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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:31:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: Bartillo Strongbradd
You can open your own bar and design it however you want from stripper to minigames to lighting.
You can open a clothing store and design and sell clothes.
You can cut hair.


Yes, but I'm neither pre-teen nor female. I couldn't care less.

Cheap Dude
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:32:00 - [242]
 

Hats off for the dev blog, really.. As a software developer myself I know how much a small team (even a single developer) can do and how little a big team Wink

I never had any issues with EVE other then fleet fights (aka lag). Being a player for 5 years says alot (me thinks).

The problem CCP is facing right now is the feeling of broken promisses. Myself I still remember the industrial expansion. CCP members talking about rethinking the whole system. Everyone at the office dumping their views and idea's on the devs desks. I was all exited.. but then it was released.. the whole industrial expansion, worked on for atleast 6 months, was nothing more then the Orca Crying or Very sad .. The Orca hull was already in the client so it felt if CCP decided to activate it for this expansion.. That was a broken promise from CCP made to me.

Other expansions, introducing new stuff, was always about implementing the basic and making it bigger, better with new expansions. But that never happens. Even little stuff like drone bandwith. The idea was to make dronebays larger so ships could bring different drones with them without buffing the ships. Well, the drone bandwith is here.. but dronebays never got bigger..

It feels CCP comes up with a great idea, gets the players exited and don't deliver. And when people complain about it, we are told that it's just the beginning of something big and great.

When I read the dev blog it feels as fuel on the fire of broken promisses Neutral


Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:37:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Virtuozzo
Originally by: CCP Explorer
I was feeling quite lonely in this thread. Very Happy


You are not alone in this thread. It may seem this way at first, but the absolute majority of people here are trying very hard to make clear points of why they care so much.

That shows that at the heart of it all, you, me, them, everybody cares. A great deal.


This game is a love affair. We have the ring but we keep getting jilted at the altar.

Look, I seriously LOVE this game. If I didn't, would I spend so many of my "leisure" hours devoted to trying to help make it better or playing it? At my age, those hours count for more than they ever did, so the fact I think EVE is still worth the time I spend on it is saying something.

I am looking forward to Incarna EVENTUALLY, but I do not want it in favor of other stuff that needs fixing more. And speaking of Incarna, since all those teams are devoted to it...what exactly are they doing? Because we saw nothing at the Summit that gives me confidence that Incarna is very far along in development. What stage is it at, exactly? Because of the various turns of discussion during the Incarna session, we didn't delve as deeply into development status questions as I now wish we had and any discussion we did have about it is not reflected in the Minutes.

This kind of information would be very appreciated by players who are wondering how "dug in" the Incarna teams are with respect to development. Knowing that might help put some perspective on irritation with Incarna being favored over issues and problems that pose immediate negative, often game-breaking effects on the game experience.


egegergergsdgedgege
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:39:00 - [244]
 

Well frist, thank you for the blog.

But I have to say I dont really like what I read there. Basically 70% of the development budget (that I pay) g to the development of a 3D chatroom?

Well ok, its your desicion, but my money wont go into it any longer as long as the rest of the game is in its current state.

Ege

Hussain
Gallente
Azure Horizon Federate Militia
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:40:00 - [245]
 

Blah, Blah, Blah

Someone is felling the need to clarify things, getting cold-feet.

First we have the rush of CCP people claiming they play and love the game and now this.

Maybe they thought we were are asleep.

Anyway faith in CCP is less than zero as most of the stuff there is not welcomed but a good part of the community.

iP0D
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:41:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: Virtuozzo
Originally by: CCP Explorer
I was feeling quite lonely in this thread. Very Happy


You are not alone in this thread. It may seem this way at first, but the absolute majority of people here are trying very hard to make clear points of why they care so much.

That shows that at the heart of it all, you, me, them, everybody cares. A great deal.


This game is a love affair. We have the ring but we keep getting jilted at the altar.



