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Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.08.10 11:55:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Misunderstood Genius
CCP will take the chance that player "risk" ingame their RL money.
This should not happen because then it's NOT a game anymore. My opinion.


I disagree, on the basis that EVERYTHING in EVE is "bought," in some form or another. Whether my 700 isk Navy-Issue Raven was purchased for $30+ through PLEXes, or through weeks of leveling and grinding on a paid subscription, the result is the same. EVE is a game in the sense that poker is a game--you're playing against other people, and you're gambling earned items that can be permanently lost.

EVE makes more sense when you think of it as inherently gambling, and your issues with it will then probably be made on that front.

Jojo Redana
Posted - 2010.08.10 12:06:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Nathan Jameson
EVE is a game in the sense that poker is a game--you're playing against other people, and you're gambling earned items that can be permanently lost.


If you play poker and during the game the house says "sorry these 100 euros chips on the table are destroyed now, not valid anymore sorry". And it's just part of the game.

In poker you will buy chips and play with chips. They won't destroy the chips. At least not in my country.

Harassment 00129
Posted - 2010.08.10 12:07:00 - [123]
 

LOL sooo funny imo heh

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.08.10 12:14:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Jojo Redana
In poker you will buy chips and play with chips. They won't destroy the chips. At least not in my country.


Ah, so your issue is that the PLEXes didn't drop, decreasing the overall amount of capital to be gambled in the game. That was not immediately clear in your earlier post.

I can see the validity in that argument. From what I can tell, many other items go to the "item graveyard" or have their worth replenished in asteroid fields, etc. What about PLEXes or their equivalent?

I can see an inherent complexity to the problem, since they can either be turned into game time (no direct increase in overall market) or entered into the market as a new item for trade.

Prince Spiderman
Posted - 2010.08.10 12:26:00 - [125]
 

Edited by: Prince Spiderman on 10/08/2010 12:30:05
Originally by: Jojo Redana
Originally by: Nathan Jameson
EVE is a game in the sense that poker is a game--you're playing against other people, and you're gambling earned items that can be permanently lost.


If you play poker and during the game the house says "sorry these 100 euros chips on the table are destroyed now, not valid anymore sorry". And it's just part of the game.

In poker you will buy chips and play with chips. They won't destroy the chips. At least not in my country.


Hmmm, it's like you win the Poker session but the "bank" will take your win randomly and they make additional income beside selling chips.
This is exactly what CCP is doing. The PLEX is indeed a special case and IMO CCP need to reconsider if player should be able to move PLEX around with the risk of losing them.

Jojo Redana
Posted - 2010.08.10 12:35:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Nathan Jameson

Ah, so your issue is that the PLEXes didn't drop, decreasing the overall amount of capital to be gambled in the game. That was not immediately clear in your earlier post.


Nah, i don't care about the PLEX's. I just pointed out that they are not destroying chips in a poker game.

It's fun when someone looses big and quits. Someone told me it's fun, so it must be :)

ziapina
Posted - 2010.08.10 13:04:00 - [127]
 

Not sure how this hasnt come out yet as there are a LOT of us very unhappy about what our brave inspirational leader was doing with our Corps hard earned isk (i cant even think about how many hours of mining were lost or i'll cry) but basically people thinking that rl money was lost here and cryinmg about CCp stealing it are way off.

That isk was everything we had in our corp wallet, our genius leader saw a descrepency in isk prices between another hub and Jita and was moving the plex between these hubs to make a profit, from what we can work out he would have made about 1.2 mill profit per plex if he had managed to dock and resell the plexs at current prices.

Obviously he didnt manage to dock.

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.08.10 13:18:00 - [128]
 

Only 1.2 mil per??? That's a return of at most .4%!!! I only trade in goods that give me at least 3-5% increase on the original price, or it's just not worth the time/potential market shifts.

And wouldn't that profit margin have been eaten up in sales tax/broker fees anyway?

Aesheera
Amarr
PWNED FACTOR HOLDINGS
Posted - 2010.08.10 13:19:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Aesheera on 10/08/2010 13:20:42
Originally by: ziapina
from what we can work out he would have made about 1.2 mill profit per plex if he had managed to dock and resell the plexs at current prices.


