open All Channels
seplocked Science and Industry
blankseplocked How to Fix PI
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

KaetheYsera
Posted - 2010.08.14 14:01:00 - [1]
 

1) Allow us to move structures.

2) Regenerate resource distribution maps every week.

3) Make extractors automatically run

TADA! Suddenly we have a fun game where we need to rebuild our colonies, which is interesting, instead of restarting our extractors which is insanely boring. As an alternative, the option to automatically cycle the extractors on an entire planet with one click would make PI suck less.

Ari Chu
Posted - 2010.08.14 15:09:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Ari Chu on 14/08/2010 15:14:41
Nah, none of that makes PI "fun" - they are just ideas to make it "easier". Even if they made those changes, PI still wouldn't be fun.

To make it "fun" - There need to be more types of constructions. There need to be enough types of constructions such that the colonies aren't simply there as ways to produce POS fuels. There need to be ways to create colonies that are completely different. Some examples:

1) Colonies. Imagine having to provide the needed goods and supplies for living colonies that have populations. Importing various stuffs that the people living there will want, and getting ISK or other goods in return. Maybe some "colonist facilities" can only be built on some types of planets, with the exchanges available depending on the types of buildings.

2) Defensive Colonies. Imagine colonies set up that improve security within the system. Maybe Colony networks that give shipboard bonuses to the owner if they are in the system. Or maybe the colony can be linked to POS's at moons around the planet, and those POS's become stronger in some fashion.

I'm sure other people can come up with other various colonies, that have nothing to do with producing POS fuels/Structures... It will be THIS kind of variation that will make PI more enjoyable - maybe not as a specific activity, but as a way of augmenting the game.

EDIT - I should note that I'm not actually opposed to your ideas, and (even though they make no sense as gold veins don't move around) would greatly improve PI. I just latched onto the word "fun".

Berikath
Posted - 2010.08.14 18:55:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Berikath on 14/08/2010 19:02:48
Originally by: KaetheYsera
1) Allow us to move structures.

2) Regenerate resource distribution maps every week.

3) Make extractors automatically run

TADA! Suddenly we have a fun game where we need to rebuild our colonies, which is interesting, instead of restarting our extractors which is insanely boring. As an alternative, the option to automatically cycle the extractors on an entire planet with one click would make PI suck less.


Wut?

I found the problem in your post. Rebuilding colonies is not fun. It's kind of like punching yourself in the nads 25 times in a row.... then you start routing.

WTB:
1. Option to "snap to" min distance with structures.
2. Option to "copy" a factory (same input/output destination and product)
3. Better interface for routing to and from structures (e.g- there are icons for required items in a factory. Why can't we, say: click on them, then click on a location, and poof! Other structure routes that good to current structure
4. "Repeat last extraction" button on main window of an extractor.
5. Ability to expand planets on the S&I panel to show all structures on planet. Then right click on extractors -> another "repeat last extraction" button.

AAAAAAAAND my own personal pet peeve:
6. 10k m3 cans. They can both take up and contain 10k m3, I don't care about getting extra space... but ships with space for multiple launchpads worth of imports + no easy way to actually SEPARATE one launchpad's mats from another = rage for Beri.

*EDIT*

Almost forgot. Why can't we set up routes for goods that aren't in-planet yet? We can have planets where factories make P2s to supply more factories which make P3s to supply more factories which make P4s. We need to route everything to and from a storage/launchpad anyway (since sometimes 30 hours of mats get eaten during a downtime, and having 30 hours of product disappear because the destination didn't have space is.... bad.) With that in mind.... Why do I need to either A. Buy 2 hours worth of the mats I'm MAKING in order to set up the routes or B. Come back in an hour to set up routes for P3s. Then come back an hour later, and set up routes for P4s. That is just plain idiotic.

KaetheYsera
Posted - 2010.08.14 19:06:00 - [4]
 

I would argue that rebuilding colonies once a week instead of clicking on extract one to three times per day wouldn't be easier.

