open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked A question for players from before 2007........
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5

Author Topic

Rhohan
Minmatar Marauders
Posted - 2010.08.02 23:14:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Player One
... like in the golden days of teh Nerfbat.




I still have fond memories of the Great Nano-Nerf, Wardec nerf, and the aborted Carrier changes.

Now those were some real "Raging" times. Razz




Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.08.02 23:15:00 - [62]
 

Mid-2005 start here, I've played constantly ever since.

In my opinion, whining is cyclical. There has never been a time without whining, but it peaks from time to time. Instances I can remember it getting loud:

- RMR
- T20
- Nos nerf
- Nano nerf
- Zulu's carrier ideas

And of course, the instance we find ourselves in at the moment. This one is different though, in that I've never seen such pants-on-head stupidity from the devs before. Really, I haven't.

Between telling their current subscriber base their long-term business isn't meaningful (that its better spent on new bright-eyed players), to neglecting us of meaningful game development for the next 18 months, to turning a blind ear to the CSM after giving it so much press upon formation. To hiring a PR firm to do damage control in the media, to asking us to vote you in as best MMO after all that - and then, having the gall to unsticky the thread in the hopes it will fade away and people will forget about it?

WAKE THE HELL UP.

Have you people learned nothing from the T20 incident? That communication, real and meaningful, is the key to your success? That trust is the most valuable commodity in this game and that you're squandering it to pursue a pair of pipe dreams?

If you know me, from my time on this forum or SHC, you know I'm not one for yelling or bemoaning unnecessarily. So I hope this gets through your heads over in Reykjavik - I don't think you care about us anymore. Until you prove to me and those that think like me otherwise, you're going to have a rabble on your hands.

I may not be quitting, but there are ways I can shape the PCU count as insignificant as they may be. Maybe dropping by the Newbie channels and informing those who will listen what you're up to will be a start. Maybe that mass test on SISI Aug 5 might be a good time and place to picket in local. Or who knows, those people at work I've been talking to about starting a trial, maybe I'll go and convince them that World of Tanks is better, or that Starcraft 2 can get them laid.

I may not be quitting, but maybe if I can dissuade some people from joining, y'all will still feel the financial impact.



(Eris, you can remove yourself from those comments above, keep showing these people how the old-school devs do business through straight-talk and honesty. :brofist:)

Snowmann
Posted - 2010.08.02 23:24:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Sakura Nihil
...I've never seen such pants-on-head stupidity from the Players before. Really, I haven't.



Fixed that for you.

I think the Devs are reacting the same as they have for the last several years.
The players are the ones who have changed.

They seem to think if they can "hit the brick wall even harder" they can get through.
Kind of like a temper tantrum to be honest.



Sandslinger
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
Posted - 2010.08.02 23:25:00 - [64]
 

To be honest

The whinage has been going for god knows how long.

I don't do big 0.0 pvp fights anymore for a horde of reasons most of them related to the drama that grows from alliances and the people that take it way too seriously.

So I can't be subjective on the lag situation cuz I'm not feeling it.

But I'm pretty sure CCP will have it fixed eventually not the first time the lag monster rears it head, and I think people have rosey eyes on things too much

I mean look at Jita the second they upped the capacity of it that's how people behave in 0.0 fights too in my experience. people now jump in 1K people and expect the servers not too melt.


Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.08.02 23:43:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 02/08/2010 23:45:49
Originally by: Snowmann
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
...I've never seen such pants-on-head stupidity from the Players before. Really, I haven't.



Fixed that for you.

I think the Devs are reacting the same as they have for the last several years.
The players are the ones who have changed.

They seem to think if they can "hit the brick wall even harder" they can get through.
Kind of like a temper tantrum to be honest.




Post with your main, kthx.

If we're going to have this discussion, I'm not doing it with a faceless alt. I don't deny, the forums have gotten a lot... more crass over the last five years.

We're not going to get through to them, instead we're just trying to help them see the other side of the coin. Namely, that antagonizing existing players in favor of new players is not a wise path to tread. Ask SOE how that went.

Originally by: Sandslinger
To be honest

The whinage has been going for god knows how long.

I don't do big 0.0 pvp fights anymore for a horde of reasons most of them related to the drama that grows from alliances and the people that take it way too seriously.

So I can't be subjective on the lag situation cuz I'm not feeling it.

