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blankseplocked Cyno Field creation should not = Suicide
 
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Bungle Bill
Posted - 2010.07.21 10:08:00 - [1]
 

At the moment, someone must volunteer for a very boring experience in a capital-including fight. Someone has to light the cyno field, thereby painting an enormous bullseye on their face with no real option to survive.

Cyno fields should be destructable, should be a target, should involve a penalty. They should not mean almost certain death for the absolutely required pilot's ship.

What if cyno fields were like probes? Distinct objects in space, "launched" from the generator module. They'd be targetable, reasonably tough (without being tougher, say, an assault frigate) and could only be launched every 10 minutes (5 for those ships currently with a cyno duration reduction bonus). Perhaps launching one could involve some other gimpage for the user - damage modifiers reduced by 50% or something - without just shouting "KILL ME, KILL ME NOW".

Thoughts?

Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.07.21 11:16:00 - [2]
 

You must be the only person in eve that can target probes in eve.

Its fine, really. I am one of the pilots that either jumps or opens cynos if you wanna know.

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.07.21 11:42:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Bungle Bill
At the moment, someone must volunteer for a very boring experience in a capital-including fight. Someone has to light the cyno field, thereby painting an enormous bullseye on their face with no real option to survive.

Cyno fields should be destructable, should be a target, should involve a penalty. They should not mean almost certain death for the absolutely required pilot's ship.

What if cyno fields were like probes? Distinct objects in space, "launched" from the generator module. They'd be targetable, reasonably tough (without being tougher, say, an assault frigate) and could only be launched every 10 minutes (5 for those ships currently with a cyno duration reduction bonus). Perhaps launching one could involve some other gimpage for the user - damage modifiers reduced by 50% or something - without just shouting "KILL ME, KILL ME NOW".

Thoughts?


how about ... make your buddies jump quickly enough to rep you before you die? (which then requires that you got enough raw HP to last until they locked you.)

killing the cyno is the only real chance of getting rid of it atm. you should not be risk free to light a cyno and drop a cap fleet into a system.

Bungle Bill
Posted - 2010.07.21 16:06:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Bungle Bill on 21/07/2010 16:10:43
Originally by: darius mclever
how about ... make your buddies jump quickly enough to rep you before you die? (which then requires that you got enough raw HP to last until they locked you.)

killing the cyno is the only real chance of getting rid of it atm. you should not be risk free to light a cyno and drop a cap fleet into a system.


1. And when you're jumping into a busy environment (hardly uncommon), how likely is it that your buddies will load (let alone lock) before you're dead?
2. I said the cyno should still be destructable.
3. No, it shouldn't be risk free, but it shouldn't be suicide either.

As for matey up there with the "you can't lock probes" poibnt - you're quite right, train of thought fail there. I meant like probes in that they'd exist in space, launched from a ship but distinct from them with an icon, overview entry etc. Much like a cyno field now, only the parent ship wouldn't be glued to it for the duration.

Quesa
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.21 16:09:00 - [5]
 

Lighting a cyno isn't suicide if you use proper ships and you have a proper gang. That being said, some things in this game increase your chances of dieing, lighting a beacon for hordes of capital ships to lock in on and jump to is one of those things.

PS. Stop lighting cyno's in Kestrels and try cyno-maulers or cyno-baddons.

Bungle Bill
Posted - 2010.07.21 16:18:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Quesa
PS. Stop lighting cyno's in Kestrels and try cyno-maulers or cyno-baddons.

Alright, you've got me on this one. Survive long enough in a nastier battlefield = spend more isk to do so.

Yep, fair point. I still think there are cases where the cyno-lighter simply cannot survive (and a necessary part of the game resulting in certain death is never a good thing), and that's bad, but it's the minority of scenarios, I admit.

Mercurial Blood
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.07.21 17:00:00 - [7]
 

TBH the mechanic of immobilizing your ship to keep the cyno open is fine. If the system is heavily guarded with people paying attention, then the cyno will be spotted quickly and you probably will be killed, if no one is paying attention then your friends will come in and be able to rep you no problem.

The bigger issue is how many ships can come through a single cyno. TBH I think it should be limited by mass just like wormholes. A normal cyno can take maybe 5-10 assorted caps, or 1-2 supercaps or something like that...

To bring in larger ships in wholesale the pilot would have to anchor a small device (which would maybe take about 1 minute) which shows up as a beacon. And has maybe 1-2K hitpoints while anchoring and about the same stats as a mobile small warp disruptor after being anchored. This way assaults would have to be planned. For moving carriers or a small assault a normal cyno would do, but for a 100man cap fleet it would require more logistics than just one tanked recon.

This way if you know the enemy is trying to bring in caps there are ways to reduce their abilities to bring them in. Although the enemy could still use 10 ships equipped with normal cynoes to do the same thing, but at least its more coordination required.