You don't enjoy building colonies?

I have to say, that building a colony was easily the most fun I've had with PI. Perhaps if I did it five times a week I'd change my mind. I do realize that resources would be unlikely to hop around every week, but for the sake of fun I could turn a blind eye.

Currently, as it exists I find PI to be neither exciting (like combat), relaxing (like mining/hauling) or mathematical (like trading/manufacturing).

Ari Chu
Posted - 2010.08.14 19:31:00 - [5]
 

The FIRST time I built colonies, it was cool.

Do you really think that same level of coolness will be there if you have to rebuild them every week? of course not. It'd be less tedious than logging on every day after work to reset extractors... but I wouldn't call that fun.

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2010.08.14 22:06:00 - [6]
 

I have a perfect solution

Delete your main and alts
Uninstall Eve

mmmmkay? Its like you think we don't have enough threads about suggestions on how to improve PI

KazekoYsera
Posted - 2010.08.14 22:17:00 - [7]
 

Meh. I'll keep playing EVE, I just won't be doing much with PI while it's the incredibly underwhelming experience it is.

I do think it's helpful for CCP to get feedback though, and the forums are a great way to do that. It's even possible that someone at CCP would look at the idea of making resource maps change and say "wow, a great way to make this more interactive without making it free money!". Then again maybe not. Whatever, that's their call, not yours. It might bother you off that I'm whining and crying about how I don't have a magical wish fairy, but I actually think it helps games if they have access to and react to feedback.

And here's an alt that I didn't delete. Oh noes.

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2010.08.14 22:18:00 - [8]
 

You must be new around here...CCP couldn't care about what's being posted here, so you're just screaming off in a empty dark void in the hope that someone from CCP would respond back.

Have fun

Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
Posted - 2010.08.14 23:16:00 - [9]
 

They will only do something about it if the PI actually fails i.e everyone stops doing it and cant be arsed.

As its needed for pos's i doubt that will ever happen.
The biggest problem with the system is that you cant repeat an extraction as the rates can change so you have to keep checking that. If they could somehow make a macro or some form of linked ID system that auto-scans after the extraction has run and replace the same product extraction i think it would make alot of people happy.

BUT and this i a big one:
Everyone will start doing PI meaning an overload of the market and the prices collapse or the other side is everyone is getting rich by logging in every so often and shipping it to sell so you're making isk for not playing the game.

I think that would be a bad thing and would encourage alot of new players to just use PI as an isk earner. In essence I like that if you can take the time you make money. Those hard fought clicks are worth money instead of setting up a planet and leaving it be. It would be nice tho for 2 day runs incase you cant get on for a day or two but thats unlikely to change

Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
Posted - 2010.08.15 07:30:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Pohbis on 15/08/2010 07:32:34
PI doesn't need a fix. It's working fine.

If you want it to suffer the fate of mining, go ahead, insist on claiming it is broken and ask for features that will turn it into nothing but a footnote in the EVE economy. One ran by only macros.

The only thing wrong with PI is that you can't restart extractors before the cycle runs out, which means once you decide on a cycle you're stuck with it, even tho your playing schedule changes. This does nothing to macros and only hurts the normal players.

Ari Chu
Posted - 2010.08.15 14:29:00 - [11]
 

Actually, thinking about it more.....

The OPs core suggestion is the right one: Get rid of the need to reset extractors at all - but replace it with resources that move.

I don't think "moving" the structures is a good idea ... primarily because it just sounds like the type of mechanism that will be buggy. But also because, even if it worked flawlessly, would just reduce the work aspect for both bot design and humans.... which reduces the value of PI overall.

I also think that redrawing the maps on a schedule is a bad idea. It isn't realistic, and it would actually break PI completely. Because the resources would be redistributed every week - bots could actually just leave their colonies exactly where they are... It would be less efficient than a Human colony - but the hotspots would come back on a regular basis. A better suggestion would be "migrating" hotspots.