Oh.
my.
god.

If you speak truth, then your inspirational leader is not only the biggest idiot for all the previously mentioned points regarding stupid choices of transportation, he also is in DIRE need of some trade learning.

So basically, he was hauling billions worth of plexes for a epic 88 something mill profit?

The failure just reached a new high.
You can make that 88m profit hauling ****ty mods around and no one could give a rats arse about you and your hauler.

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.08.10 13:24:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Aesheera
So basically, he was hauling billions worth of plexes for a epic 88 something mill profit?


Actually, if I'm not mistaken, he would have been taking an automatic loss. I don't think you can get combined SCC/Broker fees lower than .4%.

Khors
El Barco Pirata
Posted - 2010.08.10 13:25:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Khors on 10/08/2010 13:25:01
Originally by: Aesheera
Edited by: Aesheera on 10/08/2010 13:20:42
Originally by: ziapina
from what we can work out he would have made about 1.2 mill profit per plex if he had managed to dock and resell the plexs at current prices.


Oh.
my.
god.

If you speak truth, then your inspirational leader is not only the biggest idiot for all the previously mentioned points regarding stupid choices of transportation, he also is in DIRE need of some trade learning.

So basically, he was hauling billions worth of plexes for a epic 88 something mill profit?

The failure just reached a new high.
You can make that 88m profit hauling ****ty mods around and no one could give a rats arse about you and your hauler.


88 could be a reference to h!tler (seriously, stop the political censorship ccp, this isn't china), it gave him the willpower to do his trip, in the name of the fatherland.
Just speculations, but think about it.

edit: l33t spelling

Calistai Huranu
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2010.08.10 13:25:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: ziapina
Not sure how this hasnt come out yet as there are a LOT of us very unhappy about what our brave inspirational leader was doing with our Corps hard earned isk (i cant even think about how many hours of mining were lost or i'll cry) but basically people thinking that rl money was lost here and cryinmg about CCp stealing it are way off.

That isk was everything we had in our corp wallet, our genius leader saw a descrepency in isk prices between another hub and Jita and was moving the plex between these hubs to make a profit, from what we can work out he would have made about 1.2 mill profit per plex if he had managed to dock and resell the plexs at current prices.

Obviously he didnt manage to dock.


So lets get this straight.. Your Inspirational great leader risk's 22 bill of plex's bought with corp/alliance funds to make a profit of 89 mill...

Ohhh boy, to call this Golden doesn't come close.




Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
Posted - 2010.08.10 13:43:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: ziapina
Not sure how this hasnt come out yet as there are a LOT of us very unhappy about what our brave inspirational leader was doing with our Corps hard earned isk (i cant even think about how many hours of mining were lost or i'll cry) but basically people thinking that rl money was lost here and cryinmg about CCp stealing it are way off.

That isk was everything we had in our corp wallet, our genius leader saw a descrepency in isk prices between another hub and Jita and was moving the plex between these hubs to make a profit, from what we can work out he would have made about 1.2 mill profit per plex if he had managed to dock and resell the plexs at current prices.

Obviously he didnt manage to dock.
All that trouble for such a small margin? Just the slightest price dip and it would have been gone.

For an alliance leader, the guy seems quite the noob, sorry to say that...

Prince Spiderman
Posted - 2010.08.10 13:44:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: ziapina
Not sure how this hasnt come out yet as there are a LOT of us very unhappy about what our brave inspirational leader was doing with our Corps hard earned isk (i cant even think about how many hours of mining were lost or i'll cry) but basically people thinking that rl money was lost here and cryinmg about CCp stealing it are way off.

That isk was everything we had in our corp wallet, our genius leader saw a descrepency in isk prices between another hub and Jita and was moving the plex between these hubs to make a profit, from what we can work out he would have made about 1.2 mill profit per plex if he had managed to dock and resell the plexs at current prices.

Obviously he didnt manage to dock.


SESSION CHANGE IN PROGRESS?

River Ace
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.08.10 13:53:00 - [135]
 

Fresh news just in..

