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Liranan
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.07.31 11:36:00 - [271]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
What a lot of "Empire Dwellers" fail to realize is that what happens in 0,0 does in fact directly effect empire.

A majority of moon minerals which are used to build your marauders and hulks come from 0,0.

Almost all pirate faction mods which are used by a lot of empire dwellers come from 0,0.


And none of that **** comes from fleet warfare. Your Just ****ed because you think CCP doesn't listen to 0.0 dwellers. I am glad they don't listen to ANY trolls. For example there is a 20 some page thread about nerfing the drake. Plead your case using logic next time.


You want to know what EVE will be like without the activity that comes from 0.0? Go play on Serenity for a week. Hulks are 500m, HACs are more and caps are very, very rare. You know absolutely nothing about the game, bar the missions you run.

Xroxreariad Ramatarapap
Posted - 2010.07.31 12:00:00 - [272]
 

Edited by: Xroxreariad Ramatarapap on 31/07/2010 12:09:52
Originally by: Liranan
You want to know what EVE will be like without the activity that comes from 0.0? Go play on Serenity for a week. Hulks are 500m, HACs are more and caps are very, very rare.


Maybe. And if you ask me that would be best thing to happen in last 5 years - loss would again mean something. Although I bet you rich trigger happy 0.0 kids would not be very happy with that change. Because you just love hotdropping multiple carriers on lone t3 cruiser, don't you?

Baastardo
Posted - 2010.07.31 13:19:00 - [273]
 

Originally by: Xroxreariad Ramatarapap
Edited by: Xroxreariad Ramatarapap on 31/07/2010 12:09:52
Originally by: Liranan
You want to know what EVE will be like without the activity that comes from 0.0? Go play on Serenity for a week. Hulks are 500m, HACs are more and caps are very, very rare.


Maybe. And if you ask me that would be best thing to happen in last 5 years - loss would again mean something. Although I bet you rich trigger happy 0.0 kids would not be very happy with that change. Because you just love hotdropping multiple carriers on lone t3 cruiser, don't you?


Here is me praying that no one ever asks you!

Doppleganger
Minmatar
Band of Builders Inc.
Sodalitas XX
Posted - 2010.07.31 16:35:00 - [274]
 

Originally by: Zeba
So much anger out of so few players. We all realize that fleet fights suck arse but really what does that have to do with the vast majority of players who never see any lag whatsoever in their daily routines?

So to make your argument a little clearer could you maybe list every single uncountable problem that plagues ever single aspect of eve? I mean I like to dabble in pretty much everything eve has to offer past lulz fleet fights that exist to really only settle some e-peen score a couple of the major alliance leaders have with each other. Lets be realistic. Most alliances are run by less than 10 players with the thousands of other members pretty much being cannon fodder and mules with absolutely no say in anything.

So who the hell is going to quit? 10 players with too much ego or the other few thousand players who are just as happy grinding l4 missions as they are grinding pos down to hull?

This my friends is the real motivation behind all the rage atm: A bunch of silly e-peening players pulling the wool over their entier alliances eyes just to make sure their egos are stoked.ugh



How much rage do you think there would be if this same lvl of lag effected lvl 4 mission? Heck I have seen the rage when a couple of missioners lose a ship over lag and and it makes this seem tame by comparison. 0.0 pvp has been a standard in the game since I started back in '03. It has had as about as much to with this game being a sandbox then probably anything else in game. The player run empires in my opinion add more to the game then the mostly static NPC empires do.

I would need to check but I believe there has been more news stories about player driven events from 0.0 then there has ever been from empire. Why would CCP not want to fix that part of the game asap and not in 18 months? I think this part of the game needs improvement and not just postponed. When I look at new games if I seem any hint that the gameplay in certain areas suffers from things like this I would pass the game by. I like EVE and just dont like part of it I have enjoyed for yrs become unplayable and thats my beef.


Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.31 16:56:00 - [275]
 

Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
What a lot of "Empire Dwellers" fail to realize is that what happens in 0,0 does in fact directly effect empire.

A majority of moon minerals which are used to build your marauders and hulks come from 0,0.

Almost all pirate faction mods which are used by a lot of empire dwellers come from 0,0.


And none of that **** comes from fleet warfare. Your Just ****ed because you think CCP doesn't listen to 0.0 dwellers. I am glad they don't listen to ANY trolls. For example there is a 20 some page thread about nerfing the drake. Plead your case using logic next time.


You want to know what EVE will be like without the activity that comes from 0.0? Go play on Serenity for a week. Hulks are 500m, HACs are more and caps are very, very rare. You know absolutely nothing about the game, bar the missions you run.


