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TPhee
Posted - 2010.08.04 12:29:00 - [1]
 

Hi guys

I wanna make some coolant for my corp, but I'm completely new to PI. I've figured out how to make coolant, as far as schematics go, but I wanted some more information from those with experience in PI.

HereI found that to make coolant, I'll need Aqueous Liquids (AL) and Ionic Solutions (IS) as raw materials.
From that I derived that a prefered planet would be a storm planet, since it yields both (am I correct in this? Is it better to harvest both from diff planets for higher yield, or does that not matter?)

After that I turn my AL's into water and my IS's into Electrolytes using a Basic Industry Facility.
(can this only be done in a basic one, or can a 'higher type' facility do it as well and faster?)

Once I get those produts, I need an advanced industry facility to combine both into Coolant.


So here are some practical questions:
- Would it be better to harvest both materials from a storm planet, or find 2 more common types and harvest both individually
- Would I need another planet to do the industry on, or is it best to do it 'on site'
- would I need to put a 'industry factility' after another one in the links, or can 1 advanced industry facility make Coolant directly from the raw materials?


All these questions would boil down to:
How can I make coolant most efficiently. I don't know (or care) if there are other ways of making more isk with PI, I just want to make some coolant. Preferably at a high efficiency (timewise).
if there are any factors I would be overlooking, let me know please.

thanks in advance



Rowbin Hod
InterSun Freelance
The Forsaken.
Posted - 2010.08.04 12:39:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Rowbin Hod on 04/08/2010 12:39:15
Really depends on the abundances and how close the high abundances are on the planet. In low/null sec, it would be fairly trivial to set up 4 extractors for each raw material (referred to as p0). 4 extractors feed into a storage facility. Off this facility you have two basic industry facilities to produce the p1 materials, sending them back into the storage facility. the storage has another link to the advanced facilities to produce the p2 - coolant. With your p1s being produced with two basic facilities, you have enough supply to run two advanced facilities. You'll be getting 10 coolant per hour.

I wouldn't bother doing this till you have all the PI skills at level 3.

http://www.eve-ivy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Planetary_Interaction

TPhee
Posted - 2010.08.04 12:46:00 - [3]
 

so if I get it right I will need a command center.

Install 4 extractors for each raw material, and link them to a silo.
Link that silo to 2 basic industry facilities, making respectively water and electrolytes
Create a link that lets those 2 'flow back' to the silo
Link the silo to 1 or 2 advanced industry facilities that make coolant from the above
create another link that makes that 'flow back' to my silo.

Do I need launch pads, because I was told that's only for large ammounts. Would this require (or be worth) a launch pad?

What size of command centre would I need for the above, granted it's correct?

Droxlyn
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.04 13:29:00 - [4]
 

What security rating are you hoping to use for the host systems?

I have done only enough high-sec extraction to know not to bother.

There are facility ratios you need to maintain. The hardest one to assign generically is the extractor to basic processor ratio since it is very dependent on the extraction output. There are several factors on the extractor. How often you are willing to restart them, (I base my efforts on the 23 hour runs.), how good the planet is in general, and how well you found a hot-spot on the planet. The Planetology skills lie, so use them as rough guides and play hotter-colder with extractors until you can't find a better spot. In .3 space, I usually got about a 3:1 ratio of Extractor to Basic Factories. For each full time BIF you have for each input (2 total-one of each), you can keep one Advanced factory busy.

If you use an Advanced command center, and use two different planets. You could reasonably expect to get 12 extractors, 4 Basic Factories, 2 Advanced Factories, and 2 Space ports on one planet. You move half of the Electrolyte from Planet A to Planet B and half of the water from Planet B to Planet A to keep all your factories busy. Use all of your extractors on one planet to get as much of that one thing in one spot so you don't waste too much CPU and Grid in link lengths. Use a hex grid to make your colony as compact as possible.

Make it look something like this:
http://www.imarvintpa.com/Imagery/v/IMarvinTPA/Eve/PerfectExtractor.jpg.html

Drox


Image changed to URL. Zymurgist

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.08.04 13:30:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 05/08/2010 07:03:15

I use multiple planets:
* Aqueous Solutions -> Water (Advanced CC, 15 extractors + 4 basic processors + spaceport)
* Ionic Solutions -> Electrolytes (Advanced CC, 17 extractors + 2 basic processors + spaceport)
* Water + Electrolytes -> Coolant (Advanced CC, 21 advanced processors + 2 spaceports)

I use an ice planet for water, a storm planet for electrolytes, and a barren planet for nothing except advanced processing into coolant.

