open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: Need for MOAR Speed
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 : last (10)

Author Topic

Malios45
Posted - 2010.08.14 04:48:00 - [181]
 

Edited by: Malios45 on 14/08/2010 04:49:17
Most major problems typically aren't caused by a single issue, but multiple issues. It must be human nature to blame and become fixated on the last straw that broke the camel's back.

Fleet lag is not a new phenomenon. It seems blaming Dominion has become a desperate cry for some to quantify a problem they don't readily understand. Luckily, this is soon to be fixed (if not already fixed) with a little education...

Keep up the good work guys.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.08.14 04:57:00 - [182]
 

Quote:

How’s this as well ACTION SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. Ya a lot of people want a “dev blog” I want RESULTS, most of us know how this works, I sure as hell do customer calls up to complain they aint got their car yet “yep we are working on it” shuts up the annoying customer that does not understand, they aint the only person with a car, and their issue is not easy. What’s “we are working on it” hoods open, and that’s about it… That might have worked a month after the issue, 9 later, no sorry. And I’ve done programming and I’ve had to debug my work, and it took forever for “stupid” mistakes… I understand you have omfg lines of code but it never took me 9 months to just be like “ya hey guys… well it turns out just throwing sh¡t out the door every 6 months and kinda turned into this mountain of sh¡t that has well, it hit



I am amazed that they devote 20% of time debugging a complex pseudo-legacy C++ software.
On a project of smaller magnitude, we had 30-40% of our teams working on maintenance 100% of their time.
We did not use SCRUM though, but older "extreme programming" methodologies instead.


Quote:

We don't know. It looks like an old issue that was possibly exacerbated by new Dominion or post-Dominion code or exacerbated by subtle different timing resulting from new or changed Dominion or post-Dominion code or changed Dominion game play behaviour. The DB session starvation overshadowed other issues so we can't pinpoint when the "blackscreening client" started



It started with FW, the first "sov-lite" system. FW woes were and are many. I sincerely hoped you'd not evolve the FW conquerable concept in 0.0 sov structures because I figured out the same code that made FW unplayable when I did it (2009) would make 0.0 unplayable as well.
In 2009 we already experienced what it is to get a system to crash with 30 (thirty) people entering in local, we experienced 10-20 minutes modules lag when jumping in or just black screening.
Also, the BSOD (black screen of death) when leaving a station is affecting EvE since years, not since Apochripha.
I am not suprised none of this feedback ever arrived to you, the GMs tend to do quick work over the submitted tickets.


Quote:

StacklessIO

CCP originally intended to release StacklessIO as open source. Some of the shiny slide presentations done by CCP at various gatherings say it will be released "soon".



I have something Oveur could ponder about, expecially if their issue is semaphores contention and similar:

ZeroMQ

They managed to make concurrent code without many of the traditional multithread hassles that plague larger softwares.
Of course it's open source.

This is exactly what CCP Oveur could be interested in:

ZeroMQ Multithreading magic

Celia Therone
Posted - 2010.08.14 05:56:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

I am amazed that they devote 20% of time debugging a complex pseudo-legacy C++ software.
On a project of smaller magnitude, we had 30-40% of our teams working on maintenance 100% of their time.

20% seemed really low to me. I would expect the bug backlog to be increasing rather than decreasing with those ratios but I'd love to see the internal bug report statistics.

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

I have something Oveur could ponder about, expecially if their issue is semaphores contention and similar:

ZeroMQ


Well, damn. That's the first technical thing I've read in months that actually makes me want to get back into coding. Have you actually used it? Do you know if it lives up to the hype?

