08.18 00:50:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Dian'h Might

What we really need is an overhaul of the bounty hunting system, so that when people dishonor ransoms we can put a bounty on them and it'll actually mean something.

I agree something to make it so people can post bountys with certanty that it isnt just lining the pockets of the person you put it on splitting or alting it... this is no easy task however because there is no real way of knowing what the killer's intentions are.

another option is making bounty hunting a more "attractive" roleplay for players and this is comming from someone with a 140M bounty himself


Belfelmalak
Posted - 2010.08.18 00:54:00 - [12]
 

I would point out that nothing suggested here would prevent the pirate from fragging the guy anyway, it would just mean you dont get the ransome as well. Frankly, if you are creative, you could have a friend who is not in your allaince or corp do it and stiil get paid if the second option is taken. Personally I dont care, I just want the bears to want to pay meEvil or Very Mad

General Sadistis
S0utherN Comfort
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2010.08.18 00:58:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Belfelmalak
Personally I dont care, I just want the bears to want to pay meEvil or Very Mad



2nd this motion YARRRR!!

Lana Torrin
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.08.18 01:00:00 - [14]
 

I will vote for this is we can add a new can flipping mechanic as well..

Once I flip your can you have 2 mins to flip it back or you get concorded..

I'm sick and tired of bears not wanting to fight.

Xearal
Minmatar
SOL Industries
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.18 01:02:00 - [15]
 

Well, I guess the main reason that most bears don't want to pay that ransom is because a lot of pirates out there DON'T honour ransoms, add to that, that a single story about a pirate not honouring a ransom makes more impact than 20 stories of pirates that DO honour ransoms, and well, that just gives pirates a really bad name.

So far, I've been ransomed once, due to me having gotten complacant on my cargo runs, then messing up when I was in the clear.
( mental note: when you're cloaked, do NOT touch your cloak button, you WILL be decloaked and you WILL NOT be able to recloak on time. )

Anyway, they blew my ship and ransomed my pod for 100M, I talked them down to 60, due to my head not being worth more. I paid the ransom, and they honoured it.
I have a note somewhere with the names of said pirates' names. Mainly because I make a list of pirates that DO honour a ransom, so I know who I can trust to keep their word if I pay up, and a list of ones that don't, so I know if they ever catch me next time, I'll just self destruct or whatever.\
( and ofcourse, if I ever run ito them, and the tables are turned, I know who to exact payment from, either in blown up property or ransoms, if I have the time for that )


General Sadistis
S0utherN Comfort
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2010.08.18 01:07:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: General Sadistis on 18/08/2010 01:08:14
^^^ yes an honour system works but most people dont even give you the chance ive honoured every ransom ive ever been paid... and typically if you make me laugh i let you go anyways pods really arnt worth taht much LOL i will oftin even offer ransoms on ships nomatter how oftin they are honored i still quit getting paid mid 09 by ANYBODY and ive never gone back on a ransom... the stupid i can do anything i want pirates who take ur money and screw you give pirates a bad name... thats why i went merc... if you could bring some honor or some system like that back to pirates id do it again in a heartbeat


Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.18 01:13:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Lana Torrin
I will vote for this is we can add a new can flipping mechanic as well..

Once I flip your can you have 2 mins to flip it back or you get concorded..

I'm sick and tired of bears not wanting to fight.

+1 to this.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2010.08.18 02:07:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Taedrin on 18/08/2010 02:08:07
(Incoming wall of text)

Seriously? EVE is not the sort of game where the player should have a decision taken away from them. At no point should a ransom mechanic prevent a pirate from being able to activate his/her modules. It should facilitate the ransoming gameplay with official mechanics. It should differentiate between ransoms which are honored and dishonored. It could even apply a reward or penalty for honoring/dishonoring a ransom. But it should never remove the choice to dishonor a ransom.

Possibilities:

1) The ransom mechanic temporarily adjusts the victims standings with the pirates, or otherwise marks them as having paid the ransom. No more, no less. This mechanic could be configurable, so that the victim can pay a ransom for a "day pass", or other periods of time. Perhaps this could also allow the victim to pay protection money, as a recurring bill. If the victim fails to pay the bill, then they automatically lose their standings.

2) The ransom mechanic rewards a pirate for honoring a ransom. For example, an honored ransom will reward the pirate with a sec status reimbursement from aggressive action. Other possible rewards would be to remove the pirates' GCCs so that sentries stop shooting them. Another possible reward would be that a pirate that never dishonors a ransom never goes below a certain sec status (such as -5). In fact you could extend this by having honored ransoms IMPROVE sec status up to this same level. Alternatively, this level could be raised higher, so that a pirate who ransoms can still enter some high sec systems, but a pirate who dishonors ransom can not.

