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Steel Magnum
Posted - 2010.07.30 06:48:00 - [241]
 

Quote:
'CCP has invested significant time and resources throughout EVE's history on increasing the performance of fleet fights. We've always had a team of developers devoted to improving our technology and in recent years we made exponential headway through massive server upgrades and initiatives like "Stackless IO".


Ok so let me get this straight... CCP says "Eve has been increasing its performance"..... Players say "Fleet battles that used to happen can no longer happen do to "new" lag issues"... Hmmmm someone seems to be lying.

Zeuth Proxy
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.30 07:03:00 - [242]
 

What a lot of "Empire Dwellers" fail to realize is that what happens in 0,0 does in fact directly effect empire.

A majority of moon minerals which are used to build your marauders and hulks come from 0,0.

Almost all pirate faction mods which are used by a lot of empire dwellers come from 0,0.

War makes the Eve economy grow. Some forget whenever 0,0 is in a major war the mineral prices skyrocket empire production becomes alot more profitable. When 0,0 is stale then the economy tanks.

The recent outcry is more on the current direction CCP has been taking when it comes to this game. They seem to care more about quantity instead of quality. Every patch they have released things that are half finished and then leave them without fixing them. The fact that their priority was clearly stated that they are more focused on releasing new content instead of fixing things that are already in game is what angers most.

Most people are mad because they do genuinely LOVE this game, thats why they are acting the way they are. Due to seeing the game that they care about going in a direction which only cares about attracting newer players for a couple months and making profit then about some of us who have stuck with Eve and CCP for many years now.


Scyyy
Posted - 2010.07.30 07:06:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
Originally by: Ranger 1

Actually, yes he can. So can anyone else that knows anything about this type of work.
You have put in a nutshell the entire false premise than 99% of the people complaining about lag are spewing on the forums currently.

Yes, more people are working on Incarna. Incarna requires the input of a huge and diverse group of specialists, none of which are qualified to work on lag issues.

A 5 to 10 man specialist team working on the lag issues in EVE is dangerously close to a serious case of diminshing returns as it is.

If you put your best team of specialists on a project that involves probing deeping into the underlying code of EVE, you have made that issue a priority. How many graphic artists you have working on visuals and lighting algorithms for a future expansion is totally irrelevant. What is relevant is that you have your best team, skilled in the particular issue you are trying to resolve, working together to come up with a solution. These folks have the skills, they could be working on other aspects of EVE's code instead, but instead are devoting a significant portion of their time to a serious issue.

Not really sure how you can keep missing the point on this one.




That's absolutely laughable. I'm not sure why you're so interested in defending CCP over anything else. First, you miss the point of my post which was it's not just the lag, it's the existing features. Second, I know very well that you could put 20 people on analyzing the code changes from before december 09 and after, analyzing the results from fleet tests, and analyzing code in general, trying to figure out what is the bottleneck here. Don't try to tell me that only 5 people can work on fixing lag. There were many more working on it at one time, CCP could confirm this if they wanted to.
You really should probably learn a thing or two about programming before you talk. Personal attack removed.Applebabe

Nedefeg
Posted - 2010.07.30 08:43:00 - [244]
 

So this nice little restaurant that was selling only exclusive exotic food noone else in town sold, having relatively few but rich customers , who really enjoyed the special menu`s there....decided onr day, that because the Mcdonalds next door had so many more customers...the obvious thing to do is to start selling hamburgers aswell....so they tasked all there cooks to start on hamburgers asap


Theo Salvador
Posted - 2010.07.30 08:55:00 - [245]
 

you could see this as a good thing, stop playing boring, blob wars, it's about time ccp give small-scale pvp some sort of incentive so that gang sizes reduce and potentially save real pvp in this game rather than f1 to f8 corpsing.

JoBa70
Posted - 2010.07.30 11:31:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: Theo Salvador
you could see this as a good thing, stop playing boring, blob wars, it's about time ccp give small-scale pvp some sort of incentive so that gang sizes reduce and potentially save real pvp in this game rather than f1 to f8 corpsing.

I'm not into large scale fleet wars either. However, even I realize that 0.0 sov and the battles around it are at the heart of EVE.

And no, I don't see the solution in turning 0.0 into low sec and roam wit gangs of 20. If thats all whats left of EVE it would be as good as dead.