Ban Doga
Posted - 2010.08.14 05:59:00 - [184]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Ban Doga
Originally by: CCP Explorer
To back up CCP Oveur here with the numbers:

The specific issues that cropped up in Dominion, memory leaks and DB session starvation, were fixed by February this year. The memory leaks had been fixed in December 2009. The DB session starvation was tracked down in late January, confirmed in a mass-test on Singularity on 27 January and the fix was deployed to TQ on 9 February ("TRANQUILITY HOTFIX v.6.21.127381_4"). It was not the silver bullet to end all lag but it was a big fix for a regression we could trace back to Dominion and this hotfix had a clearly measurable positive impact on fleet fight lag.

CCP Atlas wrote a dev blog about those issues on 4 Feb. In that dev blog he discussed one of the remaining issues, the "blackscreening client". We started work on that issue and deployed changes to TQ this summer to improve and mitigate it (dev blog is being planned). We haven't fixed the issue but we have improved it and are still working on it.

More fixes were deployed to TQ yesterday (12 August, "TRANQUILITY HOTFIX v.6.30.167296_10"; another dev blog is being planned to detail the results) and still more are in various stages of code review and testing (yes, you guessed it, even more dev blogs are being planned). All of these fixes involve performance enhancements to old code, not Dominion code.
Yet all this didn't fix "the lag". So maybe those bugs aren't the "big ones" that cause it.
If you read carefully then some of these fixes haven't been deployed to TQ yet so they haven't fixed lag yet. One was also only deployed yesterday so it will be interesting to see what happens this weekend. But, yes, there is more and we are actively looking for it.


I read really carefully but it appears all the fixes you mention specifically are already deployed.
Of course I didn't miss the part with "and still more are in various stages of code review and testing" but I didn't expect you stop working on the problem - considering it is still present - so that came as no surprise.

So I'd like to repeat my point: all the fixes you have deployed so far have not solved the problem.

Lynn Deniera
Caldari
The Foreign Legion
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.08.14 06:28:00 - [185]
 

Some guy in alliance explained to us very slowly why it takes so long to fix problems like this. I kinda wished I'd recorded it, coz it made us all feel less angry, and more kinda understanding.

He was just saying in general terms how you have to identify stuff, and then coz theres lots of stuff coz its an MMO, that that takes ages, then you have to fix the stuff.

So yeh. Good luck.

Darth Vapour
Posted - 2010.08.14 06:39:00 - [186]
 

Serious question to CCP: Can you name 5 bugs fixed the last 12 months ? And I don't mean fixing the defects in new stuff released in those 12 months like POSes shooting friendlies or the Primae not being able to carry certain PI items.

Five things that were a bug 12 months ago and not anymore. Going through the patch notes I can only find new content and fixes for bugs in that new content that never should have gotten through QA in the first place.

Jordan Musgrat
Convergent
Posted - 2010.08.14 07:10:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Celia Therone

2-3 developers on each (<2% of Apocrypha's team) working with the CSM could really help you with player relations and making Eve a better game to play.



Such a great idea, I'd like to hear why not. Like said before, talk is cheap. Put just a few people on fixing little things. Also, what is CCP's stance on the "low hanging fruit thing?

Tyby
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.08.14 08:25:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Darth Vapour
Serious question to CCP: Can you name 5 bugs fixed the last 12 months ? And I don't mean fixing the defects in new stuff released in those 12 months like POSes shooting friendlies or the Primae not being able to carry certain PI items.

Five things that were a bug 12 months ago and not anymore. Going through the patch notes I can only find new content and fixes for bugs in that new content that never should have gotten through QA in the first place.

this!

and also:
dev blogs are nice, and i understand that we are gonna get more dev blogs, but, after 9(NINE) months, looks like dev blogs are the only thing you guys can deliver about fixing lag ugh
i understand that a number of "fixes" where deployed, but the effect was almost 0, so don't get mad at me if i don't really count them in.
how can a company, knowing very well they'r product it's broken, choose to focus on "new stuff" instead of fixing the product first, that's beyond my understanding...Embarassed
also, all this "talk" to the player base, i must admit nice damage control Wink

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.08.14 08:27:00 - [189]
 

Quote:

Well, damn. That's the first technical thing I've read in months that actually makes me want to get back into coding. Have you actually used it? Do you know if it lives up to the hype?