Learn to read troll. I never said anything about EvE not having 0.0 activity. You even quoted me and still drew a non sequitur conclusion.


Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2010.07.31 17:05:00 - [276]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones

Learn to read troll.



Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.31 17:13:00 - [277]
 

Edited by: Cipher Jones on 31/07/2010 17:15:31
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Cipher Jones

Learn to read troll.



Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Reading comprehension =/= agreeing with an opinion.

As a matter of fact the source for this thread turned out to be a hoax yet still 10 pages. I guess I am a troll for even replying, just like everyone else here.


Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.07.31 18:41:00 - [278]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: tmasher
Originally by: Kylod
I just hope that the features bring in enough new subscribers so that CCP can then allocate the extra revenue to fix the problem. Kinda a chicken and egg scenerio.


It won't. CCP will most likely continue on the downward spiral to seduce more and more new players at an increasing rate because there's more money in it for them. The number of new players they can bring in by flashing shiny new things to gamers outweighs the number of old players they'd maintain by actually addressing the now-uncountable number of problems plaguing every single aspect of this game. For every disgruntled vet that quits Eve there are 10 new people signing up.

This new report by a more-or-less popular external 3rd party is a step in the right direction. You want to force CCP to address these issues? Start scaring potential new players off by giving Eve the bad press it deserves.
So much anger out of so few players. We all realize that fleet fights suck arse but really what does that have to do with the vast majority of players who never see any lag whatsoever in their daily routines?


Are you really this ignorant, or are you just playing devil's advocate here? Most people who've been playing more than a couple of months have at least an inkling of how the hi-sec and 0.0 economies affect each other.

Just to give you the most obvious example: where do you think the low end minerals to build all those capitals and supercaps comes from? What effect on a humble hi-sec miner do you think lag making fleet combat impractical has had?
You act like nullsec corps are the only ones that use caps and supercaps. My humble litle fw corp I am currently in has a few titans, several dozen sc with scores of carriers and dreads and goes out regularly to kill other caps and supercaps. We are not the only small corp in fw to have these things and moar and moar are getting them every day.

So no, laggy unplayable nullsec fleet fights have little impact on eve in general as all the other stuff in nullsec works just fine like production pos and ratting or exploring or all the other stuff that makes the economy tick. Hell it can be argued that fw has taken over the top position for daily ship destuction long before dominion came out so again not being able to have blobby fleet fights has not been an issue on profitability or market strength.

It might also be said that with the overall peace in nullsec due to not being able to easily take someones territory that production is at an all time high with no breaks due to a moon changing hands along with the need to feed all those ships to the low sec corps that are using and moar importantly losing them daily.

Saying all that I still sympathise with the guys whose fun has been quashed due to unplayable fleet fights and hope ccp fixes it soon. But to say that not being able to have blobby fleet fights is killing or even negativly effecting eve in a major way is simply political spin to get ccp to somehow fix lag sooner. So whats the score on that tactic now if measured in threads? 1,370,374,296 attempts with 0 success? lol. Time for a new tactic guys as this one is just not working at all..

Alphabits
Posted - 2010.07.31 20:51:00 - [279]
 

well apple had antenna-gate, now ccp has evegate. oh wait, somethings not right..

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.07.31 21:09:00 - [280]
 

Originally by: Zeba
guff


Right, because FW burns through ships at anything remotely like the same rate as 0.0 sov war? Rolling Eyes

Saying that what happens in 0.0 does not affect hi-sec is just as ignorant and dishonest as saying that 0.0 isn't affected by hi-sec.

But whatever. Why argue? If CCP carry on like they have been we'll find out definitely one way or the other, right? Why waste energy speculating.

Ham2000
Posted - 2010.07.31 22:51:00 - [281]
 

Edited by: Ham2000 on 31/07/2010 22:58:04
Edited by: Ham2000 on 31/07/2010 22:55:04
Ok, so where do hi-sec mission runners get their faction mods from? I mean except for the empire ones from LP store?
Thats right, they come from 0.0, what about the faction ships, like the nightmare, yep thats 0.0 as well. Ok what about minerals, oh yeah the expensive ones come from 0.0. Hang on I'm seeing a pattern here..........

If there is too much lag to run large fleets, 0.0 becomes less secure, meaning less plexing etc as roaming gangs become more the norm.
Tho this doesnt really matter, since lag is that great in some places that even empty systems are a challenge to rat in, far less plex in. It all has a knock on effect, watch as prices for mods go up as 0.0 chars unsub, the same chars that mainly get the materials from WH space to make your shiny T3 ships.

