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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.08.15 05:17:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: Rip Minner
O god I cant belive I'm about to do this.
But Pottsey's right. There are two shards 1 for China and 1 for everybody alse. ..

/facepalm
What the **** is wrong with you?
Stop derailing this thread you stupid morons.
This here isn't about EVE being sharded or not.. man, leave us alone and discuss this stupidity in GD or OOP or whatever hole you guys came out of.
Darn.

@CCP, please keep us in the loop and get your head together with the CSM. Thanks!

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2010.08.15 06:31:00 - [242]
 

Thank you CCP for this Awesome thread!!!

I look forward to more information as you can share it,

Best

Apollo

Kitsune Jones
Posted - 2010.08.15 06:35:00 - [243]
 

So I'm just gonna throw this out here, since the encounter rate for wild devs is unusually high in this thread: Why not implement client UI setting overrides for systems that detect high activity? For years people've been telling each other to turn off graphics effects and stuff before jumping into a busy system for a fight, but that only works if the person knows before they jump that they're moving into an overloaded system. So just set it up so that the server pings a warning to the client that they're jumping into a seething abyss and have the client automatically switch to a stripped-down anti-lag mode to at least let the pilot load the grid and be able to act. Even if it's to jump back out or log off, that's better than crashing the client and stranding their ship without control in the destination system.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.08.15 08:56:00 - [244]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 15/08/2010 08:56:33
Phantom Slave said "When you log into EVE, do you have the option to choose a different server than TQ? "
No which is why it's a 2nd shard. When I play the D&D shard I cannot choose the US Shard nor use the same client. When I could play the Western Hellgate shard I cannot choose the other shards as they are outside my zone. One of the main reasons to have shards are for localisation and forcing the people into the local shard.

The fact you cannot choose another shard makes it more of a shard. Many definitions of shard have it so the two shards are separated.

To quote CCP's own website. "multiple servers (those are the shards) where players move out to adventures and interaction. Due to the nature of this, a player on one shard cannot interact with players from another shard."

Topic ended Eve is two shards. Let's move on and forget it. Like I said before it's not a major thing just something that bugs me.

Let's get back to lack of content, lag, bugs and everything else. Please no more talk about shards.

wizard87
Posted - 2010.08.15 10:22:00 - [245]
 

Came hoping for a slight un-nerf of the speed balancing changes. Left disappointed.

Bhattran
Posted - 2010.08.15 11:22:00 - [246]
 

Posting to confirm CCP fanboys still exist and I am apparently a troll for not being one.

Omal Oma
Shadowed Command
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.08.15 12:10:00 - [247]
 

Edited by: Omal Oma on 15/08/2010 12:12:54



@CSM People.

I understand that you guys are trying to create a list of the most popular bugs/lack in polish, aspects of EVE which the majority of players would like to see fixed. There's a flaw in this logic, many of the problems in EVE affect a small number of players and these small number of players are many times too busy leading to take the time out to "complain". Take POS setup/takedown taking upwards of eight hours for example or the SBU bug (game breaking). While theses things aren't the most popular, I feel it's due to people in high command only being able to do these things, thus having a lower percentage of people to push support behind change.

In my opinion, Corp/Alliance security and POS mechanics hould be at the top of the list, but getting the majority of the playerbase behind something like this is impossible, but anyone who has had to setup a POS, struggle with the green box, wait for a module to anchor, then wait for it to online for 4-8 hours straight will back me on this that it's by far the most broken mechanic in the game. Lets not get into trying to set permissions to help corp security and theft.

In my humble opinion, the mechanics behind corporation/alliance security needs a severe overhaul along with POS/outpost security and management.



@ CCP Explorer

I've noticed some things with fleet lag and I'm not sure where I should post this so I'll just mention it here.

I many times dual box when in fleet fights. I notice that this character gets through the gate before my other account and loads grid before my other account.

On many occasions, this character will load grid immediately where my other character will never load grid at all and take much longer to get through the gate. I've attempted testing on this with a clean cache and the same phenomena exists where my character who's name starts with an "O" gets through the gate before the character who's name starts with a "Z". Never fails when it's a fleet of 50 + jumping through.


Lastly...

Wanna get a bunch of people on SISI for testing?

Make the bet: For every player over 500, CCP will reward all pilots 1k Skill points for players who participate :)

Anyway, thanks for reading and good luck with your blogs.


Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2010.08.15 14:46:00 - [248]
 

Originally by: CCP Oveur
...
Yes, that was totally the reason. You saw right through me. It's why we now spend 20% of the time of the largest MMO development team in the world, on a 7 year game, just fixing bugs.

Well, we actually have been doing that for a very long time.

...
Only 20% on remedial work due to terrible planning, testing and execution associated with the Dominion and the fumble that was Tyrannis?

