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blankseplocked [Fix] Transfer wardecs to individuals who leave their decced corp
 
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Slimy Worm
The Skunkworks
Posted - 2010.07.31 23:32:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Slimy Worm on 01/08/2010 17:26:20
Instead of fighting, paying the war deccer to cancel the war, or hiring mercs, players can join NPC corps or form new shadow corps to immediately not become valid wartargets.

Often, they immediately rejoin their old corp when the war ends. Unfortunately, CCP has deemed this not an exploit.

However, a simple fix is to make players who were at war at the time of the wardec remain at war for a week even if their new corporation isn't at war.

Something similar can be used on corps that leave their alliance to avoid a wardec: Corps who leave their alliance while it is at war will remain valid war targets for a week without the need to re-declare war.

As a game mechanic, wardecs are a good way to make highsec carebears actually risk something, and they (should) prevent people from opting out of PvP. It's one thing to stay docked up and fight smart fights, but Eve is a PvP game and there should be no opting out of PvP itself.

Bhattran
Posted - 2010.08.01 00:41:00 - [2]
 

No.

Pick on people who want to fight, or better yet go somewhere like lowsec or 00 where war decs don't mean crap.

Verdon Teraskun
Posted - 2010.08.01 01:04:00 - [3]
 

You're wardeccing the corp, not the actual players. Thus the way the game works, deal with it.

Not supported.

Goose99
Posted - 2010.08.01 01:18:00 - [4]
 

If you make noobies targets of constant hazing that they can't get away from, they won't renew their subscriptions. CCP is running a business, mouths to feed and bills to pay...Rolling Eyes

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2010.08.01 03:08:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Verdon Teraskun
You're wardeccing the corp, not the actual players. Thus the way the game works, deal with it.

Not supported.


Think twice before you war-dec.

Not Supported.

Want targets? Low Sec roams. (Something I recently discovered to be quite fun)

Slimy Worm
The Skunkworks
Posted - 2010.08.01 17:13:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Slimy Worm on 01/08/2010 17:16:29
Originally by: Bhattran
No.

Pick on people who want to fight, or better yet go somewhere like lowsec or 00 where war decs don't mean crap.


gb2wowkthxbai

Also post with your main

Originally by: Goose99
If you make rich carebears who know they can join NPC corps instead of paying extortion money targets of constant hazing that they can get away from, they will lose ISK but still be able to play the game.Rolling Eyes


Fixed for you

ThisIsNotMyAlt
Posted - 2010.08.01 17:46:00 - [7]
 

not supported

people have a right to personally evade wars with other players. if you wardec a corp where the majority of the players leave it afterwards then clearly you have choosen to wardec a corp that is not in the constitution of fighting back.

also the statement that "eve is a pvp game" is not entirely correct. eve is a sandbox style universe "simulator" that covers many aspects including pve and pvp.

Slimy Worm
The Skunkworks
Posted - 2010.08.01 17:52:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Slimy Worm on 01/08/2010 17:52:43
Originally by: ThisIsNotMyAlt
not supported

people have a right to personally evade wars with other players. if you wardec a corp where the majority of the players leave it afterwards then clearly you have choosen to wardec a corp that is not in the constitution of fighting back.

also the statement that "eve is a pvp game" is not entirely correct. eve is a sandbox style universe "simulator" that covers many aspects including pve and pvp.


They can pay extortion money or hire mercs if the don't want to fight. Instead, they usually corp hop and get NPC's (CONCORD) to protect them for free while they amass ISK with almost no risk in high sec.

ARandom Alt
Posted - 2010.08.01 18:04:00 - [9]
 

So you wardec a corp, and people leave the corp. Too bad. You wardecced a corp, not a player.

If you want to kill a specific player, you can kill them regardless of if you are at war or not. Any ship will pop if you bring a few friends to suicide gank them. Even their nice faction BS or marauder will go down to a coordinated gank. However, you appear unwilling to consider options like that, as it would require effort and coordination. It seems you aren't necessarily looking for fights as much as cheap kills.


Slimy Worm
The Skunkworks
Posted - 2010.08.01 18:17:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: ARandom Alt
So you wardec a corp, and people leave the corp. Too bad. You wardecced a corp, not a player.

If you want to kill a specific player, you can kill them regardless of if you are at war or not. Any ship will pop if you bring a few friends to suicide gank them. Even their nice faction BS or marauder will go down to a coordinated gank. However, you appear unwilling to consider options like that, as it would require effort and coordination. It seems you aren't necessarily looking for fights as much as cheap kills.




I know, I do this a lot. It takes only three or four artillery BS's to kill a Kronos.

ThisIsNotMyAlt
Posted - 2010.08.01 18:18:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Slimy Worm
Edited by: Slimy Worm on 01/08/2010 17:52:43
Originally by: ThisIsNotMyAlt
not supported

people have a right to personally evade wars with other players. if you wardec a corp where the majority of the players leave it afterwards then clearly you have choosen to wardec a corp that is not in the constitution of fighting back.

also the statement that "eve is a pvp game" is not entirely correct. eve is a sandbox style universe "simulator" that covers many aspects including pve and pvp.


