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Monistat Seven
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.22 18:27:00 - [1]
 

Yeah yeah I know, this is a dead horse subject talked about in the boards over and over... but I'll add this...

There are ship crews as stated in fiction that is true, but it is not reflected in any way shape or form (except for a few mission rescues) that crews are indicated.

There are no ship crews in the game.
1) There are no escape pods. (would be so cool)
2) There are no icons to load into the ship. There are icons to put in cargo bay, but they would be non-actionable cargo.
3) There is no actionable crew that can be loaded to effect ships attributes.
4) There is no upkeep or payment of crews.
5) There are no sexual harassment issues to deal with.

So unless CCP makes these concepts representative and actionable, I'm just a capsuleer running the universes most advanced robotic extension of my physical and conscious being.

That being said, I would like to have all the above I don't have, and there really needs to be implemented a passenger transport concept that would use specialized bays that are now being used for other ships.

Fiction is fiction... the game is real. (grin)

Phosphorus Palladium
Posted - 2010.07.22 18:32:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Phosphorus Palladium on 22/07/2010 18:38:10

Pic - BP Dominix with crew data. (One of a few released by CCP back long ago..)

Monistat Seven
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.22 18:35:00 - [3]
 

Thanks I've seen that. I thought there was also some metric in the database that mentions passenger capability too, but can't remember where.

Still... not actionable.

Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
Posted - 2010.07.22 18:42:00 - [4]
 

This is a pic I snapped a long time ago. It's from a Dragonfly (fighter). It at least proves we're not the only ones in our ships.


Hari Markkus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.22 18:50:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Hari Markkus on 22/07/2010 18:50:16
I don't pay any coal bill to run my space ships engines.
I don't visit my accountant to decide how best to deal with my pile of gold.
I don't see the people who wash the windscreen on my spaceship when I am stopped at the traffic lights.
I don't see the traffic lights.

Just cause it has not been implemented in game does not mean that it don't happen.

achoura
Posted - 2010.07.22 18:59:00 - [6]
 

If the op had done the absolute most basic research before posting they'd know the difference between a capsuler and a crew member Laughing

Zeredek
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.07.22 19:14:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Monistat Seven
So unless CCP makes these concepts representative and actionable, I'm just a spaceship with a mind of it's own.

Fix'd.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.22 19:19:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: achoura
If the op had done the absolute most basic research before posting they'd know the difference between a capsuler and a crew member Laughing


But would he have the pic that you were unable to provide?

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.22 19:19:00 - [9]
 

Lore = what makes this game

Lore says we have crews

Lore defeats idiots who don't read it Confused

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.22 19:32:00 - [10]
 

While background info may say we have crew, most indications in game disprove that idea.

If you bring a packaged POS into a wormhole, does crew magically appear to board it once you launch it? From where? If you built ships inside a wormhole with that same POS, does trained crew magically appear by the thousands to board your ships? What possible RP explanation could be conceived for crew appearing inside wormholes to crew the ships build there?

Do crews happily board a ship of a capsuleer engaging in insurance fraud?

Is Concord happy to kill thousands of crew for a silly mistake by a capsuleer? Concords willfull destruction of tens of thousands of ships for things like targeting mistakes makes all the Sansha invasions pale by comparison.

For all intents and purposes, the game behaves as if there wasn't any crew inside the ships. If CCP states capsuleer ships, even battleships, only need a handful of crew, it would certainly be more believable.

Zeredek
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.07.22 19:37:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Zeredek on 22/07/2010 19:39:53
Originally by: Merdaneth
While background info may say we have crew, most indications in game disprove that idea.

If you bring a packaged POS into a wormhole, does crew magically appear to board it once you launch it? From where? If you built ships inside a wormhole with that same POS, does trained crew magically appear by the thousands to board your ships? What possible RP explanation could be conceived for crew appearing inside wormholes to crew the ships build there?
The "POS" unit in your cargo hold is not only the POS itself, but the inhabitants as well. And the same with building ships, crewmembers are recruited from the inhabitants of the POS.

Do crews happily board a ship of a capsuleer engaging in insurance fraud?
Yes, since life sucks anyways.

Is Concord happy to kill thousands of crew for a silly mistake by a capsuleer? Concords willfull destruction of tens of thousands of ships for things like targeting mistakes makes all the Sansha invasions pale by comparison.
It's in the fineprint

For all intents and purposes, the game behaves as if there wasn't any crew inside the ships. If CCP states capsuleer ships, even battleships, only need a handful of crew, it would certainly be more believable.

I recommend reading this.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.22 19:45:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Zeredek

I recommend reading this.


I have already read this. It jars my suspension of disbelief. I cannot get 6000 people into my Bestower, but they hapiily sit inside a packaged battleship waiting for me to unpack it? In some kind of suspended animation?

A POS has twenty thousand crew (for the POS itself, plus for all the ships that are going to be built with it), but I can package it and can easily fit it into my Bestower?

A couple of m3 of food, water and clothing costs isk, but once I build my ships or POS myself, it automatically includes a life supply of such stuff? Or does the POS crew open wormholes back to secure space when I'm not looking and secretly import food and other things with the isk I'm never paying them?