But I'm pretty sure CCP will have it fixed eventually not the first time the lag monster rears it head, and I think people have rosey eyes on things too much

I mean look at Jita the second they upped the capacity of it that's how people behave in 0.0 fights too in my experience. people now jump in 1K people and expect the servers not too melt.



Its not just the blob groups that are feeling it. We moved a twenty or thirty person group a few jumps into null, started getting traffic control messages, lagged mods, the works. And we weren't even fighting someone at the time.

There have been nights where we've wanted to take gangs out, but the server has been too unreliable to handle it. Of course this happens on occasion, but it seems to be a lot more frequent and affecting of the small gang warfare these days.

Deamos
Dev Null Development and Holdings
Posted - 2010.08.02 23:47:00 - [66]
 

2003 player here. Since the beginning, Eve has been "dying". It will always be "dying". This game was a ton buggier back closer to release. I wish people would just be glad for the game they have and remember that CCP did start from a small company in Iceland and has grown to be quite a competitor in the MMORPG market. Congrats CCP and please keep up the good work.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.08.02 23:53:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Sandslinger
people now jump in 1K people and expect the servers not too melt.
…because a year ago, they didn't. Then they gave us Dominion, and suddenly they did. Then they gave us Tyrannis, and they did so even more.
Quote:
But I'm pretty sure CCP will have it fixed eventually not the first time the lag monster rears it head, and I think people have rosey eyes on things too much
Can you point to some period in the past when two major releases in a row gave us increased lag as a direct result of those expansions, even in the face of hardware upgrades? I'm willing to bet that those times you refer to were mainly due to what you gave examples of: more and more people cramming into the same system. That's not what's happening here though.

Instead, we have a situation where the developers have reduced the server performance. Twice.

JC Anderson
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2010.08.03 00:02:00 - [68]
 

Lag is one of the biggest issues alongside fixing bugs before adding new features.

In 06 we had lag during massive fleet ops as one would expect. Although it was annoying, it was still bearable. The lag as of now however is _far_ beyond bearable and much worse than anything back then. This is even the case with fights consisting of fewer numbers than the blob warfare of the past.

Dodgy Past
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Posted - 2010.08.03 00:09:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Dodgy Past on 03/08/2010 00:13:11
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 03/08/2010 00:10:42
When someone said that we can't even judge the success of Dominion because we've never had the chance to test it they hit the nail on the head.

The perception that is given is that all the 0.0 players might as well cancel their accounts for the foreseeable future as they aren't a significant part of the game... while management make sure hoops are jumped through whenever there is the slightest issue in Jita.

Beyond this we see media consultants pushing questionable information to the media organisations that ask questions, which is a strategy sure to completely destroy the trust of the more sophisticated members of the player base.

Until management is prepared to publicly admit that they are wrong, start correcting the course of the ship the players' faith is going to continue to be eroded.

This time it does seem different because many more people are coming to the conclusion that the tipping point has been passed and that management are incapable of the necessary clear headed introspection required to listen and get things back on track. Sadly the ignorant carebear rah rah crowd are providing them with justifications to ignore the troubled waters they have steered themselves into, and instead reinforcing their delusional reality.

Human nature is to listen to those that agree with you and find ways to discredit those that don't. Maybe if CCP considered the backgrounds and knowledge of the people posting in these threads then they might be able to judge the value of those opinions more accurately.

mandaro
Posted - 2010.08.03 00:44:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: mandaro on 03/08/2010 00:44:33
Originally by: Bad Princess
Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance?

My guess is the former............



Normally I would say the former, but the current anger and distrust are almost worse than the T20 incident.

The mob is angry, and it wants a reaction.

Edit: Spelling.

Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2010.08.03 01:23:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

Perhaps one difference from then to now is that back then, despite a lot of complaining, people seemed to realise what a diamond in the rough EvE is and accept it for what it is, rather than compare it to other games.



And when years after, the diamond is still rough and the developer openly communicate on its absence of intent to polish it, people that where hanging in there just waiting for it to be polished start to decide that they waited enough.

The game actually be better, but each issue that gets unfixed for years is frustration accumulated. They may look like details taken individually, but there are so many that they add up and make for a sentiment of complete neglect.

Devs all work on their 0.5 features, having no intent of making them 1.0 ever. Surely you can understand that people with minimal expectation of quality are disappointed?

Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2010.08.03 01:37:00 - [72]
 

Born May 2004.