Please show your customers results before talking about how much effort CCP is putting into repairing its ****-ups. Results matter more than empty words especially at eight and a half months after the Dominion release.

After having been bent in two and given the shaft, your customers would like CCP to pull its pants up and bring the excellence of the Apocrypha release(s) to current and future gameplay -- of all types.


Originally by: CCP Zulu
Shortly after Dominion, as we've all noticed, things began reverting. This has been a problem, as we know how powerful and unique an experience a 1000+ player fleet fight can truly be. While this is all relative, as we're dealing with an exceptional gaming situation where the universe is large and un-sharded and allows for freedom of movement in the gamespace that is rarely seen elsewhere, CCP's goal is to return you to those epic space battles and then well beyond.

Shocked

This is the first time that CCP has openly and said in a straight-forward manner that Dominion was a step backwards in game performance. I am shocked that after all of the mis-direction and skirting around the 10-ton gorilla in the room, CCP took this step. Better late than never. Rolling Eyes

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.08.15 15:51:00 - [249]
 

Originally by: Omal Oma
@CSM People.

I understand that you guys are trying to create a list of the most popular bugs/lack in polish, aspects of EVE which the majority of players would like to see fixed. There's a flaw in this logic, many of the problems in EVE affect a small number of players and these small number of players are many times too busy leading to take the time out to "complain". Take POS setup/takedown taking upwards of eight hours for example or the SBU bug (game breaking). While theses things aren't the most popular, I feel it's due to people in high command only being able to do these things, thus having a lower percentage of people to push support behind change.


With all due respect, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. There is an established procedure for raising issues for the CSM to consider, and if you don't use it, it's unreasonable to expect the CSM to do all the heavy lifting. Despite what some people would have you believe, we're not a bunch of know-it-alls with our own agendas; we depend on motivated players to craft proposals that we can submit to CCP. We are your representatives, after all.

As things stand, in the current environment, getting big changes made to the game is going to be difficult. So proposals that involve minimal changes to the game mechanics but make big differences in gameplay are your best shot. I for one would love to see the Dead Horse POS proposal implemented, but TBH it isn't going to happen anytime soon. But a set of small tweaks to the existing POS mechanics could make life a lot easier.

With respect to issues like the SBU bug, I assume it's been bugreported and acknowledged as a bug by CCP? If CCP is claiming they can't reproduce it, or it is working as designed, then raise a proposal and give us as much info as you can, and maybe we can twist some arms.

Cheeba Don
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.08.15 18:19:00 - [250]
 

woohooooo!

Oveur for executive producer \o/


Thanks for taking the time to talk to us Oveur.

I now love CCP again <3


Sha Kharn
Minmatar
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.15 19:39:00 - [251]
 

Its good to talk

Swidgen
Posted - 2010.08.15 19:49:00 - [252]
 

A quick look at the CSM prioritized list of issues doesn't show this old, old, old problem: Notifications to the client of people in the "contacts watch list" (not the fleet combat watchlist) logging on and logging off do not work reliably. The same underlying bug, wherein messages from the server are not consistently and reliably relayed to the client and processed, could have some bearing on the overall lag problem.

Either the server is not preparing the message and sending it out, or the client is not processing the character logon/logoff information correctly. This should be an EASY bug to track down and fix, and just might provide some insight into how and why such "missed signals" can happen.

When you ignore the little bugs year after year, it's really not surprising that eventually you get a HUGE monster bug that baffles everyone.

Genya Arikaido
Posted - 2010.08.15 20:36:00 - [253]
 

It is good to see Oveur back... M8, you need to be CCP's face to the players. It seems you're the only one that can take it and dish it back out, while keeping the freedom to say what needs saying and not hide behind numbers and plausible deniability.

We've needed the 2003/4 Oveur back. Oveur for Community Manager 2010!! Vote now!

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2010.08.15 20:42:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: Swidgen

Either the server is not preparing the message and sending it out, or the client is not processing the character logon/logoff information correctly. This should be an EASY bug to track down and fix, and just might provide some insight into how and why such "missed signals" can happen.

When you ignore the little bugs year after year, it's really not surprising that eventually you get a HUGE monster bug that baffles everyone.



This actually got me thinking. What if some part of the code doesn't reallocate and free up the memory that is being used once it's no longer needed. Could lead to a memory leak which causes the node to run out of memory and eventually crash.

I'm sure CCP has checked for this right? right??

I'm sure that most people at some time have ran a program, or programs, that have used up pretty much all the RAM in their computer. When that happens the system becomes very slow and unresponsive. That would appear as lag to the user as the client is waiting on the server to process the info and send it, which could take a few seconds to minutes for the server to process it.

500 people sending a request, the server is out of memory and is trying to use a swap file to shuffle memory around. HD access takes much much longer than RAM access so the server is stuck swapping memory and can not process commands.