Seriously, if that is even a hint of the stuff that is going to happen in Incarna, oh hell yeah, it'll attract women. Seriously, CCP, please reconsider, or give us cloaks for in stations Shocked

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.07.16 22:41:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: Darth Vapour
Quote:
Memory usage on the server per user has decreased in the last 12 months
How much memory was added in that period compared to the growth in subscribers ? And if memory was added, was this done to all nodes, leading to lightly loaded nodes showing even less memory use per user?
Memory usage per user is normalised and independent of the memory available. TQ's available memory was doubled shortly after Dominion, each blade now has 32 GB and there are approx. 52 blades in the cluster.
Quote:
Quote:
CPU Per User on the server has remained constant for the last 6 months except for a short period in late January where it went up just a bit
Again, was there a hardware increase done here that was done system wide, meaning lightly loaded systems with no performance issues now use even less resourced per user ?
The last CPU upgrade we did was around Apocrypha.
Quote:
Quote:
Server log lines have been decreasing significantly since February, meaning fewer errors are being generated by the server
Does the Traffic Control message count as an error in these logs?
Not directly, they are not included but the underlying problem will generate log lines.

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:43:00 - [248]
 

Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
Edited by: Bartholomeus Crane on 16/07/2010 20:40:09
Originally by: ihcn
Making AI to help test fleet fights sounds like just about the most interesting thing ever. Things like that make me wish I was graduating sooner.


Knowing a bit about Artificial Intelligence I can almost assure you that that "borderline sentient AI-testing automation feature" will be neither borderline sentient nor have proper AI in it. As for automation feature for testing: welcome to the '90ies, glad you could make it.

If CCP wants to disagree, fine, prove me wrong. I'd be happy to have a look at it. Almost free of charge.
Remember what I said about hubris? There you have it, in bold text. That, IMHO, is the reason CCP is in such a mess: Wildly Over-promise in total belief of what you are saying, wildly under-deliver, and then, as is currently happening, wonder WTF everyone is so hopping mad when things go south.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:46:00 - [249]
 

Edited by: Apollo Gabriel on 16/07/2010 22:46:54
Hello CCP Zulu, Explorer, et al

I have many points, and realize it may be TL:DR,

Thank you
To CCP Zulu thank you for sharing your excitement about Eve here with us. It is clear that you intended your blog to state "We are not ignoring Eve, we are putting lots of time and effort into it!" and I did not think you blamed the CSM.

Customer Frustration & CSM
To those who complain about the minutes, please note that when you have an impression of an event and you then read/skim a document, you see what you saw, rather than what is present. It is clear that the CCP approval of the minutes did not intend to state "CCP isn't working on eve spaceships". I for one did not get the impression that Zulu was blaming CSM, but that he was confused by the interpretation of the minutes by the community at large.

Personal Frustration
As to my frustration with the CSM minutes, I personally considered quitting Eve again, after only resubscribing last month. After reading the Dev Blog, I do NOT plan to quit, I look forward to the Eve future. To be clear, the impression I got from the CSM minutes was "Fixing bugs doesn't get more players, so we are going to make new stuff and leave the bugs alone"

Thanks to CCP Explorer
It takes a very thick skin to read and reply to these forums, as many people fire off rage and anger, without looking back as what they said. These same people get angry at poor wording choices made by CCP employees, yet never examine their own. Let me say I admire your patience and courage to post here, thank you.

Looking Forward ...
I suckered about 7 people into playing Eve, all but 1 has quit now. I don't try anymore because there are just too many warts on eve. I feel that Incarna and Dust514 will drastically enhance the Eve universe. Will they make the fun parts of eve more fun? unlikely at this time, which is why I think the players are upset. Will the players enjoy them when they are added? I think they will, as CCP is truly breaking new ground here.

The Frustration Divide
To the CCP developers at large: There are many postings in the evelopedia that are mentioned as "bugs" will be fixed, etc. Many of them show their age, such as listing meta levels on list view, 2008. It would help a lot if CCP posted a page of bugs/errors/intended improvements. enough of this 20% of their time thing, switching gears is always painful, when your volcano exploded, productivity of the office workplace sky rocked, no I am not joking, not having meetings due to bosses being stuck in places, not having to switch gears constantly left workers empowered and they really produced a lot. When travel straightened out, you guessed, boom.