Of all the whines I've ever seen, T20 was by far the loudest, although "18 months" also rates as one of the more qualified whines in recent times, since a lot of people do actually seem to be leaving over it.

/Ben

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2010.08.03 02:15:00 - [73]
 

It's called "Internet Negativity Syndrome".

The very condition of being at the computer also implies there is nothing else to do, or bored at work, and the day sucks.

Therefore when there is nothing much to say, what is said is negative.



Cors
It's A Trap
It's A Trap Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.03 02:30:00 - [74]
 

To the op.. Yes theres always naysayers/doomsayers, but this is different.

In the past we always had the next major update to look forward too. But now, those of us that focus on PVP as our entertainment, don't have anything to look forward to.

The next major release will be the winter one, which should be walking in stations or something, and the one after that will most likely be about Dust.

So, for the pvpers, nothing new. Sure DUST integration will give us fights over plantets, but nothing really NEW is coming out for pvpers for a long... long... LONG time...

So in otherwords, 0.0 stagnation, or everyone on the rinse repeat bus.


Kireiina
Posted - 2010.08.03 02:46:00 - [75]
 


Whining about game mechanics is a good sign to an extent because it means people really care. And the developers can simply say "we have some plans" and it dries up. Half the time the player-base are fighting each other anyway.

But if the player base comes to believe the developer doesn't care, that they're distracted or the game is in maintenance mode, the people start questioning their own commitment and are either hostile or simply fade away. This is amplified if the game has faults because letting the game "coast" is a lot less acceptable in that case.

The big difference is that only the second causes subs to start dropping, which of course reinforces the belief that the game is in decline. Eve is especially vulnerable to this since so much of its content is player made.


Xianthar
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.03 03:46:00 - [76]
 

There will be two responses to this topic:

Empire/Low-sec: "Its all the same whining as before"

0.0: "Eve is seriously ****ed"

You can argue back and forth all you want until you realize that much of the market action in empire is dependent on 0.0.

Once you realize this you will not only be able to make massive amounts of isk by paying attention to 0.0 but also realize that if 0.0 dies, so does the eve economy and everything that makes eve special.

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2010.08.03 04:59:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Virtuozzo

Communication, is one key aspect here. Trust another one.



Nice analysis.


On the point of trust I think I've nailed down exactly how mine has been broken.

When I started playing Eve it was when Application Service Provider and later Software-as-a-service were buzzwords.
This was a major selling point for me, it means I can continue to play a game that won't be ruined by feature bloat.

For me the whole concept of paying per-month for software is about longivity. I don't want to be using version 23 of some software
that is "expanded" every 12 months for the sole purpose of extracting another round of upgrade fees. Subscription software
creates a situation where existing customers are looked after without the need for needless product upgrades. I was happy.

It would appear the CCP has forgotten how subscription businesses work and has abandon their obligations.
If CCP is trapped into chasing new subscriptions with each cycle to maintain cash-flow then something is broken.


Mr M
Posted - 2010.08.03 05:43:00 - [78]
 

It's the same. Just remember all the people who left for SWG back in 2003. But back then 1% of the player base was 100 people. These days we're more and that one percent is a lot of people, and they can make quite some noise.

I believe CCP will get everything working sooner or later and then the people who left will return. And I will go ha-ha!

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2010.08.03 05:53:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Bad Princess
Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance?

My guess is the former............





Well devs started sucking after 2005
before that they actual listened to there player base.
The forums where a friendly place..
You actualy had good and fast support.
Now CCP think they are all that

Eve is all but dieing tough

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2010.08.03 06:18:00 - [80]
 

December 06 here. This isn't the biggest rage-bomb since I started playing(that would be t20), but it's probably in the top five. And given that two of those five were rage aimed at proposed changes that didn't ultimately go through - Zulu's carrier nerf and the whole Dominion last-minute changes nonsense - this scores pretty high on the list. It's also got a different character than the others, I think. t20 was...well, it was t20, any gaming community worth its salt would rage at that. The nano nerf and both the retracted ones were game mechanic changes, again pretty normal fare for game communities to rage over. But I don't think I've ever seen this level of big-picture frustration, in Eve or any other game. Nitpicking, sure. The occasional crank on the forums who yells about the sky falling, sure. But a widespread belief that the company making the game just doesn't care, and has abandoned a game that we pay for monthly? I haven't seen that before. I don't think it's quite as bad as all that, but the frustration is definitely real.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2010.08.03 06:46:00 - [81]
 

EVE Online: The Second Genesis was released in May 6, 2003, thus ruining the EVE franchise forever.

