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Vee Raa
Minmatar
Cadre Assault Force
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:00:00 - [91]
 

it's like buying a concert ticket, and then entering a Hell's Angels bar in your last years Gaybar dressing contest suit.

Quote:
Jita


Quote:
war dec/flashy red



Hulkageddon Jackpot
Amarr
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:01:00 - [92]
 

Just for the record, I'm personally perfectly fine with PLEXs popping. I'm just fascinated by the question.


Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Not Found.
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:01:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Shawna Gray
I can sell any ship or ingame weapons for this ingame item to get a realworld service.


Apart the fact that this is the primary function of a Plex, it is not the case for a ship.

Xhae
podgoo.net
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:10:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Hulkageddon Jackpot
Just for the record, I'm personally perfectly fine with PLEXs popping. I'm just fascinated by the question.




Seconded, though I have concerns about the relevance of a Stanford professor's knowledge to the jurisdiction in which CCP operate.

Xhae
podgoo.net
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:15:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Sky Marshal
Originally by: Shawna Gray
I can sell any ship or ingame weapons for this ingame item to get a realworld service.


Apart the fact that this is the primary function of a Plex, it is not the case for a ship.


The in-game item arguably represents the potential for a real-world service, the right to which is voided by the item's loss.

You could previously lose the item by selling it (for any price, 300,000 ISK being a popular Want To Buy.)

CCP have (loudly) announced that said in-game item will be treated like every other in-game item, and as such you can lose it (and the right to game time which it contains) in the same manner as every other in-game item.

RifterDrifter
La Blue Girl
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:16:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Cheap Dude

Well.. you can't blame CCP for the player to screw up.. but you CAN blame CCP for not dropping those plexes. The player lost the plexes because he was stupid to undock with them in such a ship.. but the agressor (looter) should have been given those plexes.


Sure, Plexes should always drop right? RONG

The Plexes where quite likely stacked, so the single stack of 74 plexes had a 50% probability of dropping.

Hulkageddon
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:18:00 - [97]
 

It's pretty simple actually:

Stupid is as stupid does.

SupaKudoRio
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:19:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Hulkageddon Jackpot
Simply out of interest, I have forwarded the query of whether or not what happened here is "ok" or not to a professor at Stanford.

I will be most intrigued by the response, I hope he has time for us :)


I am also intrigued to know what response you get. Razz I will fall about laughing if he comes back saying it's not legal; hello new ****storm for CCP to deal with as people claim back their cash after being ******s in game.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:24:00 - [99]
 

hmmm how did this happen.

1. Jita
2. Lots of expensive items
3. Like everyone else that is on the wall of Epic Legendary Fails, they used the wrong ship, you do not haul expensive stuff in a frigate.
4. wardec/gcc
5. Attackers prolly had a lot of neutral RSB on them along with their own sensor boosters.


Which brings me to the question, do people ever check their aggro timer, kill rights, and or active war decs before they undock? Its like not checking your autopilot and flying through rancer.

Vontan
Relentless Construction
IT Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:28:00 - [100]
 

I hate people. Only profane language removed. Navigator would spend $1100 real cash and lose it like that. Seriously, if you want any more proof that having money does not make you smart or better than someone else, look no further than that killmail. I hope he cried into his pillow until it was a soaked mess.

B0FROST
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:30:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Hulkageddon Jackpot
Just for the record, I'm personally perfectly fine with PLEXs popping. I'm just fascinated by the question.
Totally legit.
CCP is selling a service (GTCs) for hard cash. If a player chooses to use this service he gets either a) 60 days of playtime added to his account, or b) 2xPLEX, which can be used in-game for the exact same thing.

Here stops the business transaction. What said person does after this, is his and his own agenda.

Imagine: you buy a real-ultra-cool LED tv at your local Radio Shack. The second after you paid a fortune, you can do "what ever you want" with your new tv. Drive it home and plug it in, toss it into a dumpster or give it to your neighbors. It is not the business of Radio Shack what you do or will do with it!

For RL reference we rule out the possibility of ganking or piracy: You bought the TV with a massive discount and want to sell it to your redneck cousins 300km away. Making a good profit. Would it be Radio Shacks fault, if you'd have an accident on the way there? Would the insurance of Radio Shack pay if you are too f?cking stupid to drive?



I hereby rest my case your honor!

Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:38:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Mire Stoude on 07/08/2010 23:42:35
This was lost in Jita. This is, most likely, someone who put out a buy order for PLEXes and acquired 74 of them (cheaply) with game money. The people who actually put real money to buy them got their Dollar's (or Euro's) worth.

In any case, he was hauling 22b worth of a commodity. He should have been smarter. An Abaddon with 250k of EHP, MWD and a cloak would have been better. Probably would have cost 200m to put together and could have been sold at the destination system for more than he bought it for.

EDIT: If he lost it to war targets in Jita he is deserving of a Darwin award.

Derus Grobb
Minmatar
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:41:00 - [103]
 

Haha, brilliant

Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:42:00 - [104]
 

Wow.. You guys REALLY think CCP made PLEX undockable to get easy money?
Rolling Eyes

People would buy those PLEX anyway, and CCP would provide the server in the same way, even if they were not bought, or not destroyed.

Nothing changes for CCP here, just for the player. The player is paying the price for stupidity, and seriously... If this is not fake, this player deserved it. It's good for him he just lost 1000$ over a game if he learns the lesson.

Quaaid
Caldari
EVE Pilot Help Center
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:46:00 - [105]
 

Grats to the 0rphanage!

Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Not Found.
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:46:00 - [106]
 

Edited by: Sky Marshal on 07/08/2010 23:58:03

Originally by: Xhae
The in-game item arguably represents the potential for a real-world service, the right to which is voided by the item's loss.

You could previously lose the item by selling it (for any price, 300,000 ISK being a popular Want To Buy.)

CCP have (loudly) announced that said in-game item will be treated like every other in-game item, and as such you can lose it (and the right to game time which it contains) in the same manner as every other in-game item.


Apart the fact that you have bought game time in the first place, whatever the form it has. There is still an IRL connection. This is why it can exist a problem with the "item's loss", and why there are different perceptions.

Contracts are different as the Plex will remain alive anyway, whatever the amount of ISK won or lost. Here is a different case.

For the rest, I agree that CCP warned players with the opening EVE window and many others ways. I don't forget the player's responsability and he was very dumb honestly, but still, I don't agree with the logic of CCP.

Plexes are still special items. Normal items can be produced or looted by ingame methods, not Plexes, and they don't give a RL service.


Originally by: B0FROST
Here stops the business transaction. What said person does after this, is his and his own agenda.

Imagine: you buy a real-ultra-cool LED tv at your local Radio Shack. The second after you paid a fortune, you can do "what ever you want" with your new tv. Drive it home and plug it in, toss it into a dumpster or give it to your neighbors. It is not the business of Radio Shack what you do or will do with it!


Your RL reference is wrong because CCP still have an obligation of service who remains as long as the Plex exist (add game time). Your TV seller, once it is sold, it is all, there is no service provided with it (maybe yes if you bought warranty extension or anything like this, and depending of what it will concern). So it can't be used for Plexes.

I did in the post #30 a comparison with life insurances, probably more correct to describe them.

London
Imminent Ruin
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:50:00 - [107]
 

Amazing. Dude has probably gone killed himself by this point... because if your spending that much on a computer game, you have nothing else going on. ugh

Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:54:00 - [108]
 

So.. If you buy game cards and set them on fire, you think ... oh god
Rolling Eyes

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:55:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 07/08/2010 23:56:15
Originally by: Sky Marshal
Your RL reference is wrong because CCP still have an obligation of service who remains as long as the Plex exist.
What trips people up, I think, is that they don't realise that the player can choose to relieve CCP of this obligation at any point. Having a possbility of being lost in a fiery explosion is just a new way of doing that, and nothing that hasn't existed before.

Yes, CCP have an obligation to provide you with game time if you choose to cash in on that service, but that's not the only available choice. Why should they have that obligation if you choose not to call them on this promise and instead delete it?

Rowbin Hod
InterSun Freelance
The Forsaken.
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:56:00 - [110]
 

Edited by: Rowbin Hod on 07/08/2010 23:57:22
Not that this thread needs any more opinions, but anyway.

Originally by: Xhae

CCP have (loudly) announced that said in-game item will be treated like every other in-game item, and as such you can lose it (and the right to game time which it contains) in the same manner as every other in-game item.


Can you help me then? I tried right clicking on a nanofiber internal structure II in my hanger, but there wasn't an option to apply 30 days of game time. Tried it too with a packaged (and unpackaged) Caldari shuttle, but I didn't get this option either. Weird.