The company who made (open source, no patents) ZeroMQ, iMatix, are those who in an earlier iteration participated to a similar (more classic approach) system called AMQP used by financial institutions. Current partners are Intel, Novell, QNX Systems...

... not exactly your one man permanent zero dot something Sourceforge release I'd say.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.08.14 09:17:00 - [190]
 

Deb Blog said "we're dealing with an exceptional gaming situation where the universe is large and un-sharded and allows for freedom of movement in the gamespace that is rarely seen elsewhere, CCP's goal is to return you to those epic space battles and then well beyond."
It really bugs me reading things like that. Eve is not un-sharded. It's very much a sharded game now. Separated player base's on different servers makes it a sharded game.

In fact out of the big Space MMO's I can think off Eve is the most sharded game, perhaps even the only sharded one.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.08.14 09:29:00 - [191]
 

Nathan,

It is encouraging to see you engaging with the players. I hope that, sleep permitting, you will continue to do so.

As a programmer, I can empathize with your position with regard to Apocrypha, but at the same time, as a player, the opinion of posters such as Malcanis is entirely reasonable.

In truth, the two positions are not incompatible; it is just that they are describing two different issues. From a development perspective, the technical debt incurred by Apocrypha is troubling, and any prudent developer would take steps to avoid making the same mistake twice. At the same time, from the perspective of the players, Apocrypha was one of the best expansions ever.

So, how can we have our cake, and eat it too?

In a perfect world, you and your team would be able to produce Apocrypha-level expansions every 6 months without incurring significant technical debt. But we all (and by that I mean everyone participating in this thread, devs and players alike) know that in the real world, with the resources you have available, that is, shall we say, a wee bit optimistic.

So smaller expansions, well-implemented and delivered, are entirely reasonable -- and it is good to hear that you are thinking along those lines.

It's been stated once or twice (grin) that 20% of dev time is allocated to bug fixing -- that is, fixing defects in the code-base. This is obviously a good idea.

However, I would like to re-iterate the position of the CSM, as expressed at the Summit, that some % of dev time be specifically allocated to polish.

Some of the benefits of doing this are:

* It produces continuous improvement in aspects of the game that are visible to players.

* Assuming dev-hours are reasonably fungible, it provides a resource cushion when the fecal matter hits the rotary impeller towards the end of an expansion's development cycle.

* Most polish items are small and self-contained improvements, which means you can push them out during point releases; a steady stream of nuggets of good news.

If you look at the CSM's prioritized lists, you'll see that the vast majority of them are polish items (and most of those are UI-related). We look forward to see how many of them get development time this fall, and remember, the CSM stands ready to iterate any and all of them with you to make them as easy to implement as possible (and hopefully get a few more done).

We may not be able to have our cake and eat it too, but we should be able to have our cupcakes and eat them too.

Finally, I would like to invite you and all the devs who have not yet discovered the joys of the Top Secret Internal CSM Forum and Day Spa to drop by on a regular basis. The back-and-forth communication that is already going on there is very useful to everyone involved, and has already had some tangible benefits.

For example, experienced forum warriors will have noticed that the post timer has been changed from 5 minutes down to 2 minutes. This was a change requested by CSM and approved by CCP some time ago, but never implemented.

Because of a conversation in the CSM Forum, we learned what happened (higher priority items pushed it down the list and then off the radar of the devs who could implement the change -- which relates back to my comments above about polish time) and why it didn't get noticed. Everyone involved got something useful from the discussion.

The unintended consequence, of course, is that the forums are now "New and Improved, with 150% more trolling!"

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.14 10:01:00 - [192]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
Deb Blog said "we're dealing with an exceptional gaming situation where the universe is large and un-sharded and allows for freedom of movement in the gamespace that is rarely seen elsewhere, CCP's goal is to return you to those epic space battles and then well beyond."
It really bugs me reading things like that. Eve is not un-sharded. It's very much a sharded game now. Separated player base's on different servers makes it a sharded game.