I use the processing planet to do more than just coolant too, as it doesn't take long to make a lot of coolant (it spits out 105 coolant per hour when it is kept fed).

In hisec you will want to use more than one planet for electrolytes, but one water planet will be enough. Using 23 hour cycles is adequate.

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2010.08.04 14:19:00 - [6]
 

I use 2 planets inside a WH, so the yields are insane compared to high sec PI.

I make Electrolytes on a Storm, and Water on an Oceanic. I truck the Electrolytes over to the Oceanic, which also has the processors for the Coolant (apparently Coolant = Gatorade??).

I have piles of the Electrolytes, so my Storm sits passive a lot of the time. When my stores of Water start to run low, I run a cycle or two of the Oceanic. But for the most part, it's just slowly chewing through those and amassing Coolant.

Compared to other PI products, I think Coolant is one of the easiest to manage. Next to Oxygen that is =)

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.08.04 15:09:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: TPhee
so if I get it right I will need a command center.

Install 4 extractors for each raw material, and link them to a silo.
Link that silo to 2 basic industry facilities, making respectively water and electrolytes
Create a link that lets those 2 'flow back' to the silo
Link the silo to 1 or 2 advanced industry facilities that make coolant from the above
create another link that makes that 'flow back' to my silo.

Do I need launch pads, because I was told that's only for large ammounts. Would this require (or be worth) a launch pad?

What size of command centre would I need for the above, granted it's correct?



easy way - one planet

1x LP
4x extractor link to LP
4x extractor link to LP
2x BF link to LP
1x AF link to LP

route everything to and from the LP

then add extra BF for converting more so you have a buffer of P1 stuff rather than P0
if you can you can up it to 2 AF but YMMV

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2010.08.04 15:22:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: RaTTuS

route everything to and from the LP

this^

Silos are practically a waste of time and resources.

Just make sure your furthest extractor is still 6 links from the Pad, and you can route back and forth from it.

Then instead of parking a Silo somewhere between, you can deploy another extractor or processor in its place.

Xre Vega
Posted - 2010.08.04 17:03:00 - [9]
 

I wouldn't use storage facilities. Spaceports store twice as much, and you can launch your final product from them. What I usually do is have one or two spaceports, with everything moving outwards from them, in a lightning pattern.

Celest Felixa
Posted - 2010.08.04 20:38:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: TPhee

So here are some practical questions:
- Would it be better to harvest both materials from a storm planet, or find 2 more common types and harvest both individually
- Would I need another planet to do the industry on, or is it best to do it 'on site'
- would I need to put a 'industry factility' after another one in the links, or can 1 advanced industry facility make Coolant directly from the raw materials?



I've set up two coolant producing planets (gas and storm) in the same system. Storm does appear to have better extraction numbers for Ionic Solutions. I prefer doing the on-site method since the system is in low-sec. If you have a hi-sec planet, the 2-3 planet chain for produce coolant might be better. Consider how much effort you want to put in. The on-site method means maintenance of the extractors is a couple of minutes per cycle. The 2-3 planet chain means shipping the items around in addition to the maintenance.

By 2-3 planet chain, I mean either a storm->oceanic(with the adv. industry centers) or a storm->{water source}->{planet of adv. industrials}.

The problem I see with the 2-3 planet chain is that the limiting factor in final production is the AIs. Two BIs, one of each type, feed one AI nicely as long as the BIs are kept feed with material. To keep the BIs feed, you need 6000 units of both raw material per AI. Now imagine shipping 1,440m3 (6000units *24hrs) of material (raws) for one AI work over one day on another planet.

The two planets are similarly built. A launch pad is placed near the AL site and the Command center is placed near the IS site. Chains are kept short that way. In low-sec, you need to upgrade connectors if you chain a few and use the 5hr or 30min cycles. The AIs and the BIs for the aqueous liquid are chained off the launch pad. The command center has the BIs for the Ionic Solutions site. The down-side to this particular setup is that multiple 5hr and 30min cycle threaten to overwhelm the command center storage capacity. With the skills and an Adv. Command Center (5-6 extractors per site, 6 BIs, and 2 AIs), I can create 240 units of coolant per day with 23hr cycles and excess material.

To answer your last question, you cannot build coolant from one adv. industry center and a bunch of extractors. The Basic Industrials must create the water/Electrolytes first.

TPhee
Posted - 2010.08.04 23:37:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: TPhee on 04/08/2010 23:37:44
I've gathered some information about experienced PI pilots in my alliance.
As it turns out, I can achieve a fairly good yield with not too much training doing it this way:

run 4 planets (2 for IS and 2 for AL) with: 8x extractor, 6x basic industry facility and 1x launch pad.
I've put out a few 'test planets' with limited facilities to get a hang of the link and route system and get a feel for how much I extract.
Out here in nullsec I'm getting roughly 40-45k ionic solution in a 5hr cycle and roughly 50k aqueous liquids in a 5hr cycle.

