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blankseplocked The implant problem/exodus agent design flaw
 
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pngzor
Kidneythieves
Posted - 2004.12.19 21:52:00 - [1]
 

Before exoshiva, the implant prices were from 5M (+3 perc) to around 25-30M (+3 int/mem). These prices fluctated a little, but the supply was steady, and it didn't cost you an arm and a leg when you got podded. At this time, missions were worth it.

With the introduction of loyalty points (LP) and storyline missions, this changed a lot.

Now you have to grind and work, and collect around 70k LP (number taken from the excellent offer site) to even get the implant offer. This roughly translates to 70M isk. But this 70M base price isn't enough. You also have to gather one type of named tradegoods (which ofc only drops from OTHER agent offers) and a couple of regular tradegoods. Not only is this a huge timesink and a logistic nightmare (travelling around sourcing items, searching for ppl who actually got the named goods) but you also lose out on the cool agent offers, like faction ships and mods. Which means the new implant price is somewhere around 100M per.

So if I get podded, it'll be around 500M, or 3-4 weeks of agent grinding and working to refit my implants. Compared to the income from other parts of the game, or the potential income from a faction BS bpc, this means there won't be any more implants in game, except those extremely rare ones that drop from killed mission ships.

Devs, I've got a simple question for you:

Why?

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2004.12.19 23:28:00 - [2]
 

They drink a lot.

Ratzap
Gallente
InterGalactic Corp.
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2004.12.19 23:29:00 - [3]
 

Maybe with advanced learning in, they just decided implants had to go?

Ratzap

Weston McArthur
Black Reign
FATAL Alliance
Posted - 2004.12.19 23:36:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
They drink a lot.


And some of that Chinese Gold.YARRRR!!

JoeSomebody
No Trademark
Notoriety Alliance
Posted - 2004.12.19 23:37:00 - [5]
 

actually +3 perception implants were 2-3 mil on NPC market, and mem/int were about 18-20 mil.

pngzor
Kidneythieves
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:41:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Ratzap
Maybe with advanced learning in, they just decided implants had to go?


That might be it.. but implants are still in the loot/agent tables though?

Syme
Gallente
Umbra Scientia Muneris
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:47:00 - [7]
 

You can still get +3 implants from normal agent missions, got one 2 days ago and it was not from an offer or important mission (which just tell me they are busy all the timeSad)

drunkenmaster
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.12.20 20:36:00 - [8]
 

when will people realise that implants are a luxury, not a right.

Much like faction and named pirate loot.

If you can afford it, you can have it, but it's certainly not a right.

I agree, it's a bit of a pain that they don't drop as often, but important missions are being worked on, and hopefully, they will be more abundant in the future.

Have some patience.

Or spend some money.

The Mariachi
Tijuana Technologies
Posted - 2004.12.20 22:50:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: The Mariachi on 20/12/2004 22:51:39
i bet you those ppl that speculated on implants and stockpiled them before Exodus are rubbing their hands now...

But i agree - implants are not a must-have item. They're "nice to have". And if you're really into PvP, you probably don't fit implants anyway. The advanced learning skills already do a lot for you as a char, and once you get your attributes up to a good level, a +3 implant doesn't do THAT much difference tbh. 100 mil for an implant does hurt the majority of players, thats for sure, but if you want luxury, you gotta be prepared to pay the price for it. And there's always +1 and +2 implants.

Mar

Konshu
Posted - 2004.12.22 05:15:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Konshu on 22/12/2004 05:19:15
Had an offer for a +3 Charisma implant for only 10,000 LP's. The problem is that it also required a bunch of amarrian wheat and some high-tech transmitters. Not gonna find that stuff anywhere, except as offers from other agents. ugh

What good are offers if you have virtually no chance of completing them? Sad

CCP Zrakor

Posted - 2004.12.22 09:57:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Zrakor on 22/12/2004 10:02:54
Implants still drop from important missions. The intention was never to take that mission out. The reason the +3 implants weren't dropping at release is due to a bug (that should be fixed now).

Also, the +3 implant offers cost 10.000 LP's. They were at 70k at release, but were lowered to 10k soon after.

Daolin
Minmatar
Posted - 2004.12.22 10:22:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Zrakor
Edited by: Zrakor on 22/12/2004 10:02:54
Implants still drop from important missions. The intention was never to take that mission out. The reason the +3 implants weren't dropping at release is due to a bug (that should be fixed now).


It isn't, at least not for me. What has been fixed is that level 3 agents now send you to level 3 storyline agents, but all the storyline missions seem to be broken. All the important missions I had since the last patch were Mercenary Assassinations, and one A Case Of Kidnapping, all with crap rewards. I have run several hundred missions since Shiva launch, and I have yet to see one single real storyline mission. Papa Smurf promised us lots of new content for storyline agents, where is that content?

Originally by: "Papa Smurf"
These important/storyline missions will be receiving much more luv and attention than other missions from our content team and thus should be rather fun, generally involving dungeons, multiple phases, interesting blurb and rewards to make them worthwhile.