They can pay extortion money or hire mercs if the don't want to fight. Instead, they usually corp hop and get NPC's (CONCORD) to protect them for free while they amass ISK with almost no risk in high sec.


and because high sec is less risky it is that all the valuable ore and rats are in lowsec and nullsec and w-space.
people sacrifice part of their income for more security. seems perectly balanced.

your motivation howerver is completly unbalanced. where is your risk when u wardec defenseless carebare corps ? why dont you wardec pvp oriantated corps ? afraid you might loose against an even enemy ?

Ori Blake
Posted - 2010.08.01 18:39:00 - [12]
 

A simpler thing would be to give a cooldown time for any player to join a corporation (except for NPC)after disbanding from one that's wardecced. This prevents using shell corps to avoid wardecs, while letting people who want to opt out a safe haven. If you disband corp due to a wardec, there should be some penalty, but not that.

Otherwise people will just play other games or use alts instead.

I SoStoned
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.01 18:39:00 - [13]
 

Been saying this for 5 years now... persistent flags per corp member.

Wholly supported.

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2010.08.01 19:23:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Bhattran
No.

Pick on people who want to fight, or better yet go somewhere like lowsec or 00 where war decs don't mean crap.


This.

Originally by: Verdon Teraskun
You're wardeccing the corp, not the actual players. Thus the way the game works, deal with it.

Not supported.


And This.

Slimy Worm
The Skunkworks
Posted - 2010.08.01 19:44:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Slimy Worm on 01/08/2010 19:53:47
Originally by: chatgris
Originally by: Bhattran
No.

Pick on people who want to fight, or better yet go somewhere like lowsec or 00 where war decs don't mean crap.


This.


There's a popular MMO that has PvE and PvP realms.

Battle Mage
Caldari
Just Another Corp Again
Posted - 2010.08.01 19:47:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Battle Mage on 01/08/2010 19:47:30
Originally by: Slimy Worm
There's a popular MMO that has PvE and PvP realms.

Yes, and so as EvE has both pvp and pve content.

Not supported.

Slimy Worm
The Skunkworks
Posted - 2010.08.01 19:51:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Slimy Worm on 01/08/2010 19:56:14
Originally by: Battle Mage
Edited by: Battle Mage on 01/08/2010 19:47:30
Originally by: Slimy Worm
There's a popular MMO that has PvE and PvP realms.

Yes, and so as EvE has both pvp and pve content.

Not supported.


"Eve has PvE and PvP content, therefore people should be able to corp hop to avoid wardecs" makes absolutely no sense. Reread your post, because you're essentially arguing that the existence of PvE content proves that people should be able to opt-out of wardecs instead of paying mercs, paying extortion, or fighting.

ThisIsNotMyAlt
Posted - 2010.08.01 20:10:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Slimy Worm


"Eve has PvE and PvP content, therefore people should be able to corp hop to avoid wardecs" makes absolutely no sense. Reread your post, because you're essentially arguing that the existence of PvE content proves that people should be able to opt-out of wardecs instead of paying mercs, paying extortion, or fighting.


What you are missing is that the peopble that can "hop to avoid wardecs" already do pay a price for this ability: The IMMENSE profitability difference between highsec and lowsec/0.0/wspace. There is no reason why ontop of that they should have to pay another price in form of paying mercs etc..

Slimy Worm
The Skunkworks
Posted - 2010.08.01 20:28:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: ThisIsNotMyAlt
Originally by: Slimy Worm


"Eve has PvE and PvP content, therefore people should be able to corp hop to avoid wardecs" makes absolutely no sense. Reread your post, because you're essentially arguing that the existence of PvE content proves that people should be able to opt-out of wardecs instead of paying mercs, paying extortion, or fighting.


What you are missing is that the peopble that can "hop to avoid wardecs" already do pay a price for this ability: The IMMENSE profitability difference between highsec and lowsec/0.0/wspace. There is no reason why ontop of that they should have to pay another price in form of paying mercs etc..



I'll bite.

Highsec is more profitable for most players (excluding people who can solo sanctums, miners in nullsec systems where very few neutrals roam, and a few other players like ones who can safely rat in NPC sov or good truesec 0.0) than lowsec, nullsec, or w-space because there's almost zero risk. Sure, you might make more per hour ratting in good truesec, but you also have to defend that space which takes time (and ISK if you lose your ship) and you're usually making next to nothing while flying in defensive fleets. You'll also lose a ratting ship every so often, even if you watch local.

The absence of actually having to spend time defending yourself in highsec makes it more profitable, for most players, than lowsec, nullsec, or w-space.

ThisIsNotMyAlt
Posted - 2010.08.01 20:34:00 - [20]
 

You said it yourself. Its a tradeoff between higher security and more profit.
Wether or not highsec or 0.0 is more profitable in the long run is very individual as per player. If you know alot of people, are in a bigger corp/alliance it is more profitable to be in lowsec/0.0 in the long run. If you play mostly solo then high sec is more profitable in the long run.