For my calculations, I round it down to 40k for both, seeing how I need equivalent ammounts. Any leftovers I'll stock for a bad week (read: I didn't come online enough) or sell for some sidecash.

The main idea is to run 2x 5hr cycles a day. Basically before I leave to class turn them all on. Even with the quick mailcheck or skillcheck, turning on 4 planets with 8 extractors should take no more then 15-20 minutes a day.
When I get back, I do the same thing. This way I run 2 5hr cycles a day.

8 extractors pulling 40k x 2 per day would yield me 80x8k basics = 640.000 P-0's.
6 basic extractors can run 2 cycles per hour, 23 hours a day, which allows them to convert a max of 864.000 P-O's to P-1's.
The 'leftover' is for the days where I manage to pull in a 3th cycle before I go to bed, or for scratch P-0's I buy on the local market for cheap.

So each of these 4 planets would be converting a total of 640.000 P-0's to aprox 4250 P-1's every day.
That leaves me with 9500 water and electrolytes at the end of said day.

A fifth planet running 12 advanced industry modules can convert up to 11520 of each from P-1's to P-2's every day.
A 'theoretical' net yield of aprox 1200 units of coolant a day would be reached.

Seeing how this is a non-profit thing, and this far exceeds the current coolant need of my corp, I'm probably going for a practical yield of 800 a day average. This is a 33% loss margin due to forgetting a day, not being in the mood, or having days on which I won't play the game. (yes, those exist :( )

This assumes the ability to run advanced centers. The yield numbers above were reached with planetology lvl 2 at the first drop of the CC and it's extractors.

I fully realise this yield might go up, and that the potential in PI is greater then this. However I have reached the only goal I wanted to reach with PI, which was making coolant to run our towers.
Hence my try to repell griefers and know-it-alls from telling me how noob my setup is and how little isk I am pulling.

The only reason I type this, is to share this with ppl who want do to the same thing, and to save them the hassle of spending an entire day not pvp'ing or ratting, but reading PDF's and figuring something out.


edit: changed silo to launch pad. Had my notes wrong.

Celest Felixa
Posted - 2010.08.05 01:21:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: TPhee
Edited by: TPhee on 04/08/2010 23:37:44
As it turns out, I can achieve a fairly good yield with not too much training doing it this way:

run 4 planets (2 for IS and 2 for AL) with: 8x extractor, 6x basic industry facility and 1x launch pad.

...

A fifth planet running 12 advanced industry modules can convert up to 11520 of each from P-1's to P-2's every day.
A 'theoretical' net yield of aprox 1200 units of coolant a day would be reached.

...

This assumes the ability to run advanced centers. The yield numbers above were reached with planetology lvl 2 at the first drop of the CC and it's extractors.




8 extractor (800MW each), 6 BIs (800MW each), and 1 Launchpad (700MW) has a total power requirement of 11,900MW. Including links, that setup will need the improved command center or better. That will save you from skilling Command Center Upgrades to lvl 4 for the adv. command center.

Alternatively, the adv. command center will give you enough power grid to add 3 adv. industrials to each of your planets. That would save you the need for a 5th planet and the need to skill Interplanetary Consolidation to lvl 4.

Either way, you can save 4 days or more training.

Enthral
Posted - 2010.08.05 02:28:00 - [13]
 

I won't give specific details, but I will suggest that you consider extracting the components on planets where the abundance is the best. You can do the whole process on a single planet, but it is pretty inefficient.

Some people dedicate a planet just for manufacturing, with their other planets solely from extraction.

The logistics of such a setup, however, are for you to work out. After all, a setup that truly works is a trade secret, and anyone who shares details like that are probably not producing at the level they should be anyway.

As they say, beware of free information!

Xearal
Minmatar
SOL Industries
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.05 05:16:00 - [14]
 

it depends a bit on howmany planets you can control and howbig a command center you can set up.
If you go to null sec for your storm planet you should be able to do this:

Planet 1: 10 processors, 10 extractors, 1 launchpad -> Export Water
planet 2: 10 processors, 10 extractors, 1 launchpad -> Export Water
planet 3: 10 processors, 10 extractors, 1 launchpad -> Export Electrolytes
planet 4: 10 processors, 10 extractors, 1 launchpad -> Export Electrolytes
Planet 5: 2 launchpads, 20 advanced factories -> Import Water/Electrolytes, one in each launchpad, Manufacture Coolant, export from both launchpads.