Migration would occur daily (during DT), with every hotspot moving AWAY from extractors, the speed of which is determined by how much is being extracted. You could leave your colony set up, but it will produce less and less and less every day. This would give the greatest flexibility for colony redesign, while also giving the greatest rewards to those who are going to put the most effort in.

Combine "Migration" with the need to destroy and rebuild facilities - and now Players have to decide whether the extra extraction is worth rebuilding, or whether the cost to rebuild exceeds the marginal extraction rates that could be achieved.

Much more thinking involved, Rewards activity - but not mindless activity, would strongly discourage bots.

Make it so.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.15 21:07:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 15/08/2010 21:07:34
The drop out rate seems to be starting to bite, P1 volumes are falling and prices are rising, particularly on P1 metals.


Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.16 11:16:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari

The drop out rate seems to be starting to bite, P1 volumes are were falling and prices are rising, particularly on P1 metals.




This recovery seems to have come to a halt over the week-end. The planetary farmers have managed to increase production quite quickly.

Caldari Citizen20090217
Posted - 2010.08.16 13:01:00 - [14]
 

Quick and dirty fix:
let the cycle auto-repeat but to prevent everyone sticking it on 30min cycles have the faster extraction rates disproportionally deplete the resource. Would also allow some form of PvP: stick your 30min extractors next to some other guy's and harvest his tears Twisted Evil

Longer and less dirty fix:
Not sure. Currently the system rewards macroers and is a clickfest. Would be nice to have a system where RSI/being a 2nd job isn't the main limiter on production. Perhaps if/when CCP let us or DUSTies disrupt others PI operations they can make it require less micromanagement.


Ikserak tai
Posted - 2010.08.16 14:23:00 - [15]
 

My axe to grind with PI is that another player can virtually co-locate his colony and buildings exactly where yours are and there is nothing you can do about it. You are prevented from placing buildings too close to each other, but another player can put his/her buildings wherever they want as if yours don't exist.

PI is essentially sticking pushpins on a globe and pretending you're building a colony. There are no defensible perimeters, no "boundaries" between colony buildings from one player to another, and certainly no rational scale to any of this.

Fer crissakes, you'd need a dozen divisions of infantry to defend even a small colony.

While I do participate in PI, it has a kindergarten feel to it, and is the most unrealistic and poorly thought out aspect of Eve that exists.

Dzil
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2010.08.16 15:05:00 - [16]
 

The less people doing PI, the more my PI stuff is worth.

I wouldn't mind a "start all extractors on this planet" button though. Would serve the same benefit of getting people logged in to do it, without the click-scan-click, accept, verify routing is still intact, next x 10-18.


Xil'Vimril
Posted - 2010.08.16 16:22:00 - [17]
 

I like your idea Ari, but it isnt relevant, as pure extraction and refining as a combined method, is bulletproof, cant go wrong basically. IM saying this cos command centers are very cheap. 4 million isk per center, and you get that 4 million back after first transport run to sell the resources.

Basically i run a steady 6 planets, that includes extraction, refining, transport for sales, and on my first transport haul through lowsec to jita ( 12000 m3 of P2 resources and some p1 and p0 )and sell it, i earned 65 million in 2 days from he sell orders. i can repeat a full crane hauling process of 15 jumps, collect all the res needed for full transport every 4 days. So thats like 400 000 000 isq a month, 135 million isq in highsec. In high sec i get 35% of that value, approximately. And if in Highsec, the probability of getting shot, is virtually 0.the ONLY risk, is getting shot in lowsec becasue one is greedy, which if you handle it correct will happen maybe once per month.

if you on the other hand, only refine, meaning buy, transport it, load it up in the launchpad, and refine, launch back out, transport ,sell then you are making a much bigger risk with isq, since you have to invest, instead of extract. but that method brings alot of isq fast becaaue you can transport more often to sell.

