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Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.16 21:58:00 - [211]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 16/07/2010 21:59:33
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 16/07/2010 18:30:12
It seems to me:

Incarna (9 teams)
Dust (1 team)
Core (3 teams):
Eve Online (6 teams):
- Fleet Lag/Automation Testing
- Fleet Lag/Cowboy Coders
- PVE Feature Team
- Mission Design Team
- Art Team
- Evegate




You are counting 2 times the same PVE team.


Incarna (9 teams)
Dust (1 team)
Core (3 teams):
- feature team (not necessarly PVE)
- mission team
- art team
EVE gate (1 team) (and it is an add on, even if useful, not EVE)
Eve Online (4 teams):
- Fleet Lag/Automation Testing
- core infrastructure team
- making tools and reporting mechanism for the customer service
- fleet Lag/Cowboy Coders

As I see it we have 7 teams working on EVE core business, for a total of about 27 developers. Not much on a 123 man team.

In reality, judging by the work done, the Mission team seem to be made by 2 people and one of them is on a extended maternal/paternal leave. To add none of them ever do mission in game or care for the background story (yes, I am still angry for the Gallente Epic arch: Go and slaughter the refugees from our allied nation Rolling Eyes).

I see a distinct lack of a fact finding team. So what is CCP using to balance the in game features?

I have noticed the curious conviction on CCP part (CSM report) that the mineral value reduction is caused by "panic selling".
What numbers in mineral production and use they have used before reducing the insurance value and the mission loot?
They really think that the reduction in price for the minerals is a temporary thing?

And honestly, after Incarna would hit the game, how many teams will be needed to debug it in the following years?

Sorry, CCP, but you have burned a lot of goodwill in the last years. Half of the features have a "half finished, never to be touched again" feeling that is hard to shallow.






Korlimak
Posted - 2010.07.16 21:58:00 - [212]
 

omg i just ****ed in my pants at the possibility of ground warfare fps style merging with eve mmo. I REALLY F-IN HOPE THAT THE GROUND FPS IS PERSISTENT and affects the eve part of the mmo.

all these ideas are so sexy, i just wana ass-pound them.


CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.07.16 21:59:00 - [213]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Just an FYI, but those "fleet fight" issues are being encountered right down to "fleets" of 20 or so. Maybe no one has mentioned this to you or something, but there you go.
From page 15: "CCP has even seen problems with some low number fleet fights as they are not on dedicated nodes and often times fleet fights break out on nodes that are already loaded."

Charles Javeroux
Gallente
INTERSTELLAR CREDIT
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:00:00 - [214]
 

The Dev blog was a good intel. Thank you CCP for sharing all that. Also, the minority do not speak for the majority. Incarna is indeed a most welcome feature to EVE.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:00:00 - [215]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: FlightGlobal
The game has, even by CCP's admission, become less stable over the last 9-14 months.
No, in general that is not true.

The CSM members reading this thread will remember my comments at the meeting the CSM had with CCP Oveur (not detailed in the CSM meeting minutes) and my followup in the lag meeting CCP Atlas and I had with the CSM the day after (this is clearly detailed in the CSM meeting minutes). EVE is now, from a technical standpoint, in a better state than it has ever been.

There are specific issues in fleet fights, and we are actively working on resolving those issues (see one of my earlier reply in this thread), but EVE is generally healthy from a technical standpoint.


Just an FYI, but those "fleet fight" issues are being encountered right down to "fleets" of 20 or so. Maybe no one has mentioned this to you or something, but there you go.

So anyway now you know: Whilst EVE may well be "technically" in a far better state than ever, the actual gameplay is in a far worse state than it's been for a long long time.

PS I realise that you have to trot out the party line on this, but seriously, your saying this guff again was a :facepalm:. It's like we're speaking a different language here. We're telling you that the house is on fire and you're proudly announcing that the building has better heating facilities than any other MMO out there.



I'm sorry Malcanis, but I think you've been reading your own posts too often.

They have agreed about the black screen in a large fleet fight issue, and have lined out the steps taken... which are both logical and acceptable.

You will, in fact, be very hard pressed to find many people that will claim there are any other major bugs in game that are interfering with their game play.

You will find plenty that have their pet balancing issue, or who are on their soap box about how this aspect of the game or the other needs to be fleshed out more (FW in particular). However, these are not bugs that interfer in game play.