You will be making 100 Coolant per hour with this setup, and this is easily maintainable using null sec planets. All you need to do is restart your extractors once every 8 hours or so, and pick up your P1 products once a day, drop them off at your manufacturing planet and import/export there.

The good part of this setup is, suppose coolant crashes, you can simply switch your extractor planets to other products, or set them up on new planets, and your manufacturing planet doesn't need any change, all you need to do is change routs and schematics on it, to make your new product.


TPhee
Posted - 2010.08.05 08:32:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: TPhee on 05/08/2010 08:32:40
@ Celest felixa:
with my 'test planet' I was able to use 1 launchpad, 5 extractors and 3 basic industries on a limited command centre. (9k power).
5 extractors + 3 basic industries + LP = 8x800+700=7100 grid used up by modules, 2000 by links.

I converted this to each module, after link installment, uses up roughly 30% more grid.
14x (800x1.3) + 700x1.3 = 15470.
To be able to place in 3 advanced industries seems like a tight fit. Are you able to fit those? Would you mind sending me a configuration screenshot? I would rather run a (8)9E/8BI/1LP configuration then a 8E/6BI/1LP/3AI, but if one fits, so should the other.


@ Enthral:
Quote:
I won't give specific details, but I will suggest that you consider extracting the components on planets where the abundance is the best. You can do the whole process on a single planet, but it is pretty inefficient.

Some people dedicate a planet just for manufacturing, with their other planets solely from extraction.

Even though I greatly appreciate the time you took to read my thread, and provide me with some input... have you even read my above post O.o? You know, the one where I explained I'll be doing it with 4 extracting planets and a manuf one.

@ Xearal:
I will try to get as close to the 10/10/1 as I can on my planets, but given the 1.3x margin I provided earlier in this post, putting 10 extractors, 10 basic industries and a launchpad in simply won't fit on the grid I think.
Same question though: Did you manage to fit that, if so, could you provide me a screenshot with your setup so I can see where I went wrong?

thx for all the constructive input here guys.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2010.08.05 11:34:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: TPhee
limited command centre


I would really suggest getting up to at least level 4 and using Advanced CCs.

Ulstan
Posted - 2010.08.05 14:13:00 - [17]
 

I don't see why producing on one planet would have to be inefficient compared to extracting on one and shipping to AI's on the other. As long as you can find enough planets with sufficiently high deposits, you're fine. There's nothing inherently more efficient about shipping P1 instead of P2 about...indeed, the opposite is true.

And of course for the lazy, it's much easier for each planet to be self contained and dump P2 and higher into a spaceport, which will take forever to fill.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.08.05 19:17:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Ulstan
I don't see why producing on one planet would have to be inefficient compared to extracting on one and shipping to AI's on the other. As long as you can find enough planets with sufficiently high deposits, you're fine.

Well you hit the nail on the head. It is all about extraction rates.

For every processor you don't have on planet, you gain an extractor. In hisec this is especially important with Ionic Solutions, which has very low extraction rates.

I do process to P1 first before exporting.

Xearal
Minmatar
SOL Industries
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.05 20:33:00 - [19]
 

My planet uses 17765 CPU and 15797 PG.
An advanced should be able to cover those needs, right?
I've not used an Advanced CC in a while, yay for elites, I could fit more factories on that planet if I wanted, or a third Launchpad.

What I did was, put 2 Launchpads down, a little away from eachtoher, then put the Factories around it, in a tight hexagon, which is the best way to stack them together. Linked up 10 factories to one, and 10 to the other launchpad, and presto.

I made a screenshot, but I'm horrid at finding a place to put it up for me to link here.

Droxlyn
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.05 20:51:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Xearal
My planet uses 17765 CPU and 15797 PG.
An advanced should be able to cover those needs, right?
I've not used an Advanced CC in a while, yay for elites, I could fit more factories on that planet if I wanted, or a third Launchpad.

What I did was, put 2 Launchpads down, a little away from eachtoher, then put the Factories around it, in a tight hexagon, which is the best way to stack them together. Linked up 10 factories to one, and 10 to the other launchpad, and presto.

I made a screenshot, but I'm horrid at finding a place to put it up for me to link here.



Yes, those fit.

No matter how you abuse 3 Advanced factories chained together off of a Spaceport, you cannot overload the standard links used to feed them. As a space port has "six" sides, you could abuse them for 18 Advanced factories, but you can only get 22 with an advanced CC, but if you have 22, they'll use up the single launch pad's storage space pretty quickly. I prefer having 2 launch pads and 21 Advanced facilities.