It is beyond me how some numftie, any numftie can loose money from PI, because it is as i said, virtually impossible doing so by extraction to refining method.

Regards Xil

Dzil
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2010.08.16 17:07:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Xil'Vimril
I like your idea Ari, but it isnt relevant, as pure extraction and refining as a combined method, is bulletproof, cant go wrong basically. IM saying this cos command centers are very cheap. 4 million isk per center, and you get that 4 million back after first transport run to sell the resources.

Basically i run a steady 6 planets, that includes extraction, refining, transport for sales, and on my first transport haul through lowsec to jita ( 12000 m3 of P2 resources and some p1 and p0 )and sell it, i earned 65 million in 2 days from he sell orders. i can repeat a full crane hauling process of 15 jumps, collect all the res needed for full transport every 4 days. So thats like 400 000 000 isq a month, 135 million isq in highsec. In high sec i get 35% of that value, approximately. And if in Highsec, the probability of getting shot, is virtually 0.the ONLY risk, is getting shot in lowsec becasue one is greedy, which if you handle it correct will happen maybe once per month.

if you on the other hand, only refine, meaning buy, transport it, load it up in the launchpad, and refine, launch back out, transport ,sell then you are making a much bigger risk with isq, since you have to invest, instead of extract. but that method brings alot of isq fast becaaue you can transport more often to sell.

It is beyond me how some numftie, any numftie can loose money from PI, because it is as i said, virtually impossible doing so by extraction to refining method.

Regards Xil


There's ways to lose money at anything in EVE :)

1. Invest and abandon: people that sank a few million in, decided it wasn't their cup of tea, and left it.

2. Processor specialists: folks that build planets with mostly/all processors, then missed on market swings causing their finished product to be worth less than their starting goods.

3. Low sec loot pinada: yarr?




Berikath
Posted - 2010.08.16 22:42:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217
Quick and dirty fix:
let the cycle auto-repeat but to prevent everyone sticking it on 30min cycles have the faster extraction rates disproportionally deplete the resource. Would also allow some form of PvP: stick your 30min extractors next to some other guy's and harvest his tears Twisted Evil

Longer and less dirty fix:
Not sure. Currently the system rewards macroers and is a clickfest. Would be nice to have a system where RSI/being a 2nd job isn't the main limiter on production. Perhaps if/when CCP let us or DUSTies disrupt others PI operations they can make it require less micromanagement.


IMHO- autorepeat, but each time it autorepeats you extract 5% less (reset to the base the next time you resurvey). That way, if you click them every time you get the same amount. If you click them every other time, you get a bit less. If you set a 30-min cycle and leave it, by the next day you're losing about 92% each cycle.

Seems like it would be a good solution to me. Probably won't happen, but meh. Also, then you could tier it in a way which really kinda made sense. 30 min cycle is base, make 5h give as much as a 30-min repeated for 5 hours, make 23 give as much as a 5 hour repeated for 23, and a 96 hr give as much as a 23 repeated for 96. That way, each cycle is the best choice until you leave it for as long as the next-longest cycle, at which point you would be better off using the higher time/lower yield one. No more "2 5-hour cycles giving half again as much as a 23-hour".

Imagine This
Posted - 2010.08.16 23:03:00 - [20]
 

DUST is going to be really boring if there are only a handful of building types to fight in.

"Oh look, its another toxic metals extractor colony! I love fighting in a cluster of 16 identical extractors with 3 identical factories and 1 launchpad! such an interesting map for a FPS!"

Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries
R-I-P
Posted - 2010.08.17 14:59:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: KaetheYsera
2) Regenerate resource distribution maps every week.


PI is already beyond terrible and THIS is your suggestion?!?! Your an idiot, go away.