Shortly after what appeared to be a major capusleer loss of 74 plex, with a street value off 22 Billion isk, from a Tech 1 Kestral Caldari Frigate alliance leaders from SpaceMonkeys issue this statement:

"Today we claim a great victory over the beastley wardeccing villans known as the Orphanage! during a routine market run to Jita we foiled attempts to cause us a serious financial crisis. Employing a decoy Kestral to lure The orphanage of guard we managed to slip though our main transport shuttle with over 300 Plex in its cargo."

A non confirmed video report shows SpaceMonkey pilots in their HQ, The Blue Oyster Club, cheer with glee as Orphange take the bait and destroy the decoy Kestral.




NoChance Lance
Posted - 2010.08.10 14:04:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: ziapina
Not sure how this hasnt come out yet as there are a LOT of us very unhappy about what our brave inspirational leader was doing with our Corps hard earned isk (i cant even think about how many hours of mining were lost or i'll cry) but basically people thinking that rl money was lost here and cryinmg about CCp stealing it are way off.

That isk was everything we had in our corp wallet, our genius leader saw a descrepency in isk prices between another hub and Jita and was moving the plex between these hubs to make a profit, from what we can work out he would have made about 1.2 mill profit per plex if he had managed to dock and resell the plexs at current prices.

Obviously he didnt manage to dock.


Oh my. This has now gone from EPIC to LEGENDARY. Quite a feat.
I presume you are all looking for a new corp now?

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.08.10 14:22:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: ziapina
stuff


Sorry but I would rather hear those words from a non-alt.

B4T SH1T
Posted - 2010.08.10 15:25:00 - [138]
 

Bull****.

*UCKIN DUMBASS AHAHAHAHAAHAHH!YARRRR!!

Lord Zekk
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2010.08.10 18:10:00 - [139]
 

1) The Kessie pilot is and idiot.

2) Blowing plex up can be equated to blowing up ships in Eve as both can be bought using real life money or in game money. Think of in game ISK as currency with limited convertibility. Foreign currencty (RL money) can come in but it can't flow out. (Legally anyway, but it does the same way as real life)

The reason Ples is associated with RL money more than a Titan or a BS is because you or someone paid RL money for it directly. Where as when it comes to other in game assets you Plex with RL money, Sell plex for ISK and then spend the ISK. The experience is of spending game money. Kind of like when you're abroad and you spend foreign currency a lot of the time it doesn't feel like you're spending real money.

At the end of the day, all of us know CCP made plex movable because they know their customer base really well. "Never bet against stupid" - SolusLunes. They know that idiots will get plex blown up and that translates in to money for nothing.

Anyway. Awesome stuff little space monkey. Thanks for the shock and lols.



Srioghal moDhream
Posted - 2010.08.10 21:38:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Jojo Redana
Originally by: Nathan Jameson
EVE is a game in the sense that poker is a game--you're playing against other people, and you're gambling earned items that can be permanently lost.


If you play poker and during the game the house says "sorry these 100 euros chips on the table are destroyed now, not valid anymore sorry". And it's just part of the game.

In poker you will buy chips and play with chips. They won't destroy the chips. At least not in my country.


I think it's called the rake.

Leanna Dekara
Amarr
Posted - 2010.08.10 21:51:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: River Ace
Fresh news just in..

Shortly after what appeared to be a major capusleer loss of 74 plex, with a street value off 22 Billion isk, from a Tech 1 Kestral Caldari Frigate alliance leaders from SpaceMonkeys issue this statement:

"Today we claim a great victory over the beastley wardeccing villans known as the Orphanage! during a routine market run to Jita we foiled attempts to cause us a serious financial crisis. Employing a decoy Kestral to lure The orphanage of guard we managed to slip though our main transport shuttle with over 300 Plex in its cargo."

A non confirmed video report shows SpaceMonkey pilots in their HQ, The Blue Oyster Club, cheer with glee as Orphange take the bait and destroy the decoy Kestral.



ROFL


ChrisIsherwood
Posted - 2010.08.11 04:16:00 - [142]
 

Edited by: ChrisIsherwood on 11/08/2010 04:22:14
Originally by: Srioghal moDhream
Originally by: Jojo Redana
Originally by: Nathan Jameson
EVE is a game in the sense that poker is a game--you're playing against other people, and you're gambling earned items that can be permanently lost.