Basically eve is interconnected, saying that 'its only 12%' of the player base doesnt really do it justice.
Also better to stop lag creeping in now, because if they dont fix it now, do you expect them to fix it when it enters hi-sec?


Edit: Also note that most T2 materials come from 0.0, yes some also come from low-sec, but most from 0.0 towers. Think what the impact is going to be on the whole market of eve.

Edit2: Infact if the lag is bad enough, supplies of t2 materials may be disrupted, could someone see if an increase in price of t2 materials has occurred over the last few weeks?

theSONARnet
Gallente
IT Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.31 23:26:00 - [282]
 

lol High-Sec Carebears think that this isn't their problem.

When I started Eve 2008, I was like most of you a mission runner too, but got bored of it after a couple of months and moved on.
I don't blame anyone who still loves it but then ask yourself what have changed in the meantime?
Sleepers and the Epic Arcs (which is basically an average mission in it's core, so lets forget that)
We were told that if the Sleepers thingy works then their AI will be moved to High Sec Missions. Now 1 year later, ... it didn't happen and it wont happen for the next 18 months.

Ask yourself where is the new content for you?

We're playing Eve because it's a spaceship game and not a FPS game like Dust, or a SciFi 2nd Life like Incarna (tbh, the only time I wanted something like that was when I was stuck in the station for some war-like reason, but the game world of Eve is still outside of the station and not in it). So why should CCP spend most of their development resources on something that isn't part of the main game while they could use that time and effort to put some love to the things we call Eve?

Best way could be to make an expansion that gives us something new but easy to make for CCP, like T3 Frigs. <- So Hellmar has something new and shiny for his marketing ppl
... and use most of the developers to fix old content.


Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.08.01 06:45:00 - [283]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Zeba
guff


Right, because FW burns through ships at anything remotely like the same rate as 0.0 sov war? Rolling Eyes

Saying that what happens in 0.0 does not affect hi-sec is just as ignorant and dishonest as saying that 0.0 isn't affected by hi-sec.

But whatever. Why argue? If CCP carry on like they have been we'll find out definitely one way or the other, right? Why waste energy speculating.
Fw burns through far more hulls than nullsec on any given day even before teh dominion lag fest lulz. Granted nullsec might get the top spot for part of a day when a few hundred caps go up in smoke during a fight but thats just a tiny blip compared to the daily destruction of fw. C'mon Malcanis I know you are a nullsec player and all but I also thought you had some common market sense too. Sad

Nullsec gets all the press because they have the big huge fights every once in a while but fw trumps nullsec on daily carnage and always has. Don't believe me? Then just start looking at the four fw killboards and then also look at the map on a daily basis. Notice all those huge blobs of kills in low sec compared to the few and far between blips in nullsec? Fw gets faaaaaar more average kills per day than nullsec could ever hope to achieve. Also fw drives the economy far better than nullsec due to the vast difference in ships and mods used whilst nullsec tends to be only bs and cap ships for the major fights. I would also wager that fw has a higher percentage of daily active players too. Diversity ftw.

Also to comment on the last part of your post if every single nullsec alliance quit tommorow in protest it would actually be less than the amount of botters ccp booted during holy rage. And thats figuring in that every member of every alliance quit instead of the moar likely outcome of the top few annoyed alliance leaders quiting whilst the thousands of cannon fodder members simply went on to something else in the game like they already do 95% of the time between ops. Tbh mate I think you might be a bit too close to the 'problem' to see it clearly for what it really is.

Sebesto
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.08.01 06:51:00 - [284]
 

'CCP has invested significant time and resources throughout EVE's history on increasing the performance of fleet fights. We've always had a team of developers devoted to improving our technology and in recent years we made exponential headway through massive server upgrades and initiatives like "Stackless IO". Quoted from http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=257782

If you have a team that is dedicated to making lag go away, then it is time to fire that team and get a new team. Server upgrades won't always fix the lag, check the code.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.08.01 06:58:00 - [285]
 

Originally by: Sebesto
'CCP has invested significant time and resources throughout EVE's history on increasing the performance of fleet fights. We've always had a team of developers devoted to improving our technology and in recent years we made exponential headway through massive server upgrades and initiatives like "Stackless IO". Quoted from http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=257782

If you have a team that is dedicated to making lag go away, then it is time to fire that team and get a new team. Server upgrades won't always fix the lag, check the code.
*glances at the sov map and notices that pretty much every system worth taking has already been taken with attendant outpost and cynojammer in place with the relevant improvements all at max or nearly max level*

I would wager several hundred billions that the 'lag fix' is imminent. Maybe even the next patch. ugh


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