They are *NOT* the same as any other in game item, and never will be. They are unique, and hiding behind a "we want all items to be the same" facade is complete bs.

For the record, I have very little sympathy for the person who lost the plex, it was a dumb move. I don't think arguments that use the terms "legal", "fraud", "EULA" etc are accurate, because, IMO, CCP haven't technically done anything wrong. All I would say is that the moral standpoint is quite fuzzy. I'm not happy that ccp are taking $1000 from the playerbase for gametime, and not providing that gametime. And that **** about "CCP fulfilled their part of the transaction blah blah" just doesn't stick. 100% drop rate would not be too much to ask for an item which is absolutely unique.

Makar Kravchenko
Posted - 2010.08.08 00:07:00 - [111]
 

GET IN THE CAR NOW, STAN!

Adacia Calla
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.08.08 00:14:00 - [112]
 

When CCP implemented the change, they didn't think there was anyone as stupid as this guy.

As said many times already, darwin was right.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.08.08 00:21:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Rowbin Hod
They are unique,
...
100% drop rate would not be too much to ask for an item which is absolutely unique.


Which one of the 74 in the stack was the unique one?

GateScout
Posted - 2010.08.08 00:22:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: GateScout on 08/08/2010 00:22:22
Awesome. Simply awesome. Very Happy

Moving PLEX in a kestral while war dec'd.

That's priceless.

Demitrios
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2010.08.08 00:48:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Demitrios on 08/08/2010 01:05:25
Originally by: Wave Nagai
Originally by: Aessoroz
Over $1000 down the drain.


Not exactly. It goes straight into CCP's wallet.


Soooo, yea, down the drain.

*edit*

Also the general theme in this thread is that the guy bought the plex's and therefore ccp has completed the contract, as the guy owns them. BUT WAIT! He doesnt own them, CCP own everything in game and we just get to see/use them.

Tbh, ive got a headache atm and cant be bothered with the argument, but nice kill anyway.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2010.08.08 00:50:00 - [116]
 

I have no direct knowledge of how they work now, but you should get a warning when you undock if you have plex in your cargo.

If you do not, then CCP should fix it now. You get warnings for slaves, etc ...

If I had to guess, I would say they guy did a control + A and undocked, not thinking for a moment...

Horrifying, truly horrifying. Real Cash shouldn't burn in game.

Bacon Slapper
Minmatar
Red Federation
Posted - 2010.08.08 00:54:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: Bacon Slapper on 08/08/2010 01:09:20
So.. according to some of the posters here. If I pay 20 dollars to play paintball on a companies fields/scenarios for the day, 50 for paintballs and CO2 or nitro. Walk to the fort - capture the flag course and decide to casually dance up to the fort while listening to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjW1iq4IO2k on my walkman before being cut down in an overwhelming hail of flying paint. I can accuse the company of fraud because I have to sit out for an hour or until the match ends, instead of playing paintball. I can probably get like 5 bucks back, or they go to jail!! Thanks for the tip guys!

RifterDrifter
La Blue Girl
Posted - 2010.08.08 00:55:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
I have no direct knowledge of how they work now, but you should get a warning when you undock if you have plex in your cargo.


He didn't undock, he got popped by Wartargets after warping to 4-4 before he could dock.

veltorse
Posted - 2010.08.08 00:58:00 - [119]
 

CCP gains money from people buying gtc's and turning them into plex or actually paying for 2 plex's from the site

people who sell the said plex make isk

this guy who most likely bought all the plex's to sell at other places to earn profit just lossed 22bil isk and now feels the same way as some one who lost a Titan

until either He or a corp who knows what exactly happened or ccp's can actually verify what happened it stands as

CCP=win
people(s) who sold the plex's= win
dumb**** who undocked with 22bil worth of cargo in jita in something that so fragile= epic lose

Anitta Blake
BSC LEGION
Split Infinity.
Posted - 2010.08.08 01:04:00 - [120]
 

I fully support the change in Game Mechanics that removed the restriction on undocking from a station with a PLEX making them a Destroyable item.

but given the the number of 30 day Pilot's License's that may be Destroyed as a result of the new mechanics adding up to thousands of dollars.

I feel cpp should give a percentage of the profit in this case to a charity due the the fact it no longer has to honor 30 days of game time that was paid up front when the plex was purchased.


add your support for this proposal


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