In fact out of the big Space MMO's I can think off Eve is the most sharded game, perhaps even the only sharded one.



I was going to correct you, but it's a waste of time. I'll just go straight to politely requesting that you shush.

Ban Doga
Posted - 2010.08.14 10:04:00 - [193]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
For example, experienced forum warriors will have noticed that the post timer has been changed from 5 minutes down to 2 minutes. This was a change requested by CSM and approved by CCP some time ago, but never implemented.

Because of a conversation in the CSM Forum, we learned what happened (higher priority items pushed it down the list and then off the radar of the devs who could implement the change -- which relates back to my comments above about polish time) and why it didn't get noticed. Everyone involved got something useful from the discussion.


That's a very sad story.

Ideally such a change would require a change in the configuration in the forum software and (maybe) bouncing the web-servers. That would require 0 development time and could be done by admins.
If implemented poorly this will require a code change, building a deployment artefact and deploying.
Let's say a whole day for that.

If you really cannot afford to spend 1 day (or less) to deliver a requested, approved and quite anticipated change request for your customers your development process can be called a lot, but definitely not agile.

Technical debt is bad and kills software projects in the long run if left uncontrolled.
But you are the only ones to blame. It's like telling your bank that you cannot afford to pay your mortgage any more because your financial planning sucks. What do you expect, a pat on the head and a nice "Oh well if THAT is the reason just continue to do as you see fit. We'll wait for your next financial plan..."?

If you have to take on a great amount of technical debt to finish a release this means you have greatly overstressed your abilities and did not realize that in time and/or kept pushing forward using "shortcuts".
That was over one year ago.
If technical debt is still slowing you down you not only accumulated far too much of it, you also didn't reduce it fast enough.
Looks like trying to fix one mistake by making another one...

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.08.14 10:05:00 - [194]
 

The holy trinity of game development: Game Designer, Programmer, Artist. Create such a team to go through the backlog where all the CSM issues also end up.

They can tackle the things they're capable of and create game design documents of those they can't do on their own. Those GDDs contain a estimate for required resources in manpower and time and get sorted by resource need and design category.

Then they can be packaged to fit into a scrum sprint and/or spread into normal development cycles. Once the trinity is through the backlog, it can apply for more resources to work on the bigger objects they have identified or sorted into other teams that can use them.

This way you can basically guarantee that every expansion has some points the player base has been yearning for and you don't need to completely rewrite your design plan to make those issues fit in.

Well, at least this sounds good from an outside point of view. You know more about your resources than I do. But three people would be the minimum need to get this rolling.

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.14 10:41:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Nathan,
It is encouraging to see you engaging with the players. I hope that, sleep permitting, you will continue to do so.



This i happily quote, and im sure the man knows his programming, i struggle with setting up a mIrc client ;)

Tho after 6 years of eve i know abit about pewpew (and carebearing) and while lag is a downer in many situations, its not my top concern even as a 0.0 dweller since the beginning.
If i could choose between things "fixed", id go for an removal of the remnants of the Tier system for ships and mods which still leaves many of them unused. That and balancing ships that are obviously not able to compete with others in their class, the Hel as the most prominent example.

The nanonerf and web/scram change was one of my favourite change to the game because it enhanced the gameplay so much, lag pales in comparison to me. There were two changes to ships to lighten the grip of the tier system on ships, the result was a huge number of t1 ships flown again. It would be great to have something similar again to be able to choose from more ships and more mods as the complexity of eve is its biggest appeal to me.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.08.14 10:44:00 - [196]
 

Malcanis said " I was going to correct you, but it's a waste of time. I'll just go straight to politely requesting that you shush."
Its not a waste of time, if I am wrong I will listen and learn. Please explain how I am wrong. I don't like going around saying things that are wrong.