What I and hope others would like to see is a tab on the left side labeled "Issues we know about" or similar, not the known issues tab, but one that shows us that YOU know what WE think is wrong. Then post WHY you think it is an issue and let us help improve that dialogue. When people feel as if they are NOT heard, you get the building residual frustration that you are sensing here. I believe you are all very passionate about Eve, show us you recognize and appreciate our passion for Eve as well.

Thank you for reading this far,
AG

Cyrus Doul
E0 Corp
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:46:00 - [250]
 

Edited by: Cyrus Doul on 16/07/2010 22:47:26
CCP guy you aren't alone. We are just ****ed at you because for the last few months its everyone saying FIX THIS! and ccp comes out and says sure, in 18 months. We love this game and for the most part we still enjoy ccp. But when all we want right now is a playable game and you are focused on giving us more stuff which we perceive as more server strain that is bad in our eyes. You guys have said it yourself. The game is having issues on stuff like 30vs30 fights because the node isn't reinforced. some of the bigger roams I have been on have lead to fights this size before, If you want to reinforce the whole game please go head but that's not a solving issue either.

And for that the servers are running better then ever. That is all well and good. But your game is making lag on clients all the way from my two year old computer to brand new ones that people have. So sure maybe don't work on the server, have the server coding team work on the client or something.

I'm personally not going to unsub until I start getting black screens or lag trying to do my inventions. But you have got to be losing people hand over fist most likely. Either that or all you -6349553 account people are just a bunch of gasbags.


Two other things, Chribba must be sleeping as its page nine and hes still not here.

and

WTB bag of old cpus for cheap!

Ephemeral Waves
Silver Snake Enterprise
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:46:00 - [251]
 

Originally by: Bartillo Strongbradd
Edited by: Bartillo Strongbradd on 16/07/2010 21:45:52
Incarna is a AMAZING feature it will change the game, Have any of you guys seen the footage and such from fanfest 2008?
Youtube it.

You can open your own bar and design it however you want from stripper to minigames to lighting.
You can open a clothing store and design and sell clothes.
You can cut hair.

Theres a variety of jobs and skills you can do in stations.
You can make ISK by owning your own shop.

Also CCP talked about corp HQs having board rooms and such you can use for meetings.

Incarna adds a huge dynamic to eve.

Im tired of eve players whining that CCP has most of there eve devs on Incarna, well they are doing that cause its really going to change the game, I can see eve subs doubling with Incarna.
Most of my friends love the idea of eve a real sci fi sandbox, but cant connect, having a avatar and being able to own a shop or hang out in station bar with some friends would really bring them into the game easier.


You either don't actually play EvE or you're zulupark's alt.

Who gives a darn about board rooms? That's what TS or Vent is for. A bar? wtf? How does that help me avoid blackscreening in a 30vr30 fight? CoH added a 'club' where people coule go and hang out. You'll notice that is it is empty; always has been unless there is a planned event.

This is a game about spaceships and explosions. If we cared about bars and boardrooms we'd be playing 2nd life.

Anybody else notice all of these anonymous alts spouting how awesome wis is going to be all have hidden corp histories? Are they all dev alts trying to spin this thread?

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.07.16 22:46:00 - [252]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Quote:
CCP then stated that there would be a team dedicated to PI iteration, and that CCP would keep the players notified, bringing more transparency about this feature to the players. This seemed to please the CSM that the current PI is not the end product and that CCP seems willing to commit to follow through in PIís evolution.
(CCP/CSM minutes page 11)
Quote:
CCP responded that PI would most certainly be continued to be worked on, again mentioning that a special PI team would be dedicated to PI for at least the next two expansions.
(CCP/CSM minutes page 12)So which of the teams is working on PI for this cycle?