For the vast majority of EVE players, including many that live in 0.0 and often engage in small to medium size combat daily, there are no game breaking issues they have to deal with. We enjoy smooth gameplay 99% of the time and are more than pleased with that.

You can keep claiming that EVE is tottering on the brink of total destruction all you wish, but from now on either back it up with facts or keep it to yourself.

Pizi Sharpshooter
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:02:00 - [216]
 

so there is no team workin on PI as promissed ??
im disapointed =(

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:03:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
So, from this, CCP runs 18 dev teams. Of those, full half are committed to Incarna, and seven of those nine are stolen from "other projects". If those "other projects" are Eve, then your comment that "the resource cost from Eve is very limited" is a hilarious lie. If that refers to WoD/Dust/some other unspecified future project, then I have to assume that all the teams for all of CCP's MMOs are in the count of 18, and given that exactly zero are working on any other projects, then I can't help but conclude that they're all borderline vapourware. The first one would **** me off immensely, because Incarna is in no way 3x as important as the rest of Eve combined, not even in terms of short-run dev cycle planning. The second wouldn't be as bad for me personally, but I suspect that the gaming press might be interested to know that you have a grand total of nobody working on your next two big, flashy publicly announced titles.
I deeply apologise, but your assumptions and your conclusions are all wrong.


You don't need to apologize for disagreeing - people disagree with me all the time. Truth be told, I make it pretty easy for them. What would be helpful, however, is an explanation. Here's the original text I refer to:

Originally by: CCP Zulupark
As of August 17th, there will be about nine teams working on Incarna. Of those, seven are on loan from other projects


I only see two ways to interpret this. One, "other projects" refers to bits of Eve - making POSes functional, stopping my windows from collapsing every time I make a contract, letting my mail load in less than 5 minutes, and the like. If this is the case, then protestations about Incarna having a minimal effect on Eve development are transparently false, since that would seemingly be somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 of the devs who work on actual Eve stuff.

Two, "other projects" refers to things that aren't Eve, such as WoD, Dust, or something we haven't seen yet. In this case, I can't complain about resources being taken off Eve(though I can marvel somewhat at just how small the actual Eve team is). I have to ask a followup question on exactly which of the assorted CCP staff fall into the purview of this dev blog, however. If it includes the teams on the other games...well, where are they? If it doesn't include the teams off the other games, then my bit about vapourware is admittedly wrong, but we're again left with the conclusion that Eve proper only has 11 permanent teams, which seems low, and that you've been forced to steal several dozen devs off other games entirely for an expansion which by all accounts doesn't go live for most of a year yet. Not to mention that this continues to raise the question of why you stole them for Incarna instead of stealing them for fixing Eve, which most of us will agree to be a higher priority.

Am I missing some third option here? Did Blizzard or SOE loan you four dozen devs? Did you accidentally hire 50 fashion designers who refuse to work on spaceships? CCP isn't such a big company that seven teams can go missing, they have to have been taken from somewhere. I posit to you that a) the places they came from might miss them, and b) if you have to steal them, there are better places to put them. Now, I'll admit that I'm arguing from ignorance here - maybe this strategy has worked well for CCP in the past. Maybe there's some pressing but non-obvious reason why this needs to happen. But it looks to me like you're spending about 4x as much dev time as all of Eve 1.0 took, on a feature set that is utterly non-compelling, and you're spreading your company very thin somewhere in the process. That doesn't inspire confidence.

Jordan Musgrat
Convergent
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:03:00 - [218]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
So, from this, CCP runs 18 dev teams. Of those, full half are committed to Incarna, and seven of those nine are stolen from "other projects". If those "other projects" are Eve, then your comment that "the resource cost from Eve is very limited" is a hilarious lie. If that refers to WoD/Dust/some other unspecified future project, then I have to assume that all the teams for all of CCP's MMOs are in the count of 18, and given that exactly zero are working on any other projects, then I can't help but conclude that they're all borderline vapourware. The first one would **** me off immensely, because Incarna is in no way 3x as important as the rest of Eve combined, not even in terms of short-run dev cycle planning. The second wouldn't be as bad for me personally, but I suspect that the gaming press might be interested to know that you have a grand total of nobody working on your next two big, flashy publicly announced titles.
I deeply apologise, but your assumptions and your conclusions are all wrong.