CCP Zrakor

Posted - 2004.12.22 10:55:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Daolin
Originally by: Zrakor
Edited by: Zrakor on 22/12/2004 10:02:54
Implants still drop from important missions. The intention was never to take that mission out. The reason the +3 implants weren't dropping at release is due to a bug (that should be fixed now).


It isn't, at least not for me. What has been fixed is that level 3 agents now send you to level 3 storyline agents, but all the storyline missions seem to be broken. All the important missions I had since the last patch were Mercenary Assassinations, and one A Case Of Kidnapping, all with crap rewards. I have run several hundred missions since Shiva launch, and I have yet to see one single real storyline mission. Papa Smurf promised us lots of new content for storyline agents, where is that content?

Originally by: "Papa Smurf"
These important/storyline missions will be receiving much more luv and attention than other missions from our content team and thus should be rather fun, generally involving dungeons, multiple phases, interesting blurb and rewards to make them worthwhile.



There was a decision made a few months ago to freeze the storyline mission content in favor of offers and porting over old missions into the deadspace system. After exodus release a heap load of issues surfaced which had to be dealt with, resulting in further delays on that. There are currently about 15 storyline sequences waiting for certain features to be implemented before being put into the game, quite frankly the work load is the only thing preventing them from making it in. I hope to see them in the game in february or march period.

Daolin
Minmatar
Posted - 2004.12.22 11:12:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Zrakor
There was a decision made a few months ago to freeze the storyline mission content in favor of offers and porting over old missions into the deadspace system. After exodus release a heap load of issues surfaced which had to be dealt with, resulting in further delays on that. There are currently about 15 storyline sequences waiting for certain features to be implemented before being put into the game, quite frankly the work load is the only thing preventing them from making it in. I hope to see them in the game in february or march period.


Okay, that answers that, thanks.

I'm willing to wait for the new storyline missions, but in the meantime, could you at least bring all the old important missions back? Only getting Mercenary Assassinations is boring, and besides, that mission doesn't give implant rewards ugh

And although 10.000 LP is an appropriate amount for +3 implants, with the current system of dishing out loyality offers I'd have to get one agent to exactly 10k LP and then not touch it for a week or two, because when I get too far above these 10k I won't get that particular offer anymore. IMHO offers should be more frequent but selected from a wider range of LP, so that someone with 70k LP has a chance on a +3 implant offer too.

Taipan Stark
Posted - 2004.12.22 11:14:00 - [15]
 

I have had the same experience. I am a new player and love agent missions, that is, if they are well written. After the tutorial I did the storyline mission of 8 steps (Ares) and got a lousy +1 Charisma implant for my trouble, which I sold for 400k. At the end the agent mentioned another agent I should go see in Kakakela, but I closed that dialog window too fast and now can't find the Kakakela agent he mentioned. If that info was important it should have gone via evemail or the journal. After that I got 3 other storyline missions offered (once every 3 days on average), ALL useless mercenary missions. Why useless? Because they send me 10-15 jumps away to kill 3-4 really easy rats (most my level 2 kill missions are much harder), PLUS the storyline agents work for random corporations that do not matter to me...so then I get a huge standing boost with those corps but not with the one I am actually trying to unlock level 3 agents for... (caldari navy in my case).

The storyline concept was promising...IF the missions actually had any roleplay value (the mercenary ones don't) and you were actually sent from one storyline agent to another. I did nearly 100 regualr missions for two regular level 2 agents and they never referred me to a "real" storyline agent like the initial one who offered the Ares Operation mission.

0seeker0
Gallente
Posted - 2004.12.22 11:43:00 - [16]
 

I hope the storyline missions are fun!

san.

Cookie
Snakeoil Industries Ltd.
Posted - 2004.12.22 12:37:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Cookie on 22/12/2004 12:38:01
hrmpf, by the numbers of missions i've done since the start of exodus, i should have received a good load of implants compared to the droprate pre-exodus.

Storyline Missions seem to be bugged for me, cause i didnt't get one since i petitioned the bugged ones i got short after launch.

And on a total unrelated note .. why does one of my agents spam me with Toxic Waste (contraband) and Station Containers ?


EDIT: what are those important missions tho ? never got one of those



Icarus Starkiller
Forge Regional Security
Posted - 2005.01.01 16:49:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: pngzor
Now you have to grind and work, and collect around 70k LP (number taken from the excellent offer site)


Excellent Offer site?

Please give us some linkage on this one... As it stands now I take every offer I get from agents I no longer use just to shut them the heck up. If I know which missions require what... well, then I might save them...

Quote:
Which means the new implant price is somewhere around 100M per.


IMO I think they should start offering insurance on some of these insanely priced trade items.
Implants, T2 Strip Miners (with a *base* cost of 25 mil - that's a frikkin battlecruiser!!!), things like this are just to frikkin expensive to just deedle on out and buy once your ship gets blasted or gods forbid you also get podded.