Is it the 'feature team' from the In Space Features group? Because that seems to be the only team that is not working on something else (fleets, incarna/dust, tools) or is from an unrelated discipline (art, missions).
The "Dust 514/EVE link" team is working on PI for this cycle.

Libin Herobi
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:51:00 - [253]
 

So you don't like the reactions you are getting.
Well that's no surprise.

But whatever is happening here: you (as in CCP) are responsible for it.
That does not mean you did something wrong and/or the players did everything right.
It just means you are responsible (like I am responsible for paying my bills, if something goes wrong people will come to me, even if I did everything right)

If you send an ambiguous message don't blame someone who understands it wrong.
If you try to stay "on message" about how awesome you think EVE will be, don't blame someone keeps asking what "the message" did not answer.

The players want to know WHAT will be done, WHICH issues are the next on the list to be fixed, HOW the CSM can make a difference (we know you listen to them, but that's not the same), WHY lag from Dominion is still here.
You didn't answer that with your blog and that is fine, since it is entirely your decision after all.

But by doing so you also decided not to answer those questions.
That is the part where your responsibility comes into play.
You chose to talk about the things you wanted to say instead of talking about the things the players wanted to hear.

Some players are frustrated, some are bored, some are just angry.
You cannot simply fix that by telling them about how great a time you have by writing "MMO history".
That's like saying I'm cancelling my account because I move to the northpole and you are to be happy about that.

Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:51:00 - [254]
 

Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 16/07/2010 22:51:42
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Quote:
CCP then stated that there would be a team dedicated to PI iteration, and that CCP would keep the players notified, bringing more transparency about this feature to the players. This seemed to please the CSM that the current PI is not the end product and that CCP seems willing to commit to follow through in PIís evolution.
(CCP/CSM minutes page 11)
Quote:
CCP responded that PI would most certainly be continued to be worked on, again mentioning that a special PI team would be dedicated to PI for at least the next two expansions.
(CCP/CSM minutes page 12)So which of the teams is working on PI for this cycle?

Is it the 'feature team' from the In Space Features group? Because that seems to be the only team that is not working on something else (fleets, incarna/dust, tools) or is from an unrelated discipline (art, missions).
The "Dust 514/EVE link" team is working on PI for this cycle.


Thanks for your reply :)

Does that mean PI will not see any functional upgrades in its gameplay? A link to a game running for a different platform would be mostly back-end technical stuff I imagine?

Ephemeral Waves
Silver Snake Enterprise
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:51:00 - [255]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: FlightGlobal
The game has, even by CCP's admission, become less stable over the last 9-14 months.
No, in general that is not true.

[...]

EVE is now, from a technical standpoint, in a better state than it has ever been.

There are specific issues in fleet fights, and we are actively working on resolving those issues (see one of my earlier reply in this thread), but EVE is generally healthy from a technical standpoint.


How can you honestly claim that the game is in better shape now than it was pre-dominion? We could have 500vrs500 fights a year ago without any significant lag. Today you get lag with 30 people jumping into an empty system. You're delusional.



Mira O'karr
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:52:00 - [256]
 

Edited by: Mira O''karr on 16/07/2010 22:55:44
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Quote:
CCP then stated that there would be a team dedicated to PI iteration, and that CCP would keep the players notified, bringing more transparency about this feature to the players. This seemed to please the CSM that the current PI is not the end product and that CCP seems willing to commit to follow through in PIís evolution.
(CCP/CSM minutes page 11)
Quote:
CCP responded that PI would most certainly be continued to be worked on, again mentioning that a special PI team would be dedicated to PI for at least the next two expansions.
(CCP/CSM minutes page 12)So which of the teams is working on PI for this cycle?

Is it the 'feature team' from the In Space Features group? Because that seems to be the only team that is not working on something else (fleets, incarna/dust, tools) or is from an unrelated discipline (art, missions).
The "Dust 514/EVE link" team is working on PI for this cycle.



ggnnnnnnn
who cares about PI. it is as annoying as pos'es. probably more so.
why should i have any faith in a team working on PI when pos interaction is and has been dire for years.

you all claim to play your own game but i dont think you do.

here is a challenge. go out and set up two large pos for reaction chains in low sec. do it please and tell me that every thing is fine and dandy with it.


edit: my bad, i just realised that the team is probably working on the shooter integration and not on acctually improving PI :(
oh well. Rolling Eyes

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:53:00 - [257]
 

First of all, thank you CCP Zulu for the illuminating dev-blog.