If you play poker and during the game the house says "sorry these 100 euros chips on the table are destroyed now, not valid anymore sorry". And it's just part of the game.

In poker you will buy chips and play with chips. They won't destroy the chips. At least not in my country.


I think it's called the rake.


WoW! not-for-profit casinos! must be nice! My town/county had about 3/4 of a billion dollars of gaming last year. Most poker rooms have a rake of about 10% at lower stakes. So if you are playing someone one-on-one and winning 54% of the time you will eventually go broke due to 10% of the pot being taken by the casino. Two players put $20 each into pot; winner gets $36 before tipping the dealer. Which as a player seems quite close IMHO to destroyed. Except of course that house rake goes to fund free drinks and push-up bras. It's not Quafe and Exotic Dancers, but it is a much better use of my money than most of the governments' efforts.

Milla Jovobitch
Posted - 2010.08.11 07:21:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Jojo Redana
In poker you will buy chips and play with chips. They won't destroy the chips. At least not in my country.


ITT: How to do fail-ass comparisons between Eve business model and other business models.

You guys can't be serious, right?

Liz Laser
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2010.08.11 12:26:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Jojo Redana


In poker you will buy chips and play with chips. They won't destroy the chips. At least not in my country.


In Soviet Union, chips destroy you.

Smile

Induc
Amarr
Posted - 2010.08.11 16:27:00 - [145]
 

Edited by: Induc on 11/08/2010 16:37:34
Originally by: Bal'Ayle
thank you for clearing that up, im no conspiracy theorist im just curious to find out what we base this trust on, although seeing a kill with a plex drop is very reassuring. though might i point out you offer no reference for the dice roll of 50%, nor do i believe there ever will be one available, the truth of it is its just to beneficial for CCP to have a higher destruction rate on plexes then any other item in the game. needless to say im not complaining because its opened up some rather lucrative options for me but i still get the feeling we don't know the whole truth on this one
Originally by: Slug Killer

PS: CCP Until you make it so that plex are indestructible and always no matter what drop, I will have no respect for your company. You sold that time, allowing it to vanish into thin air and not provide a service to your customers is a massive FU to your playerbase. Id say Id cancel all my accouts / quit etc, but I already mostly have earlier because of the lag reasons and Summer time.

I'm tired of all people who show less braincells then the guy who lost his 72 plexes. 72 plexes are nothing more special than roughly 22B isk.
It doesn't matter than they were bought for RL cash, once you redeem your 60 day time card for 2 plexes they lose their connection to RL cash, they're just two ingame items worth 300m isk each. (Some may pull out the "opportunity cost" argument here, but since plexes are so easy to sell you might almost consider them liquid isk)
You don't pay for the service of turning RL cash into isk, you pay for the service of turning RL cash into a plex.

This also means that you can't whine if you get 290m for a plex when you got 300m for the same plex a week ago, there is no guarantee that you'll actually get any isk for your money.

Also, CCP would probably earn just as much extra cash if they increased the destruction rate of something else, it doesn't have to be a plex.

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2010.08.12 16:48:00 - [146]
 

To be fair, time itself has always been the first casualty of playing Eve.

Nexo92
Death Incarnate INC
Posted - 2010.08.12 16:57:00 - [147]
 

When did everyone start saying 72 plexes ?

It was 74 ! Gaaaawwwwwd get the number right

Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.08.12 18:45:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
the ****??


dude not only are you off topic but, splelchekc next time. and no more of this do goody good bull****.

kiki mo
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2010.08.12 20:36:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Liz Laser
Originally by: Jojo Redana


In poker you will buy chips and play with chips. They won't destroy the chips. At least not in my country.


In Soviet Union, chips destroy you.

Smile


I was going to say that Razz

Niamh Wong
Amarr
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2010.08.13 16:13:00 - [150]
 

I almost never comment on here but this is truly hilarious, mostly unintentionally and not just the original kill.

I especially like all the PLEX related rage from the the internet-economists and internet-lawyers ;)


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