3) The ransom mechanic punishes a pirate for dishonoring a ransom. For example, a dishonored reward will cause the pirate to receive a harsher sec status reduction. The GCC could also be extended for a longer period of time. If this isn't harsh enough, you could have stations/stargates refuse access to pirates who dishonor ransoms for a time - thus trapping the pirates in the solar system.

4) The ransom mechanic could simply act as a means to record ransoms - or in other words, an official "ransom mail". Ransom mails would be given to both victim and pirate, same as kill/loss mails. Ransom mails can be API verified, same as kill mails. Kill board sites can then keep track of "dishonored" ransoms by comparing ransom mails to kill mails. If a ransom is made, and a kill mail is created soon after with the same parties, you could say that the ransom was dishonored. But if a ransom is made, but no kill mail is generated, then the ransom is "honored".

5) The ransom mechanic could make it easier for pirates to assess a fair ransom value. For example, a pirate wishing to negotiate a ransom with his/her victim initiates the ransom. The ransom mechanic could then allow the victim to enter negotiations. While entering negotiations, the victim's ship shuts down all modules, and is temporarily given control to the pirate so that the pirate can gang warp it to a safe location for negotiations (such as a POS, or safe spot). The victim's starship can then be held at this location until a cargo/ship scanner is brought in to assess the proper value of the victim's ship and the ransom is carried out.

Alternatively, instead of allowing the pirate to "tow" the victim to a safer location for negotiations, the mechanic could simply allow the victim to reveal his/her ship's cargo/fittings, possibly implants (though this would arguably make cargo/ship scanners useless). It should be noted that such a mechanic would most likely only be possible if both the pirate and the victim agree to enter negotiations.

6) The ransom mechanic could make it *harder* for pirates to dishonor a ransom, but not make it impossible. For example, when a ransom is paid, the pirate loses his/her target lock (possibly being jammed), giving the victim a chance to escape. The pirate could still bring a friend whose target lock would NOT be lost.

Lana Torrin
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.08.18 02:11:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Taedrin
In fact you could extend this by having honored ransoms IMPROVE sec status up to this same level. Alternatively, this level could be raised higher, so that a pirate who ransoms can still enter some high sec systems, but a pirate who dishonors ransom can not.


THIS! THIS NOW!

Belfelmalak
Posted - 2010.08.18 02:33:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Taedrin
Edited by: Taedrin on 18/08/2010 02:08:07
(Incoming wall of text)

Seriously? EVE is not the sort of game where the player should have a decision taken away from them. At no point should a ransom mechanic prevent a pirate from being able to activate his/her modules. It should facilitate the ransoming gameplay with official mechanics. It should differentiate between ransoms which are honored and dishonored. It could even apply a reward or penalty for honoring/dishonoring a ransom. But it should never remove the choice to dishonor a ransom.
Originally by: Taedrin


I dont think anyone ever suggested preventing a pirate from being able to fire, I certainly didnt. Other then that, I completly agree with this post. And I am strongly in favor of ransome mails




Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2010.08.18 02:45:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Taedrin

4) The ransom mechanic could simply act as a means to record ransoms - or in other words, an official "ransom mail". Ransom mails would be given to both victim and pirate, same as kill/loss mails. Ransom mails can be API verified, same as kill mails. Kill board sites can then keep track of "dishonored" ransoms by comparing ransom mails to kill mails. If a ransom is made, and a kill mail is created soon after with the same parties, you could say that the ransom was dishonored. But if a ransom is made, but no kill mail is generated, then the ransom is "honored".


This idea seems the best, no artificial protection of a ship or any other interruptive mechanics just a simple log of ransoms offered, and if they where accepted or honoured and it wouldn't need any kind of fancy UI or anything the pirate could just link a ransom offer the same way as you do with contracts and if the victim views the offer a small show info screen listing recent ransoms and a percentage of honoured/dishonoured ransoms, maybe even some pie charts or something.

Pirates might get paid more often and the stats would have another benefit if people could view a ransom history it could provide a useful tool for pirate corp recruiters or for pirates who dislike dishonoured ransoms it would be a good way for them to see who does kills a target that's paid up more easily.

Jesslyn Daggererux
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2010.08.18 02:50:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: General Sadistis
+1 Seriously i dont nessicairly agree with the method in which you described for it maybe doing it like a loan contract where he pays and if he gets killed by you within say the next hour he gets it back to buy a timed immunity not station **** cause what if he is moving out to 0.0 or several other possible situations as a former pirate i would have loved to have seen this and if it is instituted i might start yarring again

what did you just say?

Rho Anan
Posted - 2010.08.18 03:10:00 - [23]
 

Here is what you do.