Kate McCann
Posted - 2010.07.30 11:37:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: Theo Salvador
you could see this as a good thing, stop playing boring, blob wars, it's about time ccp give small-scale pvp some sort of incentive so that gang sizes reduce and potentially save real pvp in this game rather than f1 to f8 corpsing.


I'm sure people are going to have lots of fun shooting 200 million EHP inhubs with 20 man gangs.

Krusty McNugget
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.07.30 11:37:00 - [248]
 

Edited by: Krusty McNugget on 30/07/2010 11:39:09
Edited by: Krusty McNugget on 30/07/2010 11:38:04
tl:dr Stop making new sh't, start fixing old s'hit


Originally by: Theo Salvador
you could see this as a good thing, stop playing boring, blob wars, it's about time ccp give small-scale pvp some sort of incentive so that gang sizes reduce and potentially save real pvp in this game rather than f1 to f8 corpsing.

Originally by: Theo Salvador
you could see this as a good thing, stop playing boring, blob wars, it's about time ccp give small-scale pvp some sort of incentive so that gang sizes reduce and potentially save real pvp in this game rather than f1 to f8 corpsing.


I know for a fact that more ppl do the small scale pvp now, because blob wars, wich btw could be fun 2 years ago.. is not in anyway possible to do now..

The situation today is, that with 60 other ppl in local you get lag on guns cycling, and drones exiting drone bays.. wich is bad, it wasent that bad before PI.. and id says 30 vs 30 is in the smaller end of the "blob" warfare scale.

Also, i had 1 of my chars go stuck, as in black screen on login, and 2 other chars giving me the same error repetedly with the following messege:
Your character has repeatedly failed loading on the server. This indicates a fault and support personnel need to be notified. Please file a petition.

Apologies for the inconvenience...
The EVE Dev Team.

This was in the system i was ratting in, i had 3 chars inthere and no one else was ratting at the time.. i filed a stuck petetion and got my char moved. when i contacted CCP (as the error says i should do) on my other 2 account wich did not get stuck but only recived the above error messege i was told to mearly clear my cache, i did not as im not the only one having issues, [irony]alto my corp mates was please to hear that i could fix all their lag related problems by just simply clearing the cache on my computer [/irony]

I dont think that lag is as bad as where im ratting everywhere, eg. my reaction towers system is not as bad. but the fact of the matter is, that theres an issue, and atleaset 100-200ppl living in the same area as me is loggin on everyday battlling 10-20 sec's of jump lag in quiet systems with 1 or 2 ppl in them, making trades in stations is like making trades in jita..

I was a verry sad panda, and still sorta is.. but reading that CCP has made this their top priority makes me a bit happy.. altho i would have had a ton more credebility and awseomness in it, if CCP had made it its priority without its subscribers forcing them into doing it.


Wintron Auto
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.30 11:39:00 - [249]
 

Edited by: Wintron Auto on 30/07/2010 12:02:28

voted a few times with my wallet already

funny, i seem to remember the saga of SWG ending this way too

I'm curious though, if anyone had facts as opposed to garbage, how long the average empire-dweller stays subscribed, versus how many accounts the average 0.0 warriah has for a length of 2 years or more... oh, and I'll believe this "lag #1 priority" bull**** when I see it in-game - god I hope I do see it, and if I do, I will "polish" so much CCP ass they will have enough polish for a polish team

*edit* to add my own guess: the average empire kiddy's account lasts 1 month, dragged down by the ten thousand throwaway trial accounts running at any time Laughing

oh, also, this:
Originally by: Zeuth Proxy
What a lot of "Empire Dwellers" fail to realize is that what happens in 0,0 does in fact directly effect empire.

A majority of moon minerals which are used to build your marauders and hulks come from 0,0.

Almost all pirate faction mods which are used by a lot of empire dwellers come from 0,0.

War makes the Eve economy grow. Some forget whenever 0,0 is in a major war the mineral prices skyrocket empire production becomes alot more profitable. When 0,0 is stale then the economy tanks.

The recent outcry is more on the current direction CCP has been taking when it comes to this game. They seem to care more about quantity instead of quality. Every patch they have released things that are half finished and then leave them without fixing them. The fact that their priority was clearly stated that they are more focused on releasing new content instead of fixing things that are already in game is what angers most.

