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Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:10:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
yes he did, ...majority of players in fact...see the word fact there, he's assuming most people would rather see WiS instead of fixing fleet lag
No. He's saying it wouldn't be a surprise to see that this was the case. He's not saying it is a fact — he's saying that if it were, it wouldn't be particularly odd.

Gumpy Nighthawk
Amarr
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:11:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Fenring
Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 29/07/2010 14:05:40
Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
yes he did, ...majority of players in fact...see the word fact there, he's assuming most people would rather see WiS instead of fixing fleet lag, while i'm assuming most people will find WiS useless and would rather see the lag fixed before new major content is added.

If you read the The Fourth Quarter, Economic Newsletter for 2009 (page 6) you'll see that over 80% of players live in Empire space.

I said (as fact) that most people don't go to 0.0 a lot and I said it wouldn't surprise me if those people would in fact love Incarna above resolving the fleet lag issue. Not stating that as fact, just the "most people don't live in 0.0" part.


So what you are saying is that even though the majority of ppl live in empire, means that the voice of almost 70k accounts should not be heard? Of those empire dwellers i'm pretty sure a part of those play FW and tbh FW is also broken as it is, with laggy situations and after its introduction has not had any love anymore. So its not just the lag, which for me is the biggest problem with ccp atm, but also the addition of features which don't get any attention anymore after they have been released. Yeah well maybe in 18 months from now

Average Jack
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:11:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Caldrion Dosto
I mean trade alts, and hauler, mining alts is totally unheard of right? Rolling Eyes


What game are you playing? It's unheard of that anyone might have more then 1 character! Just think about the effort involved! It takes so long to reach level 80, anyone with more then 1 character has no real life anyway.

Oh wait...

Anddeh McNab
Cadre Assault Force
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:11:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: edtheshed
Edited by: edtheshed on 29/07/2010 12:59:47
Hurf a derp derp herpa derp


Play something else then.

edtheshed
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:28:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Anddeh McNab
Originally by: edtheshed
Edited by: edtheshed on 29/07/2010 12:59:47
Hurf a derp derp herpa derp


Play something else then.


haha did i say anything at all about me not liking the game?

no i just provided a link to an article

Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:35:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 29/07/2010 14:42:12
Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
So what you are saying is that even though the majority of ppl live in empire, means that the voice of almost 70k accounts should not be heard? Of those empire dwellers i'm pretty sure a part of those play FW and tbh FW is also broken as it is, with laggy situations and after its introduction has not had any love anymore. So its not just the lag, which for me is the biggest problem with ccp atm, but also the addition of features which don't get any attention anymore after they have been released. Yeah well maybe in 18 months from now

No.

You said "something useless like Walking in Stations". I replyed that it may be that more people would actually find WiS a nicer and more useful feature than lagless fleet battles. I didn't say the 70k should be ignored because they're not a majority. Actually I think it should be fixed as I also want to participate in fleet battles in the near future.
And even though I'd love to see WiS I'm also concerned about all the loose ends things in EVE and I'm not sure WiS will be any better if CCP goes on with introducing new things and then start to do something else before making sure things are fully working and bug free.

So Sensational
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:42:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Fenring
Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 29/07/2010 14:05:40
Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
yes he did, ...majority of players in fact...see the word fact there, he's assuming most people would rather see WiS instead of fixing fleet lag, while i'm assuming most people will find WiS useless and would rather see the lag fixed before new major content is added.

If you read the The Fourth Quarter, Economic Newsletter for 2009 (page 6) you'll see that over 80% of players live in Empire space.

I said (as fact) that most people don't go to 0.0 a lot and I said it wouldn't surprise me if those people would in fact love Incarna above resolving the fleet lag issue. Not stating that as fact, just the "most people don't live in 0.0" part.

Hello.
I drew a picture for you to show you why your logic is flawed: http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/7582/divisionofplayerbase.png

As you can see, red does not move outside the circle. Blue does however move inside.
Another interesting fact is that the more "hardcore" players are more likely to have reached the "endgame" (Not that you can really call it that, but it's what drives the game and where people strive to be) that is nullsec. These hardcore players tend to be the ones with multiple accounts, as opposed to your "log on once a day and run some missions" carebears. Unsatisfied blue dots = Less black dots.