--
Merc

Alazontez Gallenteur
Gallente
Wolf-Monkey Bastards
WolfMonkey Bastards
Posted - 2010.07.21 18:37:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Mercurial Blood

To bring in larger ships in wholesale the pilot would have to anchor a small device (which would maybe take about 1 minute) which shows up as a beacon. And has maybe 1-2K hitpoints while anchoring and about the same stats as a mobile small warp disruptor after being anchored. This way assaults would have to be planned. For moving carriers or a small assault a normal cyno would do, but for a 100man cap fleet it would require more logistics than just one tanked recon.


Oh, I like what you did there. Bit of an addition to the suggestion. Give the anchored beacon a fuel bay and make it consume either based on ship size coming through (like a jump portal) or time based like oh so many other structures. That would make it require real logistics as opposed to making sure someone had a couple hundred m3 available in their cargohold.

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.07.21 19:44:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Bungle Bill

1. And when you're jumping into a busy environment (hardly uncommon), how likely is it that your buddies will load (let alone lock) before you're dead?
2. I said the cyno should still be destructable.
3. No, it shouldn't be risk free, but it shouldn't be suicide either.

As for matey up there with the "you can't lock probes" poibnt - you're quite right, train of thought fail there. I meant like probes in that they'd exist in space, launched from a ship but distinct from them with an icon, overview entry etc. Much like a cyno field now, only the parent ship wouldn't be glued to it for the duration.


As quesa said ... you cant expect to survive in paper thin frigates or haulers.
A heavily plated BS/BC or a well fitted heavy interdictor can survive long enough for your buddies to lock you before you are dead.

Ydyp Ieva
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2010.07.23 06:17:00 - [10]
 

The OP is right about cyno is mostly suicide job. Recons and covert ops don't have the most effective tanks, and last time I checked it were those ships that have the cyno bonus.

What we need are more ships dedicated to cynos. For this type I was thinking like the HICs, but instead of the bubble effect they get the cyno bonuses: reduced fuel and cycle time.

Spazdaro
Posted - 2010.07.25 20:30:00 - [11]
 

im not sure what type of cap fleet you are in but cynos are ment to die they are really just suposed to live long enough for some carriers to jump through so that one of those carriers can jump through and light a cyno of thier own, so that the rest of the fleet can come in and keep it alive if something came in and killed the first cyno

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2010.09.10 06:08:00 - [12]
 

Take a second to think about what the current cyno field does:
- Allows long range instant travel, bypassing gates/camps entirely.
- Allows unlimited and unscoutable reinforcement.

If any change should be made to cynos it should be for the worse, not better.
- Arrival should be a much wider area 30-50km radius to make pinpoint drops harder (also mitigates some bumpage in blob scenarios).
- Fuel cost should triple or quadruple so the Kestrel is laid off and Recons get a job other than hauling bomber crews around.
- Should be possible to jam cynos somehow, or displace them.
- Regular jumping in general should be much more fuel intensive, something like max range = 75% fuel bay reduced by skill with modifiers for system security to make low-sec much less cap friendly.

But good luck with trying to convince CCP to make cynos easier/better when they themselves are having second thoughts regarding travel time and such.

Mark Hadden
Amarr
Endstati0n
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.09.10 08:36:00 - [13]
 

cyno is not always certain death.. Its up to you and your buddies to keep the cyno alive, withing certain conditions of course - lighting a cyno in the middle of an enemy blob should lead to your cyno ship destruction.

Nuts Nougat
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2010.09.10 09:10:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Nuts Nougat on 10/09/2010 09:13:41
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Bungle Bill

1. And when you're jumping into a busy environment (hardly uncommon), how likely is it that your buddies will load (let alone lock) before you're dead?
2. I said the cyno should still be destructable.
3. No, it shouldn't be risk free, but it shouldn't be suicide either.

As for matey up there with the "you can't lock probes" poibnt - you're quite right, train of thought fail there. I meant like probes in that they'd exist in space, launched from a ship but distinct from them with an icon, overview entry etc. Much like a cyno field now, only the parent ship wouldn't be glued to it for the duration.


As quesa said ... you cant expect to survive in paper thin frigates or haulers.
A heavily plated BS/BC or a well fitted heavy interdictor can survive long enough for your buddies to lock you before you are dead.
This. I've lit up cynos in my broadsword in 1000+ locals. Survived just fine every single time. It goes pretty much like: "Hi there 300 people apoc fleet, say hi to my 95% em resist."

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2010.09.10 09:34:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Ydyp Ieva

What we need are more ships dedicated to cynos. For this type I was thinking like the HICs, but instead of the bubble effect they get the cyno bonuses: reduced fuel and cycle time.


You mean like force recons?

Originally by: Arazu

Role Bonus: 80% reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration.


 

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