I hope everyone reading and contributing to this thread recognizes what an opportunity they have been given. CCP has just told you exactly what their resource allocations are (something not too many other companies would do), and given you a forum to discuss and debate them. I personally hope this is the first of many such opportunities.

So let's all activate our X-Large Neutron Courtesy Injectors and make the case for why their allocations should be reconsidered.

For example:

Originally by: CCP Explorer
EVE is now, from a technical standpoint, in a better state than it has ever been.

There are specific issues in fleet fights, and we are actively working on resolving those issues (see one of my earlier reply in this thread), but EVE is generally healthy from a technical standpoint.

I am happy to accept this statement as true, but the problem is that it is measuring the excellence of the code that generates the EVE experience, not the excellence of the experience itself -- and it is the latter metric that the players care about. While these measures of excellence are related, they are not identical. Both deserve consideration.

I have blogged about this very point, and others have made similar (and more eloquent) comments in this thread.

If, when my time on the CSM is over, I can honestly say that CCP really "gets" the real value of considering and addressing the perceived concerns of the players, I will consider the time and effort well spent.

PS: Earlier in the thread, CCP Warlock was teased about going to MIT, and was the target about some borderline ad-hominem comments. Let me state for the record that her lunchtime presentation on MMO Scaling Issues was one of the highlights of the summit for me, so much so that I publicly forgave her for her horrible taste in universities. She knows her stuff, and her upcoming (nudge.. nudge..) dev-blog will be very interesting reading.

Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:54:00 - [258]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Ranger 1
They have agreed about the black screen in a large fleet fight issue, and have lined out the steps taken... which are both logical and acceptable.

You will, in fact, be very hard pressed to find many people that will claim there are any other major bugs in game that are interfering with their game play.

You will find plenty that have their pet balancing issue, or who are on their soap box about how this aspect of the game or the other needs to be fleshed out more (FW in particular). However, these are not bugs that interfer in game play.

For the vast majority of EVE players, including many that live in 0.0 and often engage in small to medium size combat daily, there are no game breaking issues they have to deal with. We enjoy smooth gameplay 99% of the time and are more than pleased with that.
Thank you Ranger 1, I was feeling quite lonely in this thread. Very Happy


Well, I certainly do not envy your predicament right now. But I do hope you realise that this is a necessary thing for you, and CCP as a whole, to do when you develop an immersion product.

Which brings me to your earlier statements about the technical excellence of EVE. I do hope you realise that there is a substantial disconnect between the metrics you, as a technical representative of CCP, use to establishing excellence for EVE, and the metrics the players use to establish excellence for 'their' game.

It is this disconnect that is the barrier to establishing meaningful communication with the players/customers.

Basically it is CCP saying that, according to your metrics, you are achieving excellence in EVE. While the players/customers are trying to explain that, according to their metrics, you are most certainly not. The dichotomy of the conceptual taxonomy that currently exists in the communication between the CSM and the players with CCP, when it comes to EVE, is what is making the current exercise so frustrating, for both sides of the discussion I might add.

For meaningful communication to be established a shared vocabulary needs to be used. Since the impetus for communication in this case lies with CCP, i.e., you, that means abandoning the defensive posture ("What are you talking about? By our standards, we are achieving excellence!") and embracing language of your customers, i.e., us, and explain in the latter vernacular where you stand. Given the information already released, I can see how that would mean admissions on CCP's part, i.e., your part, that you would rather avoid. Nevertheless, for meaningful communication to be established/maintained, the drawbridge has to come down. If not, this will remain a shouting match across a moat CCP basically dug itself, and this will not benefit either side.