NAH, it can't be this simple to fix Sad


TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.08.15 20:52:00 - [255]
 

Originally by: Genya Arikaido
It is good to see Oveur back... M8, you need to be CCP's face to the players. It seems you're the only one that can take it and dish it back out, while keeping the freedom to say what needs saying and not hide behind numbers and plausible deniability.

We've needed the 2003/4 Oveur back.


My sentiment exactly Razz



Bhattran
Posted - 2010.08.15 23:37:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Omal Oma
Edited by: Omal Oma on 15/08/2010 12:12:54



@CSM People.

I understand that you guys are trying to create a list of the most popular bugs/lack in polish, aspects of EVE which the majority of players would like to see fixed. There's a flaw in this logic, many of the problems in EVE affect a small number of players and these small number of players are many times too busy leading to take the time out to "complain". Take POS setup/takedown taking upwards of eight hours for example or the SBU bug (game breaking). While theses things aren't the most popular, I feel it's due to people in high command only being able to do these things, thus having a lower percentage of people to push support behind change.

In my opinion, Corp/Alliance security and POS mechanics hould be at the top of the list, but getting the majority of the playerbase behind something like this is impossible, but anyone who has had to setup a POS, struggle with the green box, wait for a module to anchor, then wait for it to online for 4-8 hours straight will back me on this that it's by far the most broken mechanic in the game. Lets not get into trying to set permissions to help corp security and theft.

In my humble opinion, the mechanics behind corporation/alliance security needs a severe overhaul along with POS/outpost security and management.



@ CCP Explorer

I've noticed some things with fleet lag and I'm not sure where I should post this so I'll just mention it here.

I many times dual box when in fleet fights. I notice that this character gets through the gate before my other account and loads grid before my other account.

On many occasions, this character will load grid immediately where my other character will never load grid at all and take much longer to get through the gate. I've attempted testing on this with a clean cache and the same phenomena exists where my character who's name starts with an "O" gets through the gate before the character who's name starts with a "Z". Never fails when it's a fleet of 50 + jumping through.


Lastly...

Wanna get a bunch of people on SISI for testing?

Make the bet: For every player over 500, CCP will reward all pilots 1k Skill points for players who participate :)

Anyway, thanks for reading and good luck with your blogs.




Corporation Security/overhaul of roles etc has been brought up by the CSM and to CCP, it like all the other things Players want wait at the behest of CCP to decide to take it on or not, not being what we seem to get. We have had two years of CSM and things brought to CCP, they decide what/when/if they want/can/will do them.


Stick Cult
Posted - 2010.08.16 06:28:00 - [257]
 

Originally by: Cinori Aluben
Quote:
It's a constant, slow battle
Slow is exactly the problem unfortunately. A bit too slow per the player response, and per previous promises.

Ok, how about you go fix lag, then. Rolling Eyes

They are working on it, if you believe them that is, and I do believe that they have people working on it. I'm sure they have enough people working on it while still maintaining a business, because they all love the game as much as we do. No, really.

If they already have teams working on it, you can't really ask for more (realistically). As I've said before, fixing lag is not simply "loltypo lemme just fix that..." or "oops forgot to press this button", it is a very complex problem with many causes.

Hienz Doofenshmirtz
Posted - 2010.08.16 09:16:00 - [258]
 

I agree with stick the lag we see could be the result of many many different code sections interacting with each other. both old and new code interacting, and resulting in a slow down of information or an over taxing of user hardware. with the massive amount of code written by so many different people, finding one piece of code that fixes everything is not gonna happen.

Flibertygibbet
Posted - 2010.08.16 10:01:00 - [259]
 

The lag is caused by lack of appeasement to our god Balor. A virgin must be sacrificed!

SkinSin
Posted - 2010.08.16 10:13:00 - [260]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
We're back and enthusiastic to fight the lag monster.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, although lag is the most important issue that currently needs fixing, you also need to take a look at the mammoth pile of of broken and unfinished content, which is making eve an embarrassing product to talk about to other people.

Darth Vapour
Posted - 2010.08.16 10:48:00 - [261]
 

Originally by: Stick Cult

Ok, how about you go fix lag, then. Rolling Eyes




Sure, as of now there is a freeze on releasing new content until such time as everyone (CSM, devs, players) are in general agreement enough progress has been made in fixing bugs and the backlog.

While this does not fix lag it will at least prevent it from new broken content making things even worse, an improvement on the current situation where new, poorly tested features are coming in much faster then bugs are fixed.

zoltar pdp
WALLTREIPERS
Posted - 2010.08.16 10:58:00 - [262]
 

Edited by: zoltar pdp on 16/08/2010 10:59:42
The damage control attempt in this thread is epic, but too late for me (and others). Maybe next time you start listening when your customers start complaining, not 6 months later.

Good luck fighting the lag monster.