How I am wrong? I thought a shard was a copy of the same game on different servers with each server being a shard. Sharded games have players split over the different servers normally being unable to interact with each other. Sometimes other shards have slightly different rules like a role-play shard or sometimes slightly different versions of the same game. But the key point is different servers with separated player base's. That's what Eve is. So Eve is a sharded games as the players are split over different shards. You cannot buy a ship on one shard and fly it on the other shard.

Every other space MMO I have played that is still alive is non-sharded. Eve is the only one that is sharded.

Ebisu Kami
Posted - 2010.08.14 11:02:00 - [197]
 

Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 14/08/2010 11:04:09
Originally by: Pottsey
Its not a waste of time, if I am wrong I will listen and learn. Please explain how I am wrong. I don't like going around saying things that are wrong.

How I am wrong? I thought a shard was a copy of the same game on different servers with each server being a shard. Sharded games have players split over the different servers normally being unable to interact with each other. Sometimes other shards have slightly different rules like a role-play shard or sometimes slightly different versions of the same game. But the key point is different servers with separated player base's. That's what Eve is. So Eve is a sharded games as the players are split over different shards. You cannot buy a ship on one shard and fly it on the other shard.

Every other space MMO I have played that is still alive is non-sharded. Eve is the only one that is sharded.



Are you like... you know... stoned or so? Yes, you know, what sharded means, guessing from what you wrote, but how on earth and between all the stars does the meaning of the adjective 'sharded' apply to EVE?

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.08.14 11:16:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: Ban Doga
That's a very sad story.


Hey, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". The important thing is that we identified the issue, and we will develop procedures so that CSM can monitor things more closely in the future.

Venetian Tar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.08.14 11:34:00 - [199]
 

Does this mean I can re-sub my alts now?

Quantessa
Posted - 2010.08.14 11:42:00 - [200]
 

Great work, great communication, thanks very much for such an excellent game.

I am looking forward to playing Eve for decades.

Ban Doga
Posted - 2010.08.14 11:49:00 - [201]
 

Edited by: Ban Doga on 14/08/2010 11:50:04
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Ban Doga
That's a very sad story.


Hey, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". The important thing is that we identified the issue, and we will develop procedures so that CSM can monitor things more closely in the future.


The underlying pattern to a lot of the unresolved issues is that small(er) fixes are being delayed in favour of big(ger) changes that take more time and resources.
Eventually leading to the situation we have now with hundreds of little things that just don't work well and plans of breaking new MMO ground soon and returning to fixing more things later.

That's pretty exactly the opposite of what agile development methods like Scrum are about.
I wasn't aware pointing to this is considered to be as severe as stoning.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.08.14 11:59:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
We don't know. It looks like an old issue that was possibly exacerbated by new Dominion or post-Dominion code or exacerbated by subtle different timing resulting from new or changed Dominion or post-Dominion code or changed Dominion game play behaviour. The DB session starvation overshadowed other issues so we can't pinpoint when the "blackscreening client" started
It started with FW, the first "sov-lite" system. FW woes were and are many. I sincerely hoped you'd not evolve the FW conquerable concept in 0.0 sov structures because I figured out the same code that made FW unplayable when I did it (2009) would make 0.0 unplayable as well. In 2009 we already experienced what it is to get a system to crash with 30 (thirty) people entering in local, we experienced 10-20 minutes modules lag when jumping in or just black screening.
The problem with this theory is that the FW lag problems were identified and traced to a service called Crime Watch. This is a service that runs in empire (low and high sec), monitors criminal behaviour and notifies CONCORD. First of all those problems were fixed and secondly then this service doesn't run in 0.0.
Quote:
Also, the BSOD (black screen of death) when leaving a station is affecting EvE since years, not since Apochripha.
Yes, we suspect that is true since the code changes we have made so far because of this issue have all been in old code.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.08.14 12:07:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: Ban Doga
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Ban Doga
Originally by: CCP Explorer
The specific issues that cropped up in Dominion, memory leaks and DB session starvation, were fixed by February this year. The memory leaks had been fixed in December 2009. The DB session starvation was tracked down in late January, confirmed in a mass-test on Singularity on 27 January and the fix was deployed to TQ on 9 February ("TRANQUILITY HOTFIX v.6.21.127381_4"). It was not the silver bullet to end all lag but it was a big fix for a regression we could trace back to Dominion and this hotfix had a clearly measurable positive impact on fleet fight lag.