The game mechanics don't support thousands of crew on a battleship. It is easier to believe that there aren't those numbers on a battleship than there are. For me at least.

I also wouldn't believe Amarr ships are green with pink even if the fiction said they were in 10 different articles.

Zeredek
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.07.22 19:51:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Zeredek

I recommend reading this.


I have already read this. It jars my suspension of disbelief. I cannot get 6000 people into my Bestower, but they hapiily sit inside a packaged battleship waiting for me to unpack it? In some kind of suspended animation?
They board it when you do, k?

A POS has twenty thousand crew (for the POS itself, plus for all the ships that are going to be built with it), but I can package it and can easily fit it into my Bestower?
I can't really answer this one as I'm not very good at ship sizes.

A couple of m3 of food, water and clothing costs isk, but once I build my ships or POS myself, it automatically includes a life supply of such stuff? Or does the POS crew open wormholes back to secure space when I'm not looking and secretly import food and other things with the isk I'm never paying them?
They grow it themselves, and no you can't have some.

The game mechanics don't support thousands of crew on a battleship. It is easier to believe that there aren't those numbers on a battleship than there are. For me at least.
Game mechanics don't support this game being in space either.

I also wouldn't believe Amarr ships are green with pink even if the fiction said they were in 10 different articles.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.22 20:09:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Zeredek

I recommend reading this.


I have already read this. It jars my suspension of disbelief. I cannot get 6000 people into my Bestower, but they hapiily sit inside a packaged battleship waiting for me to unpack it? In some kind of suspended animation?

A POS has twenty thousand crew (for the POS itself, plus for all the ships that are going to be built with it), but I can package it and can easily fit it into my Bestower?

A couple of m3 of food, water and clothing costs isk, but once I build my ships or POS myself, it automatically includes a life supply of such stuff? Or does the POS crew open wormholes back to secure space when I'm not looking and secretly import food and other things with the isk I'm never paying them?

The game mechanics don't support thousands of crew on a battleship. It is easier to believe that there aren't those numbers on a battleship than there are. For me at least.

I also wouldn't believe Amarr ships are green with pink even if the fiction said they were in 10 different articles.

Holy ****, time bandits. now I know who did 911.

Monistat Seven
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.22 21:09:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Monistat Seven on 22/07/2010 21:11:45
I can see the logic. I also understand the "have faith, they are there". However what if there was a system something like the following...

Spaceship Command (1x) effects crew quality as below:
Level 1 = Scab Crew (each level adds a small bonus)
Level 2 = Basic Crew
Level 3 = Motivated Crew
Level 4 = Ringer Crew
Level 5 = Elite Crew

If a Dominix has 6200 crew, then divide by crew units of 10 so a Dominix would have 62 units. Each ship class would have a default rating.

Ship Crew units by class, but each level in class could have different plus/minus to these levels:

Rookie Ship, shuttle = no crew units
Frigate = 2 crew unit
Destroyer = 4 crew units
Cruiser = 10 crew units
Battlecruiser = 30 crew units
Battleship = 60 crew units

Now, crew quality above is added to the crew population on the ship as divided by some formula below (for example):
No crew = 0 to 19% units
Quarter Crew 20% to 44% units
Half Crew 45% to 69% units
Third Crew 70% to 89% units
Full Crew 90% to 100% units of full ship requirements

Full crew would provide the highest bonus to the ship and no crew would provide no actionable bonus (like right now).

Here is the rub... the more units of crew you buy, you are charged a monthly fee like renting a station that comes out of your wallet. Thus, if you want to keep your elite crew with you from ship to ship, you have to ferry them about in the crew compartments, and the extras in the passenger compartments (or cargo). Or, you can just keep your posse of crew in all stations all over the galaxy, but you still have to pay salaries of those sitting on their butts.

It would sort of be cool to have an "Abandon ship" animation where pods start ejecting during structural damage. Later some of your crew auto-magically returns to your designated crew home location (like your medical clone) reducing your costs for buying (errr... recruiting) new crew.

Just malformed drunken stupor ideas, but hey.

Ryhss
Caldari
The Excecutorans
Posted - 2010.07.22 21:24:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Lykouleon
Lore = what makes this game

Lore says we have crews

Lore defeats idiots who don't read it Confused
This!

Johnny Dexter
Posted - 2010.07.22 21:48:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Johnny Dexter on 22/07/2010 21:49:38
Originally by: Ryhss
Originally by: Lykouleon
Lore = what makes this game

Lore says we have crews

Lore defeats idiots who don't read it Confused
This!
This deserves to get quoted one more time.

You can play your own special version of EVE in your imaginary mind by only cherry picking features that please your royal highness, but don't be a stubborn jackass on the forums when you're wrong.

Monistat Seven
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.22 21:57:00 - [18]
 

Nothing to do about wrong or right, or any high school popularity contest sheeesh...