Most people are mad because they do genuinely LOVE this game, thats why they are acting the way they are. Due to seeing the game that they care about going in a direction which only cares about attracting newer players for a couple months and making profit then about some of us who have stuck with Eve and CCP for many years now.


SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar
Aperture Science inc.
Posted - 2010.07.30 12:33:00 - [250]
 

"Voting with your wallet" as many (disgruntled) players seem to be suggesting might not be the 'best' course of action.
Regardless of what YOU might think about this game, I myself would like to continue to be able to play it.
Unsubbing my aco****(s) will not help towards that end whatever the results of it might be.

CCP has clearly stated in the CSM minutes that according to their 'research data' there is more to be gained for them by focussing on new customer aquisition by introducing new features and promoting these OVER polishing core systems in order to keep customer retainment high.

Wouldn't the obvious solution be to directly link customer retention (and satisfaction) with customer aquisition?


To put it simply:
Whining against CCP has proven to be useless as they simply don't value us (the players already paying for their game) over potential new players (people not yet paying for their game).
To make CCP see the light the only course of action that seems logical to me is to kick them where it hurts, where THEY care about.

Posting negative inside reviews/news/updates/rants/situational reports to all the major gaming (review/news) sites will affect new player aquisition much more than whatever new features they publish and promote.

They believe customer aquisition is more important than customer retention?
Well then I guess we will just have to show them nobody wants to start playing a game where half of the userbase is (vocally) unhappy about the game and/or the company producing said game.

+10 internets to OP for linking those sites.


May many more follow!


pro-tip: start sending out detailed factual reports to every single gaming site you know.
The more we send, the more likely they will post something.

Irritating Troll
Posted - 2010.07.30 13:26:00 - [251]
 

Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: BuckStrider
Quote:
But, you can't put out this, and then not acknowledge that you COMPLETELY FAIL to deliver on any aspect of anything that's happening in that video.


Of any thread running right now....This line is the best response of any.

10/10

Wtb: Dominion trailer that shows a 1000 ship fleet fight.

At the *most* there might have beem a bit over a hundred in system if you had actually took the time to pause the video and count the ships. That amount of pilots in a single system is *perfectly* playable right now as long as you tell ccp ahead of time. Very Happy

But hey lets not let silly stuff like logic get in the way of a good rant thread. ugh
Epic failsauce, and lack of forum situational awareness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq2oxt7Nrxo&annotation_id=annotation_138481&feature=iv

Pay special attention to what is said at 1:30.

The game IS advertised as being able to sustain those gigantic engagements.

Keen Fallsword
Posted - 2010.07.30 14:27:00 - [252]
 

CCP - you got problem. What about players strike ? jita ?

alittlebirdy
Posted - 2010.07.30 15:27:00 - [253]
 

Originally by: Irritating Troll

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq2oxt7Nrxo&annotation_id=annotation_138481&feature=iv

Pay special attention to what is said at 1:30.

The game IS advertised as being able to sustain those gigantic engagements.


But if you notice, the game is advertised with bugs... and fail... first off why is the hulk being nueted and still mining, then why does he have no strip miners on once everyone is killed? Teh fail and teh bugs! lol

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.30 17:29:00 - [254]
 

Quote:
What a lot of "Empire Dwellers" fail to realize is that what happens in 0,0 does in fact directly effect empire.

A majority of moon minerals which are used to build your marauders and hulks come from 0,0.

Almost all pirate faction mods which are used by a lot of empire dwellers come from 0,0.


And none of that **** comes from fleet warfare. Your Just ****ed because you think CCP doesn't listen to 0.0 dwellers. I am glad they don't listen to ANY trolls. For example there is a 20 some page thread about nerfing the drake. Plead your case using logic next time.

achoura
Posted - 2010.07.30 17:37:00 - [255]
 

Aye but the problem is ever since faction warfare taking 100 people into lowsec causes more lag than a 0.0 fleet fight :)

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.07.30 17:42:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Irritating Troll
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: BuckStrider
Quote:
But, you can't put out this, and then not acknowledge that you COMPLETELY FAIL to deliver on any aspect of anything that's happening in that video.


