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Adean Starsailor
Amarr
No.Mercy
Posted - 2010.08.07 13:27:00 - [1]
 

I have looked throguh the forums alot and I have not found any real stances on the harbinger in pvp. I know in pve, if fit right can blitz lvl 3 missions and do some lvl 4 missions. However, I was wondering how good of a ship it is in PVP, I did some searching in EVEMON on fits and found one that has 620 dps and a 72.5k buffer tank. Is that good? I am only used to flying frigates and cruiser so I am not 100% sure if the harbinger would be a good pvp battlecruiser hull for amarrians, comparred to the hurricane, drake, brutix, and drake. All help is appreciated.

Grek Forto
Crosshair Corp
Posted - 2010.08.07 13:29:00 - [2]
 

The Harbinger is an awesome, awesome, awesome battlecruiser. I am sure someone will link a good fit for you. Very Happy

Adean Starsailor
Amarr
No.Mercy
Posted - 2010.08.07 13:35:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Adean Starsailor on 07/08/2010 13:35:43
Well I have found a decent fit I believe:

[Harbinger, PVP]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Stasis Webifier I

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Medium 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Hammerhead II x5


It has 620 dps and a 72.5k buffer.
I just don't know if it is an effective boat against, say a one on one of a hurricane, a drake, or a brutix.

Grek Forto
Crosshair Corp
Posted - 2010.08.07 13:36:00 - [4]
 

Seems solid. Cool

raukosen
Posted - 2010.08.07 13:42:00 - [5]
 

Harb should have 3x HS

Shield tanking it is also better IMO but enjoy your dying slowly with your buffer because you got caught aligning

Adean Starsailor
Amarr
No.Mercy
Posted - 2010.08.07 13:47:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: raukosen
Harb should have 3x HS

Shield tanking it is also better IMO but enjoy your dying slowly with your buffer because you got caught aligning


the three heatsinks adds like 30ish-50ish dps if that, and do people really tank shields with a harbi?Shocked

Denuo Secus
Posted - 2010.08.07 13:53:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Adean Starsailor
Originally by: raukosen
Harb should have 3x HS

Shield tanking it is also better IMO but enjoy your dying slowly with your buffer because you got caught aligning


the three heatsinks adds like 30ish-50ish dps if that, and do people really tank shields with a harbi?Shocked


More important you can fit 2 TEs and some nano stuff in the lows then. Don't forget the Suitcase II. And it's no active shield tank. Just fit some shield buffer. The Harb becomes faster and deadlier that way. Great tracking and range.

Adean Starsailor
Amarr
No.Mercy
Posted - 2010.08.07 13:58:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Adean Starsailor on 07/08/2010 13:57:55
Then can someone post this awsome nano shield buffer harbinger fit with its stats and what not, cause this sounds kindah iffy. Just my two cents.

Denuo Secus
Posted - 2010.08.07 14:18:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Denuo Secus on 07/08/2010 14:22:53
Originally by: Adean Starsailor
Edited by: Adean Starsailor on 07/08/2010 13:57:55
Then can someone post this awsome nano shield buffer harbinger fit with its stats and what not, cause this sounds kindah iffy. Just my two cents.


Well the shield harb is just one possibility. Its maybe not that flexible due to less med slots for EW and tackling. But it does the damage job better. It depends on your environment.

[Harbinger, Shield]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Hammerhead II x5

760 DPS with INMF and drones @9,7+8,2km
638 DPS with Scorch and drones @29+8,2km
0,12 rad/s tracking with INMF
0,09 rad/s tracking with Scorch
36k EHP
1245 m/s
7,8 s to warp

This fitting is vulnerable to Neuts. A cap booster instead of tackling would be another possibility. The strengths of this fitting are damage, tracking, range and speed.

Edit: tbh I wouldn't use medium drones. Two flights of small drones are better imho. But again it depends on the situation ofc. I used them here for better comparability with your fitting.