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2010.08.01 20:39:00 - [21]
 

I'm not against pvp by any means (just look me up on BC).

A wardec is against a corporation. By forcing members to leave the corporation, you've won. People can still end up playing this game if they are completely outclassed and outgunned by leaving their corporation.

The comments about lowsec and nullsec are not about "consensual pvp areas" so much as "it's a place you can go and shoot them anyways". On the topic of "pvp and pve realms" you can still shoot anyone in highsec without a wardec - just look at hulkageddon.

In the end - when you've completely outgunned and outclassed your opponent - he can retreat to relative safety in highsec, away from the corporation he may have known and loved. But continue to play the game in some capacity. He may not have the ISK to pay you or mercs.

You've won! IMO, take your victory and move on to find someone who wants to actually shoot back if that is your goal.

Vherkin
Amarr
War Cake
Posted - 2010.08.01 21:36:00 - [22]
 

Slimy, you know that most of the wardec in-sec are not monetary in mind?
Most of them will accept no money and just want to kill people who can't fight back for the lulz.

Hell, i can't count anymore the number of time corporation with close to nothing got war-dec without reason because they offered target.
You want to remove the only means to people for playing simply because you want thing more easy while you already have an option to kill the one who really worth it.

Worse, you would not achieve your end anyway because they would simply stay in a npc corp.
****, if is was not because of that i would be actually for it because rich carebear are not the only one who abuse that option. I helped a corp who got war-dec and when the attacker saw us coming what they did ? They hided in a npc corp. They only wanted easy target to ransom, not real fight.

Slimy Worm
The Skunkworks
Posted - 2010.08.02 02:39:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Vherkin
Slimy, you know that most of the wardec in-sec are not monetary in mind?
Most of them will accept no money and just want to kill people who can't fight back for the lulz.

Hell, i can't count anymore the number of time corporation with close to nothing got war-dec without reason because they offered target.
You want to remove the only means to people for playing simply because you want thing more easy while you already have an option to kill the one who really worth it.

Worse, you would not achieve your end anyway because they would simply stay in a npc corp.
****, if is was not because of that i would be actually for it because rich carebear are not the only one who abuse that option. I helped a corp who got war-dec and when the attacker saw us coming what they did ? They hided in a npc corp. They only wanted easy target to ransom, not real fight.


They still have the option to hire mercs (a lot corps will fight for free if you pay the dec fee) or fight the war-deccers themselves.

Arkanor
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
Posted - 2010.08.02 11:20:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Arkanor on 02/08/2010 11:19:59
Originally by: Slimy Worm

They still have the option to hire mercs (a lot corps will fight for free if you pay the dec fee) or fight the war-deccers themselves.


1. I haven't been in the trade, but I don't know many/any "mercenaries" that fight for free.

2. If they don't want to fight, they're not going to. Since the deccers are likely looking for targets, they lose by deccing someone who's going to run. I'd consider it a victory escaping from someone who wants to blast my defenseless ship at every turn.

I think the wardec mechanic needs an overhaul in general, but forcing people to endure griefing isn't it.

Icantseeanythinginthis
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.08.02 21:03:00 - [25]
 

Not supported. As said above, you are war deccing a corp or alliance.

I think if a corp is at war, there should be a 24hr window before a player can leave a corporation regardless of roles during war time, but not be a valid war target once he/she leaves the corporation.

Xorv
Posted - 2010.08.03 03:18:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Slimy Worm


Often, they immediately rejoin their old corp when the war ends. Unfortunately, CCP has deemed this not an exploit.



I support addressing this, but not your actual proposal.

How about a player that leaves a Corp after a War is declared, is unable to rejoin that Corp for a full month (or more) after the Wardec ends. Same with regards to Corps dropping out of alliances.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2010.08.03 04:21:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Drake Draconis on 03/08/2010 07:03:34
Originally by: Xorv


I support addressing this, but not your actual proposal.

How about a player that leaves a Corp after a War is declared, is unable to rejoin that Corp for a full month (or more) after the Wardec ends. Same with regards to Corps dropping out of alliances.


Works for me. But not the OP's idea that's for sure.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.08.03 17:44:00 - [28]
 

While I agree the issue needs to be addressed, I don't think the OP's got the right idea on how to do it. I can't think of a better one myself, but I'm certainly not going to support replacing one bad idea with another.

Better the devil you know and all that.

Not supported.

Slimy Worm
The Skunkworks
Posted - 2010.08.03 17:49:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Arkanor
Edited by: Arkanor on 02/08/2010 11:19:59
Originally by: Slimy Worm

They still have the option to hire mercs (a lot corps will fight for free if you pay the dec fee) or fight the war-deccers themselves.


1. I haven't been in the trade, but I don't know many/any "mercenaries" that fight for free.


It's usually ex-pirates or nullsec pvp'ers that have become mercs but need to build a name for their new banner.


 

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