Ulstan
Posted - 2010.08.17 21:44:00 - [22]
 

I do not think your 'fixes' would make PI better. (And there's not much wrong with it, as long as you're running it on just one character and not 12 of them).

Having to rebuild your base is a PITA unless they put in a MUCH better system for creating routes.

Abaddon Zen
Posted - 2010.08.17 23:43:00 - [23]
 

Fix the mega click. It would help greatly if you could group extractore etc like you can weapons and recycle etc with one click instead of the clicikety clickety clickety that one has to do now.

Just a thought.

Doc Grey
Posted - 2010.08.18 00:34:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Abaddon Zen
Fix the mega click. It would help greatly if you could group extract ore etc like you can weapons and recycle etc with one click instead of the clicikety clickety clickety that one has to do now.

Just a thought.


This and the ability to route commodities better; they would be the two simplest ways to improve the industry without making it free isk.

It should require some work, or it wouldn't be industry, but at the moment it takes me easily 15 minutes to cycle all the extractors on 4 characters working 2 at a time. It's my choice to have that many running but the grind is heavy.

Ari Chu
Posted - 2010.08.18 01:24:00 - [25]
 

In my experience - the worst part of PI isn't the clicking. They are annoying, but some level of annoyance is expected for it to have value. The worst part is the compulsion to log in.


Varis Idle
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.08.22 13:41:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: KaetheYsera

1) Allow us to move structures.

2) Regenerate resource distribution maps every week.

3) Make extractors automatically run



1) Is totally unnecessary because we can already remove and rebuild them. How's this different from moving them, save you lose a trivial amount of isk?

2) This has some merit as an idea. Perhaps a gradual migration, with old resources becoming depleted and new hotspots being found every now and then. However this should be very slow. If the hotspots migrate regularly, people will just do hasty rebuilds of their colonies. Proper colony design and optimization is a fine art, and I think players should be rewarded for putting hours into prospecting and colony building. There's other reasons to relocate colonies too, so this is definitely an aspect that needs love and the OP's suggestion goes counter to it.

I think a better day-to-day timesink for colonies could be some kind of a breakdown (due to overheating?) ->manual maintenance cycle.

And running supplies to your colonies - that is already implemented by CCP, many of my P2 and P3 building colonies need lower level resources as input.

3) I understood CCP is working on this.

And yeah.. this thread really should be under Features and Ideas discussion.

Sarifa
Posted - 2010.08.29 09:55:00 - [27]
 

Really, this clicking to restart the extractors is really working on my nerves. I do not like to do monkey stuff, every time the same 75 clicks to restart these extractors. CCP, please fix this parrot-monkey clicking stuff.

Brian Ballsack
Posted - 2010.08.29 11:43:00 - [28]
 

yea stop all this clicking, if i wasnt doing PI id be doing something else in the game that didnt involve clicking........
so far all i can think of that doesnt invlove clicking is spinning my ship.

Captain Torgo
The Geedunk Expedition
Posted - 2010.08.29 14:36:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Captain Torgo on 29/08/2010 14:37:26
Originally by: KaetheYsera
I would argue that rebuilding colonies once a week instead of clicking on extract one to three times per day wouldn't be easier.

You don't enjoy building colonies?

I have to say, that building a colony was easily the most fun I've had with PI. Perhaps if I did it five times a week I'd change my mind. I do realize that resources would be unlikely to hop around every week, but for the sake of fun I could turn a blind eye.

Currently, as it exists I find PI to be neither exciting (like combat), relaxing (like mining/hauling) or mathematical (like trading/manufacturing).
lol wut?

I have:
23 Command Centers
23 Space Ports
25 Storage Facilities
185 Extractors
219 Refineries

Rebuilding them all once a week would be a nightmare. Your perception of what's broken with PI couldn't be any more wrong. What we really need right now is a way to group extractors to cut down on the mass clicking. As it is currently, to maintain the 5 hour cycles all day I have to click on my extractors a total of 740 times per day.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only