Khors
El Barco Pirata
Posted - 2010.08.07 14:25:00 - [10]
 

Worthless to have a scram on a shieldharby imo, you want to keep distance and melt people with scorch.[Harbinger, shield]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Fourier Transform I Tracking Program
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
[empty high slot]

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x5


Damagecontrol for another heatsink if you like.

Danny Lonnegan
Caldari
United Amarr Templar Legion
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2010.08.07 18:05:00 - [11]
 

The Harbinger doesn't get any bonuses to armor, which is why shield fits are viable. Anyway, EVEfit warrioring got me this variant of Khors' fit:

[Harbinger, Shield Harbinger Mk.2]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Fourier Transform I Tracking Program
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
[empty high slot]

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

Lasers do 479 DPS at 25km optimal. I usually prefer Hammerheads on the Harbinger because they provide a substantial boost to DPS, but since this ship doesn't have a web or a neut, light drones are its only defense against tacklers. I don't bother fitting tackle onto shield Harbingers; they need the mids for tanking.

The thing that scares me about this setup is the lack of tank. Without the DC II, it only has about 43,000 EHP. I'm wondering what would happen if you fit it with an afterburner and flew it like a Zealot, but I'm pretty sure its base speed is too low and its sig radius is too high for that to be effective.


Ap0ll0n
Gallente
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:39:00 - [12]
 

Don't really need all that tracking, HPL II tracks just fine without TE's. Also, never fly without point or scram on a BC. ECM drones is just way better than damage drones. Works excellent against assault frigs and other fast stuff you can't hit.

[Harbinger, Nano]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Invulnerability Field II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Dread Guristas Warp Scrambler

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
[empty high slot]

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Vespa EC-600 x5

Danny Lonnegan
Caldari
United Amarr Templar Legion
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2010.08.08 04:41:00 - [13]
 

The TE's more for range than tracking, but I see your point. Speaking of points (ha ha), what's the rationale for always carrying a point on a BC? I understand why most fits have them, but I was assuming that in certain gang compositions, the extra tank is worth more to a shield Harb than a warp disruptor.

Frozean
Posted - 2010.08.08 04:50:00 - [14]
 

If your gang is large enough, then you can start forfeting scrams and points for more tank/gank.

But if it isnt large enough, you wont have enough coverage for tackling frigs, where you will NEED both scrams and webs to stop them from freely tackling and you dont have enough to pop him quick enough with your med guns and drones.

Even worst if you all field hammerheads. Some ints laughs at those.

Aralieus
Amarr
Shadowbane Syndicate
Posted - 2010.08.08 05:00:00 - [15]
 

[Harbinger, GRRR]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Medium Armor Repairer II

Warp Scrambler II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
10MN Afterburner II

Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Hammerhead II x5


Requires good skill set to fly(BC V, DI V, Weapon Disruption IV, All related Cap skills V-4 at least) but deadly in the right hands.

Danny Lonnegan
Caldari
United Amarr Templar Legion
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2010.08.08 05:09:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Frozean
If your gang is large enough, then you can start forfeting scrams and points for more tank/gank.

But if it isnt large enough, you wont have enough coverage for tackling frigs, where you will NEED both scrams and webs to stop them from freely tackling and you dont have enough to pop him quick enough with your med guns and drones.

Even worst if you all field hammerheads. Some ints laughs at those.
I see where you're coming from. Of course, in small gangs, Harbingers tend to be called primary early, which is where the extra tank comes in handy.

Man, I've been flying Harbys for six months now and I still feel like a nublet. Laughing

EFT Worrier
Posted - 2010.08.10 00:00:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Danny Lonnegan

Man, I've been flying Harbys for six months now and I still feel like a nublet. Laughing


Well you sure fit like one. Try this:


[Harbinger, dual-prop pulse armour harb]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Warp Disruptor II
10MN Afterburner II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 400
10MN Digital Booster Rockets

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Acolyte EV-300 x5
Warrior II x5

Danny Lonnegan
Caldari
United Amarr Templar Legion
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2010.08.10 00:18:00 - [18]
 

Yes, actually, I've fit and flown a pulse/buffer Harbinger before; it's pretty much the orthodox Harby fit. The dual prop I've never seen before, though; what's the reasoning?