CCP Atlas wrote a dev blog about those issues on 4 Feb. In that dev blog he discussed one of the remaining issues, the "blackscreening client". We started work on that issue and deployed changes to TQ this summer to improve and mitigate it (dev blog is being planned). We haven't fixed the issue but we have improved it and are still working on it.

More fixes were deployed to TQ yesterday (12 August, "TRANQUILITY HOTFIX v.6.30.167296_10"; another dev blog is being planned to detail the results) and still more are in various stages of code review and testing (yes, you guessed it, even more dev blogs are being planned). All of these fixes involve performance enhancements to old code, not Dominion code.
Yet all this didn't fix "the lag". So maybe those bugs aren't the "big ones" that cause it.
If you read carefully then some of these fixes haven't been deployed to TQ yet so they haven't fixed lag yet. One was also only deployed yesterday so it will be interesting to see what happens this weekend. But, yes, there is more and we are actively looking for it.
I read really carefully but it appears all the fixes you mention specifically are already deployed.
Of course fixes that I mention specifically with dates and hotfix numbers have all been deployed; I'm not a psychic.
Quote:
Of course I didn't miss the part with "and still more are in various stages of code review and testing" but I didn't expect you stop working on the problem - considering it is still present - so that came as no surprise.

So I'd like to repeat my point: all the fixes you have deployed so far have not solved the problem.
You are repeating yourself.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.08.14 12:13:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
Deb Blog said "we're dealing with an exceptional gaming situation where the universe is large and un-sharded and allows for freedom of movement in the gamespace that is rarely seen elsewhere, CCP's goal is to return you to those epic space battles and then well beyond."

It really bugs me reading things like that. Eve is not un-sharded. It's very much a sharded game now. Separated player base's on different servers makes it a sharded game.

In fact out of the big Space MMO's I can think off Eve is the most sharded game, perhaps even the only sharded one.
I don't understand. TQ is a single cluster and all players on TQ can travel between any solar system, chat across the universe, buy and sell on the market anywhere, etc.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.08.14 12:14:00 - [205]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
If you look at the CSM's prioritized lists, you'll see that the vast majority of them are polish items (and most of those are UI-related). We look forward to see how many of them get development time this fall, and remember, the CSM stands ready to iterate any and all of them with you to make them as easy to implement as possible (and hopefully get a few more done).

We may not be able to have our cake and eat it too, but we should be able to have our cupcakes and eat them too.

Finally, I would like to invite you and all the devs who have not yet discovered the joys of the Top Secret Internal CSM Forum and Day Spa to drop by on a regular basis. The back-and-forth communication that is already going on there is very useful to everyone involved, and has already had some tangible benefits.

For example, experienced forum warriors will have noticed that the post timer has been changed from 5 minutes down to 2 minutes. This was a change requested by CSM and approved by CCP some time ago, but never implemented.

Because of a conversation in the CSM Forum, we learned what happened (higher priority items pushed it down the list and then off the radar of the devs who could implement the change -- which relates back to my comments above about polish time) and why it didn't get noticed. Everyone involved got something useful from the discussion.

The unintended consequence, of course, is that the forums are now "New and Improved, with 150% more trolling!"

Well while you have the web guys at hand, please have them look at issue 85 and update the forum rules section by changing two digits from 24 to 75. Wink

Bojan Z
Kernel of War
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.08.14 12:24:00 - [206]
 

Thanks for the dev blog. This is a huge step in the right direction.

Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.08.14 12:33:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Pottsey
Deb Blog said "we're dealing with an exceptional gaming situation where the universe is large and un-sharded and allows for freedom of movement in the gamespace that is rarely seen elsewhere, CCP's goal is to return you to those epic space battles and then well beyond."

It really bugs me reading things like that. Eve is not un-sharded. It's very much a sharded game now. Separated player base's on different servers makes it a sharded game.

In fact out of the big Space MMO's I can think off Eve is the most sharded game, perhaps even the only sharded one.
I don't understand. TQ is a single cluster and all players on TQ can travel between any solar system, chat across the universe, buy and sell on the market anywhere, etc.

You don't have to understand. That's Pottsey, he is very special. In fact, to understand him you would need completely different degree than software engineering.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.08.14 12:35:00 - [208]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 14/08/2010 12:39:50
CCP Explorer said " I don't understand. TQ is a single cluster and all players on TQ can travel between any solar system, chat across the universe, buy and sell on the market anywhere, etc."
Yes TQ is a single shard but it's not the only shard. The Tranquility shard cannot chat, buy, sell, kill or interact with the Serenity shard. There are two district servers with two groups of players. Hence why I call Eve a sharded game. It's not a major thing is just bugs me when people call Eve a single universe with only one shard. When you can have friends on a different shard you cannot play with. You don't go around calling other games single sharded just because the shards are in different county's. How can we call Eve a single-universe when there is more than 1 copy of the universe running?


Ebisu Kami said " Are you like... you know... stoned or so? Yes, you know, what sharded means, guessing from what you wrote, but how on earth and between all the stars does the meaning of the adjective 'sharded' apply to EVE?"
Excluding the Singularity shard as its not fair to count that, I see two shards with two groups of players. How does that not count as sharded? Are you using a different definition of shard so a 2nd server and 2nd group of players is not a shard?

iP0D
Posted - 2010.08.14 12:43:00 - [209]
 

Edited by: iP0D on 14/08/2010 12:44:50
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Pottsey
Deb Blog said "we're dealing with an exceptional gaming situation where the universe is large and un-sharded and allows for freedom of movement in the gamespace that is rarely seen elsewhere, CCP's goal is to return you to those epic space battles and then well beyond."

It really bugs me reading things like that. Eve is not un-sharded. It's very much a sharded game now. Separated player base's on different servers makes it a sharded game.

In fact out of the big Space MMO's I can think off Eve is the most sharded game, perhaps even the only sharded one.
I don't understand. TQ is a single cluster and all players on TQ can travel between any solar system, chat across the universe, buy and sell on the market anywhere, etc.


There is nothing to understand, it's Pottsey. The only Capsuleer who has a genetic intolerance to Attribute Enhancement Implants. This on top of the case of Sharded Personality Disorder Cool


Hack Harrison
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.14 13:26:00 - [210]
 

Edited by: Hack Harrison on 14/08/2010 13:29:29
Originally by: Pottsey
Deb Blog said "we're dealing with an exceptional gaming situation where the universe is large and un-sharded and allows for freedom of movement in the gamespace that is rarely seen elsewhere, CCP's goal is to return you to those epic space battles and then well beyond."
It really bugs me reading things like that. Eve is not un-sharded. It's very much a sharded game now. Separated player base's on different servers makes it a sharded game.

In fact out of the big Space MMO's I can think off Eve is the most sharded game, perhaps even the only sharded one.


Suggest you learn what sharding is - pretty sure that Kestral going down with 74 plexes happened in EVERYONES universe, thereby proving Eve is a single shard. You are confusing multi SERVER with multi SHARD...

Edit - Chinese HAVE to have a different server due to THEIR gaming laws. As far as we are concerned - Tranquility is the only server in the world as the other one hides behind the Great Firewall of China...

You still posted a dumb comment Very Happy


Pages: first : previous : ... 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 : last (10)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only