Soleil Fournier
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2010.08.16 11:27:00 - [263]
 

Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 16/08/2010 11:44:18

CCP is committed to excellence in it's bank account. I think that's where the issues are coming from. It's so much better sell Incarna or Dust than it is to say "Hey, we fixed all this sh*t, come play"

As far as excellence goes....Dominion was a lackluster expansion. The planets and fleet finder were awesome, the supercap changes were nice (although it took the whole of eve revolting to save them) but the sov sytem, a major central feature, failed in it's goals. Alliance sprawl wasn't reduced and it isn't easier for players to enter into 00 (mostly due to treaties being scratched). While I'm so happy to not sit for hours shooting pos's, the eve territory map hasn't changed hardly at all because the mechanics of taking space aren't really great, so 00 is stagnant. That's not excellence to me...(and I didn't even mention lag ;))

On the other hand, Apocrypha delivered, and delivered big. Tons of features, it went smoothly, and it all just seemed to work. Behind the scenes it sounds like it was havoc, but apocrypha was excellence to me because the experience was great and the fatures were fun and added depth to the game in very cool way.

Dollars and Sense and allocated development time and all that other dev mumbo-jumbo isn't what makes something excellent, the player's experiences are what determines excellence...

Overall I think CCPs doing a good job, and a lot of players are excited about incarna and dust. But the player base right now is clamoring for existing game play to be focused on. Factional Warfare, Low-sec, 00 warfare (again), and ship/combat balancing in addition to just making everyday game play features easier and more smooth. Until those issues are addressed, the player base isn't going to feel happy.

Harris Dorn
Posted - 2010.08.16 12:25:00 - [264]
 

Originally by: Ban Doga
Captain's log, Day 4

We are fighting lag, this is a good fight.
We will win easily.



Captain's log, Day 54

We are still fighting, our motivation is strong, victory is as close as never before.



Captain's log, Day 76

Lag has not been defeated yet but our motivation is growing stronger every day, our cause is as just as our efforts are great.
We will win this fight very soon.



Captain's log, Day 121

We are still at war, we will not surrender and we will win this fight!



Captain's log, Day 161

The battle continues, our motivation is still strong, fighting lag is priority 1 now.
Victory must be close.



Captain's log, Day 191

The fight against lag is continuing. Our people are enthusiastic about the fight, lag is still priority 1, our efforts are unmatched.
We are certain we will be victorious very soon now.



Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2010.08.16 12:44:00 - [265]
 

Bleh its fustrating not being able to help out with mass testings on sisi. None the less...

Analogy ridden statement wishes for good luck on discoving the causes for lag, as I find that the most important step in combating lag as it shoots up your game performance. It does absolutly no shoot an anti lag missile without a lock as one would say, unless you take a w.a.g. FOF anti lag missile and hope for the best and not hit yourself with it.

Dragon Greg
Posted - 2010.08.16 13:38:00 - [266]
 

Laughing and thanks to the professional votes EVE Online Tyrannis has won Best European Online Game Award Laughing


Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
Posted - 2010.08.16 14:23:00 - [267]
 

Good to see that quality of communication is much improving in response to player unhappiness, that's a much appreciated first step. Let's hope the game quality improvements will follow suit.

I'd very much like to echo the sentiments put forth by Malcanis and others about gameplay quality > technical quality. As a player I do not care if a perfectly coded feature is annoying to use, it is in fact broken to me. On the other hand if bad code nevertheless produces an enjoyable gameplay experience it is something I am willing to subscribe to this game for. Please do not forget this.

bitter vetiranarian
Posted - 2010.08.16 14:49:00 - [268]
 

I had a few friends over at my place Saturday evening and one of my friends who played eve back in '07 and quit to play other games brought up the kestrel plex thing and we all got talking about eve. It was great since everyone there minus my one friend and I hadn't heard of eve, and as we talked about the basic idea surrounding the game every single person there who hadn't heard of eve wanted to sign up to try it.

Then I said "Ok, but just read a few threads on their official forums first. Let me know what you decide later."

So they've all got back to me now and every single one of them said the same thing: "Awesome sounding game with lots of issues and ****ty company running it."

Number of friends brought to eve : 0.

Yes CCP, I let your forums do the convincing for me. Seems you need MOAR damage control.

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.08.16 15:19:00 - [269]
 

Hahaha. In a completely unrelated and not-so-bitter-vet reply:

Looking up Oveur on Facebook made me remember just how inherently awesome he is. Thanks for the laugh, my gold-clad angel. Laughing

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.08.16 15:24:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: Intigo
Hahaha. In a completely unrelated and not-so-bitter-vet reply:

Looking up Oveur on Facebook made me remember just how inherently awesome he is. Thanks for the laugh, my gold-clad angel. Laughing

That picture alone should scare most forum trolls to submission. Shocked


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