EFT Worrier
Posted - 2010.08.10 03:09:00 - [19]
 

cause scrams are common and going fast is always good.

XIRUSPHERE
Gallente
Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2010.08.10 06:16:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: XIRUSPHERE on 10/08/2010 06:19:33
[Harbinger, Pew Pew Lazorbeamz]
Adaptive Nano Plating II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Warp Disruptor II
Langour Drive Disruptor I

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
[empty high slot]

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Hammerhead II X5

Don't forget the Lancer G-2 gamma they are dirt cheap. 899 DPS overloaded with my skills and clone.

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2010.08.10 09:47:00 - [21]
 

[Harbinger, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
[empty high slot]

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Fits with kza implant or cpu implant. If you want to use slaves/akemon/disruptor/small neut, just downgrade to deadspace anp.
Drones to taste /hhs, valks, ecm vespas or warriors + ecm hornets/.

Btw i like shield fit more, if i want to fly slow plated brick i can as well use bs with bigger buffer and more dps.

Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.08.10 13:59:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Adean Starsailor
Edited by: Adean Starsailor on 07/08/2010 13:35:43
Well I have found a decent fit I believe:

[Harbinger, PVP]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Stasis Webifier I

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Medium 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Hammerhead II x5


It has 620 dps and a 72.5k buffer.
I just don't know if it is an effective boat against, say a one on one of a hurricane, a drake, or a brutix.


This is a nice solid base you can tweak for the situation a bit.

I load 5 warrior and 5 ec-300 for drones.
Get the named MWD if you can't fit t2 (better cap use), but fit T2 if you can (less of a cap capacity penalty).
I sometimes run dual webs instead of the cap booster. These are especially useful against increasingly common armor hacs and of course frigs.

Yes it's slow to align. Pay attention to fleet movements and FC orders. Don't travel solo.

Proxyyyy
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.08.10 14:31:00 - [23]
 

Here, showing support for this awesome looking ship. F4CK YEAH!

Lauren Helix
Posted - 2010.08.10 14:38:00 - [24]
 

newb question here:

why nobody relies on active armor reppers?
is because of being neuted in pvp or there is any other reasoning behind that?

thanks

Kaileen Starsong
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.08.10 14:50:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Lauren Helix
newb question here:

why nobody relies on active armor reppers?
is because of being neuted in pvp or there is any other reasoning behind that?

thanks


1. They don't hold up well enough vs ship of similar size(like, at all)
2. Cap/module management
3. More slots used if fitted for active tank compared to buffer
(4. On BS scale they're pain to fit)

Mackenna
Amarr
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.08.10 16:51:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Lauren Helix
newb question here:

why nobody relies on active armor reppers?
is because of being neuted in pvp or there is any other reasoning behind that?

thanks


Even if you fitted the best armor repairer available, it will only slightly prolong the inevitable during a gang fight after you're called as a primary target. The Capacitor and CPU requirements that come with an active armor tank will force you to omit things that could help you and your gang more. There is little you can do vs. heavy neutralizers in any Amarr ship. Capacitor Boosters are your only option.



superteds
Posted - 2010.08.10 17:23:00 - [27]
 

[Harbinger, PVP CR Shields]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
[empty high slot]

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

Gang fit ofc.

Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.08.10 17:36:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Lauren Helix
newb question here:

why nobody relies on active armor reppers?
is because of being neuted in pvp or there is any other reasoning behind that?

thanks


the above reasons given and...

lag. in the event you are unable to activate modules...your tank is unaffected (the damage control being the exception). hopefully lag will 'break up' enough in time to call for and receive reps from logi.


 

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