Image changed to URL. Zymurgist

JS LiamElms
Gallente
Zor Industries
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:43:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
Now lets hope some bigger gaming news related websites will also place this on their websites and hopefully ccp will finally fix their game instead of working on something useless like Walking in Stations...


i too hope the article grows legs and spreads!!

also, lol.. people so trying tou out do each other on facts! Here's another one, i have 3 alts/chars in empire 3 in 0.0... i spend about 90% of my time playing the 0.0 ones. the ones in epmire are either market hub chars/mission running/freighter alts... ALL suplying my 0.0/lowsec/pvp activities.

Squat Hardpeck
State Protectorate
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:45:00 - [39]
 

Worse article in history. Because the forum-goers count for such a large percentage of the game's population.

Don't make me laugh.

Gumpy Nighthawk
Amarr
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:46:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Gumpy Nighthawk on 29/07/2010 14:49:57
Originally by: Squat Hardpeck
Worse article in history. Because the forum-goers count for such a large percentage of the game's population.

Don't make me laugh.


How does the ass of ccp smell? Cause you seem to be into it pretty deep...

BBQfire
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:49:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
Originally by: Squat Hardpeck
Worse article in history. Because the forum-goers count for such a large percentage of the game's population.

Don't make me laugh.


How does the ass of ccp smell? Cause you seem to be pretty far deep into it...



muhahaha

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:53:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Squat Hardpeck
Worse article in history. Because the forum-goers count for such a large percentage of the game's population.

Don't make me laugh.
Perhaps not, but forum-goers here are likely to be forum-goers elsewhere and be the kind of people who like to talk about their important internet hobbies to anyone who accidentally wanders into hearing range…

…and guess what message they're going to hear?

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:53:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Fenring
Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 29/07/2010 14:39:22
Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
So what you are saying is that even though the majority of ppl live in empire, means that the voice of almost 70k accounts should not be heard? Of those empire dwellers i'm pretty sure a part of those play FW and tbh FW is also broken as it is, with laggy situations and after its introduction has not had any love anymore. So its not just the lag, which for me is the biggest problem with ccp atm, but also the addition of features which don't get any attention anymore after they have been released. Yeah well maybe in 18 months from now

No.

You said "something useless like Walking in Stations". I replyed that it may be that more people would actually find WiS a nicer and more useful feature than lagless fleet battles. I didn't say the 70k should be ignored because they're not a majority. Actually I think it should be fixed as I also want to participate in fleet battles in the near future. And even though I'd love to see WiS I'm also concerned about all the loose ends things in EVE and I'm not sure WiS will be any better.


Unfortunately it is human nature to over react. In this case, when the aspect of the game a person is most interested in begins to have issues the automatic response is "the whole game is broken"... even when that is blatantly not the case.

Just as in many peoples minds...

... balance tweaks = bugs.
... their own pet vision of what they would like to see introduced/reworked = an oversight in game design.
... any expansion focus coming up that does not directly relate to their personal focus = upcoming useless feature.
... whatever petition issue they last turned in that did not get resolved in their favor = bad customer service.
... any dev response that explained the game development process as something other that what they previously believed = corporate doublespeak and lies from "the man".

It's pretty hard to make significant headway against illogic like that.

alittlebirdy
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:55:00 - [44]
 

This thread is win!

Squat Hardpeck
State Protectorate
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:57:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Squat Hardpeck on 29/07/2010 14:58:41
Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
Edited by: Gumpy Nighthawk on 29/07/2010 14:49:57
Originally by: Squat Hardpeck
Worse article in history. Because the forum-goers count for such a large percentage of the game's population.

Don't make me laugh.


How does the ass of ccp smell? Cause you seem to be into it pretty deep...