Heck, if I was flying around in my large mining bardge kitted out with these T2 strippers, crystals, and a headful of +3 implants and some snot blasted me... I'd be out so much ISK it would not even be worth coming back. Heck, why buy a clone when you can't replace your ship & kit within the next six months? Just trash the account and start over... or, heck, go to WoW or EQ2.

Quote:

So if I get podded, it'll be around 500M, or 3-4 weeks of agent grinding and working to refit my implants.

Devs, I've got a simple question for you:

Why?

Icarus Starkiller
Forge Regional Security
Posted - 2005.01.01 16:53:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Daolin
IMHO offers should be more frequent but selected from a wider range of LP, so that someone with 70k LP has a chance on a +3 implant offer too.


I'll second this notion.

IMO, agents should give any/all offer types within, say, 25% of your current LP cap.
So you have 70k LP, your agent should be making you offers anywhere from 57k up to your cap (favoring higher offers to lower, but only slightly so).

Spunk Meyer
Posted - 2005.01.01 17:38:00 - [20]
 

well for these high-tech items, does this mean theres no place to buy them. i have to hope another agent offers them to me? thats thedumbest thing iheard of. or just troll the modules channel begging for high tech manufacturing tools. have 2 implant offers from 2 diff agents. guess i can tell them to stuff it

pngzor
Kidneythieves
Posted - 2005.01.01 20:20:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Icarus Starkiller

Excellent Offer site?

Please give us some linkage on this one...



Offer site and thread about it. Props to Hido.

Skarsnik
Caldari
DarkArch Corp
Posted - 2005.01.01 21:15:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: pngzor

With the introduction of loyalty points (LP) and storyline missions, this changed a lot.

Now you have to grind and work, and collect around 70k LP (number taken from the excellent offer site) to even get the implant offer.


Think these figure aren't too accurate - I have an implant offer atm for 10000 LP just thought I'd add that in.

Quanova
Sensus Numinis
Phoenix Allianz
Posted - 2005.01.01 21:53:00 - [23]
 

In my experience the special trade goods, like Ukomi Super Conductors, Amarrian Wheat etc. are offered way too rarely. Instead, agent are making offers requiring those special goods or -most often- asking for drugs. How are we supposed to make use of agent offers when the required goods are hardly ever offered?
(Buying them from other players isn't an option neither, as they are practically non-existant and -if ever offered- insanely priced, e.g. 100k isk for 1 -in words: one- Amarrian Wheat.)

I've got quite a number of agents with LPs ranging from a dozen to several ten thousands. They just don't offer special goods. What I'd like to see are offers in the thousand or ten thousand range that actually provide those special goods. I wouldn't hesitate a second to spend 50.000 LPs for an appropriate amount of special goods. Because most other offers around those LP range are useless unless I get my hands on those goods.

Dark Solaris
Posted - 2005.01.07 09:35:00 - [24]
 

I've done 3 or more important missions before (both faction standing bonus mission and storyline missions) but didn't see any implant on loot yet. Maybe I get bad luck but it is still assured by hearing that we can get that implant from loot.

Nemiona
Minmatar
The Phoenix Legion
Posted - 2005.01.07 09:42:00 - [25]
 

I got a +2 int implant as loot from a mission rat, and one of my agent offered me a +3 charisma implant for 16000 lp.


Ky Vatta
Majority 12
Posted - 2005.01.08 15:02:00 - [26]
 

Put simply, the Loyalty bonus system is badly thought out...and the rewards are mostly useless garbage....

Tisti
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.01.08 16:09:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Tisti on 08/01/2005 16:08:53
Implants need to come back as agent mission rewards not as offers...

Caesium
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2005.01.08 21:44:00 - [28]
 

or at least have some other method of aquireing the high tech stuff.. like put em on npc convoys or something.

Dezra
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2005.01.08 21:59:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: drunkenmaster
when will people realise that implants are a luxury, not a right.

Much like faction and named pirate loot.

If you can afford it, you can have it, but it's certainly not a right.

I agree, it's a bit of a pain that they don't drop as often, but important missions are being worked on, and hopefully, they will be more abundant in the future.

Have some patience.

Or spend some money.


That is pretty silly considering ccp where the ones getting ppl used to having affordable implants. 5 mill for a + 3 perception is perhaps in the cheap end, but thats because the market was flooded with them. Implants are a right in my book and shouldnt cost 150 mill as they do now. Ive been playing 1,5 years now and i didnt know **** about setting my character up back then. My character has mainly focused on pvp skills in which my primary and secondary attributes suck, i need implants to up those attributes. I made a wrong choice then and the only way i can even that out is with implants.

MinorFreak
Amarr
Ordo Ministorum
Posted - 2005.01.15 02:19:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Ky Vatta
Put simply, the Loyalty bonus system is badly thought out...and the rewards are mostly useless garbage....
if it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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