Whether he's wrong or not, that's the general consensus of your hardcore playerbase, and you cannot deny that our perception of your dedication to EvE is in a free-fall right now. And that is your fault. You alone project your image, and you alone chose to post a dev blog more or less detailing how few people work on our EvE. There are 2 areas where you could use substantial improvement. one is with fleet lag, which I do recognize takes a large chunk of time and patience, but also the API system. As mentioned before, if you allowed people to play around with things like the corp windows, or even moreso the UI, the playerbase would come up with incredible things, and you wouldn't have to spend time fixing them. We would do it for you.

As Woody says, it's time to man up or nut up, and hopefully you're going to man up and realize that you sadly lack in a few areas. I don't even blame you for putting so many people on Incarna, because it does have epic potential. But that is years away before completion. Do you expect us to play this game happily, in its current state, before you have the time to fix it?

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.07.16 22:03:00 - [219]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
They have agreed about the black screen in a large fleet fight issue, and have lined out the steps taken... which are both logical and acceptable.

You will, in fact, be very hard pressed to find many people that will claim there are any other major bugs in game that are interfering with their game play.

You will find plenty that have their pet balancing issue, or who are on their soap box about how this aspect of the game or the other needs to be fleshed out more (FW in particular). However, these are not bugs that interfer in game play.

For the vast majority of EVE players, including many that live in 0.0 and often engage in small to medium size combat daily, there are no game breaking issues they have to deal with. We enjoy smooth gameplay 99% of the time and are more than pleased with that.
Thank you Ranger 1, I was feeling quite lonely in this thread. Very Happy

Ban Doga
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:04:00 - [220]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
We enjoy smooth gameplay 99% of the time and are more than pleased with that.

Who is we and what are they more than pleased about.

You can keep claiming that EVE is tottering on the brink of total happiness all you wish, but from now on either back it up with facts or keep it to yourself.

moola
Band Of Frogs
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:05:00 - [221]
 

What is the point of making Dust 54321 when they are making Incarna? or vise versa.

What the player base knows about Incarna is, maybe shops, maybe gambling, looking at a map in a meeting room. There will be no nude dancers because of the silly age thing for games, this might effect gambling too. The footage of the ship docked has been axed as far i know (was the best bit about WiS).

There is a sticky in the Missions forums section asking for suggestions for Incarna missions, WTF if its got anything todo with shooting WHY make Dust 54321, so it will boil down to, talk to NPC A, run aboot abit and talk to NPC B, or pick up and deliver from NPC A,B,C etc..

Leak some info about Incarna to the eve player base NOT the gaming press ffs, let us see WHY you are sooo focused on it.

Wonder how many of the staff working on Incarna will then move to working on WoD?

One game, One universe, Two gaming platforms, WTF?

Rant off.



iP0D
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:05:00 - [222]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: iP0D
Also, please, do not try these little subterfuges with references to stuff not in the minutes, insinuating that CSM is somehow privvy to something special but which they have not shared or do not want to share. You're on an internet forum here :P
Pages 13-15, it's all there.


You're getting dangerously close to CCP Quell practices there from that company hired to track social networking patterns among customers there.

Stop the selective quoting, you do realise that people these days use external tools to follow the discussions back and forth with full references, right?

You are just insisting on missing the point here. Your post made an insinuation, a suggestion of subterfuge. Same as Zulu's blog did in its closing. But where he looks to have made a honest statement of confusion coming forth from the typical flawed internal communication, you're just seemingly trying to find angles to spin.

Understand the reference of internet forum for a moment. It will become quite clear.

ChrisIsherwood
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:06:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: Malcanis

Good Stuff
...
There is, to be fair to CCP, a LOT of interest in Incarna, and from what I read on other sites, not having an avatar is kind of a deal breaker for a lot of people. It's not about functionality, it's about attachment. Even if their guy can't do anything outside his ship, they still want to see him.

I think the real issue here is CCP trying to do too many things at once with EVE. Incarna and Dust at the same time, plus World Of Darkness, plus the requirement to maintain the core game and income source is just too many priority projects for a small company.



Originally by: Ephemeral Waves

Name one possible - useful - thing that incarna will add to blowing up spaceships in space.