Because we don't have to question the validity of a thrown-together article that offers nothing other than 7-8 posters from General Discussion portraying as if that's the overall opinion of the game from the majority of the population when it aligns with our opinions! AMIRITE?

sinfulangel
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:57:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: sinfulangel on 29/07/2010 14:57:44
I hope this is just the start and larger news entities pick up on the story.

With enough bad press maybe CCP will wake up and change their direction before they follow in the footsteps of SWG.

Bad press also gets to the investors and money men who likely don't read these forums.

I certainly find it intriguing that a gaming company is asking for it's player base to support them in winning an award only to be laughed at and trolled at how horribly broken their game has become.

So Sensational
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:06:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Squat Hardpeck
Edited by: Squat Hardpeck on 29/07/2010 14:58:41
Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
Edited by: Gumpy Nighthawk on 29/07/2010 14:49:57
Originally by: Squat Hardpeck
Worse article in history. Because the forum-goers count for such a large percentage of the game's population.

Don't make me laugh.


How does the ass of ccp smell? Cause you seem to be into it pretty deep...

Because we don't have to question the validity of a thrown-together article that offers nothing other than 7-8 posters from General Discussion portraying as if that's the overall opinion of the game from the majority of the population when it aligns with our opinions! AMIRITE?

Yes this was the logic with SWG too, surely this vocal minority that has devoted so much time to this game has no clue what might be broken with it, all those players who never even visit the forums would never quit our game and all our changes, no matter how upsetting they might be, are great.

Miss Connolly
Public Relations Corp
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:06:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Unfortunately it is human nature to over react. In this case, when the aspect of the game a person is most interested in begins to have issues the automatic response is "the whole game is broken"... even when that is blatantly not the case.


I sort of agree with you there. However (and that is an important factor to remember) fleet fights (the currently broken feature) is the main sales argument for EVE and the main motivation for most long-term players (because lets face it - highsec PVE is very boring and countless features in EVE work in 0.0 only such as Sov, Capitals, player politics and many other such things that brought EVE into the media in the past - and attracted new players).

When I try and win over new people for EVE (currently not an option of course) then the main thing that impresses them is 0.0 sov warfare with its fleet fights and the fact that you build up, defend and destroy entire player run empires. Once they join and notice that they're pretty much doomed to farm extremely boring missions or buy ETC then most of them quit again. Either that or they join a 0.0 alliance.

It's like if you buy a car and notice that something is broken: if it's only a small feature such as the left knob on the stereo that's a bit "sticky" then you'll probably just ignore it. On the other hand if you start driving and the wheels fall off once you go faster then 50mph then that is a little more serious and merits a different response.

So the over-reaction is not so huge either.

Al3xii
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:10:00 - [49]
 

Need to make Steven Colbert aware of EVEs problems =). Anyone got his number? =)

Squat Hardpeck
State Protectorate
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:13:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Squat Hardpeck on 29/07/2010 15:15:12
Originally by: So Sensational
Originally by: Squat Hardpeck
Edited by: Squat Hardpeck on 29/07/2010 14:58:41
Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
Edited by: Gumpy Nighthawk on 29/07/2010 14:49:57
Originally by: Squat Hardpeck
Worse article in history. Because the forum-goers count for such a large percentage of the game's population.

Don't make me laugh.


How does the ass of ccp smell? Cause you seem to be into it pretty deep...

Because we don't have to question the validity of a thrown-together article that offers nothing other than 7-8 posters from General Discussion portraying as if that's the overall opinion of the game from the majority of the population when it aligns with our opinions! AMIRITE?

Yes this was the logic with SWG too, surely this vocal minority that has devoted so much time to this game has no clue what might be broken with it, all those players who never even visit the forums would never quit our game and all our changes, no matter how upsetting they might be, are great.

Exactly! Because when less than 12% of the current EVE population resides in 0.0 I can see how the majority of people who DON'T visit the forums will quit over fleet lag! And we can also compare apples to oranges when fleet lag is the cornerstone of the rage people are exhibiting to the massive amount of gameplay changes the devs were instituting in SWG to change the face of the entire game. This makes sense! And then we'll use Incarna and Dust as a counter point to what was just said only to forget that they won't affect the "Spaceshipiness" that EVE currently offers!