Because, whether you now believe it or not, the communication failure is not the result of malice on the consumer part, and neither do I truly believe it is caused by malice on CCP's part. Predominantly. both sides of the debate wish the best for EVE, as both sides share a passion for the game, and its future. But as long as both sides keep shouting from afar, none of that passion can be utilised fully, and we, as customers, can't fill in the moat for you.

You have created an immersion product, sustainability of an immersion product, even in the medium term, rests on proper communication. Failure of maintaining proper communication invalidates the immersion, and the product will digress into a commodity product. If this is what CCP wants to do with EVE, then feel free to do so. It is your product after all. But I do hope you realise that this is what you are doing, what the consequences of that would be, and realise what opportunities you would be wasting.

Hussain
Gallente
Azure Horizon Federate Militia
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:54:00 - [259]
 

About Incarna I have on thing to say:

I had enough of glorified chat rooms back on 2003 while playing Earth & Beyond.

Actually I left E&B to play EVE.

Now you guys want to make EVE become E&B2, which would be nice if 10% or so of your resources was into that this way is just stupid.




BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:54:00 - [260]
 

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel

Thanks to CCP Explorer
It takes a very thick skin to read and reply to these forums, as many people fire off rage and anger, without looking back as what they said. These same people get angry at poor wording choices made by CCP employees, yet never examine their own. Let me say I admire your patience and courage to post here, thank you.


Just felt like quoting for truth. At the same time I hope that the fact that people are angry does not get glossed over and ignored just because they have an ignorant way of displaying it. The feeling is there and they are paying customers. I feel that the minority of players are raging about the problems on these forums, but at the same time I feel that the majority of players see these same things as problems, they are just much more reserved, mature, and patient than the rest. Some of them have posted here with some level headed discussion on the current state of Eve and the current Dev Blog, I hope more people than Explorer are reading this.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:56:00 - [261]
 

Edited by: Apollo Gabriel on 16/07/2010 23:02:11
Quote:
The "Dust 514/EVE link" team is working on PI for this cycle.

CCP Explorer thank you, this type of feedback is EXACTLY what is helpful. We do not know the implied details, your comments improve our understanding.

Originally by: Bartillo Strongbradd

You either don't actually play EvE or you're zulupark's alt.

Who gives a darn about board rooms? That's what TS or Vent is for. A bar? wtf? How does that help me avoid blackscreening in a 30vr30 fight? CoH added a 'club' where people coule go and hang out. You'll notice that is it is empty; always has been unless there is a planned event.

This is a game about spaceships and explosions. If we cared about bars and boardrooms we'd be playing 2nd life.

Anybody else notice all of these anonymous alts spouting how awesome wis is going to be all have hidden corp histories? Are they all dev alts trying to spin this thread?


He never insulted you, why must you turn negative? If you don't like those features, then state so in a constructive manner. I am only 18 months old, but I think WIS/Incarna will add a visceral component many people find missing in Eve.

As a noob it would be a lot more fun interacting with a station than kill rat, ok dock, now kill rat, ok dock, not fly one system, oops you forgot the letter, fly back, oops had to log off, mission expired, hey I lost standings?

Eve could be 100% perfect and it would still suffer attrition. If the game base is to grow, it must bring in new players. You may be perfectly happy without Incarna/WIS, but that is not necessarily the overall demographic of mmo players. I trust that CCP has done some types of market studies, or at least a broad anecdotal survey of players to know that avatars are good for games. I personally know several people how quit partially due to not having a "presence" within the game. I admit I do not know if they are representative of the gaming community at large, but they are an example of lost customers.

Cheers
AG
To all, please keep your posts constructive.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.07.16 22:57:00 - [262]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
So which of the teams is working on PI for this cycle?

Is it the 'feature team' from the In Space Features group? Because that seems to be the only team that is not working on something else (fleets, incarna/dust, tools) or is from an unrelated discipline (art, missions).
The "Dust 514/EVE link" team is working on PI for this cycle.
Thanks for your reply :)

Does that mean PI will not see any functional upgrades in its gameplay? A link to a game running for a different platform would be mostly back-end technical stuff I imagine?
I can't make "backlog inclusion" promises since technology is my area of expertise, but they should have bandwidth for a lot of things.