If Incarna generated significant subscriber growth/retention, then the additional CCP resources would greatly benefit non-RP PVP customers who never walked in a station. If DUST generates a profit, gets CCP better known, and gets some DUST players to try EVE, then it would benefit EVE customers who don't own a console. CCP may overextend themselves, but I do not see how one can say either has no chance to succeed.


Originally by: Ix Forres
Unpleaseant reality

More API efforts would be greatly appreciated. Enabling player-created software is extremely leveraged where your efforts are greatly magnified by hundreds of others.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:07:00 - [224]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1

For the vast majority of EVE players, including many that live in 0.0 and often engage in small to medium size combat daily, there are no game breaking issues they have to deal with. We enjoy smooth gameplay 99% of the time and are more than pleased with that.



This is me. Overwhelmingly, my life is good these days but the biggest gangs I get in are 10-15 people.


Originally by: Ranger 1

You will find plenty that have their pet balancing issue, or who are on their soap box about how this aspect of the game or the other needs to be fleshed out more (FW in particular). However, these are not bugs that interfer in game play.



Its true - I think the reason Faction Warfare is being trotted out so much is because it was released recently, is pretty buggy/exploitable, is a PVP feature, and was effectively told to **** off for the next 2 years.

-Liang

Amarr 4EVAR
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:07:00 - [225]
 

Edited by: Amarr 4EVAR on 16/07/2010 22:14:11
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Malcanis
Just an FYI, but those "fleet fight" issues are being encountered right down to "fleets" of 20 or so. Maybe no one has mentioned this to you or something, but there you go.
From page 15: "CCP has even seen problems with some low number fleet fights as they are not on dedicated nodes and often times fleet fights break out on nodes that are already loaded."


My good CCP Explorer, if you are seeing problems with small fleets on undedicated nodes, these are my conclusions.

1. Your server (TQ) cannot support EVE. (Often, there is not enough advance warning to ask for a dedicated node.)

2. The core of eve requires much bugfixing and optimization. If the core of the game (internet spaceship battles on a grand scale) is nonfunctional, you should be dedicating the bulk of your dev teams to fixing existing gameplay, not running off about Incarna or DUST514.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:07:00 - [226]
 

Originally by: Ban Doga
Originally by: Ranger 1
We enjoy smooth gameplay 99% of the time and are more than pleased with that.

Who is we and what are they more than pleased about.

You can keep claiming that EVE is tottering on the brink of total happiness all you wish, but from now on either back it up with facts or keep it to yourself.


Come to Providence BAN, we will take a tour of 0.0 and Empire. I'll find you a few 100 thousand who will say the same if you have the time (and the intestinal fortitude) to back up your hysterical opinion.

Anytime. Wink

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:09:00 - [227]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
The CSM members reading this thread will remember my comments at the meeting the CSM had with CCP Oveur (not detailed in the CSM meeting minutes) and my followup in the lag meeting CCP Atlas and I had with the CSM the day after (this is clearly detailed in the CSM meeting minutes). EVE is now, from a technical standpoint, in a better state than it has ever been.

There are specific issues in fleet fights, and we are actively working on resolving those issues (see one of my earlier reply in this thread), but EVE is generally healthy from a technical standpoint.


And you will remember our response that widespread player perception based on game experience is that EVE lacks excellence (page 6, paragraph 5, June 2010 Summit Minutes). It doesn't matter how technically healthy a product is if player experiences are unfavorable. Customer opinions are formed on the basis of their interaction with your product, not the stuff you claim is happening under the hood that does not roll out in an experiential way to players.


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:11:00 - [228]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Malcanis
Just an FYI, but those "fleet fight" issues are being encountered right down to "fleets" of 20 or so. Maybe no one has mentioned this to you or something, but there you go.
From page 15: "CCP has even seen problems with some low number fleet fights as they are not on dedicated nodes and often times fleet fights break out on nodes that are already loaded."


Ah, so you are aware.

Might I respectfully inquire if, given this awareness, you are also aware why we might be the teensy-weensiest bit sceptical and also infuriated to be smugly informed that EVE is "technically" more stable than ever?

Really, I know you guys get a laugh out of trolling us - rockets are proof enough of that, don't think that we don't appreciate the joke, well played sir, etc. - but there should be some limits on the things that you say to wind us up.