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.03 07:06:00 - [82]
 

The main problem is with the last expansions content.

EVE-Gate? No one asked for this and because of spying and distrust here, were few people will be willing to use it.

Planetary Management was just the drop that made the frustration spill over. A game mechanic that is in practice only a clickfest but yet players are forced to do exactly this clickfest because the economy depends on it, because without POS and POS-fuel there will be no shiny T2 ships and the cost of running a POS rising to astronomical levels.

As an example, content wise Alchemy was far worse the Planetary Management but at least it was completely optional and people could just ignore this 'feature', but Planetary Management can unfortunally not be ignored and therefore it added to a high amount of frustration.

Reintroduce the NPC sell orders for POS materials and shut down and lock any existing PI installation. Overhaul this mechanic soon or remove it.

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.03 07:57:00 - [83]
 

Early 04 player here and with all the drama that has happened this is quite different, to me atleast. I guess as an 0.0 player who has always loved the different pvp, small and large fleets to capfights im used to lag, sov grinds etc. but there was always something to look forward to, a devchat/blog here or a great fanfest presentations on "Need for Speed" or simply improving the overall gameplay.

Now with things still requiring work, from mods and ships that are only used in t2 production to faction warfare, lowsec and sov warfare, we read that in the next 18 months devs will work on bugs, graphics and evegate.

One example would be, at the last fanfext i believe, there was an presentation of sov warfare based on occupance not shooting things, atleast thats how i understood it. But now we have a system that requires two sides, often several alliances, to be in one system to take or defend it. Next to server improvements it would seem logical to change the sov system to something that would require alliances to fight in several systems so that the load can be spread. But now that we now it wont happen in almost 2 years.. Confused

WaiKin Beldar
Tormentum Insomniae
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.08.03 07:57:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Pesky LaRue

Perhaps one difference from then to now is that back then, despite a lot of complaining, people seemed to realise what a diamond in the rough EvE is and accept it for what it is, rather than compare it to other games.



And when years after, the diamond is still rough and the developer openly communicate on its absence of intent to polish it, people that where hanging in there just waiting for it to be polished start to decide that they waited enough.

The game actually be better, but each issue that gets unfixed for years is frustration accumulated. They may look like details taken individually, but there are so many that they add up and make for a sentiment of complete neglect.

Devs all work on their 0.5 features, having no intent of making them 1.0 ever. Surely you can understand that people with minimal expectation of quality are disappointed?


/Signed.

Back in 2003, this rough diamond counted implicitly with the trust and hopes of their original players for something unique you could not find anywhere. Some of us came later (2006 here) but still envisioned the true beauty of this product.

After several years bearing the same old crap features that cripple this game ( with some of them pompously announced and sold as "unique features among other games") , and simultaneously, being an involuntary audience for the lousy content that has been introduced periodically and nobody asked for, the old guard has developed a frustration feeling that has never stopped to grow since we could witness how little attention was devoted to the real problems and how much fanfare was added to the content, in an attempt to divert our claims and gain new flesh for the game under a brilliant firework show over a faulty base. Once the new flesh became experienced enough the amount of rage is mathematically bigger.

I wouldn't say the game is better. I'd say the game has developed and has matured as corresponding with its age, but it lacks tons of quality for carrying exactly the same old problems since its inception. As anyone can expect, adding more stuff doesn't solve the original code problems we still suffer anywhere at anytime, on the contrary, the probabilities of finding new inconsistencies with the latest expansion will make harder and harder to eradicate completely the original problems.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2010.08.03 08:08:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
EVE-Gate? No one asked for this and because of spying and distrust here, were few people will be willing to use it.


You know, you could have just said "I have no idea how EVE Gate works" and it would have been exactly as constructive as this statement, but a lot more honest.

Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
Reintroduce the NPC sell orders for POS materials and shut down and lock any existing PI installation. Overhaul this mechanic soon or remove it.


"I don't like this mechanic! Remove it! DO WHAT I SAY!"

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.03 08:53:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
EVE-Gate? No one asked for this and because of spying and distrust here, were few people will be willing to use it.


You know, you could have just said "I have no idea how EVE Gate works" and it would have been exactly as constructive as this statement, but a lot more honest.

Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
Reintroduce the NPC sell orders for POS materials and shut down and lock any existing PI installation. Overhaul this mechanic soon or remove it.