CCP has stated, they would like to be a Science Fiction Simulator. So much so, they are heading into Incarna to make that a reality. The missiles fire (and they said they are working on launch animations), ships explode, mining beams glitter in the dark, trade orders do have accounting skills, and fire belches from the sides of hulks. This is the beauty of our important internet spaceship simulator game.

Yet... the fiction is out of phase with the game or the game is out of phase with the lore, which is a bore, when it comes to ships crews.

Pick one, fix one, choose wisely.

Graelyn
Amarr
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2010.07.23 00:27:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Johnny Dexter
You can play your own special version of EVE in your imaginary mind by only cherry picking features that please your royal highness, but don't be a stubborn jackass on the forums when you're wrong.


Good Lord, That!

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2010.07.23 00:48:00 - [20]
 

Crews - if they were implemented, they would be a great "cost-reward-consequence" mechanic that this game is so well sold on.


Imagine that the longer you keep a ship in operation, the more a well-oiled machine the crew becomes: experienced, salty, loyal.

Lose a lot of ships though, and you are constantly stuck with a green crew.

These things should be modifiers to the performance of the ship.

I know this might be bad for the PVP crowd, but they would be the first to admit that one who flies like crap must pay a price.


Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2010.07.23 01:04:00 - [21]
 

Ships don't have crew for the same reason that your character doesn't have to click the "eat food" button three times a day or starve to death: because adding game mechanics to represent that part of the background material would not add anything to the game*. It's a basic rule of game design: don't just add features for the sake of adding features**.




*Obviously you could come up with some kind of mechanic to include crew, but it would be a solution in need of a problem. The game works just fine as it is, do we really need "crew slots" that add the same bonus as high/mid/low/rig slots?


**Unfortunately the idiots in charge of CCP's long term planning do not understand this, so we're stuck with more broken and unwanted features instead of finishing and/or fixing the ones we already have.

Mintoko
Gallente
Taedium In Perpetuam
Posted - 2010.07.23 01:14:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Crews - if they were implemented, they would be a great "cost-reward-consequence" mechanic that this game is so well sold on.


Imagine that the longer you keep a ship in operation, the more a well-oiled machine the crew becomes: experienced, salty, loyal.

Lose a lot of ships though, and you are constantly stuck with a green crew.

These things should be modifiers to the performance of the ship.

I know this might be bad for the PVP crowd, but they would be the first to admit that one who flies like crap must pay a price.




This idea, although nice, would lead to crew farming ie. A ship is stocked with a crew and then kept in station for whatever time is required for maximum effect....unless of course, experience comes from actual use outside of the station.

Mulm
Minmatar
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.23 01:20:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Mulm on 23/07/2010 01:20:13
Tempest and Crew

Arkios Odymei
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.23 01:20:00 - [24]
 


Retsujin
Posted - 2010.07.23 03:10:00 - [25]
 

How about CCP just adds a few items that one can get through salvage? I'd love to see "Salvaging attempt is successful, you have found 1 "Shredded Torso" 2 "Mangled Leg" and 1 "Head with scrap metal in it".

Zeredek
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.07.23 04:18:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Retsujin
Head with scrap metal in it


Cute.

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.23 06:10:00 - [27]
 

Quote:
Fiction is fiction... the game is real.


Confirming that my Internet Spaceships are real!

Darkwolf
Caldari
TOG Empire
Combat Mining and Logistics
Posted - 2010.07.23 06:18:00 - [28]
 

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=28-06-10

This categorically states that;

a) Capsuleer-driven vessels have crew
b) Crewmembers have escape capsules
c) Crewmembers frequently don't make it to said escape capsules
d) Even a mild skirmish among capsuleers results in the deaths of thousands of people

As for how you pay them... I believe somewhere there's canon that states that ISK is worth a huge amount compared to planetary currency. This means you could pay your crew's wages out of the change you, as a Capsuleer, find in the back of your couch.

Penjual Sayur
Posted - 2010.07.23 06:39:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Monistat Seven

Spaceship Command (1x) effects crew quality as below:
Level 1 = Scab Crew (each level adds a small bonus)
Level 2 = Basic Crew
Level 3 = Motivated Crew
Level 4 = Ringer Crew
Level 5 = Elite Crew



Level 6 = drunken crews? we must have them. lol

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.23 07:03:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Darkwolf

As for how you pay them... I believe somewhere there's canon that states that ISK is worth a huge amount compared to planetary currency. This means you could pay your crew's wages out of the change you, as a Capsuleer, find in the back of your couch.



So, when as a capsuleer you buy a 1000 litres of water, you're actually paying 100 times as much as a regular citizen somehow? Same goes for most NPC trade goods. They are either unimaginably expensive, capsuleers somehow pay a lot more, or isk isn't worth as much as you like.

Except for CCP stories, there are very few indicators in-game to suggest crew exists. There are many more indicators that crew doesn't exist. To try an imagine crew requires one to come up with all kinds of odd reasoning like you do here, most of which, upon closer examination, fall apart.

I cannot believe that ISK is worth a lot compared to planetary currency, and simultanously believe the current price of NPC trade goods is realistic. Either the crew doesn't get paid, or the trade goods are priced wrong.


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