Genya Arikaido
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:57:00 - [263]
 

Edited by: Genya Arikaido on 16/07/2010 22:58:37
Originally by: Bartillo Strongbradd
Incarna is a AMAZING feature it will change the game, Have any of you guys seen the footage and such from fanfest 2008?


Have any of you guys seen the footage and such from fanfest 2008?
footage and such from fanfest 2008...
fanfest 2008...
2008

...and that's just the most recent and substantial information we've received about Abulation/WiS/Incarna. Rolling Eyes

(a 2-3 minute trailer that shows nothing from fanfest 2009, except the newest name for it, doesn't count.)

Konoch
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:58:00 - [264]
 

After reading the dev blog and the players reaction I think most are annoyed by the lack of time being spent on fleet lag.

For a lot of us that is a HUGE problem. Especially right now. Even though the war is winding down pretty much and the SC has been beaten back. This particular conflict will flare up again at some point and we'll be at it all over again. As a player training a pair of capitals on two seperate accounts (one Moros one Phoenix) This issue is a significant concern. These ships are not small isk investments 2.5 Bill with about 4-800 mill in fittings combined. If i lose them i wanna lose them in a battle. I don't want to lose them due to lag. I really hope progress is made but this doesnt give people like me as much hope of that.

Over the long term Incarna is one of those things that could turn out to be very important. I think nearly every player would agree that its something that shouldn't be a priority with some of the big problems we've had lately. However all evidence points to December being the launching ground for Incarna. In which case they'll finally be able to turn their attention back to what the players want.

Still I hope you allow a slightly more free alocation of time when it comes to how people work. I understand deadlines have to be made but, there are some things the playerbase has been demanding for so long its kinda sick.

Takseen
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:59:00 - [265]
 

Interesting, and a wee bit alarming how much of the Eve development team has been siphoned off to work on Incarna and other non Spaceship-Eve projects. I mean I'm just a casual player who doesn't even pvp so I'm getting this info just from the forums. But big fleet pvp is pretty much Eve's big big feature. It ties into almost everything else. PI builds the POSes that are supposed to get blown up, miners produce the minerals to rebuild the Titans that asplode, traders ship out the war materials needed in 0.0 and so on. And if fleet fights have been broken for this long, and will stay broken for the foreseeable future, then people won't care about any cool features that Dust or Incarna will (maybe) have in 18 months.

Its a hierarchy of needs thing. People don't care about new features that aren't even about spaceships when the game they actually signed up to play isn't working properly. Atleast that's the impression I'm getting.


Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2010.07.16 23:00:00 - [266]
 

Edited by: Meissa Anunthiel on 16/07/2010 23:01:32
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: FlightGlobal
The game has, even by CCP's admission, become less stable over the last 9-14 months.
No, in general that is not true.

The CSM members reading this thread will remember my comments at the meeting the CSM had with CCP Oveur (not detailed in the CSM meeting minutes) and my followup in the lag meeting CCP Atlas and I had with the CSM the day after (this is clearly detailed in the CSM meeting minutes). EVE is now, from a technical standpoint, in a better state than it has ever been.

There are specific issues in fleet fights, and we are actively working on resolving those issues (see one of my earlier reply in this thread), but EVE is generally healthy from a technical standpoint.

Bashing CCP is all fine when they deserve it, but not so much when they do right...
If we're discussing code quality, and NOT user experience, which is another thing...

So I'm backing up CCP Explorer's words here. From everything we were given to see, including during the discussion with CCP Oveur, Eve is getting better and better from a technical standpoint. Also, after discussing technical issues/details with different devs over time (not just this CSM's), I can't fault them for their approach or performance in that regard.