Of any thread running right now....This line is the best response of any.

10/10

Wtb: Dominion trailer that shows a 1000 ship fleet fight.

At the *most* there might have beem a bit over a hundred in system if you had actually took the time to pause the video and count the ships. That amount of pilots in a single system is *perfectly* playable right now as long as you tell ccp ahead of time. Very Happy

But hey lets not let silly stuff like logic get in the way of a good rant thread. ugh
Epic failsauce, and lack of forum situational awareness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq2oxt7Nrxo&annotation_id=annotation_138481&feature=iv

Pay special attention to what is said at 1:30.

The game IS advertised as being able to sustain those gigantic engagements.
The video he had linked was the Dominion trailer not the Butterfly Effect so what was that about forum situational awareness? Razz

As far as what as said about epic fleet fights with thousands of players at 1:30? Welp the Butterfly Effect trailer came out before Dominion when epic thousand ship fleet fights were still doable. So maybe ccp should go back and edit it then just to make you happy? Very Happy

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2010.07.30 18:58:00 - [257]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones

I am glad they don't listen to ANY trolls.


No kidding. You'd give them one hell of a headache.

Wu Jiaqiu
Minmatar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.07.30 21:22:00 - [258]
 

Edited by: Wu Jiaqiu on 30/07/2010 21:22:30
hopefully this is the push ccp needs to fix the lag

Doppleganger
Minmatar
Band of Builders Inc.
Sodalitas XX
Posted - 2010.07.30 22:01:00 - [259]
 

The thing is many people that are shouting now are probably the ones that have done 0.0 warfare for years with much less lag then we are seeing now. I can remember 300 people fights in the past that were much more playable then they are now.

Is it too much to ask for to have the playing experience as enjoyable without lag now as it was yrs ago?

Zeuth Proxy
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.31 00:01:00 - [260]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
What a lot of "Empire Dwellers" fail to realize is that what happens in 0,0 does in fact directly effect empire.

A majority of moon minerals which are used to build your marauders and hulks come from 0,0.

Almost all pirate faction mods which are used by a lot of empire dwellers come from 0,0.


And none of that **** comes from fleet warfare. Your Just ****ed because you think CCP doesn't listen to 0.0 dwellers. I am glad they don't listen to ANY trolls. For example there is a 20 some page thread about nerfing the drake. Plead your case using logic next time.


Majority of fleet warfare IS over high end moons. As well as Sov wars to allow for space to rat and plex in some what safety.

While you may think I lack logic, it is you who fail at realizing and understanding the residual effects of EvE.


5kyscreamx
Mad Bombers
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.07.31 00:06:00 - [261]
 

unsubbing 3 accounts will come back when you ******s fix your game.

Kylod
Invictus Australis
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.31 05:19:00 - [262]
 

Here's to the future. One where lag won't decide the fate of epic battles. Indeed CCP has created a masterpiece. I hope they (the developers) understand that the EVE comunity is fighting for the game. What I see happening here is a failure to communicate between the two parties. Trust is at an all time low. Introducing more features before the lag issue is fixed is going to be seen as another stab in the back. Regretably, more features will be introduced. I just hope that the features bring in enough new subscribers so that CCP can then allocate the extra revenue to fix the problem. Kinda a chicken and egg scenerio.

tmasher
Posted - 2010.07.31 05:35:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: Kylod
I just hope that the features bring in enough new subscribers so that CCP can then allocate the extra revenue to fix the problem. Kinda a chicken and egg scenerio.


It won't. CCP will most likely continue on the downward spiral to seduce more and more new players at an increasing rate because there's more money in it for them. The number of new players they can bring in by flashing shiny new things to gamers outweighs the number of old players they'd maintain by actually addressing the now-uncountable number of problems plaguing every single aspect of this game. For every disgruntled vet that quits Eve there are 10 new people signing up.

This new report by a more-or-less popular external 3rd party is a step in the right direction. You want to force CCP to address these issues? Start scaring potential new players off by giving Eve the bad press it deserves.

Alice D
Posted - 2010.07.31 06:10:00 - [264]
 

What lag?

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.07.31 06:14:00 - [265]
 

Originally by: tmasher
Originally by: Kylod
I just hope that the features bring in enough new subscribers so that CCP can then allocate the extra revenue to fix the problem. Kinda a chicken and egg scenerio.