This is my optimal Advanced command Center layout: http://www.imarvintpa.com/Imagery/v/IMarvinTPA/Eve/UltimatePattern-P1P4Hard.png.html

I haven't bothered to work on having an Elite CC with any of my characters, so I haven't done much to optimize a layout for that kind of CC.

Drox


Celest Felixa
Posted - 2010.08.06 03:03:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Celest Felixa on 06/08/2010 03:08:52
Edited by: Celest Felixa on 06/08/2010 03:04:28
Originally by: TPhee
Edited by: TPhee on 05/08/2010 08:32:40
@ Celest felixa:
with my 'test planet' I was able to use 1 launchpad, 5 extractors and 3 basic industries on a limited command centre. (9k power).
5 extractors + 3 basic industries + LP = 8x800+700=7100 grid used up by modules, 2000 by links.

I converted this to each module, after link installment, uses up roughly 30% more grid.
14x (800x1.3) + 700x1.3 = 15470.
To be able to place in 3 advanced industries seems like a tight fit. Are you able to fit those? Would you mind sending me a configuration screenshot? I would rather run a (8)9E/8BI/1LP configuration then a 8E/6BI/1LP/3AI, but if one fits, so should the other.



Since all your extractions are focused, I don't see a problem with the link cost, especially if they are tightly packed (27MW per link). My storm colony has 11 extractors, 6 BIs, 2 AIs, 1 Launch Pad, and 4 upgraded links. I went ahead and posted the screenshot onto Eve University's Colony Management page, under the Storm Planet (Coolant Production) section. At this moment, it's the last one on the page.

edit: Missed a couple of links.
edit^2: Added a link directly to the section.

Llyandrian
Amarr
Livestock Science Exchange
Posted - 2010.08.06 06:38:00 - [22]
 


There is a real shortage of Coolant, the stocks required to keep POS supplied are starting to run out. So it is insanely profitable at the moment provided you can secure a plentiful supply of Electrolyes.

Princess Nimotehp
Red Eye Brigade
Posted - 2010.08.06 11:28:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Llyandrian

There is a real shortage of Coolant, the stocks required to keep POS supplied are starting to run out. So it is insanely profitable at the moment provided you can secure a plentiful supply of Electrolyes.


Indeed.. It went from 8k to 13k within 12h yesterday. It made me chuckle since im producing as much coolant as i can, and my hangar is getting filled up Very Happy

Also interesting (for me at least) to see that 4 planets (1water, 2elec and 1 to combine those 2) producing a single P2 is making more isk atm than the 21 other planets i have witch produces P4.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.08.06 15:19:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Xearal
I made a screenshot, but I'm horrid at finding a place to put it up for me to link here.

Chribba to the rescue again: EVE-Files.COM

No registration required to use (handy though to show all your files).


Shonali
Posted - 2010.08.06 20:48:00 - [25]
 

We (the corporation) are spewing electrolytes from our gas planets (three of them) and making coolant on our storm planet (all in wormhole). This is insanely profitable right now. For unknown reasons, I stocked up on water in hi-sec over that past few weeks, and we either make more coolant with that (although it is running out) or sell the electrolytes straight up. Coolant, of course, we sell as the coolant. We ripped up our low profit lava/barren bases and now have 30-40 command centers on the gas and storm planets....guess we will get a peek at depletion :).

Xearal
Minmatar
SOL Industries
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.07 01:54:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Droxlyn

Yes, those fit.

No matter how you abuse 3 Advanced factories chained together off of a Spaceport, you cannot overload the standard links used to feed them. As a space port has "six" sides, you could abuse them for 18 Advanced factories, but you can only get 22 with an advanced CC, but if you have 22, they'll use up the single launch pad's storage space pretty quickly. I prefer having 2 launch pads and 21 Advanced facilities.

This is my optimal Advanced command Center layout: http://www.imarvintpa.com/Imagery/v/IMarvinTPA/Eve/UltimatePattern-P1P4Hard.png.html

I haven't bothered to work on having an Elite CC with any of my characters, so I haven't done much to optimize a layout for that kind of CC.

Drox




That's pretty much how I put up my planet, I organised my factories slightly differently, but that's basicly it. Works like a charm, and yes I have room for 3-4 more factories on my Elite planets :) Just cba to put them up, since my extractor planets can't support them.

Llyandrian
Amarr
Livestock Science Exchange
Posted - 2010.08.07 10:59:00 - [27]
 


Stocks are depleting, the unprepared are complaining, prices and costs are rising, the speculators are buying, expect PI raws to rises to push prices up across the board.


 

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