As far as lag in fleet fights goes, we had 2 presentations pertaining to it (one that was scheduled, one that CCP Warlock kindly agreed to give us during lunch), and after having had quite a few conversations with them, it is my perception that the people working on solving this turd of an issue are extremely competent and knowledgeable. So it's not like they put 3 dudes just out of college working on fixing it, it's just that it's a complicated issue but the people working on it are extremely clever people working at it from what I consider to be a right way.

Ephemeral Waves
Silver Snake Enterprise
Posted - 2010.07.16 23:01:00 - [267]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Ban Doga
Originally by: Ranger 1
We enjoy smooth gameplay 99% of the time and are more than pleased with that.

Who is we and what are they more than pleased about.

You can keep claiming that EVE is tottering on the brink of total happiness all you wish, but from now on either back it up with facts or keep it to yourself.


Come to Providence BAN, we will take a tour of 0.0 and Empire. I'll find you a few 100 thousand who will say the same if you have the time (and the intestinal fortitude) to back up your hysterical opinion.

Anytime. Wink


You'd have to undock before you could give anybody a tour.

Mira O'karr
Posted - 2010.07.16 23:02:00 - [268]
 

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Quote:
The "Dust 514/EVE link" team is working on PI for this cycle.

CCP Explorer thank you, this type of feedback is EXACTLY what is helpful. We do not know the implied details, your comments improve our understanding.

Originally by: Bartillo Strongbradd

You either don't actually play EvE or you're zulupark's alt.

Who gives a darn about board rooms? That's what TS or Vent is for. A bar? wtf? How does that help me avoid blackscreening in a 30vr30 fight? CoH added a 'club' where people coule go and hang out. You'll notice that is it is empty; always has been unless there is a planned event.

This is a game about spaceships and explosions. If we cared about bars and boardrooms we'd be playing 2nd life.

Anybody else notice all of these anonymous alts spouting how awesome wis is going to be all have hidden corp histories? Are they all dev alts trying to spin this thread?


He never insulted you, why must you turn negative? If you don't like those features, then state so in a constructive manner. I am only 18 months old, but I think WIS/Incarna will add a visceral component many people find missing in Eve.

As a noob it would be a lot more fun interacting with a station than kill rat, ok dock, now kill rat, ok dock, not fly one system, oops you forgot the letter, fly back, oops had to log off, mission expired, hey I lost standings?

To all, please keep your posts constructive.


hahaha oh wow.

you do understand that many of us have been here far longer than 18 months and we are currently at the point that the straw has finaly broken the camels back.

we have seen arbitary nerfs and **** server performance for years. then we get the patch of awesomeness and can suddenly have good fights with up to 1000 people in system. then comes some other **** patch and breaks that and ccp seems unable to find out how they broke it.

we want the performance back. now! we dont even give a damn about the annoying UI and the many bugs. we just want back what we were allowed to taste for a few months just to have it yanked from our hands with a big fat "neener neener you dont know it but servers are better than ever" to add insult to injury.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.07.16 23:04:00 - [269]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: CCP Explorer
EVE is now, from a technical standpoint, in a better state than it has ever been.

There are specific issues in fleet fights, and we are actively working on resolving those issues (see one of my earlier reply in this thread), but EVE is generally healthy from a technical standpoint.
I am happy to accept this statement as true, but the problem is that it is measuring the excellence of the code that generates the EVE experience, not the excellence of the experience itself -- and it is the latter metric that the players care about. While these measures of excellence are related, they are not identical. Both deserve consideration.
Quite true. In return I hope you understand that as a technical person then my focus is on the former metric.

Rimor Terra
Ministry of Rawr
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2010.07.16 23:04:00 - [270]
 

I think I'm seeing a trend here. Between the CSM mins, dev blogs and forum posts, the theme I see is:

Players: "We want you to work on making Eve less buggy. Stop with Dust and Incarna (or stop working so hard at it)."

CCP: "We are working on Eve, see, we have all of these people working on Dust and Incarna!"

I also would like to know what CCP's definition of Excellence is, because the summit minutes and this dev blog make it seem like they think Eve is an excellent product.

I love this game, but one way I would describe it would not be excellent.


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