"I don't like this mechanic! Remove it! DO WHAT I SAY!"


Learn to read. Tyrannis in the current form is causing problems, not only for the slightly masochistic ones that wants to use it, but also with far reaching consequences for the whole economy. Now compare that with the promises of the last fanfest.

It is not whining, it is frustration with massive level of failure in the responsible development teams and QA.

But I will concede, certainly PI will be fixed in the next expansion and then it will be simply awesome, just like Factional Warfare and other mechanics. Right? Razz

HenkieBoy
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.08.03 09:40:00 - [87]
 

Eve dying.. well we get enough posts of that Rolling Eyes

But now there is something brewing.. discontent about CCP current direction. I have seen my share of expansions and each time they told that it was just the beginning and it was the basic of something epic.. but in the end they havent 'itterated' on any expansion.

Then there is the basic sandbox rules and interface that make EVE. They are 'not optimal' at best. This has to do with CCP current direction, make new stuff instead of fixing/itterating, but also with CCP employees. Recent changes show not all CCP devs are in touch with EVE and what it needs and what is doens't need.

I hope these recent outcry of discontent will make CCP's management rethink their position because I believe things will get worse if they really gonna wait 18 months before anything significant is gonna happen within EVE.


Jareck Hunter
Rubicon Legion
Posted - 2010.08.03 10:27:00 - [88]
 

2006 here.

Well i think, the new rage is different.

During the last years we always had the "hope" that the next expansion can bring the things we want and the devs promised to us.
We thougt they will work on things like FW, Lowsec, UI and so on.
We saw great presentations at Fanfest and got a CSM to tell CCP what we like to have in EvE.

But today we have a prove that they will not work on these thinks (CSM Minutes, DevBlog), for more than a year, nearly 2, and no guaranty that they will after that time.
Well ok the people screaming lag will not be fixed are just stupid and can't read, cause there is a team working on it since dominion(ok nearly 8 months), but other things will not improve during that time. So many simply loose theyr hope and post here at the forums.

On the other hand, we also have no information what Incarna or Dust will be and why so many people are working on it. We don't know how it will "improve" EvE. Maybe the DevBlog about Incarna, promised to CSM, should be written in the next weeks, so maybe some will understand what it is.

On the other hand we also have words like "excellence" flowing around and then we see things like clickfest-PI, no sectors, no polution, no population, or the "everything will be changed" Sov Mechanics, where we now shoot at less but bigger POS with static timers and pay isk to nobody.
I just remember Alchemy, wich based on numbers that were taken during the pos exploit was in effect, has it been changed since then?

I lost hope in CCP with Quantum Rise, the big promised Industrie Addon, made a 6 month break after it, was to disappointed. Since then i wait until the addon is on the server, and look at the features which made it into the game, not looking at the numerous promised.

DuPuy
Scrap Iron Flotilla
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.08.03 10:31:00 - [89]
 

I've been in-pod regularly since 2005.

I've tended to stay away from forums since the early days, once the learning curve flattened out and the never-ending negativeness of the forums became overwelming.

However, I'm inclined to join this outpouring of concern this time becase... I'm concerned.


EVE had always been taking strong, steady steps forward.
In the past, when there was a step backward - it was generally adressed in a matter of months, if not weeks.


Dominion, however, was different.


I had became used to regular fleet battles of 300+ pilots.
I took the smoothness of 50v50 battles for granted.

That changed with Dominion.

The change was such that I have seen many players abandon the large-scale combat of 0.0 for the "playability" of smaller-scale lowsec and Faction War combat... only to find similar long-term unresolved issues there.


The issue is the change to game play.
That's why we're here, afterall


Our quality of game experience has gone backwards - regardless of all the shiny new bells and whistles.

Don't get me wrong: the bells and whistles are nice.
Just not necessary for immersive gameplay.

We've been waiting a long time to actually want to go back into the large scale combat which shone so brightly there in 2007-2008.
Now, we just want to avoid it.

The longer we wait... the more old colleagues slip away...

So, is EVE dying?
Far from it.
But it's certainly looking a bit green around the gills.

Jastra
Gallente
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.03 10:33:00 - [90]
 

Long time player, but I often take breaks, every time I get back there is always an eve is dying thread, but then the server keeps breaking login records to it can't all be bad. Cant comment on the latest issues as I havent tried nor do I want to PI and dont do large fleets, otherwise seems business as usual.


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only