Prez21
Alpha Strike.
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:18:00 - [51]
 

I understand that eve doesnt revolve around the 0.0 population but i do know that eves main selling point does, people do not get interested in eve because they heard how great level 4 missions are or how that high sec mining corp stripped an entire asteriod belt, people get interested in eve because of the player driven story lines which nearly always come from the people of 0.0, just look at the media coverage of eve, it is nearly always about the huge scale wars that take place, if you deny this your just stupid or ignorant.

I understand that high sec and low sec play a massive part in this game and im not trying to diminsh what these players achieve or critize there style of play, but what they need to understand is eves main selling point is pvp and it gets no bigger than 0.0 pvp, i hate blobs, i hate the banding together alliances do, so im not being biased to my style of play but what i do know is the big alliances and there wars are the biggest selling points eve has, and without these eve is nothing and if you think im wrong ask the orignal devs who were there from the start they will tell you eve was built to be harsh, dark and full of explosions, the rest is just the build up to it.

Al3xii
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:26:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Al3xii on 29/07/2010 15:29:47
Actually , i just visited the sticky of CCP to vote for em for that Euro game award. Not much love there from community. So how about some of the CCP defenders from this topic move to that one and get torn apart ? Ty. Should be entertaining to read.

Edit For = From.

Plumpy McPudding
Profit Development and Research Association
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:28:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Al3xii
Actually , i just visited the sticky of CCP to vote for em for that Euro game award. Not much love there for community. So how about some of the CCP defenders from this topic move to that one and get torn apart ? Ty. Should be entertaining to read.


I can see it now. 99% of the people in that thread will rage at CCP, not vote with their wallets, and continue to play the game.

Solomon XI
Hidden Souls
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:31:00 - [54]
 

So how does this bode for the whole Microsoft/CCP interaction? Laughing


Al3xii
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:32:00 - [55]
 

Inevitable from a certain perspective. A lot of ppl including myself bought a big chunk of time in 1 go. Money paid. And the coming back part - EVE is unique. Even broken as it is at the moment. They hope ( like my mother hoped that if she will bug me enough every day - ill quit smoking ) that if they bug CCP they might see a change for the better. Not ready to give up yet.

Squat Hardpeck
State Protectorate
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:36:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Squat Hardpeck on 29/07/2010 15:37:36
Originally by: Al3xii
Inevitable from a certain perspective. A lot of ppl including myself bought a big chunk of time in 1 go. Money paid. And the coming back part - EVE is unique. Even broken as it is at the moment. They hope ( like my mother hoped that if she will bug me enough every day - ill quit smoking ) that if they bug CCP they might see a change for the better. Not ready to give up yet.

See, this is a good stance to have. Something a majority of the people in the thread you mention fail to see. CCP is working to fix fleet lag and some of the bugs brought on by Tyrannis. If people actually read the dev blogs and some of the Dev's comments, they said up and down that bug fixes to these problems will be instituted leading up to and including the winter expansion.

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3

Etc.

edtheshed
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:37:00 - [57]
 

update!!!:Linkage

maybe a fix is on the way!

BBQfire
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:38:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Miss Connolly
Originally by: Ranger 1

...
It's like if you buy a car and notice that something is broken: if it's only a small feature such as the left knob on the stereo that's a bit "sticky" then you'll probably just ignore it. On the other hand if you start driving and the wheels fall off once you go faster then 50mph then that is a little more serious and merits a different response.
...



this is a great comparison! it says all.

Al3xii
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:41:00 - [59]
 

Man power allocation and the "Polished product brings less money then new features" reply from a CCPs big boy, got the community stirred. Some dont trust the devs no more. I can understand why.

Mel Dareia
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:42:00 - [60]
 

"One prominent forumite told CVG today that the game is "broken" ..."

Stopped reading here because I needed to wipe some coffee off my screen. That was good, thanks!

Laughing


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