Darth Vapour
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:12:00 - [229]
 

CCP's metrics don't really say anything as they are presented now:

Quote:
Memory usage on the server per user has decreased in the last 12 months


How much memory was added in that period compared to the growth in subscribers ? And if memory was added, was this done to all nodes, leading to lightly loaded nodes showing even less memory use per user ?

Quote:
CPU Per User on the server has remained constant for the last 6 months except for a short period in late January where it went up just a bit


Again, was there a hardware increase done here that was done system wide, meaning lightly loaded systems with no performance issues now use even less resourced per user ?

Quote:
Server log lines have been decreasing significantly since February, meaning fewer errors are being generated by the server


Does the Traffic Control message count as an error in these logs ?

Quote:
CCP also moitors the client health such as the memory and CPU usage at different stages in the game (login, char select, game exit)


It's good to hear that is monitored. But what are the results ?

Quote:
Crashes: Only 0.3–0.5% of sessions end in a dirty shutdown (client crash). It must be stated that disconnections and crashes are not the same thing.


The game rarely crashes on me, it much more often freezes up and I have to put it out of its misery. Or the socket gets closed, does this count as a dirty shutdown ?

Rok Qhang'Rawl
Joint Espionage and Defence Industries
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:15:00 - [230]
 

Edited by: Rok Qhang''Rawl on 16/07/2010 22:43:51
[whatever]

Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:16:00 - [231]
 

Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 16/07/2010 22:18:22
Quote:
CCP then stated that there would be a team dedicated to PI iteration, and that CCP would keep the players notified, bringing more transparency about this feature to the players. This seemed to please the CSM that the current PI is not the end product and that CCP seems willing to commit to follow through in PI’s evolution.
(CCP/CSM minutes page 11)

Quote:
CCP responded that PI would most certainly be continued to be worked on, again mentioning that a special PI team would be dedicated to PI for at least the next two expansions.
(CCP/CSM minutes page 12)

So which of the teams is working on PI for this cycle?

Is it the 'feature team' from the In Space Features group? Because that seems to be the only team that is not working on something else (fleets, incarna/dust, tools) or is from an unrelated discipline (art, missions).

And if they are, which team is working on the "as-yet undisclosed new feature" mentioned on page 5 of the minutes (13:30-14:30 Winter 2010)?

Originally by: Rok Qhang'Rawl
Bring back the third party mediator from 1st CSM perhaps if you want to know where the communication with CSM is breaking down.


Actually, mr. Ingthorsson was present - he's chaired every CSM/CCP meeting since the CSM started. He's a very good mediator.

Castratia Rawhide
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:17:00 - [232]
 

DO PEOPLE REALIZE THAT IF DUST AND INCARNA WEREN'T BEING DEVELOPED, CCP WOULDN'T HAVE HIRED MOST OF THE PEOPLE EVERYONE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING REDIRECTED FROM EVE TO DUST AND INCARNA? Very Happy

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:20:00 - [233]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
I'm sorry Malcanis, but I think you've been reading your own posts too often...

You can keep claiming that EVE is tottering on the brink of total destruction all you wish, but from now on either back it up with facts or keep it to yourself.



If you're going to disagree with me, that's fine. But please disagree with things I actually say.

EVE isn't "tottering on the brink" - there's still a great game there, with lots of fun stuff to do. But you sir seem to be in denial about the scope of the issues, and the implications of neglecting those issues for the timescales we're being given. And while I'm happy for you to deny up, down, right left and centre whatever you wish, the denial evident in the senior CCP posts that I'm seeing does concern me.

I'm happy to hear that your EVE playstyle isn't affected by the problems the rest of us are encountering. I look forward to hearing of your experiences when you try and do something more significant that running an anomaly, or ganking someone else running one. Since you implicitly define a "large fleet" as 20 or more, I infer that you never engage in any kind of sovereignty disputes.

Gerard Deneth
Caldari
Pavlov Labs GmBH
Independent Faction
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:21:00 - [234]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Gerard Deneth
No Offence, but one of the first things I learned in the single HR class I took on the way to getting my BBA:Accounting degree was that "claiming tens of defect fixes without being able to cite a single one" is something that quite handily erodes support and belief.
Sorry, I can't link you the defects nor the changelists since they are all in internal systems.