It won't. CCP will most likely continue on the downward spiral to seduce more and more new players at an increasing rate because there's more money in it for them. The number of new players they can bring in by flashing shiny new things to gamers outweighs the number of old players they'd maintain by actually addressing the now-uncountable number of problems plaguing every single aspect of this game. For every disgruntled vet that quits Eve there are 10 new people signing up.

This new report by a more-or-less popular external 3rd party is a step in the right direction. You want to force CCP to address these issues? Start scaring potential new players off by giving Eve the bad press it deserves.
So much anger out of so few players. We all realize that fleet fights suck arse but really what does that have to do with the vast majority of players who never see any lag whatsoever in their daily routines?

So to make your argument a little clearer could you maybe list every single uncountable problem that plagues ever single aspect of eve? I mean I like to dabble in pretty much everything eve has to offer past lulz fleet fights that exist to really only settle some e-peen score a couple of the major alliance leaders have with each other. Lets be realistic. Most alliances are run by less than 10 players with the thousands of other members pretty much being cannon fodder and mules with absolutely no say in anything.

So who the hell is going to quit? 10 players with too much ego or the other few thousand players who are just as happy grinding l4 missions as they are grinding pos down to hull?

This my friends is the real motivation behind all the rage atm: A bunch of silly e-peening players pulling the wool over their entier alliances eyes just to make sure their egos are stoked.ugh

Xroxreariad Ramatarapap
Posted - 2010.07.31 07:49:00 - [266]
 

Edited by: Xroxreariad Ramatarapap on 31/07/2010 07:53:28
Originally by: Zeba
Most alliances are run by less than 10 players with the thousands of other members pretty much being cannon fodder and mules with absolutely no say in anything.

And yet those thousands of living human drones have that interesting idea that if their small niche in this game is broken, everything must be broken and whole Eve is going straight down to hell.

Originally by: Zeba
This my friends is the real motivation behind all the rage atm: A bunch of silly e-peening players pulling the wool over their entier alliances eyes just to make sure their egos are stoked.ugh

/thread

Bonny Lee
Caldari
Starkstrom
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2010.07.31 09:00:00 - [267]
 

2006 there was lag too, but the community wasnt filled with crybabys that do think nothing ist done, because they dont get a solution after the second the cry. Damn go home and play something else if you dont like the state of eve. It sucks so much to read this forum these days.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.07.31 09:08:00 - [268]
 

Originally by: Bonny Lee
2006 there was lag too, but the community wasnt filled with crybabys that do think nothing ist done, because they dont get a solution after the second the cry. Damn go home and play something else if you dont like the state of eve. It sucks so much to read this forum these days.


wtf are you smoking? The forums were exactly the same in 2006/7 - every third post mentioned lag.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.07.31 09:21:00 - [269]
 

Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: tmasher
Originally by: Kylod
I just hope that the features bring in enough new subscribers so that CCP can then allocate the extra revenue to fix the problem. Kinda a chicken and egg scenerio.


It won't. CCP will most likely continue on the downward spiral to seduce more and more new players at an increasing rate because there's more money in it for them. The number of new players they can bring in by flashing shiny new things to gamers outweighs the number of old players they'd maintain by actually addressing the now-uncountable number of problems plaguing every single aspect of this game. For every disgruntled vet that quits Eve there are 10 new people signing up.

This new report by a more-or-less popular external 3rd party is a step in the right direction. You want to force CCP to address these issues? Start scaring potential new players off by giving Eve the bad press it deserves.
So much anger out of so few players. We all realize that fleet fights suck arse but really what does that have to do with the vast majority of players who never see any lag whatsoever in their daily routines?


Are you really this ignorant, or are you just playing devil's advocate here? Most people who've been playing more than a couple of months have at least an inkling of how the hi-sec and 0.0 economies affect each other.

Just to give you the most obvious example: where do you think the low end minerals to build all those capitals and supercaps comes from? What effect on a humble hi-sec miner do you think lag making fleet combat impractical has had?

Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
Posted - 2010.07.31 09:23:00 - [270]
 

If you want to show your discontent even more logon to mmorpg.com and change your vote to express your current appreciation for the state of the game.

Such things do have an influence.


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