1. Pirate right clicks his target where you see 'initiate ransom' . Clicks on it. Menu pops up where he fills in ISK amount. Sets his amount then hits send.
2. Carebear has timed pop up menu (30 secs) that says either "View ransom, Refuse to view ransom." If you click View ransom you see the isk amount and then can either accept or deny. (maybe counter-offer button?)
3. Pirate gets response "Player refused to view ransom" Commence PEW PEW. "Player denied ransom offer" Commense PEW PEW. "Player has accepted ransom offer". Your wallet gets fatter and you can commence to PEW PEW and dishonor the ransom if you want.

I suggest all suggested ransoms be logged to the character. So if your caught and you look at the pirates info and see that he honors 98% of ransoms.... or honors 5% of ransoms it will help you decide what to do. Dont think anything should change except for official ransom menus.

Maybe? Yes? No?

Intense Thinker
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.08.18 03:14:00 - [24]
 

This idea makes Eve less of a sandbox

Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.18 03:19:00 - [25]
 

One thing you should consider, if you support a mechanic that would ensure the safety of any victim who pays a ransom, is whether or not the ransomee will get immunity from all pirates, or just the pirate ransoming them. If you only get immunity from the pirate doing the ransom, what is going to prevent the pirate from just killing you with an alt after you pay the ransom? If you get immunity from all pirates, what is going to prevent carebears from abusing the mechanic with alts to escape pirates?

If you support a mechanic where the pirate only gets the ransom money after the victim is safe, why should the victim be forced to pay the ransom when he gets away? Now that he is safe from the pirates reach, what incentive does he have to pay the ransom? I don't support a mechanic that forces the victim to pay a ransom any more than I support a mechanic that forces the pirate to honor it.

Of course, this entire discussion is pointless because CCP won't get around to giving a **** about what the players think for at least 18 months or so.

Belfelmalak
Posted - 2010.08.18 03:43:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Belfelmalak on 18/08/2010 03:43:44
Why does the idea of making a ransome be a type of contract make Eve any less of a sandbox than any other type of contract? Party 1 offers A (not to kill you) Party 2 offers B (ISK not to be killed) If party A fulfills his side of the Contract, then Party 2 must fulfill his. As the money in now in escrow, he cannot change his mind after he escapes. Party 1 gets his money and a nice killmail, sec boost, and a record of having kept his word, Party 2 (bear) gets to keep his cuddly and his life, unless some other unaffiliated pirate kills him anyway. Either way Pirate 1 gets his loot. Contracts are a part of eve and contract scamming is also a part.
Furthermore, If Party 1 decides to shoot, he can, he just voids the contract doing so.

Frankly if ramsoming is not going to be a lost art, ya got to offer the bear some kind of bone.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2010.08.18 03:56:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Belfelmalak
Edited by: Belfelmalak on 18/08/2010 03:43:44
Why does the idea of making a ransome be a type of contract make Eve any less of a sandbox than any other type of contract? Party 1 offers A (not to kill you) Party 2 offers B (ISK not to be killed) If party A fulfills his side of the Contract, then Party 2 must fulfill his. As the money in now in escrow, he cannot change his mind after he escapes. Party 1 gets his money and a nice killmail, sec boost, and a record of having kept his word, Party 2 (bear) gets to keep his cuddly and his life, unless some other unaffiliated pirate kills him anyway. Either way Pirate 1 gets his loot. Contracts are a part of eve and contract scamming is also a part.
Furthermore, If Party 1 decides to shoot, he can, he just voids the contract doing so.

Frankly if ramsoming is not going to be a lost art, ya got to offer the bear some kind of bone.


EVE is a game where guarantees are far and few between. The more guarantees that you put into the game, the more rigid the game becomes, and thus less sandboxy.

Noun Verber
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.18 04:36:00 - [28]
 

Make a pirate society that has a Code of Conduct where members have to follow rules or get booted - there no mechanic change required

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2010.08.18 04:57:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 18/08/2010 04:58:37
Ransoms are fine right now we don't need a ransom mechanic.

Stuff like that just dumbs down the game and takes away from the sand box. It takes a reasonable amount of skill to be successful with ransoms and it requires a certain amount of trust.

Taking away that by adding a sure thing, reduces how deep we can dig in the sandbox. There is no certainties in EVE, Ransoms included. It should be up to the pirate to build his reputation of honoring his ransoms.

Gaerites
Posted - 2010.08.18 07:30:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: General Sadistis
+1 Seriously i dont nessicairly agree with the method in which you described for it maybe doing it like a loan contract where he pays and if he gets killed by you within say the next hour he gets it back to buy a timed immunity not station **** cause what if he is moving out to 0.0 or several other possible situations as a former pirate i would have loved to have seen this and if it is instituted i might start yarring again

No. No. Just no.

A person pays a ransom to be released, not to buy free roaming time for a period of time.
You pay, you GTFO.
If you come back and get caught again, expect to pay again.

Also, lern to engrish.
50% of your post is babbling that simply does not make sense.


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