I'm not asking for links nor in-depth identification. What I'm saying is that there's a difference between "This car is awesome!" and "This car can do 0-60 in 1.5 seconds, has an inertial damper to prevent G forces from crushing you, and the exhaust outputs the sweet scent of lilacs". Both say roughly the same thing, but the latter is somewhat more verifiable. The former is some slick salesperson who isn't giving you support. An example from Freakanomics: The use of the phrase "Nice neighborhood" when describing a house is usually a polite term to mean "the house sucks, but the houses around it are better, so it helps make yours better". The same thing goes for "We fixed defects". It's not just unverifiable (which is going to be true for pretty much any back-end stuff you say) but it smacks of that kind of phrasing I quoted above.

To steal something from my audit course "It doesn't matter if you don't actually have a conflict of interest; if you look like you do then you're going to get treated as if you are". It's perception management, and sad to say CCP Explorer, there's enough jaded die-hards to not have much in the way of positive perception.

I'd like to see some kind of tl;dr commenting on at perhaps two or three defects, dumbed down so that someone in... hrm. Let's say marketing would understand (sales is a bit too grade schooler-ish). Stuff like "Bottlenecks in inventory ID management that reduce server demand" or "fixed code in mission assignment module to support future upgrades and improve ease of use". We can't obviously tell that you've done these, and frankly they smack of the kind of pointless crap jobs that simply need to be done, but mentioning that kind of thing can only help your perception.

That all being said, I support CCP and I look forward to Incarna and Dust (I've been seriously looking at getting a 360 to play Dust... that's pretty impressive considering my last console purchase was a Sega Genesis). These comments are meant to be honest suggestions and help, not flames.

Castratia Rawhide
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:22:00 - [235]
 

Edited by: Castratia Rawhide on 16/07/2010 22:24:17
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal

So which of the teams is working on PI for this cycle?



Quote:
Dust 514/EVE link

(1 team, approximately 7 developers)

We‘re also committed to producing and launching an MMOFPS hybrid. What we‘re doing is unheard of in the gaming industry, namely linking together a console FPS (MMOFPS) with a classic PC MMORPG. Let that sink in for a minute. CCP is the first company in the world to do something like this. First. Ever. The „resource cost" on the EVE side for that is a team continuing on development of the Planetary Interaction feature (the primary link between the two) for the next three releases, delivering immediate, meaningful value into EVE Online and making game development history while they‘re at it.

I like gothcha moments as much as anyone, but come on. Wink

Virtuozzo
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:24:00 - [236]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
I was feeling quite lonely in this thread. Very Happy


You are not alone in this thread. It may seem this way at first, but the absolute majority of people here are trying very hard to make clear points of why they care so much.

That shows that at the heart of it all, you, me, them, everybody cares. A great deal.

The only real bottleneck here is that it is seemingly very hard to see this common ground, and how it is at the heart of the succes of EVE, and at the heart of the current difference in value, real value, applied to the current and planned state of affairs.

CCP always aspired to be different in this industry and as a team, to base itself as a company on four simple values.

Fearless. United. Excellence. Transparency.

These are values which by default of product and market apply to anything CCP does, makes, ventures on, dreams of.


These values now seem out of synch with what lies at the heart of them. CCP has success for many reasons, but besides the obvious one of people working very hard, the most important one is a clear consistant long term strategy. Yet every product (existing and planned) venture stage signals a compromised state of that. I realise that this will not be seen as such by the top of CCP, but if you pause for a moment to stop, breathe and look around on communications, values, perceptions and the nature of what you're building or engaging to build, a few things will become clear.


Regardless of that, these values, these principles, any values and principles for the type of enterprise, venture and products are not simple statements to be benchmarked by mailing list or slammed down on a table with a fist for a stone tablet.

You have to live and breathe these values and principles. As an enterprise, as an immersive IP. Everybody has to live and breathe these.
If not, none of it is credible.


It should be clear now, that things are at a crossroad for both product and CCP, and while every road that can be taken is commercially viable, there are differences in what is viable and awesome and what stands the test of both economy and time, and a road which is viable but which simply leads to ever faster cycles of compensating for trends, patterns and metrics.


At such a crossroad, values and principles are tested, the strength of vision (which needs open eyes and a clear view on both the road and the horizon) and the strength of men (yeah, and women) is what validates these values and principles in such times. Without living up to that, it's just empty talk. Or, what players write off as "the marketing".


Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:24:00 - [237]
 

Communication of this sort is pretty awesome. 2 thumbs up to providing more clarification on who is doing what. More dev blogs = good, and the trend towards posting more in the last 6(?) months has been really nice. Would be great to see even more, but progress is progress.

It is kind of a bummer to see so many teams assigned to stuff other than Eve core. Apocrypha was a really really great expansion, and really showed what CCP can do when everyone is focused on one specific expansion. I look forward to seeing what else CCP will put out once they are able to refocus everyone for a single expansion again.

While its good to see CCP thinking of long term stuff and long term changes like Incarna (which will be great for the game imo), its been a bit tough for those focused on the here and now. After all, why does the long term picture matter to the individual if they quit before Incarna/Dust/etc become a reality?

While its tough to make major changes with all resources mostly allocated, it'd be really nice to see CCP going for some easier things that would improve the game. Rockets are one example, medium rails (and hybrids in general) are another. Taking the extra step w/ the skill points and removing learning skills now rather than with the next expansion might be another option as well. Its just a bad time in Eve right now as far as timing, with PI still needing a lot of work and Incarna/Dust still being a ways off... there hasn't been much to get excited about. Would be nice to see CCP taking more steps to still get some of the easier to address some of the easier to fix issues resolved.

Ban Doga
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:26:00 - [238]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Ban Doga
Originally by: Ranger 1
We enjoy smooth gameplay 99% of the time and are more than pleased with that.

Who is we and what are they more than pleased about.

You can keep claiming that EVE is tottering on the brink of total happiness all you wish, but from now on either back it up with facts or keep it to yourself.


Come to Providence BAN, we will take a tour of 0.0 and Empire. I'll find you a few 100 thousand who will say the same if you have the time (and the intestinal fortitude) to back up your hysterical opinion.

Anytime. Wink


Those are really great facts you have there to back up your statement.
Are those "few 100 thousand" 100,000, 200,000 or 300,000 people - I want to prepare accordingly and set aside enough time to talk to them all.

BTW, Ban is not an acronym. It is not writen with all capital letters.

Shaemell Buttleson
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:29:00 - [239]
 

Originally by: Bartillo Strongbradd
Edited by: Bartillo Strongbradd on 16/07/2010 21:45:52
Incarna is a AMAZING feature it will change the game, Have any of you guys seen the footage and such from fanfest 2008?
Youtube it.

You can open your own bar and design it however you want from stripper to minigames to lighting.
You can open a clothing store and design and sell clothes.
You can cut hair.

Theres a variety of jobs and skills you can do in stations.
You can make ISK by owning your own shop.

Also CCP talked about corp HQs having board rooms and such you can use for meetings.

Incarna adds a huge dynamic to eve.

Im tired of eve players whining that CCP has most of there eve devs on Incarna, well they are doing that cause its really going to change the game, I can see eve subs doubling with Incarna.
Most of my friends love the idea of eve a real sci fi sandbox, but cant connect, having a avatar and being able to own a shop or hang out in station bar with some friends would really bring them into the game easier.



When EVE first came out ppl like me were attracted to it because it was an interactive ELITE.
Most of the ppl I have dealings with ingame are there for this reason, the devs even created it because they loved ELITE and it's concept.

Incarna is nothing more than eyecandy for station jockeys. I'm not saying it's features wont amuse me a little but that's not what most of the ppl who first subscribed were interested in.

In short I'm worried that the focus isn't on the fantastic space sim EVE should be and time and effort is being spent on things that William Ralph Wright be developing.

Don't worry though you'll be able to have a drink or get your hair cut if the vacuum looks particularly scary!Rolling Eyes




Mira O'karr
Posted - 2010.07.16 22:30:00 - [240]
 

hey cool forum i had to log in again. nice. and thanks for the heads up that they are fixing it.

any way ... lets be clear.

incarna better be ****ing gold sparkling pot of gold rainbow. and i am not talking about hair dressing and tailoring. because hey, ccp, get this. this game is supposed to be dark and brutal.

if you try to groom (lol) this into some **** habbo hotel you might as well just tell me now so i can get the **** out.



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